Abheri ragam

bhuvanakannan · Post by **bhuvanakannan** » 28 May 2008, 22:36

Hi,
Abheri ragam dhaivatham prayogam has changed to sudhha dhaivatham. I have been playing with chadusra dhaivatham all these years. It will be greatly appreciated if anyone has audio of changed version for Bajare manasa, Nagumomu so I can hear that and learn.
Thanks,
B

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 28 May 2008, 22:39

bhuvanakannan wrote:Hi,
Abheri ragam dhaivatham prayogam has changed to sudhha dhaivatham. I have been playing with chadusra dhaivatham all these years. It will be greatly appreciated if anyone has audio of changed version for Bajare manasa, Nagumomu so I can hear that and learn.
Thanks,
B

I don't believe 'bhajarE mAnasa' is ever sung with shuddha dhaivata.

(I am willing to change my opinion if there is some proof

)

-Ramakriya

bhuvanakannan · Post by **bhuvanakannan** » 28 May 2008, 23:30

Hi,
I haven't heard in sudhhadhaivatham too. But I heard that Abheri has sudhha Dhaivatha proyogam. If so, I need a audio link to listen. Please correct me if Iam wrong.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 29 May 2008, 06:17

If you want to hear AbhEri with Suddha dhaivatam (D1), it may be easier to find a rendition vINAbhEri (dIkshitar) - i believe that one is ALWAYS rendered with D1. Also there is a pApanAsam sivan krithi that Sanjay sings in abhEri with D1. I cant remember the name of the krithi and whether others sing it with D2 or not.

Arun

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 29 May 2008, 12:05

The krithi is kandA vandaruL. It is [as far as I have heard] sung with D1.

bhuvanakannan · Post by **bhuvanakannan** » 29 May 2008, 15:37

Just want to clarify.
Is it ok to continue singing Bajare Manasa, Nagumomu with D2 or should I sing with D1 in concert.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 29 May 2008, 16:44

D2 for bhajarE mAnasa is correct. Please do try to sing nagumOmu correctly with D1. You will be one of the few who take the trouble to do so. All the best for your concert and we would love to hear your music if possible!

Mahalakshmi · Post by **Mahalakshmi** » 29 May 2008, 21:37

Dikshitar's Abheri is rendered more like a janya of 20th mela, with D1.

S G2 M1 P N2 S - S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S (popular one is same scale but with D2).

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 08 Jun 2008, 18:53

You will find 'pittan enRAlum avan pEyanenRAlum' in D1 by Sudha Raghunathan.

nagumOmu was composed with D1, I heard. But I think it has changed in other ways than just the change to D2, because to my ears it will sound horrible if we blindly replace all D2s with D1s in the song. bhajare mAnasa might sound better, though I don't know what it was composed with.

Note that the rAga called karnAtaka dEvagAndhAri (and bhImplAs) has D2, and the mUrcana
S G2 M1 P N2 S - S N2 D2 P M1 G2 R2 S
eppaDi pADinArO has been composed in this rAga.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 08 Jun 2008, 21:57

Dikshitar's Abheri is the real Abheri. This one with D2 being called Abheri is a mistake that continues to be practiced. Should be called karnatakadevagandari (devagandaram) - but then that would have made the change in nagumOmu (in first half of 20th century) perhaps harder to sell may be

;) - Strangely, it was easier (and less traumatic) to simply change the raga itself than change the raga of a tyAgarAja song - it seems

;)

BTW dIkshitar was quite clear about the difference. Both vInAbhEri (AbhEri) and pancAshatpITa rUpiNi (dEvagAndAram) have raga mudras in them.

Arun

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jun 2008, 22:07

There is a film song 'SingaravElanE dEvA' from konjum salangai I think. What ragam is that song in? Abheri, Bheemplas, karnataka devagandhari? There is a nathswaram rendering of Karikurichi in the song.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Jun 2008, 23:54

AbhEri I think, and so is the famous 'kaNNODu kANbadellAm' by Nityashree from the movie Jeans.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 11 Jun 2008, 07:21

These songs use catuSruti dhaivatam, though.

I wonder what are the other differences between AbhEri and karnATaka dEvagAndhAri, though? In other words, how can we show which we are singing or playing without pointing out the dhaivatam.

