Mutual appreciation between the vocalists and the accompanis

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 29 Mar 2009, 03:37

Mutual appreciation between the vocalists and the accompanists in the past

The concerts of the legendary artists decades ago had mutual appreciation, commerdise and many
a time the main vocalists themselves were fan of the accompanists. Vocalists were eager to know how
best the accompanists will play the alapana and swarams after the main artists complete the alapana or Swarams. After a long spell of swarams at the end of the song ,the accompanists may think that the song is over and reluctant to again repeat a long reply to the swarams. But enthusiast vocalist will nod his head to make the accompanist the reply to his swarams. Naturally the reply from the accompanists will be a fitting one and at times come up with an appreciable and in an exemplary manner. The vocalist and the audience will cheer up the accompanist with a grand round of applause. The vocalist doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t feel that the accompanist had overplayed or got more applause.

Such a commerdise and mutual appreciation have risen the concert level one up many a times.

Some of the best pieces of the concerts where in the vocalist and the accompanist have given their
Best are given in the Link below.

TKR-MSG.
http://fb.esnips.com/doc/574be2bb-f5d0- ... 26/TKR-MSG

SANTHANAM-MSG
http://fb.esnips.com/doc/088433b9-f4d4- ... Brindavani

S.Nageswaran.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 29 Mar 2009, 05:39

Mr.Nageswaran

Superb Thread and superb pieces tooo. Heard it in 1999 while i was on a tour to the US but couldnt copy now i got a chance to possess it through your posting.

Thanks a ton.
Hope other members will also post their clips. I shall also try to post a few.

J.Balaji

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 29 Mar 2009, 08:29

Thank you Mr.BALAJI . I hore that other Rasikas of the Rasikas.Org will also upload some excellant music from their collections where in the vocalists and accompanists combine together to give their best music .

S.Nageswaran.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Mar 2009, 08:42

Thanks Nageswaran. That TKR-MSG piece, in addition to the great back and forth collaboration, is a good illustration of how elaborate flat note singing, along with some big jumps in ascent/descent has a place in carnatic music. In quite a few places it sounds very western but very soon the interesting layam and its variations brings it back from Tchaikovsky to Thyagaraja. Garudadhwani is of course quite suited for this. The purity in TKR and especially MSG's flat notes is excellent. The audience seemed to have loved it all.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 29 Mar 2009, 17:15

Hi, MRs.Vasanthakokilam,
Truly this piece in Garudathwani is an all time great music for the rasikas. In another concert of Sri T.K Rangachari also there was a request from the audience to T.K.R to sing the same song .He just mentions ' HERE AGAIN ' but obliged in singing the song ( of course not up to the level of what he has sung the earlier master piece ).

About playing of flat notes in Carnatic music, there is a prevalent thought that singing in flat notes in Carnatic music is an anathema.

The beauty of listening music with flat notes can be felt in Hindustani music mainly and you would always love to listen to Sri Balamurali's singing applying minimum gamakas in his concerts.

Perhaps a separate thread on this aspect will elicit more views with uploading a few songs of Hindustani music and that of Sri Balamuralikrishna

S.Nageswaran..

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 29 Mar 2009, 20:10

essenji,

I listened to TKR's garudadwani and it is not to my liking. especially after listening to his vaaderaa this became an anticlimax. also in maharajapuram's brindavani despite his best efforts he could not bring about the notes too flat and most fortunately. then again i am a little disappointed that this brindawani is not his usual.
VK, my knowledge may be limited. but I have to get used to this kind of prayog to begin and discover to like it.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Mar 2009, 21:37

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 30 Mar 2009, 00:55

The TKR-MSG clip was phenomenal. Have not heard any session like that. Also jumping into ragamalika swarams like that when singing a kriti is not very common, is it?

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 30 Mar 2009, 02:26

Some digression...

Perhaps this was why its hard today to find a Chembai concert without MSG's accompaniment (Chembai of course the master of flat notes). One of the reasons why I like his music is because of the flat notes.

Of course there should be a flow... this TKR rendition doesnt seem to have that in the early stages.

Gamakas are for ornamentation.. they are necessary in carnatic music, but they should be sparse till its optimum to look ornamental.. excessive gamakas make sruti look like a fad.

Of course even for me who prefers flat notes, this TKR rendition looks too flat.. the key is to reach an optimum level like MVI. There is a Brocheva (Kamas) of MVI in circulation... which is simply the best.

MSG definitely has a mind of his own... he knew how to play like a soloist even when he accompanied others.

