Neravals

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Jul 2005, 05:41

As a vocalist -in HM-develops a major raga in his presentation,there comes a critical moment ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??somewhere around the halfway mark-when he starts getting into unfamiliar(to the listener) territory.For the first time in the rendering , all known permutations and combinations seem to get exhausted , and the moment of reckoning near.A period when the novice gets differentiated from the expert, the boy from the adult.All that has been sung until now, seems just a preparation for the final assault ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? in the climb to those magnificent heights , where very few have been before .
In my early years of initiation to CM, I was lucky to come across KVN , both on tapes and in live concerts,because something very similar happens in his renderings.That moment of slowing down , that measured approach , and that grand finale which dissolves into the Thani avarthanam so peacefully- I was in continous amazement of this artist.There was always that bit extra which i have not been able to describe in words.

Learned people mention Neraval as a technical means of displaying manodharma- a state of the musicians mind.
To my lay mind, it is one area where the composer, the singer, and the raga , fuse so brilliantly , like no where else in the krithi.
As though everything that happens before and after , was just designed for this moment of ecstasy.
With this thread I hope to share the magic of nerval singing and its various shades of beauty.
I start with two neravals of KVN.
The first in Balagopala-Bhairavi an AIR program ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? in the 24th minute something magical happens
(We have already heard Chembais Neraval at drona karna duryodhana..in the AIR section.)
The second one , an excerpt from a AIR broadcast of Isai vizha ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??Punniyam Oru Koti in Keervani.
I have lived for several years in Kancheepuram and Visited Kamakshi so many times.But this is the nearest I have got to the Goddess !
This keervani is one of my all time best.

Needless to add, this is one phase in the concert ,where i enjoy the accompaniments most.
CML.. i have managed to master uploads on X Drive atlast.you wont see any more of the rapid uploads from me.,

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Jul 2005, 06:43

sri kulkarni - it is inevitable that this thread starts with references to sri kvn. thanks for starting this thread

http://www.sawf.org/bin/tips.dll/gettip ... 1&pn=Music

(kulkarni sir, i haven't yet heard the 'amba pAhi' you have posted - so, am not sure if it is the same version as this one)

http://www.sawf.org/bin/tips.dll/gettip ... 1&pn=Music

rasikas here are probably familiar with the links pasted above. they discuss nAttaikurinji and kalyANi - sri kvn is featured in both of them. in the nAttaikurinji - after a smoooth neraval, when he starts the kalpanaswaram thus - D N P kamanIya - am already in ecstasy.

among his many neraval-treats, a few other lines that he has left an indelible stamp on, are

i) manasUna dalachimai - pakkala nilabadi - kharaharapriyA. (accompanied by sri MC, sri PR. dreams audio release)

ii) manasUna nIke - Raghu vara nannu - kAmavardhini (accompanists, sri VVS, sri PR - a 1960s LP - recorded during the team's visit to the US)

iii) swara rAga laya sudhArasa mandu - intha sowkya - kApi this was i think the season of 2000. released in the kutchery series. as an aging giant, he has done a killer-neraval. the stress being on swara, rAga and laya - preserving the rasa so beautifully

iv) am forgetting the line - ninnE nammitinaiyya - simhendra madhyamam (mysore vasudevacharya) - paddhati series, the KVN /Ramani house concert, in cleveland Ohio, 1983

v) and two neravals in this kAlapramANam

rendungattaan - neither here nor there

(as his sishya/violinist sri HV srivatsan aptly refers to them in his article on sri kvn at www.narada.org )

--> rUpamu pratApamu shara chApamu - ninu vinA - tOdi
(rasikapriya sri srinivAsan had uploaded this sometime back - now it is available in the x-drive folders of bala747, sangeethamite)

--> ninnu jUdavaccu bhagini - heccarikagA rArA - yadukula kAmbodhi: tyAgarAja samarpaNam, AVM audio. also available at D.Sivakumar's nAda anubhUti

A kIravANi that i heard from him in mid-90's in a music academy concert will forever remain with me.

regards

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Jul 2005, 08:34

just listened to the kIravANI and bhairavi neravals. kulkarni sir, i totally see what you said about this kIravANi. if we notice a lot of his neravals, a few points come up

a) he truly represents the idea that a neraval is not simply an exercise, to be gone through (on the way to the mathematics of kalpanaswarams).
b) and how adventurous he is with the lines, rAgams, tempos he chooses for this feature - making it as important an episode in the entire rendition. just as the AlApanA seves as an introduction (ideally, creating a mood for the krthi that follows it), kalpana swarams serving to showcase the artists skills in notating the salient phrases in the krthi and improvising, neraval is the time when he gets to rethink, re-engineer, what has been composed - this is when true 'alteration' of the composition occurs

c) keeping in mind, the mood of the song,(sometimes) meaning of the line, kAlapramANam, he chooses the kAlam for neraval. for instance - in kIravANi, cArukEsi, and kApi most of his expansions are in the 'mudhal kAlam'. just a very little bit of the 'durita kAlam' - especially, his vilamba kAla neravals of his later years sound magical.