One more thing â€” is karnATaka dEvagAndhAri supposed to be a bit slower, like dEvagAndhAri vs Arabhi?

Jigyaasa · Post by **Jigyaasa** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:00

rshankar wrote:AbhEri I think, and so is the famous 'kaNNODu kANbadellAm' by Nityashree from the movie Jeans.

Aren't these in karnATaka dEvagAndhAri?! AbhEri is the rAga of kandA vandaruL and vINAbhEri... Seems quite clear from the discussion above...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jun 2008, 19:36

If it is 'kandA vandaruL taralAgAdA--isn't it in Jonpuri?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 11 Jun 2008, 21:11

It is by P.Sivan and in AbhEri.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 11 Jun 2008, 23:59

srikant1987 wrote:I wonder what are the other differences between AbhEri and karnATaka dEvagAndhAri, though? In other words, how can we show which we are singing or playing without pointing out the dhaivatam.

I presume you mean AbhEri with D1? Although I cannot quantify enough, I would guess that it will have some effect on the gamakas on ni - the "affected" neighboring swara (pa is the other one).

is karnATaka dEvagAndhAri supposed to be a bit slower, like dEvagAndhAri vs Arabhi?

Not 100% sure but I do not think there is any prescription like that. The name similarity does not have any significance.

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Jun 2008, 01:37

I think it is apt to call the rAga of panchA shaTpITha rUpiNi as dEvagAndhAra (as indicated in the rAga mudre in the composition), or dEvagAndhAram. There would be two distinct rAgas dEvagAndhAra, and one dEvagAndhAri

The prefix is not needed, IMO.

-Ramakriya

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Jun 2008, 06:42

Arun, I think srikant's question is about Abheri with D2 which makes it same as KDG but if there is a difference in the manner of bringing out the raga swaroopa, then they can be called different ragas ( in the same manner as DG and Arabhi )..

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Jun 2008, 07:35

vk - i thought so too but he said "without pointing out the dhaivatam" - and I thought if we are comparing KDG with Abheri(D2), why would we point at the dhaivatam as a differentiator

In any case, for difference between KDG and Abheri (D2), the # of known krithis that were composed intentionally in KDG (as opposed to Abheri (D2)) is very small - maybe just that 1. But IMO if the raga was given a chance to evolve under that name, it would have evolved to be the same as Abheri (D2).

Arun

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 12 Jun 2008, 09:21

Is there any rendition of any keerthana is Abheri available with both dhaivatams? I mean same keerthana - one version with suddha dhaivatam and one version with chatustruti dhaivatam...

Coolji - need your help!!!!!

-hari

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 12 Jun 2008, 12:36

manasu lOni marmulu although in hindola is sung in two different styles/ is it by changing the dhaivatam ?? pl clarify ?

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 12 Jun 2008, 14:44

I don't understand how Vasanthakokilam's and Arun K's interpretations of my questions differ. But ... I'll rephrase and ask again. Suppose we are allowed only the range PNSGMP â€” PMGRSN, can we point out if we are singing KDG or Abheri? Here, I mean Abheri proper, with D1. For example (hypothetically) maybe there's a dATu prayOgam SMGRS which only one rAgam allows and not the other?

But Arun K's attempt at answering my question kind of shakes the question itself. My defence is ... I was looking for phrases, actually ... but yes, the change between Abheri proper and KDG will change not just the dhaivatam alone but also shrutis contained in an ornamented N.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Jun 2008, 16:34

manjunath - yes the two versions differ in dhaivatam. The hindolam one is D1, and the other one is D2 - called varamu.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Jun 2008, 16:58

All - here you go - http://www.sendspace.com/file/qjbsf0 . This should go way beyond the call as it is a lecdem+rendition of nagumOmu with D1 by Smt. Vedavalli. This should provide insight to other questions.

About how D1 to D2 change can affect raga swaroopa - one can also compare vasanta and lalita (although absence of pa affects the gamakas on the dhaivatam itself in both cases). And also the two rItigowlas (or today's rItigowla and nArirItgowla).

