Yet Another Spinoff: Ragas Everybody Likes

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Mar 2009, 05:30

Uday's thread on ragas and krithis we all dislike prompted my interest in ragas (and krithis) we all like. I do not mean ragas that we do not mind, that we tolerate, etc, but ragas that we genuinely like or look forward to in concerts. Let's put forth our propositions for ragas we believe nobody would simply tolerate or even dislike, and the moment any proposition is vetoed by any rasika, the raga will be ejected from contention.

Here are my bets:
sahAna
dEsh
Ananda bhairavi
dwijAvanthi

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2009, 06:47

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Mar 2009, 12:57

Coolji, I just meant it as a survey of ragas that everybody likes (and by that I mean everybody). I'm wondering if indeed there are unanimously popular ragas/krithis. So people should just post a list of ragas/krithis they like immensely, and people who dislike any of these should voice their opinions so we'd ultimately discover if there are ragas and krithis that are sure to please all. In your own list, for example, I love all the songs except Entha Nerchina (don't dislike it either- it's just not a song that I find especially pleasing). It is basically the clause of unanimity that interests me here, since I imagine there are several ragas and krithis that MOST of us enjoy, but I wonder if there are any that ALL of us enjoy.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2009, 13:22

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Mar 2009, 14:04

LOL! Posts cannot contain capital letters so I'm writing this extra stuff.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Mar 2009, 14:22

rrao13 · Post by **rrao13** » 01 Mar 2009, 19:35

I recently heard a moving krithi of Shri Thyagaraja in raaga Gaanavaaridhi. It opens with the line "Daya Joochutaki idi vela ....Dasarathe". Awesome krithi. Does any one know of any site where I can hear this composition? I searched the standard sites but could not find it.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2009, 20:17

I know the most favourite raga of coolkarni is Kedar. He can prove it by examples

And we will be forced to agree too!
Case closed

sethu · Post by **sethu** » 01 Mar 2009, 23:25

Bilahari - though I love Kapi, I know people who just cannot tolerate it. Maybe you should remove it from the list based on your criterion.

How about adding Dwijavanti and Kurinji to the list (yet to meet someone who dislikes these). I feel more common a raga, the more probability that it will be disliked by at least someone since they must have listened to it a gazillion times

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Mar 2009, 23:29

Sethu, I did have my doubts about kApi, so thanks for confirming the bad news!
I was afraid to add Dwijavanthi because some might object to its Hindusthani flavour... And I agree the less common the better!

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 02 Mar 2009, 00:12

If we rule out beaten-to-death rAgas and kRtis, dvi-madhyama and hindustAni-flavoured rAgas, and rAgas associated with kRtis of dubious provenance, I suspect Ananda bhairavI and s'ahANa may be all that remain on the most-liked list.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Mar 2009, 00:45

I am waiting eagerly to know which raga is the penguin

On a tangentially related topic, a bunch of my friends and I are involved in an online game with respect to film songs. Each has to publish their top 20 film songs to
establish their 'rasika profile'. We will send out 'recommendations' targeted at a person using that person's profile as a guide. That person then will give a score depending on
how well they like the song. ( the target may or may not already know the song, the song may or may not be a favorite of the person giving out the reco ).
The score counts towards person providing the recommendation. This is a long running game, probably spanning months.
This is same as what NetFlix and Amazon type software programs do.

We are still early in this game, but we are finding out how tough this recommendation game is. I think at the end we may end up with the list similar to what Bilahari is aiming at for ragas.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Mar 2009, 09:39

Is it different with film songs, I wonder. The most popular (among the best of them) in our days were played ad nauseam. Yet, we did not and do not tire of them. They are 'time-tested' in our cases. So, is timeless appeal something we can consider too?

viswam · Post by **viswam** » 02 Mar 2009, 10:43

thodi is one of my all time favourites.
can listen to it for 'n" number of times!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:19

Got to veto that, viswam, I'm so sorry. I'm not a big fan of thOdi (but in a very very small minority I imagine).

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:30

Sorry to say this, you are going to end up with a list that is empty

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:35

Desh - just can't stand that raga

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:36

This exercise is meaningless. You can never get a list of 5 ragas everybody likes

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:40

Not even Sahana?!

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:45

Sahana is definitely my persoanl favourite, but I do know rasikas who don't like

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 02 Mar 2009, 14:50

Game over.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Mar 2009, 23:13

Wait, wait. Rajumds, in this game, we can not bring in non-members. That will open it too wide.

Let us see if there is anything left, at the intersection of the sets of ( NOT dislike ) ragas of those who choose to post to this thread.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 02 Mar 2009, 23:49

my suggestions:

rItigowLa
kAnaDa
nATakurinji

I would bet on rItigowLa the most. Now it may not be on the most favorites of some, but on the "un"favorite list? Anything is possible but...

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 03 Mar 2009, 00:42

I would vote for Mohana - It's universal

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Mar 2009, 01:03

Ragatthil chiRantha raagam ethu?

