Tala iedntification.....

[chitrathiagarajan]

How can one identify the tala of a kriti while listening to its rendering?
Ct

[Nick H]

Simply... count the number of beats in one line!

Not a comprehensive answer, of course, but it is an effective starting point.

If you have difficulty in identifying 'beats' (stress points, not everyone agrees on the definition of this word), then it helps to listen to the patterns the mridangist is playing.

[girish_a]

A related question. In the midst of a composition or swara prastara, how does one know their whereabouts in the Taala?

There was some lively discussion about this in another thread some months ago, but I wasn't fully satisfied with the general consensus that "it comes with experience". While it is true that experience helps you to merge back with the Taala if you stopped counting, I don't believe it can be done without some kind of cue. Experience probably helps to discern those cues, but I doubt that you can merge with the Taala "just like that".

I'm waiting for someone to provide some helpful tips.

[vijay]

You can always look at the other performers, at least one of which, presumably, would be keeping time!

If all of them are lost I don't think there is any way in which the situation can be amended. I suppose one of them would just have to bell the cat by slapping a voluble samam on the thigh!

If you mean for one of the performers who is lost and the time-keeping by the others is not obvious - let's say, durinig the violinist's swara prasthara, the vocalist loses track - he will just have to sit back and enjoy the music until the violinist finishes the swaras and returns to the neraval line!!

In the midst of a composition one would know exactly where the taalam is...this kind of confusion can happen only during swaras/neraval...

[vasanthakokilam]

I suppose one of them would just have to bell the cat by slapping a voluble samam on the thigh!

That is called leadership! ( p.s. the world economy currently needs such a big slap to reset to a samam )

[Nick H]

In concerts there are nearly always visual clues from the stage or from a nearby audience member (hopefuly not audible clues, of course ).

The putting of tala by some main artists, though, can very very, very vague and sometimes it can be hard to work out 'claps' from 'finger counts', let alone see which finger is being counted; and that wave? was it a wave? or was it a gesture?

Not that it should greatly concern us: the artist is there to sing to us, not to mark time for us!

The real challenge is in listening to recorded music, being fully separated from all the visual clues. Even here, some hard listening can sometimes uncover the occasional clap.

[bilahari]

My violin teacher says he always watches the vocalist's tala while playing his returns, and when he's playing solo and gets lost, he looks at a reliable member of the audience in the front row!

[semmu86]

well said nick. even in recorded music , it wont be a challenge when you are listening to concerts of sri.KVN or semmangudi.. for eg in Adhi thAlam 1-kalai a beat followed by a silence for laghus and the sound of two claps for druthams can be easily indentified..

but in some concerts of sri.BMK , it can get really tough , especially if one dosent know the krithi which he is singing (if he is singing his own compositions)

[vasanthakokilam]

I think the intent of the original poster is "how do you identity the thala for a rendition in the absence of thala keeping sounds, mridangam etc.". That is a tough question. For pallavi's, for triputa class of thalas, it is possible to do it given the stress at the arudhi but in general that is a tough exercise often with multiple possible answers.

As Nick observed earlier, the ability to latch on to the beats inherent in the song is important first step. Then get the avarthana ( cycle ) count. That itself is a major achievement. Misra chapu and khanda chapu throws in some challenges in terms of getting at the beats at the right kalapramanam and matching the beats to the perceived stress points. I often get it wrong for misra chapu.

[Nick H]

... the ability to latch on to the beats inherent in the song is important first step.

We have to grasp two things: the tempo and the cycle structure (roughly, number of beats).

With or without visual signals, the accompanists can digest this information within the first one or two beats and join almost immediately. This is one of the many skills that musicians have that amazes me!

It is like the mental speed of the racing driver or pilot, compared with the cyclist. Even the subdivisions of the first beat can be enough for the mridangist to grasp the laya.

(Yes, I know that, very often, the mridangist will not join until half-way through (or the first drutam) of a kriti, but, particularly in the lighter pieces they may play from the start.)

[Vijayakumar]

Also I have this doubt. If any of you have noticed nagaswram and thavil kutcheries, its normally thavil that takes the lead and nagaswaram follows later in contrast to how mridangam follows vocal in concerts. Why is this so for these instrumental music?