Cleveland Aradhana 2008 Discussions

shanks · Post by **shanks** » 25 Mar 2008, 22:36

May be a good idea to move this to another thread.

mri_fan wrote:1) the children in the concert are not at the level of given concerts...not at all...some of them may have given some, but none of them have ever given concerts at Cleveland besides the SS group. They are from the pool of students who have competed before, so there's no reason to thing they shouldn't be allowed to compete again.

Baffles me as to why their second concert was ticketed - we have to pay to listen to kids who are not up to the mark ::rolleyes:

The fact that they have been trained by musicians in india for an extended length of time that puts them in a different bracket. Rather than assuming the status quo approach, it is only appropriate for the committee members to review their competition policies.

mri_fan wrote:2 ) This is a valid criticism that happened last year...you can dig up previous threads about it. It remains as a problem that the committees may want to try to address, but it's very difficult to do so.

Difficult, but not an insolvable problem - the context relates to point 1.

mri_fan wrote:3) Why should the girl who won the concert competition be barred from further competition? As I see it, she has every right to continue competing in other categories (she hasn't won 1st place in those categories) and it's common for some people who win the same prize in multiple years.

Even by the rules published on their site, she should not have been in the competition. Here is the snip from their site "People who will be performing a concert in this Aradhana, or who have performed a concert in a previous Cleveland Aradhana are not eligible to participate in the competition"
Strangely, she even participated in the 'concert' competition this year too. Surely, the organizers were sleeping in not following their published rules.

mri_fan wrote:4) I doubt that GJR has the time to learn exactly who is Anuradha Sridhar's students...but that's really sort of an inevitability. Mridangam students who compete have often taken lessons from Raja Rao sir, or Dorai sir, etc. Violin students who compete also may have taken lessons from some of the judges, but we must have faith that judges will base on music.

Let me give you an example.

Recently, GJR was the judge for a student in the senior violin category who had taken lessons for him. The student competed in Kriti, in which he got 3, ragam (in which he got third and the other participant got second, with no first) and pallavi (he was the only student, and he didn't win anything in that category). doesn't seem too biased to me...

Even in the city level competitions, the judges make it a point to ensure to check on these factors to ensure that there is not even a perception of any bias. Whether GJR knew or did not, it is organizer's responsibility to address this. After all Anuradha Sridhar was awarded the best teacher award this year and if the committee claims to be unaware of her students participating, that is hog wash.

Whether there was bias or not is immaterial - it is the perception that counts; as they say perception is reality.

mri_fan wrote:5) Although that family may have some world record they got from a website, he has not played in a regular concert at cleveland, which I understand is the only factor which can disqualify you.

Can anything be stranger than the CD's of this kid being sold in front of the auditorium and then you have the kid competing.

mri_fan wrote:Cleveland's competition is incredibly difficult to pull off, considering how hard the students who compete work. There will always be some disgruntled participants, but that is an inevitability. There is always room for improvement, but understand the Herculean effort it takes to pull of 10 days of world-class music.

Organizing any competition is not an easy task by any means. The room for improvement unfortunately is the size of the university campus - if you ask me they have chosen the path of least resistance in running the competition. I will post more comments when i get some time later this week.

Shanks

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Mar 2008, 22:53

You may like to discuss (?political) issues regarding the Aradhana, competitions etc in this thread rather than clutter the other threads which may highlight programs general issues as well as review of the programs. Thanks

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Mar 2008, 02:51

I would love to discuss the ECONOMICS of conducting these functions & have enough data & experience to discuss in detail how we can make something like this more acceptable to those who are not happy. Appreciate any inputs& ideas how we can relieve the burden on the few. vkv

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 05:08

I would like to hear from the parents of the competition-participants as to how they motivated their kids to get interested in CM at the outset and then put in the significant amount of time to practice. There are too many other distractions and it would help a lot of other parents to know how to motivate their kids. As a followup it will be nice to know how many of the kids drop-out from CM/dance as they grow up. That would be an indication of parental coercion and not a real motivation. Finally it will be nice to know the economics of training these kids.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 26 Mar 2008, 05:35

cmlover: Would you mind if I give my take on your question even though am a child who is currently learning, and not a student?

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 26 Mar 2008, 05:58

Learning, but not a student? Be that as it may, please do give your take. I am sure Cmlover will have no issues with that.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 06:08

By all means. It will help everybody!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Mar 2008, 07:01

I suppose what he is saying is that he is not a student of any of the teachers who taught the kids who performed at Cleveland. Am I right, mkid?