Arun

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 12 Jun 2008, 18:35

also like hindolam and varamu or sudhdh hndolam ,I suppose.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 12 Jun 2008, 18:50

Thanks for the Abheri upload Arun! The more sombre mood that the suddha dhaivatham creates is more apt for the meaning of the krithi where the Thyagaraja (or Vibheeshana) is seeking protection with Lord Rama.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Jun 2008, 01:13

Thanks Arun. I like Smt. Vedavalli's way of introducing the problem. Hesitant to lay the blame out of respect for the elders but at the same time not leaving any doubt about what she thinks about this issue. Excellent.

Ravi, after this discussion, you should call the Jeans Nithyasree song, KDG or Bhimplas but not Abheri. I am sure you will be corrected by others that it is Abheri since that is what even Nithyasri seemed to have mentioned in an interview but we have this thread and the lec-dem to back it up.

What is the difference between Bhimplas and KDG in the current CM context? Does it make sense to talk about if 'SingaravElanE dEvA' and the Jeans song are in KDG or Bhimplas, or that is just nit picking and pointless?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Jun 2008, 01:43

Thanks Arun for the lecdem on AbhEri..

This is what I feel after hearing nagumOmu with D1..

Even after replacing D2 with D1, the general feel of the prayogas of this kriti are more closer to MD's dEvagAndhAram kritis which offcourse has D2
MD's AbhEri in vInAbhEri sounds quite different from nagomOmu -

So it is not just replacing D1 with D2, there is more to it.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 02:04

suji - indeed. Actually as I now see the SSP, something very important caught by eye

The aro/avaro of AbhEri is given as
S M G M P P S S
S N D1 P M G R S

(surprise, surprise isnt it? I mean I wonder how many of us tacitly assumed that the D1 Abheri would simply be S G M P N S | S N D1 P M G R S! I certainly did.

SD explicitly says that lakshanam slokam says nishada varjyam. This rules out p-n-s which you will find in abundance in D2-Abheri (and as well as the D1 rendition of nagumOmu above). SD mentions that "although the lakshana slokam does not say risabha and dhaitava varjyam or gandhara vakram, as per pUrvAcharyAs, the Aro is S M G M P P S S (i.e. besides no ni, there is no ri and da, and there is vakra ga).

So this AbhEri that MD follows to a tee in vINabEri (as per notations SSP) is not really the straightforward replacement of D2 to D1 in KDG. It is more complex, more involved, and more "restrictive" (i.e not as much a scalar interpretation).

However n` s does occur in the lakshana gitam of venkatamakhi as well as vINAbhEri and so I am sure how that is allowed by above structure. Basically n` - g is also allowed. So its not like one cannot ascend from ni. But I guess the main import is that p-n-s is disallowed - you instead see p-S (so perhaps s m g m p p S S n S is a better representation?).

I believe this difference is the main contributor to the different flavor you get with vINAbhEri. The p-n-S is quite an important part of KDG/D2-AbhEri (and also even in that D1 version I posted above).

Another disallowed phrase is s g m (you can have s g r, i.e. after s-g one can only descend. From sa - to pa, one must go s-m-g-m-p as implied by vakra. IIRC, s-g-m is quite common in KDG.D2-Abheri, Bhimplas etc.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 02:07

Note that "p p S S" in SSP doesnt necessarily mandate jhaNTa prayoga every time. I think it means elongated also (?)

BTW the notations for vINAbEri in SSP are very short. Only one sangati per line and it only has a pallavi and an anupallavi (And one ciTTa swaram) - total song is just 7 cycles of Adi.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Jun 2008, 02:31

Nice investigation and explanation Arun!

I was going to try my "hand" on these to ragas to see the difference. You got the right source to explain what I have been thinking about MD's AbhEri.

The slip from N to D1 is tough as explained in the demo. Happens in NarirItigoula too!.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 02:39

N-D1 indeed seems tough and slippery here but strange that no one has a problem with it bhairavi (in spite of the other da) and many other well known ragas (say tODi janyas, bhairavi alikes like mukhari, also hindolam.