our guru used to give an analogy - intially kids are fed in small quantities/packets for quick and easy eats, but as they grow up, they are served the various dishes on a plate - for them to mix and match.

in other words, this is the stage, when the individual learns to spread the rice (a line in the song - with due respect to the composer) and add anything from a set of sides that are available to him, in ways that his manodharma allows him to (the other usages/musical phrases that the composer has used in the song) - ofcourse limited by the day's menu (the rAgam and song of choice) - while in the analogy, the pleasure is the individual's alone, in the musical exercise, it is everybody's.

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2005, 10:26

This is sheer poetry guys!
Superb selection and superb interpretation. Of course KVN is called the king (or is it emperor) of neravel. Thyagaraja is credited with inventing and introducing neravel into CM. I am sure meena will kindly update us on history and the technicalities. Let us have more examples and more Discussions

Pl continue...

meena · Post by **meena** » 04 Jul 2005, 12:34

* Where is the necessity for a neraval when the raga has been elaborated for so long?

Neraval is another aspect of manodharma (creativity) which is, no doubt, another means of bringing out the beauty of a raga. According to scholars and great musicians, the acid test for a musician's creativity is choosing the apt line for neraval in a given song, since the line has to provide scope for improvisation aesthetically, and also be meaningful lyrically. The unique feature of neraval is that it the only aspect of creative music where melody, rhythm and lyrics meet. It gives ample room for creativity while at the same time demands some discipline, since the artiste has to come back to the original tune after his forays into the raga. However, the artiste has to ensure that the different facets of creativity are properly balanced in a concert. Neraval is definitely a very distinctive feature of Carnatic music, very different from raga singing.

meena · Post by **meena** » 04 Jul 2005, 12:45

Deleted

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Jul 2005, 20:33

absolutely meena. truth!

when AlApanais become too expansive, by the time neraval is taken up, it is possible that the audience (and the artist him/herself) has had enough of the rAga-bhAvam for the day, or the artist could have exhausted most of the rAga prayogams (for that day!! manOdharma is also not a constant stock, available at all times - somedays, the artist does go round and round) - to deliver newer phrases.

vidushi smt R.Vedavalli has given some very helpful pointers for neraval singing - esp. choice of line. one eg of an inappropriate choice is 'kAma mOha dAsulai' (Emi jEsithE nEmi - tOdi) - she has said.

it seems to me, that while the line should not have a negative connotation - it need not always be in praise of the lord. which is where the differences in personalities of artists come into play.

'mamata bandhana yuta narastuti sukhamA' vs 'dadhi navanIta kShIramulu ruciyO ' - both lines being part of 'nidhi cAla sukhamA' - former being the popular choice for neraval, while the latter has been handled by sri ARI. another example being

'tambura cEkkoni' - koluva maregada
(this is among sri rAju's uploads)

and so many more giants who have revelled in this aspect of manOdharma sangItam - the king of 'bhAva' singing, sri Musiri used to scale great heights in this dept is what i've heard. unfortunately, not heard much of him. could the elder rasikas pls throw light? but the one tape that i have heard, gives a glimpse - dreams audio great masters series.

'alanADu kanakakashipu niNDAru ' - endu dAginADO - tOdi

and what can one say about sri MDR's interpretations!!

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2005, 21:40

and don't forget MS. Can you ever beat her classical 'meppulakai..' in Rama Nannu which brought the song into prominence or her 'saamagan..' which is saamagaanam in reality.
Among the oldies of course Musiri is famous for the bhava in the neravel (I call it 'tanmaytvam' which I dont know to translate into Tamil or English). For some of his best pl visit Srini's x-drive to listen to his 1958 MA concert. Also the Paddhati series of Carnatica (commercial) has given a good selection.

Again MVI had the art in perfection which was inherited by Santhaanam. His artistry is superb (the only problem is he plays for the audience

).

Then there is MMI whose natural lulufication gives a surprising beauty to neravel (and if you have PMI by his side then you are in for a dizzy roller coaster ride :cheesy: )

I am not missing GNB who brings a dignity to neravel with his majestic presentation. ARI of course is personified by KVN

Now how can I forget chembai. Instead of my describing him I would let our chembai post a fine example (I leave the choice to him ).
We are only scratching the surface and I am sure this is going to be a loooogng and exciting thread

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Jul 2005, 21:51

a neraval by BV raman BV laxman For ramachandraya namasthe is uploaded to X Drive.
We have been talking of manodharma as something unique to every individual.
It is wonderful to see -for a change - two artists here, giving such a subtle contrast to each other , aided by some great mridangam work !