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 26 Mar 2008, 09:03

Well what cmlover wrote that particularly caught my eye was "parents", so I was just wondering if he or she wouldn't mind if I gave my opinion as to how parents may have "motivated" their kids into getting interested in such a classical art as Carnatic music.

I am learning currently (the Mridangam as some of you may have guessed) from Rajshaker Attmakuri, and I did compete in the Cleveland Aradhana competition last year, however I decided not to compete this year, just watch.

To reply to the question, for me and what my parents have done, it seems as though it's just introducing the art to the children. Not to push them, and not to force them to learn, but just by taking them to concerts or dances at a somewhat early age just to give exposer. The rest is up to the child. I have been blessed with wonderful parents and a wonderful teacher who never pushed me or making me go to fast, but letting me take my own time and truly understand and appreciate mridangam rather than just playing it for the sake of bragging rights or whatever. It seems as though the more the parents push the child to excel in carnatic music, the more likely the child would want to continue doing whatever he or she would want to do in the future and the more likely he or she would want to quit. Yes when first starting off, parents should tell the kid to practice, should make them sit down everyday and practice singing or the violin or whatever for half an hour or an hour, but if the parent has to do that a year after the child started, then its obvious the child isn't too into whatever he or she may be doing and thus won't excel to his or her fullest. The kids who drop out of CM or Dance seem to be the kids who A) never wanted to start learning in the first place, but their parents made them, or B), ask to start, had fun doing what he or she was doing, but the parents kept pushing and pushing until they got sick of it.

From what I'm seeing nowadays, it seems as though we are teaching young children that quantity is more important than quality, which is just not correct. I was there during the Awards Ceremony, and saw kids getting 3 prizes and hearing people behind me say "wow, can you believe this girl, she just got her 3rd prize, sabash", the problem is, is that all 3 of her prizes would be either special or 3rd prize, while a kid who only competed in one category and got 1st prize gets no recognition, which is a real shame.

I'm not going to discuss the economics of training however because I leave that to my parents

I'm sorry for changing topics a little, I really hope it didn't offend anyone. I hope I somewhat answered your question.

I'm also sorry for making this such a long post, and I don't want this to be too controversial, this is just how I'm seeing things right now, all though I'm sure many of you more wiser posters can correct me where I have made errors.

thank you

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 26 Mar 2008, 12:50

There are lot of things you have written, I have no choice but to agree with you kid....when I was just eight years old, my parents pushed me to learn violin. On reflection, I can see why they did it. Because Easwaran anna had already performed his arangetram. Here I was, a member of the family, far far removed from music, behaving like a kind of Aurangazeb ! So, there they went, my sisters' pattu teacher can play violin too and so, two mangos in one stone...he could teach me violin...and so the logic went in that route. My mind was not on it....so even though I learnt for a good number of years, I never excelled. I continued to remain a very average player. But after all these years, some where in my 50s I started enjoying the music more and more. I have now taken up the violin once again with a lot of vigour and want to catch up on what I have lost.

Yes sir, you have a point there.....

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 20:00

Thanks mridangamkid !
Your experience is ideal. To have enlightened parents who are willing to spend time, cash and energy to motivate their kids in an artform which is unlikely to be financially rewarding later is indeed a boon. But the real motivation or the appreciation of the Art has to come from inside you. With competing interests like baseball, soap-operas on TV and playmates it is very difficult to get interested since CM has to be painfully learned with assiduous practice and it does not come naturally. Most parents do push their kids and the final results are disasterous until they reach middle ages when they come to understand the beauty of CM and rue their past indifference. In fact the motivating parents later were usually the earlier disgruntled children! In many cases winning 'a prize' (or prizes) in competition is used to goad the kids and I think that is the wrong approach. Love and appreciation of the beauty of the Art will only have a lasting effect. We still have not found the 'magic pill' for CM since the traditional training schedules are monotonous to say the least. Olden times 'bhakti' was used as motivation and we as children did believe that God will be pleased by our songs and stotras and one day will appear in person to grant our desires

Modern kids are too smart to be won over thus

Thanks for your story. Let us have more experiences narrated; both the success and failures!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 26 Mar 2008, 20:11

Great observation cml. We have three kinds of parents - "talk the talk" and "walk the talk" and "walk the walk". Children revolt again "talk the talk" once they have control over their life.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 20:24

I am concerned only when they 'baulk the talk' right away and 'mock' the parents

MKM · Post by **MKM** » 26 Mar 2008, 21:33

Since parents opinions were asked... i am mridangam kid's mother and I agree that our approach he represented is substantially correct. we have two boys ... the first one didn't care for CM too much. We allowed him to pursue his interest ( with quite some criticism from 'elders and well wishers' I must say). he has gained quite a wealth of knowledge about jazz and western classical music on his own and to my surprise he was interviewd on an FM station recently about the history and theory of jazz! Now he sees the similarities between CM and jazz and taking more interest in learning about CM.