Perhaps we should have a separate thread on flat note singing... but here is another example (not uploaded by me) - again MSG is the violinist, listen to the flow of swaras and MSG's reply
http://fb.esnips.com/doc/ba6fff92-05e8- ... Iyer-{R,S}

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 30 Mar 2009, 07:42

In my opinion MMI remains unequalled in the open way he encouraged & appreciated the accompanists. LGJ has expressed in detail how MMI used to keenly observe, admire & encourage his every nuance& move as well as expand on them! I can say GNB & MALI were also very supportive of the accompanists tho' there is a mythology MALI gave a tough time to accompanists! TKR was also very open in his admiration....VKV

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 30 Mar 2009, 08:10

LOVED the TKR-MSG Garudadhwani. A most interesting, imaginative passage of play and MSG's responses are impeccable (and in good shruti as well). With a ragam like G'wani, like VK mentioned, flat notes seem very appropriate musically and I personally didn't find it out of line or excessive (maybe because I rarely find such elaborate flat note excursions in CM).

I also totally agree about MMI's open encouragement of accompanists. In fact aside from his divine music, one of the joys of listening to MMI is hearing his soft exclamations of approval and hearing him humming phrases the violinists play. What a man he must have been!

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 30 Mar 2009, 09:14

.About flat notes singing and gamaka filled singing in carnatic concerts, it may be better that some Hindustani music and BMK'S music pieces are uploaded highlighting the beauty of singing more of flat notes.
Sri G.S.Mani, in one of his concerts mentioned that gamakams in carnatic music is an important factor to bring out the beauty of a Ragam and the gamagams for different Ragas are different. But the artists should not apply it for every note and at inappropriate places.

S.Nageswaran.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 30 Mar 2009, 09:21

Hearing TKR in the clip, there is so much overlap with madurai sOmu ,more than flat notes shri TKR is more interested in giving more patterns and not that much consciously focussing in voice (perhaps I think garudadhwani forces that kind of swaroopam).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Mar 2009, 09:57

Nageswaran: I agree that a separate topic can be opened on the appropriateness of flat notes in CM. That would be wonderful. Demonstrating the beauty of that with HM is yet another separate topic. It is debatable that they use predominantly flat notes, defintiely their oscillations are different from CM as msakella has taught us numerous time before. BMK is fair game for this analysis in the CM context. Without starting any controversy, my own personal limitation in appreciating BMK beyond a certain extent is because he takes the eschewing of gamakas a litte bit too far in the CM context. ( not that he does not know, or not capable, he is a maha-vidwan, that is his choice, his bANi, it is upto us to take it or leave it )

In any case, the use of ornamentations of various kinds for different ragas is not wishy-washy or loosy-goosy. There are fairly well defined understandings of what they should be. Granted different CM schools have different ways but we know when the proper raga swaroopa in all its dimensions is not brought out. Taking srkris's example of Chembai's use of flat notes, he is quite right ( but a different league from BMK of course ). I feel silly to even think of finding faults with Chembai since I am a big fan of Chembai myself but I was listening to Chembai's rendition of "Sankari Neevey - Begada". I was quite disappointed that my favorite artist did not do any justice to my favorite song, especially the gamaka laden built-in swaras. He did not attempt the oscillatory gamaka on 'Ma', he just breezed past that. Since I am partial to Chembai, I chalked it up as 'that is his bANi' though I was not quite comfortable with that.

Having said all that, it is a common misconception that lack of sruthi suddham among CM musicians is due to the gamakams. Far from it. Listen to Veena. Vainikas employ all sorts of gamakams and no one will fault a good Veena player as lacking in sruthi suddham.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 30 Mar 2009, 11:44

vasanthakokilam wrote: Without starting any controversy, my own personal limitation in appreciating BMK beyond a certain extent is because he takes the eschewing of gamakas a litte bit too far in the CM context. ( not that he does not know, or not capable, he is a maha-vidwan, that is his choice, his bANi, it is upto us to take it or leave it )

Thats quite right. But there are a few recordings where BMK's Gamakams are just amazing! An RTP in Sundavinodhini with an excellent Ragamalika Swaram part that I heard sometime back (on Surasa I guess)..I too don't relate to BMK's style at times, but yes, its just a matter of our preferences and not the artiste's capabilities when it comes to people like BMK who are geniuses, no doubt.

vasanthakokilam wrote:Having said all that, it is a common misconception that lack of sruthi suddham among CM musicians is due to the gamakams. Far from it. Listen to Veena. Vainikas employ all sorts of gamakams and no one will fault a good Veena player as lacking in sruthi suddham.

I would think that accusation is usually made with reference to vocalists. Yes, I too disagree with it, anyway. Talking of instrumentalists, MSG's Shruthi Shudham with all that Gamakams and speed is something truly great!

Sathej

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 30 Mar 2009, 12:02

Sathej says:

Talking of instrumentalists, MSG's Shruthi Shudham with all that Gamakams and speed is something truly great!

