Carnatic Cryptic Crossword Puzzle #3

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Apr 2009, 03:08

http://sunson.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/ ... -puzzle-3/

Enjoy!

Arun

Note: Since there is enough discussion/posts for each of these, I am continuing to create separate threads for these. Also, I will be going to Cleveland later next week and so answers as well as next puzzle may be a tad delayed.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Apr 2009, 11:11

10 A has nine letters. Is it 5 + 4 or 6 +3
But for this one I am don.... pretty cool clues

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 13 Apr 2009, 12:46

It should be 6+3...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 13 Apr 2009, 13:14

5 across is proving a little difficult - even though I have the first and third letters!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Apr 2009, 17:03

oops sorry! It should be 6-3

Arun

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 13 Apr 2009, 17:34

Have solved many of them; including 5 across; quite interesting.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Apr 2009, 22:19

arunk wrote:oops sorry! It should be 6-3

Arun

Calling a 6 as 5 is still ok

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Apr 2009, 22:22

vijay wrote:5 across is proving a little difficult - even though I have the first and third letters!

being an expert concert reviewer I don't think you should stumble and fall on this one

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 13 Apr 2009, 22:31

Me being a right hander , I am able to solve all the right side of crossword . Will sleep now and see if I am getting any left side ones in my dreams

Arun,
You are giving time till this week end right . 3 more to go , incidentally there are 3 kutcheri reviews pending too !!!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 18 Apr 2009, 23:24

Arun
I am assuming you are giving till Sunday to solve this. For me 10 Across is killing me(i am having a very daisy head there).

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Apr 2009, 23:30

rajeshnat wrote:Arun
I am assuming you are giving till Sunday to solve this. For me 10 Across is killing me(i am having a very daisy head there).

Rajesh, I left another clue in post 7

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 19 Apr 2009, 21:36

Suji Ram wrote:
rajeshnat wrote:Arun
I am assuming you are giving till Sunday to solve this. For me 10 Across is killing me(i am having a very daisy head there).
Rajesh, I left another clue in post 7

Suji
I got it ,though your clue is still slipping . I am sure it is one clue that akellA gAru would have got it immediately.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 19 Apr 2009, 21:39

Arun
Submitted my answers to your mail which is linked in the site. Hope you got it. It was brilliant , next time before starting the next crossword, help me(us) out in terms of how to set questions in crossword. I have no basic knowledge of being a puzzle master , is there few basic tricks /understanding that I am assuming for sure that I am missing.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Apr 2009, 01:03

rajesh: We already see the effect of Arun in your reviews. I can see it getting more and more complicated, culminating in ? marks for the entire song list

( just kidding )

I am in the same boat as Ravi, I am not good at this kind of thing, but I am planning on taking a crack at these when I have some quality time. It is good to wake-up those dormant neurons! I am staying away from the answers or discussions about the answers.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Apr 2009, 02:58

vasanthakokilam wrote: I am in the same boat as Ravi

Oh Good! Some company at last!!

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 20 Apr 2009, 22:25

hey! I got one for sure (11 across) and two, may be (7 down)!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 21 Apr 2009, 01:19

I just got back from Cleveland. I will try to post the solution later today (and the next puzzle).

Rajesh - got the email although Yahoo is suddenly starting to send rasikas.org mailers to spam

- some spamguard it is

!!

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 21 Apr 2009, 03:14

I have posted the solution: http://sunson.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/ ... -puzzle-3/

Thanks for playing. I will try to put up the next puzzle in a bit - maybe today, else tomorrow.

Arun

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 21 Apr 2009, 21:09

8A - NIROSHTA (nirOshTa): The clue refers to a play on words on the phonetical similarity to the Niro part of the name and the Roman Emperer Nero. It also refers to the fact that this raga does not use the svaras ma and pa which involve touching the lips. So with the lips not touched for the the all the svaras of the ragas could lead to parched lips.

I did get emperor nero(some years before we used to say "when rome was burning , emperor nero was playing fiddle") and then zoned to niroshta, but still was not sure. I did know some time before when cmlover posted that HMB composed niroshtA krithi rAjarAja rAdhitE where his lips never touched but never knew the ma and pa connection and hence the hook to the parched lips. This is simply the best one .

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 21 Apr 2009, 21:16

Thank AAA with a daisy head and extemporise to a funky beat []
10A - KHANDA ATA (khaNDA aTa): The answer is the name of a tala (beat) and can be obtained by scrambling (extemporise) the words Thank AAA and D, which is the first letter (head) of the word daisy.

Arun,

I put it as khanda eka . My explanation of how I arrived at khanda eka is given below with the bolded alphabets (even khanda eka has AAA too).
Thank AAA with a daisy head and extemporise to a funky beat

I did not get everything right. This one I only got it half right. Did any one get all right, I think suji must have got it.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 21 Apr 2009, 21:39

Rajesh,

As explained earlier (in this and other thread also), you should NOT try to scramble part of a word unless the clue explicitly asks you to omit some (like Madam's Sahana loses the first note). So anytime you are looking for words to scramble (or unscramble) pick whole ones (whose letter count matches the answer's letter count).

You asked about how to construct clues. I just use my experience in solving - so I am unable to give a terse explanation. But basically here it goes:

There are a few common kinds of cryptic clues:
* Ones involving anagrams. Here again generally the clue should use full words (be it as-is of hints to abbreviations) - i.e. anagram should not be expected to be done on select letters of various words. If that is done, the clue should hint that as well. The clue must usually hint that an anagram is involved. Some common words are troubled, confused, broken, somehow, out, jumbled, produces etc. etc.
* Ones involving combining words to an answer. Here you take the answer and see if it can be obtained by combing words. Take sAveri which is save + ri. So you hint at how save can be obtained and how ri can be obtained. Again, the clue should indicate (directly or indirectly) that a combination is involved. Common ones are "and", "with" etc. But sometimes they need not depending on the clue.
* Ones where the answer is embedded in the clue itself. Again the clue should have some indication that this is there. Most common word is "in"
* Clues that use double-meaning. Like the one for bEgaDa (beg and ada)
* Clues that combine words AND then scramble.

The way I try to do as a clue constructor is this. In the end, does the clue read well from the perspective of doing the necessary letter acrobatics to arrive at the answer?

I mean - take the above clue:

Thank AAA with a daisy head and extemporise to a funky beat

The immediate meaning conveyed by the sentence is:

Offer thanks to AAA i.e. American Automobile Association (although that is indeed US specific) with the a daisy flower and then do some sort of a rhythm dance as part of the thanks.

This of course is a red-herring i.e. a misdirection. How well this itself reads adds to the attractiveness of the clue. In fact, the more coherent this is, the stronger the ruse would be and "cooler the clue is" (although crossword experts would easily know to ignore the ruse).

But from the answer's perspective you can read it as:
Take the words Thank AAA along with D (i.e. daisy head as in head of the word daisy) and jumble (extemporize) to get khaNDA aTa i.e. a tala/beat.

To me, if I cannot construct a coherent statement from this perspective, the clue is bogus.

Now even in my puzzles so far, there are a couple of instances where I did NOT explicitly indicate words for anagram (e.g. M&M contains a grand instrument). Those are some liberties that can be occasionally taken - albeit one shouldnt overdo it.

Arun

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 21 Apr 2009, 22:45

I liked the eight-born and the parched lips clue -superb!
"plead" gave me the answer though I know nothing about software programs.

This particular Crossword was beginner's level. One needn't stray far into the clue nor think too much about CM : )
What matters is the "chuckles" when you read the clues and the smiles you put on your face when you solve them.