Our second one on the contrary loved Mridangam the first time he saw it and has been with it ever since. I am glad that despite winning the first place in senior Mridangam and guruvayoor dorai trust award last year in Cleveland, he chose to not compete this year and that's his wish. Music is not just about winning.
I truly believe the BEST in kids will come out only if they are allowed some freedom... some failures and falls along with triumphs.
Just a mother's opinion.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 21:55

Many thanks! A very realistic scenario. it will be educational for many..
Could you also share a ball-bark figure on the cost, so it may be helpful for others ? (exclude travel costs if it included trips to India..)

MKM · Post by **MKM** » 26 Mar 2008, 23:11

We spent about $60/- a month for the last eight years. I think the benefits,( even if my son doesn't earn a penny through mridangam,) far out weigh the costs. It is no more than the cost of soccer camps, hockey camps etc that we have our kids in.

There were of course on and off competetion costs, trips etc. his India trips have just started last year.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Mar 2008, 23:23

Thanks again. That should give some idea to prospective parents! The expense is insignificant compared to the costs of training in WM or even HM where just one lesson would cost about $60 !

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 27 Mar 2008, 00:55

Our children growing up in the West typically live schizophrenic lives with their 'local' and 'Indian' activities kept in mutually exclusive, and watertight compartments. This certainly leads to stress and strain, and issues with making 'choices' about continuing or dropping an activity. So, in addition to what MKM has said (I agree 100% with what MK and MKM have said), I think it is very important for us as parents to work hard at helping these children integrate the art form into their life and treat it as a wholesome whole, rather than as unhealthy separates. Instead of having the art form exist in a vacuum (by that I mean something they practice/perform exclusively for an 'Indian' audience), it should become fully integrated into their lives - school, social activities etc. A bharatanatyam teacher we know routinely works with a local school every year to teach a semester of dance to the graduating class, and at the end of the semester the class puts up a show for the rest of the students. It all started with one of her students trying to integrate that part of her life with the rest! Another student used her arangETram to raise money that she donated to U Penn, and she is now a med student at U Penn years later! A student of mridangam could try to participate in the percussion section of the school band, and even try to play the mridangam. People (by that I mean teachers and school officials) are so open and appreciative of such non-traditional and new ideas that it would be criminal not to try. There is nothing like peer appreciation, or evoking awe among their peers in pushing children to give their very best! (Of course, it goes without saying that our opinion of their talents is not worth the breath we waste on it - after all, we are just parents, duh!

)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Mar 2008, 03:27

CML,
Thanks for posing the questions. The responses from mkid, from his sensible mother and from Ravi are valuable indeed.
We, as early settlers in the west had no facilities which offered our children classes in CM, HM or traditional dances. Now that they are aplenty, as Ravi points out, a holistic approach about life and learning is vital for children. Taking some of what they learn in the indian context back to the schools is also important.
Parents, whether in India, the US or in any other part of the world should try to practice a bit of the gospel of the gItA when it comes to competitions (the results don't matter--just do your thing, kid!). Any child who does very well in singing or dancing should make us proud as though they are our own.
This goes for the Little League and the rest of it too

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Mar 2008, 04:48

Well put Shankar/Arasi :
It is indeed a struggle for us to maintain our cultural identity in the West, let alone our Art forms. During some of our times folks come abroad to acquire education/accumulate some cash only to return to the mother land once the goals were achieved. Of late the scene has changed. Many of us are here to stay. As we say at Canada we create a cultural Mosaic than be a melting pot civilization. We cannot maintain our cultural identity without our Language and Art Forms. I am glad the opportunities are availble in most places these days. In that Cleveland Aradhana is a shining beacon that showcases our local talents. Hats off to VVS/VKV and others for the vision! There is need for more such activities in many other parts of these and other countries. This Forum should be used to announce and Highlight those activities globally. Let there be no bickerings about the inadequacies but let us accentuate the positive. Share the experiences and ideas and even 'Funds' if necessary. From Sydney to Cleveland is indeed a long haul! But before the end of the century CM will DV be interplanetary!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 27 Mar 2008, 06:15

Many of us are hereto stay because (1) Our children are brought up, educated and working in U.S. (2) once the cementing force in any family - parents - are called to heavens, our reasons to go to India is only limited to certain given occasions (3) we have to start our life all over again in India in case we decide to move there.