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Jul 2005, 22:11

and don't forget MS. Can you ever beat her classical 'meppulakai..'

ofcourse cmlsir, and she had attempted a very short neraval at the opening lines of 'sogasugA mrdanga tALamu' itself. never heard that from anyone else. the scope for neraval in that line was buried, to be brought out by her. what more, she has done it to such perfection, anyone can use it as a sangathi itself and sing

unfortunately, not heard much of sri Musiri and sri MVI

as for sri MMI, his 'musicality' shows in every aspect. there's an immortal concert of his, with sri LGJ and sri Pazhani by his side

the 'kAlinil cilambu' (tAyE yasodha) and 'rAga tALa gatulanu pAducunu' (vAsudEvayani) defies description -hinged on his impeccable sruthi and hitting the key notes in the rAgam. his dwelling at the N,R,G,M in kalyANi is simply breath-taking. takes us to a point where we can no longer tell if it is his voice, or the violin or the drone.

elsewhere, in different company, he has unearthed kApinArAyaNi in front of a captive audience. yes, a full 1/2-hr sarasa sAma dAna - no AlApanai even

indeed cmlsir, am looking forward to all the uploads/demos that are in store - in this thread

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2005, 22:45

Thanks for reminding me about the 'kaalinil chilambu konja..' of MMI. i once heard a 3 hr neravel on this line by Mankkaal in his hey days. It is sad he is redued to a shadow of himself due to health problems.

I am also looking forward to u/l of exemplary neravals. While I am an addict of the raga aalaapana I have to admit that the neravel is distinctly different and has great potential in the taaLabaddha elaboration of the raga. This is where the "kaNakku" (which I never understood) comes in and of course herein the vocalist and mridangist are consciously walking on the razor's edge. The flight of fancy has to come down to earth to tie in with the saahityam.

incon

If you find specially elegant examples at Sivakumar's site please bring it to our attention!

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Jul 2005, 23:32

While I am an addict of the raga aalaapana

cmlsir, then, surely you will enjoy (maybe you already have) the mmi-lgj-psp concert i mentioned in previous post. has some great alapanas for ravicandrikA, kalyANi, tOdi. sri lgj shows yet again, what he's made of

shall post a note, anytime i come across neravals of a different kind

one that comes to mind is sri MDR's 'karAmbuja pAsa bIjApUram' in hamsadhwani - with lgj & pmi. you may recall, this line is sung in rendAm kAlam. He chooses this for neraval and immediately brakes it down (yes, brakes) to mudal kAlam - does neraval and swaraprasthAram. and by the time he comes to rendAm kAlam swarams, he has come back to the original 'reNdAm kAlam' for the sAhityam also

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jul 2005, 00:17

one that comes to mind is sri MDR's 'karAmbuja pAsa bIjApUram' in hamsadhwani - with lgj & pmi. you may recall, this line is sung in rendAm kAlam. He chooses this for neraval and immediately brakes it down (yes, brakes) to mudal kAlam - does neraval and swaraprasthAram

Couldn't resist after hearing Tiger's vaathaapi (recently uploaded by badri) as to how the Tiger mauls the saahityam makes it into a mincemeat and spits back keeping the music intact

That of course was the source of inspiration for MDR. MDR tamed that unruly Tiger into a circus performer to go through hoops at his beck and call!

poongavur · Post by **poongavur** » 05 Jul 2005, 04:18

KVN is amazingly delightful. Thanks coolkarni for the u/l and incon & cml for the lucid discussion.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jul 2005, 04:45

inconsequential wrote

shall post a note, anytime i come across neravals of a different kind

pl dont hold back.
I am lapping up every word in this thread

I have been enjoying the neravals you mention(MDRs hamsadhwani etc) in a totally different light now.
will try to put up these as well.makes the thread so wholesome.

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 05 Jul 2005, 07:20

Couldn't resist after hearing Tiger's vaathaapi (recently uploaded by badri) as to how the Tiger mauls the saahityam makes it into a mincemeat and spits back keeping the music intact

hahahahaha cmlsir. if only he had the voice of his sishya, it would have been truly a 'simha garjanai' (not really, because he's a tiger, still). but a very musical one.

the post is so true!!

the following is an anecdote i came across in 'the Hindu' once. Curiously, it was an intro to a review of music-tape releases.

