Spontaneity in CM

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 19 Jul 2008, 02:20

Of late I have noticed a trend amongst some artistes to pre-plan their kutcheris to the nth degree. To me, this takes away from the essential beauty of a CM concert.
At this rate, there may come a day when we have pre-printed listings of concert items distributed/published ahead of the concert! (similar to for western classical concerts)
Or has that day already arrived?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2008, 02:38

They have to be zen about it, and us too, I guess!
Why the reference to zen? Go to ragam-talam's latest post in the current Ramblings on God thread...
'have to be' doesn't make zen does it?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 19 Jul 2008, 02:48

This has been followed in Music Academy for a lo..........ng time (even during the "golden" years - first half of 20th century - 1930s etc.)

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2008, 03:58

Yes, Arun. Good in some ways, but the performers changed their lists once in a while, and it is done to this day. It is like a hasta bhUshaNam for some in the audience, like a shawl. As children, we found it to be handy when a concert was boring, and we could savor the names of rAgAs or chuckle as to how funny or odd they sounded.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 19 Jul 2008, 12:13

Nothing wrong with planning the kritis/ragas to present, IMHO, such planning shows that the artiste cares for both for the music and the rasika and wants to elevate the quality of the concert. I don't think this planning takes anything away from the spontaneity or creativity - the focus is not on simply repeating what was rehearsed previously, it is actually on not repeating what was performed earlier by the same on another artiste at the same location.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 19 Jul 2008, 12:28

In this context, there was an interview of BMK a week back in Shruthi, where he said he sings RTPs only rarely. Becuase according to him, a Pallavi is meant to be spontaneous and there is no point in rehearsing a Pallavi and informing the accompanists and then presenting it. He said that was not the purpose of a Pallavi. I agree with him. Of course, it would be good if the artiste does not repeat the same song list presented by him/different artiste at the same venue. But that does not mean he/she should plan everything from the Varnam to the Thillana. He/she can simply avoid those Ragams/Krithis. Yes, planning has come to a point where even an Alapanai and Swarams by an artiste are more or less the same day in and day out. Its like they have set patterns. And that to me definitely takes off the creativity. Of course, there are exceptions. But the trend for lesser Manodharmam (unplanned - its quite strange that it has to be specified 'unplanned' Manodharmam, but its fast becoming a fact these days) is more pronounced these days.
Sathej

appu · Post by **appu** » 19 Jul 2008, 17:29

In the past, duting the time of MMI, SSI, MDR and even earlier it used to be that artistes had the liberty of singing for extended lengths of time. Now with the fast paced life style and work schedule, it is warranted for an artiste to perform a Kachidam and a churukam concert. This of course forces a certain amount of planning in the concert including how long a alapanai needs to be sung or where swara kalpana need to be rendered. Inevitably this takes away the mystery of manodharma. I think the burden rests as much on the audience as the artiste. If the rasika can tolerate a lengthy concert the artiste will perform with manodharma, as the mind can only memorize these many things.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 19 Jul 2008, 22:41

ragam-talam wrote:Of late I have noticed a trend amongst some artistes to pre-plan their kutcheris to the nth degree. To me, this takes away from the essential beauty of a CM concert.
At this rate, there may come a day when we have pre-printed listings of concert items distributed/published ahead of the concert! (similar to for western classical concerts)
Or has that day already arrived?

My personal view is that planning is extremely essential for a succesful concert and I dont think it does in any way affect the beauty of the kutcheri nor does it place fetters on the manodharma of the artist for which there is ample scope.

MA is probably the only place which insists on program lists, which I agree is something which needs to be reviewed and possibly dispensed with.

The below link features an article by the late Sulochana Pattabhiram which also talks about Sri Lalgudi's meticulous planning for his concerts.

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2004/09/17/stor ... 800300.htm

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 19 Jul 2008, 22:59

cienu wrote:MA is probably the only place which insists on program lists, which I agree is something which needs to be reviewed and possibly dispensed with.

Don't think the case has been made to dispense with it.

The below link features an article by the late Sulochana Pattabhiram which also talks about Sri Lalgudi's meticulous planning for his concerts.

