Janya Raga Poll - Natabhairavi

tribute · Post by **tribute** » 22 Mar 2009, 19:58

tribute · Post by **tribute** » 22 Mar 2009, 20:09

My favorite is Amrithavahini(Shree Rama Padha)

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 22 Mar 2009, 20:47

Anandabhairavi ... then mukhAri, I'll consider it a naThabhairavi janya. I would consider pUrNaShadjam a khpriya janya, and I like it very much.

I know only brovavamma from mAnji-without-antara-gandhara, and still can't tell it apart from bhairavi. Bhairavi and mAnji probably come next. Or maybe I like sAramati a shade more.

I would put shuddha dhanyAsi for khpriya (or maybe tODi) too.

I don't know the other ragas, and don't like hindOLam and jayantashrI.

How come you haven't listed Abheri?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Mar 2009, 21:49

1. Ananda bhairavi.
2. mAnji
3. bhairavi
(spacing is very little between the three)

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 22 Mar 2009, 22:02

my personal all-time favourite is

bhairavi...

some more janyams of 20th melam..

hindOLavasantam, AbhEri (the original), navaratnavilAsam, gOpikA vasantam, nAgagAndhAri.

btw, ssp lists Ahiri, danyAsi, hindOLam under 20th melam....

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:14

The competing janaka in the asampUrNa mEla paddhati is itself a contender - nArIrItigauLa.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:46

Bharavi (as already indicated Rakshabettare but really there are many,many favourites)
Hindolam (Neerajakshi Kamakshi - only in Ati Vilamba kala though - else Samajavaragamana)

Darbari Kaanada is another favourite although I am struggling to recollect a CM composition of note. I think it is heavy enogh to warrant a few compositions

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 23 Mar 2009, 00:56

'I think the the swarajathi "Amba Kamakshi..." makes this debate moot

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:18

Anandabhairavi (although this has more of a 22 mela flavor than 21 mela flavor to me).
bhairavi,mAnji (mostly bhairavi, mAnji tags along as it is that close)
hindolavasantam (albeit reference is 1 song

)
saramati

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:29

How come Bhairavi is unquestionably assigned to Natabhairavi? ( syntax wise and melodic flavor/aesthetics wise ).

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:31

In bhairavi, D1 is much more dominant than D2.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:52

Arun, quite true, definitely in terms of quantity and to a large extent qualitatively as well. But there are such anchorlike and important prayogas of Bhairavi that uses D2 which elevates usage of D2 to much more than the occasional 'anya' swara status. That does pose a difficulty but I reaize that assigning to another MK will be even more questionable. Bhairavi makes a mockery of the parent-child assignment system.

On the flavor/aestetics wise, do you think Bhairavi belongs here or another group? To me, natabhairavi has much more 'gambIra' rasa than bhairavi though I suspect it is not due to D1 usage since D1 usually subdues such rasa.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 23 Mar 2009, 02:14

vk
Natabhairavi is a scale that sprung from the melakartha scheme. The rAga with real character with these notes is darbari kanada. Present day musicians engage in the futile struggle to create an "identity" for this raga where there is none

. I wouldn't waste valuable analytical time pondering natabhairavi.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2009, 07:21

I find bhairavi to have way more punch than natabhairavi (and some janyas of it like hindolavasantam, dIkshitar's AbhEri, mArgahindOLam, gopikavasantam). - but that is my preference. I generally find naTabhairavi to be very "toned down". It has charm but to me in a limited way. Bhairavi in tara stayi absolutely rocks.

But yes bhairavi (like many other ragas) cant be contained by the melakarta system.

Arun

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 24 Mar 2009, 04:14

bhairavi, mAnji, hindOLam, sAramathi, hindOLavasantham, naTabhairavi, abhEri

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 24 Mar 2009, 06:02

Uday_Shankar wrote:vk
Natabhairavi is a scale that sprung from the melakartha scheme. The rAga with real character with these notes is darbari kanada. Present day musicians engage in the futile struggle to create an "identity" for this raga where there is none . I wouldn't waste valuable analytical time pondering natabhairavi.

Or even nAgagAndhAri or bhuvanagAndhAri would do

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 24 Mar 2009, 12:20

Uday_Shankar wrote:vk
Present day musicians engage in the futile struggle to create an "identity" for this raga where there is none .

Part of the creative pursuits of composers is the struggle to create such identities. See how Thyagaraja did with Kharaharapriya and Harikambodhi. Wonder if many would have dismissed it as a futile exercise a couple hundred years ago.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 24 Mar 2009, 12:47

I somehow don't think Natabhairavi lacks the 'punch' or whatever. I would personally prefer Natabhairavi to Durbari Kanada. As to the Janyams, Bhairavi (by a long way), Manji (quite close), Saramathi, Amrithavahini (Shri Rama Padama by LGJ is a treat!) would be in my list..

Sathej

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 24 Mar 2009, 22:12

Of the janyas of Natabhairavi, I guess I like Bhairavi, Anandabhairavi, Hindolam and Saramathi best. If I were hard pressed to pick a favourite amongst these, I'd probably pick Anandabhairavi based on my current preferences. Marivere Gati and Kamalamba Samrakshatu are two of my favourite kritis in this raga. Bhairavi is a lovely ragam too, Yaaro Ivar Yaaro is one of my favourites. Hindolam was one of the ragas I listened to when I first listened to Carnatic, and Saramathi was of course used by Thyagaraja in Mokshamu Galada, a beautiful composition.

Natabhairavi itself has "two" memorable compositions - Sri Valli Devasenapathe (Natabhairavi) and Sri Neelotpala Nayike (Naari Reetigowla).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Mar 2009, 22:56

>Natabhairavi itself has "two" memorable compositions - Sri Valli Devasenapathe (Natabhairavi) and Sri Neelotpala Nayike (Naari Reetigowla).

Are these two compositions in the same raga? ( I understand they share the same melakartha number in two different systems ... )

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2009, 23:10

They are not. nariritigowla is not a straight scalar raga, and its structure has the twists of rItigowla.

SSP says: s r2 g2 m1 n2 d1 p n2 n2 s / s n2 d1 m1 g2 g2 r2 s. Key prayogas mentioned there are:
1. n d m
2. s g r g m
3. g m n d m n n s
4. s g g m
5. g m p m g r s
6. n` p` n` n` s

These are all very, very characteristic prayogas of the D2 ritigowla i.e. if we take d as d2. However the presence of d1 instead of d2 for nariritigowla can give a somewhat similar feel as natabhairavi and its other janyas.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Mar 2009, 02:10

Thanks Arun.

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 25 Mar 2009, 20:23

vasanthakokilam and arun, thanks for clarifying!

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 26 Mar 2009, 08:31

rajesh_rs wrote:vasanthakokilam and arun, thanks for clarifying!

For those of you who can understand Tamil, here's a nice explanation of Naari Reetigowla (see Arun's post above).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXX0ACsrRAc&NR=1

As an aside, other nice songs. A nice rendition of Marivere Gati Yevaramma by M Balamurali -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJctmmJIqv4

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Mar 2009, 21:20

That was indeed beautifully demonstrated by TMK - thanks rajesh for posting the link

Arun