THIS IS an old story from the classical music world of the 1930s. Musiri Subramanya Iyer had once gone to the Annamalai University as an external examiner for the music exams. During the afternoon interval he went to pay his respects to Tiger Varadachariar, the then professor in charge of the Music Department. After pleasantries, Tiger asked Musiri how the exams went and added ``I am giving you a test now. Sing `Yochana..."' Musiri sang the Durbar piece. Tiger asked him to do neraval for the Charanam, ``Kechana nija bhakta...'' Musiri folded his hands in a big namaskaram and pleaded helplessness (perhaps he wanted to hear Tiger do it himself). Tiger said he would show how that could be done. Followed an hour of great music, neraval and swara singing.

source:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/fr/2002/0 ... 500600.htm

can anyone imagine what sri musiri experienced?

this line 'kechana nija bhakta' (usually sung express speed) tickling the manOdharma of the Tiger, explains the tickle that sri MDR felt at 'karAmbuja pAsa bIjApUram'. the more i think of it, to me it seems, sri MDR saw his chowka kAlam as a necessity - to strike a balance between the 'profusion of musical ideas' (gathered at the feet of his master) and his own love for the sAhityam (since he wasn't a Tiger, he couldn't have made a mincemeat of it

) - the only way out was to sing them slow

a true devotee of his guru

kulkarni sir, heard the magical violin from sri tnk, in sri tns' viruttam. and i have already heard the cArukEsi and kIravANi a bunch of times (hardly a day has passed). thankyou so much

another link with a few pointers

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2004/11/05/stor ... 650400.htm

regards

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 05 Jul 2005, 07:49

thanks varadarajan for the article of musiri-tiger incident.
just curious:
can there be elaboration on the mincemeat of sAhityam of vAtApi by tiger in that 5:30 min clip ?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jul 2005, 07:50

Let us add to the neravel the fantastic 'Nagumo' (abheri) that coolkarni uploaded sometime ago of TNS at 'jegamEle'. Simply awesome.Intially the audience were clapping but as he progresses they are spellbound and are dragged into the dreamland by TNS and LGJ. Finally he launches into the delectable swararagamalika. Oh! What a delight!

"jegamElE paramAtmA! yevarithO *nereval*idudu?"

Of course the answer is TNS
(meaningfully mauling the sahityam unlike Tiger

)

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 05 Jul 2005, 13:36

Varadarajan Sir (Incons),
To add to you list of beautiful neravals done by "Neraval" Narayanaswamy are
(1) "pannagEndra SayanA pannagAri vAhana" in ninnE nammitinayya (simhEndramadyamam)
(2) "bAguga sriraghuramuni pAdamunu" in kaligiyunTE kada (kIravANi)
(3) "vAzha ulaginil peidiDAy" in Azhimazhai kaNNa (varALi)
(4) "aravinda patra nayanam" in SeSAcalanAyakam (varALi)
(5) "kamalajA manOhara SRikara karuNakara" in SRinivAsatavacaranoU (Karaharapriya).

I have had the experince of listening to (2) and (3) in his Music Academy Concert of December 2001, his last concert at the Academy.

mravi · Post by **mravi** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:23

On nerval some of the immemorable neravals I have heard are :
Chembai at ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??pranavaswaroopa vakratundam nirantaram nitilachandrakhandamÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? in vathapi - he has sung this neraval in many concerts. He has sung neraval also at ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??karambujapasabijapuram kalusaviduram bhutakaramÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? in vathapi in a couple of concerts. In one the concerts I think the kutcheri in poomuli he has gone for abou 6-10 minutes ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? He starts in the keezh stayi and touches the upper octave and again glides down beautifully .

On ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??Kalinil chilambuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? I have heard the neravals by of course the immemorable MMI, Musiri, Chembai, and Somu. What contrasts between each of these neravals . each one is a prime example of what creativity in music can do none of these are similar yet when you hear each one you end up in the seventh heaven. Somu has used the nadaswaram and bhajanai style in this neraval.

KVN, TNS, TVS have also sung neravals at ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??Kalinil chilambuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? at which are good. Santhanam has sung neraval (if it may called that) or has sung sangadi for almost 4-5 mins at ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??anda vasudevan evan thanÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? in his typical lullabyÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??sing manner ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? so soothing to hear.

Then neraval at vasavadiÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ in Sri Subramanyaya Namaste by GNB, ARI, MMI, SSI, KVN ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? each one exemplifying creativity is immemorable. The incident of GNB singing neraval at tapatrayaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. instead of the usual vasavadiÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. in a Delhi concert is also well known. In Kambodhi neraval of SSI at vani mata ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.. in ma janaki always lingers in my mind.

