God and the musician

kmurali · Post by **kmurali** » 22 Dec 2008, 15:48

So says the description of a panel discussion that traces how current performances are ostensibly rooted in the Bhakti rasa, but seem to be deviant from a performer's personal point of view. Hypocricy or double standards?

Apparently it is being held at the Krishna Gana Sabha between 10:15 and 11:30 AM tomorrow with the partcpation of Ravikiran, Neyveli Santhanagopalan and Sriram Parasuram, moderated by Anil Srinivasan, who seems to be very active on this forum offlate

Might be worth a visit!

(Mod note: Title of the thread changed to refelect what asrini mentioned below )

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Dec 2008, 16:16

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 22 Dec 2008, 19:57

Is God *necessary* in CM any more will be a better topic IMHO.

We have already seen performing artists like TMK say that music itself is an end rather than a means. I have heard stories about Tiger singing a pallavi about a street vendor. Plus the fact Javali's etc etc have nothing to do Bhakthi. More to do with expressing our own "karuna rasa" mindset using names of Krishna / Radha etc ...

I have not had any interaction with Ravikiran or Sriram Parusuram so I cannot comment, but I think NSG sir will be firmly on the Gods' side and personally I would agree with him

Perspectives vary and I am more than happy to agree to dis-agree! Some people may love Hamsadhwani on it's own, I prefer it with Vathapi thank you very much!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 22 Dec 2008, 21:03

Can we make it relevant to Hindu temples, hindu sabhas, bhajans, harikathas, and so on only that artists will sing devotional songs? Is it OK for a non-hindu to sing hindu CMs? Should we avoid the lyrics composed by Kabir, Sai Baba, etc? Are the CM raasgas for exclusive use of hindus? Let us ponder! Is it OK for movie directors to use CM raagas for movies other than mythological?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Dec 2008, 21:20

Is Carnatic Music relevant to God anymore ?

sd/- God

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Dec 2008, 23:45

Is it OK for a non-hindu to sing hindu CMs?

Our Hindustani cousins don't seem to even bother with this conversation!

A Hindu friend, on taking me to hear her favourite Hindustani artist, a muslim, told me that part of her love for this musician was the passion and feeling that she was able to put into Hindu songs.

CMLover: excellent thought.

Cool, your wonderful picture reminds me of a friend who asked a farmer how far it was down the road to his destination town.

The farmer, a typical straw-sucking unshaven rural type, promptly answered, 14,000 miles!

My friend remonstrated, only to be told, "tis 14,000 miles... but if you turn around and go that way, tis just under three!"

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Dec 2008, 23:51

Why didn't they get TMK for this discussion? Coolji's sign pretty much sums it up I'd say. Except there should be more arrows in other directions.

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 23 Dec 2008, 00:24

kmurali - thanks for the interest but you got the topic wrong. The title is "God AND the musician" not "Is God relevant for Carnatic music".

The discussion is certainly not restricted to Carnatic Music. I am a western classical musician, Sriram of course has his Hindustani base as well. Unfortunately, due to a lack of time (and resources!) we couldn't get a more diverse panel.

The idea is to revisit the original moorings of creativity - a quest for the divine (be it of any form), and how certain bizarre notions (including such suggestions as "is god relevant" - a most absurd notion, sorry kmurali!!) have begun to gain currency. Even more relevant in a divisive and somewhat misanthropic social climate.

It promises to be an interesting one hour, so do join us.

krishnayoga · Post by **krishnayoga** » 23 Dec 2008, 02:09

What do you mean by any more GOD is present everywhere where he is not even if you write GOD is nowhere.. it is GOD is NOW HERE! so music itself is Shabda Brahman! even ifyou study science and if you are a rationalist.. then also without HIS blessings your sound or voice will not come out. so Keep the things where it belongs too. dont show arrogance by keeping aside GOD ok.

Everyone is ultimately form of GOD.

so even if you sign as GOD that does not mean that others are not GOD.

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 23 Dec 2008, 15:12

Thanks to cool for the wonderful photograph and to Nick for the 14000 miles joke.

We are discussing a lot of things without the subject being defined. CM is an ocean and we are only discussing certain aspects of it. To ensure that my observations are not misunderstood, I would like to lay out the different aspects of CM performance according to my viewpoint. The question that is being discussed, in substance, really is, " How relevant God is for CM concert performance?"

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 24 Dec 2008, 07:05

Music has no barriers-be it of religion,language,
Caste,creed or country.
It is the language of the heart, like love.
Some call it is means to an end,
Some call it the END itself.
Whatever it is,
Music gladdens the singer and the listener.
Enjoy,everyone.

mcescher1-
uNarccigaLukku mozhi illai,
mozhi oru taDaiyumillai
isai enbadu ellOrkkum podu
adaRkku mozhiyumillai, madamum illai
nADum illai, jAtiyum illai
paravikkiDakkum kARRaippOl
unakkum enakkum adu podu
ellOraoyim magizhvikkum isai
adaRku vEli illai.
idai vazhangubavaRkum Anandam
peRubavRkum Anandam
yAm peRRa inbam peRuga ivvaiyagam.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Dec 2008, 07:30

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 24 Dec 2008, 13:10

Dear mcescher1,

There is a supernatural force that controls all of us. People who had the fortune to feel His presence say that he is indescribable. He has the capacity to appear before you in the form you want to see him. Basava was a low born and He appeared to him in the form of a Bull. Saint Raidas of Banaras was a cobbler and Tulsidas, a brahmin saint ,went to his place to have his darshan. You need not feel low because of your birth. The world is wide open for you.

If you do not want God it is a personal issue and there is nothing wrong. You can still enjoy Carnatic Music. There is no harm.
The discussion is about whether the musicians should have respect for Saint Thyagaraja and the God he praises when they sing his kritis on the stage. Listener is free to enjoy the music part of it and not go into the meaning of the kritis.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 24 Dec 2008, 14:09

coolkarni, here it is
mcescher1-
There is no language for emotions
Language is no barrier either
Music is common to all
It has no language, no religion
It has no country it has no caste
Like the air which is spread everywhere
It is common for me and you
Music gladdens one and all
It has no fencing
It gladdens the giver-the performer
It gladdens the receiver-the listener
Let the whole world enjoy what we enjoy

Last edited by Punarvasu (Today 06:37)

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 24 Dec 2008, 14:12

Religion is that which unites one with the maker; if music can do that, then music itself is the religion;music itself is the Supreme;it is the means to an end;or it may be the END itslef.

balsree · Post by **balsree** » 24 Dec 2008, 15:27

Punarvasu wrote:M

paravikkiDakkum kARRaippOl

Is that how Katru is coded or a T is missing in that . i spent quite some time to decode the word but could not. only when the english translation was posted i figured that out

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 24 Dec 2008, 17:14

balsree,
I was also a little uncomfortable in the beginning using 'RR' for the big 'ra' in tamizh;I would have preferred to use 'tr'; but this is how it is used in this forum.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Dec 2008, 02:55

Excellent poem, Punarvasu.

If one likes CM very much but does not believe it God, it is only fair that they still thank God since God has been an inspiration for some great music making..... (

)