If the D1 got morphed to D2 because of trouble doing N2-D1, I wonder how bhairavi retained its D1 in spite of an "inside attack" by D2

Arun

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 13 Jun 2008, 03:51

I'm not sold (respectfully!) on Smt. Vedavalli's suggestion that D1 morphed into D2 because it is "easier" for the voice to do that. She herself went on to sing it with equal ease with D1. Therefore any perceived "difficulty" may only be due to preconditioning - everyone has heard or learnt Nagumo with D2. Forget that it's Abheri or that it's Nagumo and the voice will encounter no difficulty in singing it with D1. BTW I did not encounter any difficulty singing a snatch with D1

.

So the morphing may have occured due to:

1) There's a far greater popular/sentimental/melodramatic appeal to the D2-based raga (call it whatever you wish bhimplas, kdvg, etc..)
2) From a lakshana perspective, there's an appealing overall symmetry when D2 is used. Both arohana and avarohana are symmetric about P with lots of vadi-samvadi relationships.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 04:09

I would guess that it may have to do more with naTabhairavi janyas that use atleast G2, D1, M1 and N2 (and no bashanga like bhairavi, anandabhairavi) being relatively "bland". And that is euphemism for not the most interesting flavor

! This is compared to say kharaharapriya here or even more sombre melas like MMG, tODI etc.

Sure there are exceptions like Saramati but in general you take the real AbHEri, naTabhairavi itself nArirItigowLa, mArgahinDOLam, jayantastri, gopikAvasantam, hindolavasantam - they all have that "toned down" feel. Of course I still like them (particularly hindolavasantam) - but they dont exactly jump out and grip you always. I guess I am biased

I think naTabhairavi generally gets the short end of the stick because of this

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 05:20

This different aro/avaro structure in SSP and the notations of vINAbhEri in SSP adhering to that intrigued me. So I checked my references. Sure enough earlier texts that give swara sancharams and muduvEnkaTamakhi all seem to indicate p p s s (i.e. no p n s). I also see s m g m p (rather than s g m). But texts starting from sangrahaCUDAmaNi (the sampoorna mela authority - and what tyAgarAja adhered to) and later mention the more straightforward s g m p n s - s n d p m g r s.

So I would say that simply saying there *is* only one abhERi with D1 is also not quite correct and would not do justice. Even here, there are 2 distinctly different versions of D1-AbhEri: the dIkshitar school version (based on muddu vEnkaTakamakhi) and the tyAgarAja school version (based on sangrahacUDAmaNi). To equate the two would be glossing over a lot of differences which are not subtle - the difference in structure is quite wide. Considering we differentiate much much closer ragas like durbAr/nAyaki bhairavi/mAnji Arabhi/dEvagAndhAri, and provide them a separate identity, it is indeed unfortunate that abhEri(D1) got short changed on multiple fronts - dare I say starting with sangrahaCUDAmaNi.

I am assuming kandA vandaruL is more along the sangrahaCUDAmaNi version (?)

In any case, it would be ideal if 2 different names were chosen between kandA vandaruL, nagumOmu (D1), ninnuvinA marigalada (SS - Smt. Vedavalli sings it with D1 too) vs. the AbhEri of MD.

May I suggest (just for the sake of it

)

vINAbhEri: suddha AbhEri (i..e prefix implying older like in some other ragas)
kandA vandaruL: AbhEri
D2-AbhEri - KDG or dEvagAndAram.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Jun 2008, 05:54

Arun, you have added a lot of clarity to the issue. Thanks. To complete the list,

>kandA vandaruL, D1-Nagumomu: AbhEri

Also, I think Smt. Vedavalli's point about the difficulty with D1 is specific to that sangathi. Later on she says in another place, even D2 musicians sing it with D1. Anyway, that is a minor part of the lec-dem, speculating about how the change might have come about. I did not know that the change from D1 to D2 is so recent.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Jun 2008, 22:41

for those interested, you can listen to the following renditions of vINAbhEri:
http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gurugu ... nathan.mp3 (Dr. S. Ramanathan)
http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/gurugu ... i--MSS.mp3 (MSS)

The Dr.SR version has kalpanaswaras to and he adheres to the exact aro/avaro in SSP. Both versions are quite close to SSP notations - I think Dr. SR's is almost exact (although no cittaswaras). The MSS version as a couple of extra sangatis. Also, in one place where there may be a p-n-s - but it could be my misjudgement as well. But overall both versions give an AbhEri which obviously is quite different from the nagumOmu version above.