Neraval at ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??kantiki sundaraÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??, ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??paluku palukuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??, by both SSI and MMI, hitamu mata ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ by MMI and GNB, agama sancharam, akhila lokadaram ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. By GNB, athulita divya ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.. by GNB , MDRs sangadi of mridanga talamu for almost 4 minutes before he starts with sogasugana, are some of the outstanding neravals which continue to lilt ones mind no matter how many years pass by. And who can forget nerval of Somu at nenendu vedaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦..in a concert uploaded by Raju recently . Probably the best rendition of the krithi I have heard from anyone .

One can go on and on ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ neravals is an unending topic. I would like to contribute more on discussions & uploads in this forum but for time which is a big constraint besides the slow dial up connection. Anyway will keep contributing even if its in bits & pieces. Sorry about a long post ..

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jul 2005, 19:31

Thanks ravi

for that delightful summary of wellknoen neravels. I agree with you absolutely on chembai's 'praNava svaroopa..' which I may have heard so many times but never felt stale. Again you nicely brought GNB's 'vaasavaadi..' to memory. Please come back and share more of your experiences.

It is often said that Thyagaraja has standardized the point of neravel for a number of his kritis as a vageyakaara and I wish to know how far it is true. Of course a great musician (like Tiger for example) can violate standards and create music at any point in the saahityam. One thing I am sure; that the saahityam line has to make good sense for neravel. For example in 'kaalinil chilambu koncha..' we hear the jingling of the chilambu during the neravel. The contribution of the laya artist is of paramount importance. When MMI does it in the company of PMI, PMi actually produces the jingle sound in the mridangam (I don't know how he does that!). Also one has to experience neravel in person; audio will never do full justice. MMI actually danced with guestures of his hand while singning those lines. I can't describe them in words!

I would like to hear your own personal experiences and personal favourites. Thanks

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 05 Jul 2005, 19:32

divakar, i didnt understand the question

could you repeat

cmlsir, thanks for reminding us all of sri TNS - at another time, in a concert at TTD, venkatnArAyaNA road, T.Nagar, he camped at 'srI venkatEswara svaprakAsa' (sAdincene - Arabhi) for kalpanA swarams. needless to say, was great. He sang an unforgettable kEdAragowlai that day

ksrimech, mravi. thanks a lot for the list of neravals. ksrimech, thanks for reminding me of that line in simhendra madhayamam - pannagEndra sayana

one more of his (kvn) is in a song called 'rAmacandra pAhi satatam' -swAti tirunAL's nice, small composition in pUrNacandrikA - the line is 'mouLi jana sEvya caraNa' - this is an HMV release i think, swAti compositions

yesterday, while going in search of neravals, i opened the bag named 'madurai somasundaram' in D.Sivakumar's website. clicked on 'Sri ranganAtham - tOdi'. dont know what happened after that. still trying to find out. layam & sruti, when combined with an immense emotive power is magical. there's a layam even in the way he gives compliments to the accompanist. violinsit, my guess is sri MSG. what an accompaniment.

incidentally, noticed something really odd -
sangeetham doesn't have him- in artist profiles

- strange

regards

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 05 Jul 2005, 22:28

May I add one more of KVN's niraival, in Kharaharapriya, for Pakkala Nilabadi - Manasuna, in Charanam..

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 06 Jul 2005, 00:04

mravi sir

The incident of GNB singing neraval at tapatrayaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. instead of the usual vasavadiÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.

indeed. remember reading somewhere: once, when sri ARI was in a GNB concert, sri GNB started subramaNyAya namastE. one of the rasikas sitting next to ARI asked him it seems "yesterday only you sang the same song in a cutchery at a popular venue and why is he singing the same song again today?" it seems, ARI said something to the effect, "wait for the innovation"

dont know how true this is

abs'ly chitra

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2005, 00:10

OK
how about MS ai ' tanuvuchE vandana..' which is also immortalized in her UN concert..

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 06 Jul 2005, 00:41

cmlover sir,
I thought the neraval lines picked up by Smt MS in her UN Concert were "BAmiNi samudayASaya mOhana" (sArasAkSA-kAmavardhini) and "sAmagAnavinodini guNadhAma SyAmakriSNanutE" (sarOjadaLanEtri-SankaraBaraNam). Isn't "tanuvucE vandana monarincucunnArA" in pakkAlanilabaDi? I dont think she sang that at UN.

Well there is no argument that it is one of the finest karaharapriyA I have heard. I have an (incomplete) recording of hers somewhere in Canada (1977). She elaborately sings the raga,neraval and swara prastara. The whole song is about 40 mintues. I havent heard any other better KaraharapriyA. The concert also has mAtE (KamAs), aparAdamullaniyu(latAngi), anudinamunu kavumayya(bEgada), mElaragamalika (first 2 chakrams) Unfortunately, this superlative recording ends abruptly in the first line of the caraNam of caraNam caraNam endrane (sowrASTRam). If any body has the rest of the concert. I request them to share it. danke!