===================================

Sathej , you can say that again.MSG's palying style with gamakam and at the same time shrudhi sudham is extraordinary. I feel that control of instrument stands first when it comes to music and no one can match him and he is unparalleled. Leagues away from even his contemporories in that aspect. A liking for someone's music is just a mental make up and subjective ussue.

Another person who should be mentioned here is S.Balachander for his control over his instrument and whether people like him or not is immaterial.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 30 Mar 2009, 13:45

ganesh-moorthy - you are right. When it comes to control of instrument and precision
MSG remains unsurpassed. If you consider ragha bhava (nuances of ragas) & adoption of vocalist's
style(rendition) - Lalgudi stands supreme. TNK perhaps stands out on tonal quality.
No wonder the vocalists of yesteryears were after them.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 30 Mar 2009, 15:25

In my personal opinion adaptation to vocalist style is not something to be lauded really. Yes lalgudi is great at it really. But As much as voice the instrument has its own beauty and bhava. what can be done in instrument cannot be done by voice and vice versa.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 30 Mar 2009, 18:10

Just imagine a concert where the violonist goes his own way and not in sync with
vocalist. You are bound to feel the disharmony howsoever good he(violinist) may be on his own.
Infact the most diffucult part for an accompanying violinist is to reach this level of harmony
or tandem with the main artist. Wont you agree that this is laudable indeed?
What you have observed is quite true for a solo performance.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 30 Mar 2009, 19:07

if you have to observe synchronising with the vocalist it is more of a strain to a musician than exhibiting his talent.

I am talking about solo dear purist.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 31 Mar 2009, 01:56

A Rare Hindustani concert of Sri Omkarnath Tagaore with Sri MSG Violin accompaniment and Sri SanthaPrasad.Tabla accompaniment The concert was at Music Academy in 1965.

At the end of the song Sri Omkarnath Tagore announces that in spite of his old age if he were to be able to perform, it was because of the support the accompanist have given saying "but for This fellow (MSG- implied)"

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 31 Mar 2009, 02:16

S.NAGESWARAN wrote:A Rare Hindustani concert of Sri Omkarnath Tagaore ........

Should it be Omkarnath Thakur??

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 31 Mar 2009, 03:08

Sri. Nageswaran: That HM piece is one of a kind. There are so many things in there: sweetness of music to anguish in expression. I do not understand the lyrics but that is how it came across to me.

Wonderful stuff. MSG is just superb.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 31 Mar 2009, 08:11

Hi,Mr.ramasamy,
Yes. you are correct.It should be OmkarnathT hakur and not Omkarnath Tagore.
Thank you for the correction.

S.Nageswaran.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 31 Mar 2009, 17:26

The information given in the " Information about the Artists " thread that Sri Parur Sundaram Iyer was working as the head of the department in Gandharva Maha Vidhyalaya is Authentic and not in Vishnu Dikamber College of music in Bombay as mentioned by me. I stand corrected.

S.nageswaran.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 03 Apr 2009, 06:13

Semmangudi in a concert at Perambur sangeetha sabha, after swaraprastharam in Begada turned back to Lalgudi and told ' Adiyya ' . Lalgudi as usual played for 3 mts continuously and no doubt all enjoyed including Pithamahar.
Thanjavooran

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 03 Apr 2009, 23:31

[quote="S.NAGESWARAN"]A Rare Hindustani concert of Sri Omkarnath Tagaore with Sri MSG Violin accompaniment and Sri SanthaPrasad.Tabla accompaniment The concert was at Music Academy in 1965.

At the end of the song Sri Omkarnath Tagore announces that in spite of his old age if he were to be able to perform, it was because of the accompanist saying "but for This fellow ( MSG- implied )"

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 03 Apr 2009, 23:38

In the last season, TMK sang Aparadhamula in Lathangi and after an elaborate round of swaras, he handed it over to the violinist (Varadarajan?). At a particular point during his reply, the violinist became the main artist and TMK became the accompanist. i.e. he replied to whatever the violinist played. It was an interesting exercise and was thoroughly enjoyable.

I agree that MMI was one of the artists who highly encouraged his violinists. There have been a number of instances when he lets the violin respond after a long round of swaras and the response has been out of the world without taking away the shine. In most of the cases, it's apparent that he has laid the platform for them. A few examples are Orajoopu, RTP Bhairavi with Govindaswamy Naicker, Kaanakankodi with Lalgudi (1959 Shanmugananda).

Chembai's concerts also have a lot of such examples. Shiva shiva shiva enaraadha (with Jesudas) where MSG gives everyone goosebumps, Raghuvara (with TVG) where Kandadevi Alagirisamy just rocks.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 05 Apr 2009, 22:03

Till now we have observed the Vocalists appreciating the accompanists in many concerts.

