Children of cm/hm singers performing purely hm/cm concerts

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 04 Mar 2009, 08:17

Yet another subject for a lively discussion
.A) Are there anychildren of cm vidwans, performing hm concerts?
B) Are there any children of hm singers , perfoming cm concerts?
While there may be a distinct possibility of subject A happening, absolutely there is no possibility of subject B happening, as there is a sort of arrogant perception amongst hm artists that cm is something unbearable.
Have we not seen comedian Mehmood ,deriding a carnatic music teacher in the film Padosan. of course we all enjoyed the humour., which is our culture to enjoy even if insulted. On the otherhand, we enjoyed the pleasant exchanges in a song in the film Ek duje ke liye in which a hindi girl and a tamilian boy tease each other. (Kamalhasan andRati Agnihotri) gobilalitha

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 04 Mar 2009, 08:32

The children of Sri A. Narayana Iyer and Ammini Ammal (both Carnatic musicians) ended up being top musicians. One is the senior-most violinist in Carnatic field and the other is the leading violinist in Hindustani music.

Of course I am referring to TN Krishnan and N. Rajam!

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 04 Mar 2009, 10:45

I have heard Sri. Raghunath Panigrahi sing ragas like Arabhi and Mukhari for pallavis performed by the late Smt. Sanjukta Panigrahi during Odissi dance performances. Apparently, he has also sung tamil songs - "naan thedum podhu"

Anusha · Post by **Anusha** » 04 Mar 2009, 11:07

Remember reading that Gangubai Hangal's mother was a Carnatic musician.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Mar 2009, 15:07

Goodness, Uday... Is carnatic music really that bad?

Maybe I'd better shift to Delhi!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Mar 2009, 07:48

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 05 Mar 2009, 08:10

While I am very happy that the subject is gaining momentum, and we are fed with useful information on cm and hm, I still feel that while we throng the music halls , including senior cm vidwans , paying huge amounts when famous hm musicians perform , we do not find the same enthusiasm from the northeners when cm great vidwans perform either in s.indiaor N.India.why this intolerance and an inborn dislike? Uday has has said that the mannerisms of some of our cm artists are a matter of disgust for them. well, that is not the substance of this topic.
I can quote with great reverence a particular incident many years back. RAVISHANKAR WAS PERFORMING on THE SITAR, ACCOMPANIED By Shamta prasad on tabla.The performance started at 6pm. At 6.30 ShamtaPrasad left the dais for half an hour.RS WAS PLAYING WONDERFULLY AN ALAAP till SP returned. we were informed that SP had gone to perform SANDHYAVANDANAM, being a staunch brahmin. while I felt very happy about his extreme devotion, being a brahmin, the others in the crowd were not happy about it GOBILALITHA

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Mar 2009, 08:54

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Mar 2009, 08:58

Is CM more popular in South India than HM is in the North? This is something I've always wondered about. Sorry for digressing from the topic!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Mar 2009, 09:10

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Mar 2009, 09:14

Coolji, I meant is Hindusthani music more popular in the North than Carnatic is in the South? I can't comment about cross-Vindhya music appreciation being unable to appreciate HM myself!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Mar 2009, 09:25

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Mar 2009, 13:27

HM is as popular maybe even more so but certain "core traditions" - especially the vocal one - are certainly in danger. Let's take a SAnjay Subrahmanyan who can be seen as part of the core tradition - he draws full houses wherever he sings in the South (or for that matter even in the north although audiences are almost 100% south Indian).

His counterparts in the north are, alas, not doing too well for themselves - I have seen more crowds for artistes like Ashwini Bhide Deshpande in Chennai than in Mumbai. Same is the case even for big names like Parween Sultana - her concert in Bangalore was a full house but in Mumbai (free concert) hardly 50 people showed up. Probably Pune and Kolkata are the only two places where big crowds still greet HM vocalists.

OTOH HM instrumentalists find it easy to draw packed houses despite fees in excess of Rs 1000. This is probably what Coolji refers to.

Like Uday, I love the Taanam in Dhrupad - I think CM artistes have a trick or two to learn to beef up their own....

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Mar 2009, 13:51

It's interesting that while vocalists have a much stronger audience base than instrumentalists in CM, the reverse is true in HM. But is HM also vocal-centric like CM (i.e. instruments attempt to mimic the voice as well, etc)? I guess since CM is more sahitya and lyrics oriented, the voice is technically more important (in that it can articulate words), whereas HM from what little I've heard is more inclined towards raga development, so an instrument may well have no significant limitation compared to the voice in expressing the music. Is this the case?