One more neraval specialist-MMI, "hitavimaTalentO bAgabalkitivi" (sarasasAmadAna-kApi nArAyaNi).

Addition to KVN's list: "rAjadirAja ravikOTi tEja" (SRipatE ni pada-nAgasvarAvaLi). I have heard him sing this as the main item in chamber concert in 1989. When he was singing the rAga, everyone where talking amongst each other that it was bahudAri. He stopped and said "idhu nAgasvarAvaLi, SRipatE paDaporEn". Till that day, I thought only MMI could eleborately sing such rare ragas and come up with unbelievable swaraprastAra. He proved it wrong with nAgasvarAvaLi.

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 06 Jul 2005, 01:24

was curious to know where or what was the mincemeat of sAhityam in tiger's rendition of vAtApi

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 06 Jul 2005, 02:24

divakar, i think it essentially meant - the lack of clarity of words in sri Tiger's renditions. which sri mdr took into account, in his renditions

think thats what cml sir meant. ofcourse with a little bit of exaggeration (mincemeat) , because it went well with the image of a Tiger

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2005, 02:28

divakar
listen to the one u/l by bala Tiger vaathaapi at around past 4 minutes . In fact at many places he simply swallows the sahityam but does not deviate in shruti.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2005, 02:35

Thanks incon for the interpretation. I was tying it to 'Tiger'

Pakkala nilabadi is in the 'Subbulakshmi in concert from her American tour' World Pacific Records WPS-21463.

It perhaps was not in her UN concert!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jul 2005, 07:46

i have uploaded a brilliant Brindavana saranga By trichur ramchandran-Chandru from a bangalore concert.

The first time i listened to this , As he started singing Sree Ranga Pura Vihara , My heart came to my mouth.Was it a huge risk , given all those famous renderings that we know.

The neraval at " Sankata Harana Govinda , Venkata ramana Mukunda '' dispelled all those fears.a thrilling climax by Chandru comes as an additional bonus.
CML.. this one is for the north-south twilight as well.

poongavur · Post by **poongavur** » 06 Jul 2005, 10:30

coolkarni,

Frankly, I never cared much for Trichur Ramachandran. Some years ago I went to his concert at the MA but left after about 20 min when he butchered purandara dasar's sudhdha dhanyasi kriti narayana. So, I was a bit skeptical when I saw your post but the brindavana saranga you u/l could change my opinion. He is very good, throughout in this. Thanks.

It just happened earlier today I was listening to "Dayavillaya Dayalo" by Santhanam-MSG-VR (courtesy raju). All the expert comments on this thread made me appreciate the nuances.

In addition to a super raga alapana, Santhanam did a superb neraval at "kanna kanna enrun namame ..." What I like most about Santhanam is his diction and voice. He sings so clearly and also makes it so pleasant and appealing.

mravi · Post by **mravi** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:01

Continuing on the immemorable neravals, who can forget neraval sung by MMI, Musiri, KVN at Adathu vandu ennai ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.. in Tiruvadi Saranam ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? a speciality of MMI & Musiri schools. KVN letting his manodharma explore the nuances of the phrase / line while singing neeraval is so very different. Similarly MSS, MMI singing neraval at krupanidhi evarai polaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. in Sabhapattiku veru deivam ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? one can really visualize almighty Shiva with all splendour while listening to the neraval. Manakkal Rangarajan has sung neraval at oru daram siva chidambaram endru sonnal podumeÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.. Again quite meaningful. One doubt here I have heard people singing sonnal podume as well as uraithal podume. Even though both mean the same which is correct version of the song composed by GKB?

Prema joochi na pai ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ in sitapathe, naan edutha janmam kanakku ezuda ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.., sannu tanga sree ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦, agama sancharu dataÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.., all by MMI are unforgettable. The combination of LGJ/ TNKÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??s violin and PMI/VRÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??s mridangam is only enriching the neraval. Booloka vaikunta ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦. By SSI, TNS, and MSS is a class in itself taking rasikas really to vaikuntam. MVIs neraval in siva siva siva ena radha, and at illalo allalo sarivaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦, GNBÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??s neraval at raajita amarabalaÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦are out of the world.