Here is a gentlemanly violinist appreciating the Vocalist as well as appreciating himself while playing the Alapana or Swaraprasthara.

He is none other than the Violin maestro Sri M.Chandrasekaran. All of you who have attended any concert where in Sri Chandrasekaran is an accompanist, would have observed Sri Chandrasekaran nodding his head and telling himself "SABASH"

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 06 Apr 2009, 07:22

vasanthakokilam wrote:Sri. Nageswaran: That HM piece is one of a kind. There are so many things in there: sweetness of music to anguish in expression. I do not understand the lyrics but that is how it came across to me.

Wonderful stuff. MSG is just superb.

I got the lyrics with a search and translated it with help from friends. This is one explosive meera bhajan. I think I got it mostly right. Corrections welcome.

No wonder he sang this song with so much emotion.

jogi mat jaa paanv padun main tori
Sage, please don't go away. I fall at your feet.

mat jaa, mat jaa, mat jaa jogi
paanv padun main tori
don't go, don't go, I fall at your feet.

prem bhakti ko panth hi nyaaro
ham ko Gyaan bata ja
give me the knowledge of the special divine love.

chandan ki main chita rachaaun
apane haath jala ja
mat jaa, mat jaa, mat jaa jogi...
please light my funeral pyre made of sandalwood with your own hands; but don't go away.

jal jal bhai bhasm ki dheri
apane ang laga ja jogi
after I am reduced to a pile of ash, smear it on your body.

meera ke prabhu giridhar naagar
jyot men jyot mila ja jogi
Meera's Krishna, add light (life, etc.) to light.

mat jaa, mat jaa, mat jaa jogi.............
but, please don't go away.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Apr 2009, 07:38

Minor additions:

prEm bhakti kA panth hI nyAro - As the path (panth) of (kA) SringAra bhakti (prEm bhakti) is the only (hI) path that appeals to me as the best (nyArO), kindly impart (bata jA) to me (hum kO) the knowledge (gyAn) of this path.

candan kI mein citA racAUn - I (mein) will make (racAUn) a funeral pyre (citA) of sandalwood (candan kI) for myself, please set fire (jalA jA) to it with your own (apnE) hands (hAth).

bhasm kI DhEri.

jOt mein jOt milA jA - after her mortal remains burn up in the funeral pyre, she is asking to merge with the supreme light - she says, 'allow my life force/soul/light (jOt) to mingle/mix with (milA jA) yours (jOt). Even after I die, I will not let you go'.

mIra refers to krishNa as the supreme yOgI in this composition.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 06 Apr 2009, 08:20

Neiveli sir is another example of appreciating the accompanying artists.
Aside.T he north indians have got a peculiar way of pronouncing neiveli as naiveli. gobilalitha

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Apr 2009, 14:27

I know that the lifelong rasikas have many stories to tell of the other side of the coin, but, for me, the co-operative team work and mutual appreciation on the carnatic stage is a big part of its magic.

I took a foreign visitor to one of Sri Chandrasekaran's performances a couple of weeks ago. He was stunned by the music, and remarked particularly on the mutual pleasure of the musicians.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 06 Apr 2009, 16:20

Let me narrate an incident, which was quite the opposite of appreciation. it happened nearly 15 years back. There was a violin performance at Chromepet, a suburb of Chennai BYsri.TN KRISHNAN.arranged by TAG i ndustries group. I don't remember who was the mridangam player. But ghataM was by VaikomGopalakrishnan . After 2or 3 songs, vaikam instead of EXACTLY following the beats of the experienced mridangam player ,proceeded ahead with gay abandon. TNK,noticing this shouted ' dey manasila mani iyer nu vicharama, adakki vasida , adhukkulle tani todangittaya( HEY, you think you are Mani iyer, follow the mridangam , have you started Tani so soon). VaikOm was stunned and hung his head in shame. After finishing the song, TNK told the gathering 'enna bayandhuttela, AVAN ENAKKU ROMBA VENDAPPATTA PAIYAN . E nna sonnalum kettuppan( what are you surprised at my shouting? this boy is my pet, he won't mistake my outburst) GOBILALITHA

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 09 Apr 2009, 18:02

Enna-Solven JI and rshankar ji,

I am thankful to both of you for posting the Translation for the song "Jogi math javo"

All these years I used to listen to this song myself or with my friends who want to listen to this song very frequently.

The emotional part of his singing of the song (the emotional feeling of pathos) and the brilliant and innovative singing in the Raag Bairavi only have appealed to me till now. Even though I don't know much of Hindi language, the Math javo word I felt the meaning as "Don't go" and Meera ke prabhu meaning it is a "Meera bhajan and addressed to Lord Krishna" only I could understand.

.S.NAGESWARAN