Why not carry our culture and passion in our pocket and unleash it wherever we go. We all have a great and glorious anticedents behind us and we are here to stay making a difference.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 27 Mar 2008, 06:39

I was an ABCD kid and am now a parent! My parents never pushed me into any extra-curricular activity. As arasi suggests there was little opportunity for me to learn music in Australia as a youngster (in the 70s and 80s). Somehow in my late teens I developed a passion for CM, pretty much on my own accord.

Today I am happy to be a teacher of CM. A number of my students were pushed into it by their parents, some dropped out due to other priorities while others have persisted and are turning out to be quite good performers. Further to what Rshankar says, tese kids are integrating CM with their broader activities. For example, a number of my students are taking part in a youth leadership scheme (Duke of Edinburgh awards) and have included achievement carnatic music as a life goal.

Like Arasi/CML say, it is heartening to see how many students are learning music these days. In the recent Sydney Thyagaraja festival, over 100 students participated. I sometimes wish that I had the opportunity to learn music at an earlier age. On the flip side, maybe if I learnt music early I may not have had the same inclination I have now!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Mar 2008, 07:41

I have noticed a diffidence among youngsters (adults too) about singing CM songs inpublic especially with an aalaapana and svara prastaaram. At best they will sing a short MD kriti or even a purandara and of course PSivan (mostly Tamils). It often happens during Navaratri which is the music season for all ! I never could understand why they hesitate singing a T kriti which are superb musically and for displaying their talents. I should also hear the other side from Telugus but I am sure everybody will concur that aalaapana and neravel/svaram will never be sung. It is not a question of time; but I think more a hesitation and the 'fear' that they will be ridiculed if they sing wrong. We should encourage folks especially beginners to sing CM in all its glory even if they make mistakes.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Mar 2008, 07:44

Inclination and passion, I would say, Mohan!
Though my son is not that knowledgeable in CM, he can appreciate it. He carries that gnAnam into jazz. No, he is not a performer but he has the gift to enjoy music...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 27 Mar 2008, 09:05

moderators, let me take off tangentially from the subject. thereis nothing wrong in the kids learning cm and trying to get a chance to perform in sabhas or public platforms. . but to think about their trying to learn bharatanatyam , spending thosands of dollars to the masters brought from India, getting costly bhartanatyam dresses. but unfortunately their tastebuds cannot be controlled, tasting all sort of junk food and a 15 year kid developing a body frame of nearly 80 kgs or more, asking for a chance to perform in India, gobilalitha

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 27 Mar 2008, 09:08

once again an injection of humour gobilalitha

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Mar 2008, 09:56

GBL
leaving the jokes aside, the leading complaint among kids growing up in NA is 'anorexia nervosa' !

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 27 Mar 2008, 09:58

MKM wrote:Our second one on the contrary loved Mridangam the first time he saw it and has been with it ever since. I am glad that despite winning the first place in senior Mridangam and guruvayoor dorai trust award last year in Cleveland, he chose to not compete this year and that's his wish. Music is not just about winning.
I truly believe the BEST in kids will come out only if they are allowed some freedom... some failures and falls along with triumphs.
Just a mother's opinion.

How nicely said.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 27 Mar 2008, 10:15

Thats my mom for you

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Mar 2008, 17:17

MK and MKM
both of you are lucky to have each other!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Mar 2008, 19:35

Indeed...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Mar 2008, 19:46

I am delighted&encouraged to find the responders in this forum addressing various issues that are relevent in a serious fashion. After the high of Cleveland is over I hope to raise various issues & problems that all of us face if these types of activities have to continue & prosper. I particularly agree with cmlover's asute observation reg. the LONG TERM hopes&prospects for globally highlighting all that's great in our culture thru' the fine arts medium. vkv

rangahome · Post by **rangahome** » 27 Mar 2008, 21:31

In one of his brief speeches at the aradhana this year, Shri. VVS briefly highlighted the "challenges" they face in organizing aradhana of grand scale.