The neraval styles of these great maestros can be charaterised (the most striking aspects) as :
MMI ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? splitting the neraval line into words and beautifying each word, phrase to take the listener into that world. Best example as cmlover said is kalinil chilambuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦, hitamu ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦ hitamuuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦hitamuuuuÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦..(I am not good at reflecting that here)

SSI - bring in nadaswaram phrases into the neraval which is very pleasing to the ear more so in higher octaves
Somu ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? bring in nadaswaram / Hindustani style phrases and take it to heights with some bhajanai/thevaram style mettu adding more divinity
KVN ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? neraval chakravarty that he is, makes even a layman understand what neraval does to meaningful pharases/ lines in krithis
GNB ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? interlaces neravals with brighas and makes it beautiful to visualize, while maintaining the tempo .
TNS ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?? brings in brighas and also kannaku into singing neraval . that reminds me of his nerval at pazanimalaiÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.. in ka va va in a sivan day concert at sastry hall in ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??80s LGJ as violinist has just made his violin speak with TNS ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢?ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¦.unforgettable.
Maybe other can add to this. There is still a lot more..... this is what makes CM divine....

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:07

uraiththaalum pOdhumE

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 06 Jul 2005, 11:37

tiger-sabApatikku-AbhOgi
he sings in caraNam 'uraittAl pOdumA' instead of 'uraittAl pOdumE' thereby changing the meaning from 'enough' to 'is it enough'.
interesting.. or did i hear it wrong ?

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Jul 2005, 12:13

Divakarji

DSR rendetion also sings -'uraittAl pOdumA'

audio clip:

http://carnatica.net/special/raganubhava-saj-ii.htm

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jul 2005, 18:04

I have been following this discussion closely and I agree with everything that has been said. In some of the newer concerts and recordings, I feel that the points chosen for the neraval leave much to be desired, with extremely inappropriate splitting of words and incomplete words that are meaningless sounds! The splitting is a bigger problem with swarams: When words like 'bAlagOpAlam' are split into 'bA', all it sounds is like a goat (may be a vocally trained goat, but a goat nevertheless!) followed several swaras later by 'lagOpAlam'!
Another difference betweeen styles I noticed (and please correct me if am wrong): both MSS and SSI seem to sing neravals and swarams within the context of the song, while most others chose to complete the song/charaNam and then go back to the words they chose for the neraval.
Ravi Shankar

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jul 2005, 18:21

Are there any gems from MSS concert tours of the US and Canada available (I don't mean the Pittsburg Temple/UN/Carnegie Hall ones)? I would love to hear MSS's version of HMBs lilting 'mAthE' if possible. I am trying to get some tracks from MLVs concerts in Chicago many decades ago, and will share them as soon as I get a hold of them.
Ravi Shankar

poongavur · Post by **poongavur** » 06 Jul 2005, 18:41

all it sounds is like a goat (may be a vocally trained goat, but a goat nevertheless!)

that is true but hilarious, rshankar. I agree that the choice of phrase is important.

Another difference betweeen styles: both MSS and SSI seem to sing neravals and swarams within the context of the song, while most others chose to complete the song/charaNam and then go back to the words they chose for the neraval

That is a good observation. I heard somewhere that this is a characteristic of the Umayalpuram school.

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 06 Jul 2005, 21:03

meenaji: i listened to the DRS clip.
can someone comment/explain about it, why is it sung as 'pOdumA' instead of 'pOdumE' ?
have to listen to mdr and see if he too sings the same way.

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 06 Jul 2005, 21:23

ravi sir
thankyou very much for recollectinig so many of the examples. indeed. each one is a gem. sri MMI's Arabhi sounds really great indeed. he has the uncanny knack of singing a whole string of words (that he chooses for neraval), staying at a single note at a time (or maybe 2 notes at max) - w/o sounding monotonous - that is where i think the magic of sruti sudham / kAlapramANam takes over.

another rare song is 'pAmAlaikkiNai undO' by sri pApanAsam sivan, (his tribute to mahAkavi bhArathi) sung by sri MMI - neraval at 'tamizhnAdu seitha tavappayanAl'. and while talking about mrdangam accompaniment to sri MMI, we surely have to remember the great sri Pazhani.

the gnb-lgj-pr concert uploaded recently has the "tApatraya haraNa nipuNa" neraval (kAmbodhi) and another surprise - in niDhi cAla sukhamA - "sumati tyAgarAjanutuni" (kalyANi). (abt 5yrs back, sri TMK attemped a similar exercise at this line - am unable to recollect if he did neraval though)

another observation -

vAsavAdi vs tApatraya - one begins at tAra sthAyi shadjam, the other daivatam (has an added effect even in swara prastaaram - probably will influence the flavour of the swara-korvais also)

similarly

dadhi navanIta/mamata bandhana vs sumati - tArasthAyi shadjam vs the rishabham of the same sthAyi (R G R) - the swara korvais have a different feel altogether)

both MSS and SSI seem to sing neravals and swarams within the context of the song, while most others chose to complete the song/charaNam and then go back to the words they chose for the neraval

indeed true rshankar. i was also wondering. in general (listening to the concerts,) it seems the old school did the neraval/swaram as they came to the line, even while rendering the song (adding a surprise element - hence retaining audience interest along with it) - the newer pratice, when did it begin? '80's concept? now, when someone sings a popular krthi (ghana rAgam) finishes it, the audience can almost start the neraval in their heads - at the popular line of that krthi - no surprises

regards

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jul 2005, 22:22

i have just uploaded MMI 's Thookiya Thiruvadi from the concert (which also has the famous lathangi RTP.)