(perhaps NithyasrI should answer

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 03 Mar 2009, 03:25

Arunk's suggestions are all good for me. Ramakriya, not a big fan of mOhanam here but definitely don't hate it...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 03 Mar 2009, 08:39

The search for Raaga EVERYBODYLikes, has proved futile, after so many posts from members.It is like asking the" sweet everybody likes." My own liking is tirunelveli halwa, prepared in the famous 'IRUTTU KADAI" (DARK SHOP)TIRUNELVELI . would like Tirunelveli based forum members to flood my house with my favouritre dish. GOBILALITHA

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 03 Mar 2009, 09:31

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Mar 2009, 09:42

Bhairavi, Bhairavi, Bhairavi.

"...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten rAga, that whosoever listeneth to her should not perish, but have everlasting life..."

- rasikas 3:16

(Special exemption for Arasi)

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 03 Mar 2009, 10:21

I am a little confused here - I can't think of any raga that I "hate" - which means I like all ragas to some extent or the other - even Revathi or Karnaranjani which I have already mentioned aren't among my favourites. Let's take example from this thread...

Desh - I did enjoy a TNS RTP but generally this wouldn't be among my favourites. Sahana - do enjoy krithis with a short alaapana and swarams but certainly not a raga that gets me all excited if it is a "main"...

So when we say "ragas that everyone likes" - to what extent? Top 5, 10, 50 etc.? If we use a liberal top 50 definition, Desh is definitely out...if we use 10, Sahana will also exit...Kapi may just about make it...may I suggest a limit of 25? - if a raga is not within the top 25 of any member, then it gets bumped out...

I will vote out all the ragas above except Bhairavi, Mohanam, Kapi and Kaanada and add the following - these are the 5 ragas that I think have the best chance of universal acclaim:

Charukeshi
Shubha Pantuvarali
Hindolam
Darbari Kaanada
Shanmukhapriya

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Mar 2009, 10:40

In the film songs game we play, the approximate guidelines are something like this.

5 - Love it, I would take this to the island if I am stranded there for a long time
4 - Love it, it would definitely be in my play lists that I often listen ( mixed cd/mixed tape )
3 - Like it, it would be in my second tier play lists ( mixed cd/mixed tape ). I would listen for a variation from my 4 and 5 items.
2 - Like it, but..... Would listen once in a while, listen if it happens to come on. - Indifferent.
1 - Can not stand it.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 03 Mar 2009, 11:02

I like the idea of limiting the choices to everybody's top 15-20 ragas (they're probably 5-grade ragas on VK's scale too) and then constructing a general profile of the favourite ragas of rasikas.org members. The idea was initially to start out by seeking unanimously popular ragas, and following its failure and per VK's suggestion, work backwards to discover the ragas the greatest percentage of rasikas like.

We might have everyone submit their top 20-odd ragas (less the better!), crunch the numbers and come up with the overall top 20, have everyone use the rating system to rate each of the 20 nominees (since all of them may not have been in their original list), and then come up with the final ranking of rasikas.org's 20 favourite ragas.

Recommendations more than welcome.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 03 Mar 2009, 13:40

Good idea Bilahari...was going to suggest this myself. Twenty would make it too open, though - suggest five or ten with the top krithi in each...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 03 Mar 2009, 18:07

vijay wrote: I will vote out all the ragas above except Bhairavi, Mohanam, Kapi and Kaanada and add the following - these are the 5 ragas that I think have the best chance of universal acclaim:

Charukeshi
Shubha Pantuvarali
Hindolam
Darbari Kaanada
Shanmukhapriya

vijay

I know quite a few people who cannot stand bhairavi - they find it too "sombre".

Charukesi - to me it is boring and dull. Really not one of my favorites
shubhapantuvarali - see my comments on another thread about hamsanandi

. I like some renditions but this is usually in the range of hamsAnandi for me.
hindolam - i am ok, but i know people who cant stand it either
darbAri kAnaDa - a boring version of kAnaDa to me

Shanmukhapriya - has potential
mOhanam - it has its good and bad (as it "also ran") moments to me. But the fact that it is widely used in many forms of music is a strong case.
kApi - one of my favorite

All it proves is tastes can vary so much that finding a "universally liked" raga is almost impossible.

Arun

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 03 Mar 2009, 19:07

The logic was that these are generally (except Bhairavi) regarded as "melodious" ragas which are quite popular in films etc...but I guess even then, we will not have a consensus!

Mangalam? BTW Sourashtram is one of my all-time favourites!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Mar 2009, 19:53

coolkarni
will appreciate more clinical (curative) doses of other raga recipe that you have successfully used on the youngster. They sure would work on the old ones too

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 03 Mar 2009, 21:57

Thanks Cool for the track.

Earlier I couldn't stand that raga, now I think ,I can sit through

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Mar 2009, 22:11

Very good! The homeopathy is working...
Kudos to the deshabhakti generating Dr. Coolkarni

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Mar 2009, 22:18

Just couple of days back I was enjoying a great and sensitive rendition of 'Thunbam Nergayil' in Desh by Sanjay and today I see a need to take the raga for an Ayush-homam

To me, Desh based songs are immediately attractive but like it happens with too much sweet candy, it can become too much after a while('thihattal').

rajumds, What is your take on Kedara Gowla or Suratti? Just curious.