I have to admit that not knowing any significant online HM analogs for our groups like rasikas.org and websites like sangeethapriya, I thought perhaps HM isn't as popular in the North as CM is in the South (not that the internet is a good indicator, but still)...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Mar 2009, 17:04

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Mar 2009, 17:23

HM is also vocal centric but as you rightly note SAhithya is not so important...also there is a specific format for instrumentalists - alaap, jod, jhala. In today's world, instrumentalists are certainly the focus of attention in today's HM, especially if they are glamorous and gimmicky...

The tech-savviness of the south may partially explain the preponderance of online fora (there are some for HM but not very active)...south Indian musicians are also generally better educated/have solid middle/upper middle class backgrounds although this is a bit of a generalization...

It may also be because HM is going through a phase (hopefully temporary) where the supply of competent young artistes is drying up....the only exceptions seem to sons/daughters of star musicians whose commitment to the art is questionable. You don't have bright sparks like the Sanjays, Sowmyas and Krishnas who are both articulate and highly passionate about the art...that, anyhow, is my impression.

It is difficult to imagine something like the YACM being a possibility in the HM scene, for instance...the people who can make it happen (sons/daughters referred to above) couldn't care less and are more busy "making" fusion music...for the others, the struggle for survival is too hard to permit such distractions...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Mar 2009, 17:26

Coolji, you will be happy to know that I have been to Harihar (lovely temple although I was just getting into CM then!). True, North Karnataka and smaller towns in South/East Maharshtra are among the last remaining bastions of HM...but that would still be South India, more or less

Would absolutely love to go along with my camera...let us indeed start planning...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Mar 2009, 20:26

Nandagopal, while all the artistes above are highy accomplished (I haven't heard of Kaivalya Kumar though), with the possible exception of Kaushiki Chakraborty, I am not sure those are the kind artistes I had in mind - those that can help reach out to the "hip crowd"...this may sound tangential to the purposes of high art but I do believe that the "cool quotient" of youngsters in CM has really helped create a mass base among youngsters - esp IT pros...

However Meeta Pandit is one example who does fit into the above mould and is strictly classical...also maybe a couple of others like Vasantrao Deshpande's grandson

No doubt, Kolkata will always remain friendly to the classical arts - thank God for that city!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Mar 2009, 10:02

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 06 Mar 2009, 10:52

Coolji, wow! Thanks for that sublime music. The magic starts around 2:00 and goes on and on... 10:00 onwards sounds like thanam. The vocalist's essays in the lower octave are stirring. What raga is this?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Mar 2009, 11:05

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Mar 2009, 03:27

coolkarni wrote:http://www.esnips.com/web/chennairasika-Music/

Here is a brilliant track for you , bilahari (and others ofcourse)
Hope you like it.
A track where the North-South divide blurs....
For more on the artist
http://agragharana.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... ith-j-rao/

Fantastic stuff. You are right, any CM afficianado can tap into this without any barriers to overcome.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 07 Mar 2009, 08:11

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 07 Mar 2009, 09:25

Going back to the Darbari clip Coolji has kindly uploaded, I am really struck by the fluidity with which the vocalist forcefully dips down to the lower octave before coming back up (happens a lot in 2:00-3:00); haven't heard such phrases done as beautifully in vocal as on the violin (Rajam)...

HM appreciation sessions seem really fascinating!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Mar 2009, 09:51

coolkarni wrote:http://www.esnips.com/web/chennairasika-Music/

Here is a brilliant track for you , bilahari (and others ofcourse)

That was excellent , I was always thinking when will I hear a live RTP in darbAri KanadA , I heard a Ragam and taanam of RTP in darbAri kAnaDa, what a beautiful rAga darbAri is.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 07 Mar 2009, 14:23

Sanjay did an RTP in Darbari at his NGS concert this season.
Appreiation sessions really sound awesome. Hope to at least hear them...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Mar 2009, 16:50

Thank you for the clip, appreciated.

And, of course, I like the idea of the Appreciation sessions.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 08 Mar 2009, 08:36

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 08 Mar 2009, 08:45

K'ji: Yevarikai is a rarity on the CM concert circuit these days - what a grand Devamanohari!! Kaivalya Kumar's performance at the Dover Lane sammelan this was just awesome - he sang gorakh kalyan and sohini. The impact was total - subsequent renditions of sohini by two other artists simply did not register (in my case)!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Mar 2009, 13:17

Wonderful! Totally chaste...wish we had more like him...CM with HM standards of Shruthi Shuddham etc, would be a wonderful experience!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 09 Mar 2009, 06:50