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2004/09/17/stor ... 800300.htm

Great article to support (y)our premise! Creativity is more important that Spontaneity.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 20 Jul 2008, 00:31

I have been personally present when LGJ& Dwaram meticulously practised a new innovation before they left for concerts.....Also reg the views on Pallavi of BMK referred to above there was a famous instance of a great veena vidwan whose genius is being discovered by some in another thread : He used to have a series of R.T.P.'S as main menu in which he did not tell the accompanying artists of very complicated pallavis he laboriously constructed over several cycles+ change in nadais+ speeds etc & played it only once; The accompanyng artists obviously could not repeat them & he felt proud- he was quite arrogant-; So the list of mridangists went up the ladder; When the the great Kaliyuga Nandi PMI himself !was the accompanist; It was more like a Heavy Weight Championship bout: The Pallavi started & the famous vidwan played his pallavi with 8 cycles as a unit in all possible complexities he had conjured up- of course not telling the accompanists- & PMI REPEATED EVERYTHING INSTANTANEOUSLY PERFECTLY! The artist was so shocked he could not continue as he had not anticipated this sequence of events. PMI in a VERY VERY RARE OCCURANCE took the mike & said it would have been nice if the Pallavi had been discussed before as the accompanists could do a better job.. Alathur Bros used to discuss the Pallavi they were going to sing in the conceret before the concert began; They were SO GRACIOUS THEY EVEN ACCEPTED A BRILLIANT SUGGESTION OF LGJ.. I feel very fortunate to have witnessed GREATNESS at various levels.......REG M.A. Program lists, one artist who was upset with a particular critic- while praised by many was also considered close to "yellow journalism" by the discerning few- observed that the famous critic left half way thru' the concert & duly changed & deviated from the printed list- got caught reviewing songs that the artist did not perform!......
BMK whom I have heard from his age TEN is such a genius & so perfect an artist he is unlikely to know or notice the low level stuff that happens! He is in the Stratosphere of our music! his observations are true for persons who are TRUE Rasikas. vkv

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 20 Jul 2008, 01:00

I wish to conclude with the one & only Mali who inprovised on the spot but EXPLAINED what he came up to the accompanists as well as the audience!......Nostalgic but memorable, unequalled & true......The one person today I can relate to this level of innovation & brilliance today is Chitraveena Ravikiran....vkv

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 Jul 2008, 08:55

I think we've discussed this issue in another thread before. I definitely agree that meticulous preparation is necessary for a concert to succeed, even if it means rehearsing manodharmam (especially with current artistes exploring rarer ragas. On one of Sanjay's podcasts in his blog, he emphasises the need to vigorously practise singing rare ragas in order to succeed in performing them on stage). I also do not doubt for a moment that what transpires on stage is not totally rehearsed; there will invariably be an on-the-moment flourish, a raga phrase instantaneously inserted as the singer sees fit, etc. Of course, the major phrases of the alapana, the korvais in the swara passages may be exactly as he/she has practised, but I believe there is always an element of impromptu creativity in any concert. There is also always the possibility of extensive unplanned manodharmam falling flat on its face and failing, and I think neither the artiste nor the audience is generally accomodative of such a denouement (although some rasikas in this site say they would rather listen to such spur-of-the-moment manodharmam even if it means sacrificing aesthetics).

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 20 Jul 2008, 09:47

Well, as regards the accompanists being aware or not, of complicated Pallavis or any other innovative Manodharmam, BMK actually meant even the vocalist ought not to be aware of it and rehearse it. So the question of accompanists being let down does not arise. At a felicitation organised recently for Shri Palani Subramania Pillai (if my memory is right). BMK said he once sang Mukhari Alapanai for about 20 min intending to sing Entha Ninne and Shri Palani Subramania Pillai asked him to sing a Pallavi. He immediately coined a Pallavi in Sankeerna Nadai with Sahithyam Entha Ninne.... and sang it on stage. He even sang a few words of the Pallavi on that day.

And yes, I, for one, prefer to hear 'unrehearsed' Manodharmam even if it means sacrificing some aesthetics. Again aesthetics is a subjective word

As for rare Ragams, yes, all those can be planned. Of course, I don't think an artiste can come just like that and sing a rare Ragam for a long stretch (there might be exceptional geniuses). But planning an entire concert(sometimes even Manodharmam aspects like Swarams are pre-set) is what robs the concert of most of its charm.

Sathej

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 25 Jul 2008, 02:26

One artiste who sings with the abandon, passion, creativity and spontaneity that behooves a good musician is Shri TNS.