I was lucky to get this concert very very early -I have lost count the number of times i have listened to this.
TN Krishnan --- there is something very very special over here.
absolutely masterly.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jul 2005, 23:06

it seems the old school did the neraval/swaram as they came to the line, even while rendering the song (adding a surprise element - hence retaining audience interest along with it) - the newer pratice, when did it begin? '80's concept? now, when someone sings a popular krthi (ghana rAgam) finishes it, the audience can almost start the neraval in their heads - at the popular line of that krthi

I am not sure if the 'old'/'new' school alone explains this: I have heard MLV's concerts where she finishes the song and then comes to the neraval or swarams: I agree with you that there is no surprise there.

I heard somewhere that this is a characteristic of the Umayalpuram school.

Poongavurji,
I assumed that this was a SSI peculiarity that was polished and perfected by his 'shishya-shiKAmaNi' MSS! I had not heard of the umayALapuram school's practice before!

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 06 Jul 2005, 23:29

rshankar,

ya, true. maybe old/new generalizations are not valid. i should say, seems more prevalent in recent decades than in the era of the veterans.

ofcourse, i have to also mention - most (infact all) of my listening experience (the oft-mentioned stalwarts) is only through tapes. which is a very small representative of the entire volume of live music they produced. there are high chances my observation is wrong.

regards

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Jul 2005, 23:29

I am aware that none of u are able to access Carnatic
Music Forum folder.

Working on it, please be patient. We'll post the new access link.

Pl.Continue with ur discussions.

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 07 Jul 2005, 01:25

'ettanayO' thanks kulkarniji for MMI-SankarAbharaNam.
MMI's S'bharaNam itself is rare (i think) this is super.

probably he is only one to sing "ga ma pA ma gA ri ga sA ri gA ga" as the kAmbhOji way. remember 'parimaLa rangapatE'

pl. check.
violin doesnt seem like TNK; its more like VGN (v. govindaswamy naicker) which we heard from a concert of MMI-VGN-VR u/l by varadarajan sometime back on xdrive

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 07 Jul 2005, 08:41

divakar.
in HM there is a term to describe listeners.
Tansens -the learned ones.
Kansens - the ones who look like learned ones but are actually not.

here is a note of thanks (for pointing out my error in my assessment of the viloinist )
FROM A KANSEN TO A TANSEN.

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 07 Jul 2005, 09:33

hi all. have always wondered - maybe it is too late into the session for a question like this

but what exactly is the origin of the word 'manodharma' and why/how has it come to mean qualities like 'imagination/improvisation' etc. am unable to find any immediate connection. pardon my ignorance if it is supposed to be elementary.

had to ask somewhere, sometime. so thought why not here and now

regards

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 07 Jul 2005, 09:58

and reg neravals,

i'd like to point out a splendid neraval sri TMT does at
'kAma janaka vidheendra sannuta' in the gowLa rAgam marvel 'srI mahA gaNapatiravatumAm'. in the company of sri MSG and sri TKM.

it is followed by some sparkling swarams. the whole song lasts a little over 12mins and one has heard the most fulfilling gowlai. maybe i have not heard much - but i really dont recall hearing a lot of neraval attempts in gowLai (kalpana swarams, yes. too bad for gowlai - of the 3 popular pieces, 2 are on Lord gaNapati, one is a 'ratnam' - common mindset doesnt allow neraval adventures)

it seems to me,
sri TKM is to sri TMT what
sri PMI is to sri ARI or sri PR is to sri KVN

It almost sounds like sri TKM is playing in the garden of sri TMT's 'highly-musical-mind'

once again - where one finds this piece? sri rAju's early uploads - TMT-MSG-TKM files. if the rasikas dont already have it, it might be worth having in our folders (meena?). it is a 27min long clip. bonus: one of the most stunning lathAngi expansions

sri coolkarni, as a personal request - anytime you feel like letting out a TMT-concert from your treasures, i'll be ready to grab it.

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 07 Jul 2005, 10:04

incon
Yhis is not exact but may answer obliquely your query:
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8896/page4.html