Bilahari, Vijay: I say go ahead with 10 or 15 ragas that would get a '5 or a '4' from members. ( they can provide less )
We can do the second round of voting on the resuting set if necessary.

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 03 Mar 2009, 23:46

Here are my twenty, arranged alphabetically.

Ananda bhairavI
bAgEshrI
bEgaDa
bhairavI
bilahari
dEvagAndhArI
hamIr kalyANI
kalyANI
kEdara
kIravANI
lalitA
mukhArI
rAmapriyA
sahANa
shankarAbharaNam
suruTi
tODi
nIlAmbarI
nItimatI
yadukula kAmbhOji

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 04 Mar 2009, 00:59

Here is my Top 20, in no specific order, and in the order I just remembered!

mOhana
kalyAni
tOdi
hamsAnandi
pUrvikalyAni
Shankarabharana
bEgade
kambhoji
mukhAri
Hamir Kalyani
khamach
vasanta
lalita
ShaNmukhapriya
rItigouLa
kharaharapriya
nATa
Ananda bhairavi
Arabhi
dhanyAsi

ooops ... I have hit 20, and I will stop here

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 04 Mar 2009, 01:01

Coming up with such a list can be a challenge.
One's likes and dislikes are a function of so many factors...
e.g. ragas one has listened to a lot recently, the mood one is in, even comments made by others.

Having said all this, I feel Sama may come close to having universal appeal.
I am sure you all agree.

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 04 Mar 2009, 01:23

At the beginning of this thread, Somebody was trying to come up with a raga everybody liked. And then Somebody disliked a raga Anybody came up with. So Nobody could come up with a raga Everybody liked. Then they turned to lists of ragas Nobody disliked which is not really the same as the raga Everybody liked. So Nobody agreed with Anybody since Somebody disagreed and now Everybody is now coming up with lists Everybody else likes. ..

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Mar 2009, 01:43

Vidya,

all true. The latest attempt is to see if there is enough cross section among the various lists and then create that 'intersection' list and see how many get veto'd out from that. Hopefully some ragas will remain.

( there seems to be an unwritten universal law: All active music forums eventually indulge in and many times turn into list making forums

)

pganti · Post by **pganti** » 04 Mar 2009, 03:55

here is my list - partly my likes, partly influenced by my mood, partly influenced by other's likes

sahana
revathi
ranjani
subha pantuvarali
reetigowla
kalyani
bilahari
pantuvarali
kambhoji
hamir kalyani
sama
athaana
thodi
saraswathi
saaranga
dhanyasi
khamas
kapi
poorvi kalyani
kharaharapriya

ok reached 20.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 04 Mar 2009, 04:15

Here is mine. Sorted alphabetically (and in some cases picking 1 out of a group of similar ones):

atana
Anandabhairavi
begada
bhairavi
dhanyasi
kanada
kannada
kapi
kedaram
kharaharapriya
madhyamavati
mukhari
natakurinji
nilambari
ritigowla
sahana
saranga
surutti
todi
varali

(note: updated since initial post to add aTANA and surutti/suraTi. Hamsanadam and nayaki were the casualties)

Arun

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 04 Mar 2009, 09:56

VK

I like both Surrati & kedara gowlai basically because there are enough kritis which bring out the various facets of the raga. Tulasi vilva (particularly Nedunuri) made me interested in KG, while MS' Venu Gana Loluni gives a different flavour. May be the unidimensional presentation of Desh by way of a few light songs makes me to dislike (??) this raga

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Mar 2009, 10:03

Vidya, that was funny and absolutely correct!

My Preferences [random order]:

Ananda bhairavi
sahAna
dwijAvanthi
nAttaikurinji
dEvagAndAri
kApi
bilahari
rItigowLa
aTANa
kAnadA
kEdAragowLa
suruTi
nArAyaNagowLa
kAmbOji
bhairavi
shankarAbharaNam
shaNmugapriya
kIravANi
dhanyAsi
yadukulakAmbOji

Please keep it coming!

Anusha · Post by **Anusha** » 04 Mar 2009, 11:15

My preferences-

Shankarabharanam
Begada
Kannada
Kedaram
Kurinji
Athana
Poorvikalyani
Sahana
Kharaharapriya
Nayaki
Shri
Kalyani
Asaveri
Mukhari
Mayamalava gowlai
Ananda Bhairavi
Mohanam
Khamas
Suratti
Kedaragowlai

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Mar 2009, 12:44

Here is my 20 ragas, not in any particular order:

bhairavi
shankarabharanam
mukhari
sahana
kanada
thodi
kalyani
vasantha
nattakurinji
yadukulakambhoji
mohanam
dhanyasi
sivaranjani
kedaram
begada
kAmbOji
bilahari
kApi
Hamir Kalyani
kharaharapriya