You can also listen to following renditions of kandA vandaruL:
http://sangeethamshare.org/asokan/CARNA ... mpalas.mp3 (MLV).

I think the D1 occurs e.g. as dhIrga in pallavi itself: ta-ra-lA-gA-dA - p-n-da-p-m-pa.

This version has p-n-S (e.g. second variation of ta-ra-lA-gA-dA i.e. as p-n-da-p m p n-sa (i think), and also in anupallavi va-Lar-gu-hA = m-p-n-S ) - these places should give out a closer flavor to the D2-abheri (or the equally popular suddha-dhanyasi). You will not find this resemblance in MD's Abheri above - this making it an entirely different raga both in structure and flavor.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Jun 2008, 22:49

ramakriya wrote:I think it is apt to call the rAga of panchA shaTpITha rUpiNi as dEvagAndhAra (as indicated in the rAga mudre in the composition), or dEvagAndhAram. There would be two distinct rAgas dEvagAndhAra, and one dEvagAndhAri

The prefix is not needed, IMO.

-Ramakriya

It suprised me to find out that this rAga (i.e. D2-AbhEri today) was called dEvagAndhAri as well dEvagandhAra(m ) in old books. If I am not mistaken earliest reference is dEvagAndAri (although dEvagAndAra was also prevalent) - both names were used fairly significantly over time.

It surprised me even more to find out that muddu vEnkaTamakhi does *not* mention today's dEvagAndhAri and MD has composed in it. This is what I read from the reference I have (Hema Ramanathan's magnum opus - a fantastic reference). This would make for another raga of Govindacharya's system that MD composed in (i.e. besides that AbhOgi). It should be noted that SSP mentions today's devagAndhAri is known as "dESiya dEvagAndhAri" - although I think I couldnt find that name in early texts. My guess is this was to differentiate from the "older dEvagAndhAri" (i.e. dEvagAndhAra (KDG) which was also called dEvagAndhAri)

Arun

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 19 Jun 2008, 11:36

When these discussions are on, I would like to know the DIFFERENCE IN the Raga CHINTAMAN & the famous song Devi Brova Samayamidhe of Shyama Sastri sung in TWO DIFFERENT STYLES. Dr Balamurali has sung in one style whereas KVN & Smt MSS have sung in another style. I think CHINTAMANI is a janya of Shanmukhapriya, If I am not wrong.

Jigyaasa · Post by **Jigyaasa** » 19 Jun 2008, 13:45

arunk wrote:I would guess that it may have to do more with naTabhairavi janyas that use atleast G2, D1, M1 and N2 (and no bashanga like bhairavi, anandabhairavi) being relatively "bland". And that is euphemism for not the most interesting flavor ! This is compared to say kharaharapriya here or even more sombre melas like MMG, tODI etc.

Sure there are exceptions like Saramati but in general you take the real AbHEri, naTabhairavi itself nArirItigowLa, mArgahinDOLam, jayantastri, gopikAvasantam, hindolavasantam - they all have that "toned down" feel. Of course I still like them (particularly hindolavasantam) - but they dont exactly jump out and grip you always. I guess I am biased

I think naTabhairavi generally gets the short end of the stick because of this

Arun

I beg to differ... No doubt bhImplAs/kdvg is winsome, I think naTabhairavI and co. are gripping on account of the emotion the dhaivatam infuses... Dunno how to express it... A sense of yearning or melancholy probably...

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 19 Jun 2008, 22:26

arunk wrote:It suprised me to find out that this rAga (i.e. D2-AbhEri today) was called dEvagAndhAri as well dEvagandhAra(m ) in old books. If I am not mistaken earliest reference is dEvagAndAri (although dEvagAndAra was also prevalent) - both names were used fairly significantly over time.

It surprised me even more to find out that muddu vEnkaTamakhi does *not* mention today's dEvagAndhAri and MD has composed in it. This is what I read from the reference I have (Hema Ramanathan's magnum opus - a fantastic reference). This would make for another raga of Govindacharya's system that MD composed in (i.e. besides that AbhOgi). It should be noted that SSP mentions today's devagAndhAri is known as "dESiya dEvagAndhAri" - although I think I couldnt find that name in early texts. My guess is this was to differentiate from the "older dEvagAndhAri" (i.e. dEvagAndhAra (KDG) which was also called dEvagAndhAri)

Arun

Arun, do you have the dates on the names dEvagAndhAra and dEvagAndhAri - I do not have the references handy.

For dEvagAndhAra - the rAga name appears in one of SripadarAya's (~1400- 1500 AD) dEvaranAma.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jun 2008, 05:58

dEvagAndhAra - rAgamAla - puNDarIkaviTThala - 1576 (simply says sampurna)
dEvagAndhAra - rasakaumudi - SrIkAntha - 1575 (simply says sampurna)
dEvagAndhAri - SangIta sudha - gOvindadIkshita - 1614 (not much direct swara info)
dEvagAndhAri - CDP - vEnkaTamakhin - circa 1620 (not much direct swara info)
dEvagAndhAra - anUpasangItaratnAkara - bhAvabhaTTa - 17th-18th century
dEvagAndhAri - rAgalakshaNamu - SahAji - 1684-1711 swara sanchari given similar to KDG
dEvagAndhAra - sangItasArAmrtA - tulAja - 1729-1735 - swara sanchari given similar to KDG
...

In sangrahaCUDAmaNi it is given as KDG. But even after that in sangItasArasangrahamu by tiruvENKatakavi (1800) it appears as dEvagAndhAri

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jun 2008, 06:39

arunk wrote:dEvagAndhAra - rAgamAla - puNDarIkaviTThala - 1576 (simply says sampurna)
dEvagAndhAra - rasakaumudi - SrIkAntha - 1575 (simply says sampurna)
dEvagAndhAri - SangIta sudha - gOvindadIkshita - 1614 (not much direct swara info)
dEvagAndhAri - CDP - vEnkaTamakhin - circa 1620 (not much direct swara info)
dEvagAndhAra - anUpasangItaratnAkara - bhAvabhaTTa - 17th-18th century
dEvagAndhAri - rAgalakshaNamu - SahAji - 1684-1711 swara sanchari given similar to KDG
dEvagAndhAra - sangItasArAmrtA - tulAja - 1729-1735 - swara sanchari given similar to KDG
...

In sangrahaCUDAmaNi it is given as KDG. But even after that in sangItasArasangrahamu by tiruvENKatakavi (1800) it appears as dEvagAndhAri

Arun

Thanks Arun for the time line up - Are you sure Sangraha CUDamaNi says it as "karnATaka" dEvagAndhAri - And BTW, have you seen a copy of this ever? I really want to see it once ( for it has changed the music scene forever!)

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jun 2008, 08:18

ramakriya - sorry it says karNATadEvagAndhAri (karNATa - not karnATaka) - it also lists it under kIravANi mELa - says omits ri on ascent: sa ga ma. pa ma pa. dha. pa. ma ga ri. sa. ni sa. ni sa. (dont know what the dots mean)

I only have references (includes Slokas) to it from Hema Ramanathan's reference.

Arun

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 20 Jun 2008, 14:50

vs_manjunath wrote:When these discussions are on, I would like to know the DIFFERENCE IN the Raga CHINTAMAN & the famous song Devi Brova Samayamidhe of Shyama Sastri sung in TWO DIFFERENT STYLES. Dr Balamurali has sung in one style whereas KVN & Smt MSS have sung in another style. I think CHINTAMANI is a janya of Shanmukhapriya, If I am not wrong.

arun- I am expecting an answer from you/other rasikas

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 20 Jun 2008, 17:02

see http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2274 for a previous discussion on Chintamani

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 20 Jun 2008, 18:33

mohan-thanks for this link.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 24 Jun 2008, 21:42

nE pogada guntE- Thaygaraja Song is also sung in two Ragas. Shubha Panthu Varali as well as in Varali. Ariyakudi has sung in Varali whereas Balamurali has sung in Shubha Pantu Varali. Any comments from rasikas please.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 24 Jun 2008, 22:41

In The Spritual Heritage of Tyagaraja, C.Ramanujachari has listed it under dEshikatODi and P.Sambamurti, in Kirtama Sagaram, has listed janAvaLi as the raga. Don't know if anyone has rendered the song in these two ragas.