(i) Visa denials for artists. Senior vidwans like Shri.RKS had to travel from bangalore thrice to US consulate to get the visa re-issued.

(ii) Uncertainty of visas leading to lack of proper planning for US-concert tours. Many artists (esp the bharatanatyam troupe) was unable to committ to programs across multiple US cities.

(iii) Cancellation of tours by some artists due to unforeseen circumstances.

(iv) This year, the cleveland state university informed the organizers 3 days prior to the aradhana that the main auditorium was unavailable. The organizers had to run around to find an alternate auditorium within CSU, and the sheer logistics of an alternate location was daunting.

May be, VKV can throw more light on these.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 27 Mar 2008, 21:36

Yes I heard about the Visa troubles. Dorai sir was telling me that it took until literally the last day for RKS sir, him, and many senior artists to get the Visa, which is why some of them had to take a later plane. Also there was the weather, I'm not sure exactly which plane, but the plane that had many artists including Babu sir (Dorai sir main disciple) had to stay in the airport for 24 hours because of weather conditions.

Its amazing how all this still went off smoothly even though all these troubles happened.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Mar 2008, 01:40

In one of his brief speeches at the aradhana this year, Shri. VVS briefly highlighted the "challenges" they face in organizing aradhana of grand scale..........

I am amazed he had energy left to make even a brief sprrch after all he had to go through! I was not there so I cannot address this....

(i) Visa denials for artists. Senior vidwans like Shri.RKS had to travel from bangalore thrice to US consulate to get the visa re-issued.

(ii) Uncertainty of visas leading to lack of proper planning for US-concert tours. Many artists (esp the bharatanatyam troupe) was unable to committ to programs across multiple US cities...........

To explain this part of the complication I will have to go into a very detailed & technical discussion about us visas; The complication for each artist was different & the fact that 200 "cine" artists had false documents and three of them were arrested by local police inside us consulate etc made it very difficult for every one else right away. It will take too long to explain the difficulties in each case and would require a two hour power point presentation on my part.....

So I request every one to please realise the organisers made superhuman efforts & the problems are par for course in arranging these tours. Most of the things happened the way they were supposed to....

(iii) Cancellation of tours by some artists due to unforeseen circumstances

This again varies from case to case & in some cases relate to the previous segment........Actually now a days things are far better than when I first organised the Lalgudi-Ramani-Raghavan tour in '71 by East-West Exchange. Please let me describe this as an example of things that can occur:

We had applied for Visa for Lalgudi&Ramani 3 months ahead of their arrival with a lawyer etc helping us ; We had reserved halls in different places (non-refundable deposits etc) & one week before their scheduled arrival we heard nothing from the authorities. Life was simple then & I was able to just take the elevator & went directly to the person who was in charge of their application. Of course my credentials with NASA etc helped; He said he wanted me to see the previous application; It was for the Beatles who were promised a million dollars+expenses for 4 concerts; Our offer was not even a thousand dollars for 25 concerts! The officer said either I was the most naive person or the biggest crook he had come across. I said I was a scientist trying to promote culture as a hobby & he has to decide which of the two I was. He looked at me, said you do not look like a crook & issued the visa on the spot. I can go on & on with other examples like these.....

(iv) This year, the cleveland state university informed the organizers 3 days prior to the aradhana that the main auditorium was unavailable. The organizers had to run around to find an alternate auditorium within CSU, and the sheer logistics of an alternate location was daunting

These kinds of things do happen; Actually when TVS-MC-TKM came to the concert hall in Chicago in '75 the whole building was closed & locked as someone had called & said the concert was cancelled; I was in NYC then & had to call all the south indians in chicago along with the organisers by telephone; We managed to reschedule the concert 3 hours late in the same hall. TVS sang for over 4 hours in one of his most memorable concerts!.......

May be, VKV can throw more light on these

I hope I threw some "light" on the vagaries & difficulties. VKV

Mod edit: Added quote tags around quoted texts for readability

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 28 Mar 2008, 01:50

Thanks for those stories Sri VKV,

that last line confused me for a bit, but then i saw it above!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 28 Mar 2008, 05:17

It was for the Beatles who were promised a million dollars+expenses for 4 concerts; Our offer was not even a thousand dollars for 25 concerts! The officer said either I was the most naive person or the biggest crook he had come across. I said I was a scientist trying to promote culture as a hobby & he has to decide which of the two I was. He looked at me, said you do not look like a crook & issued the visa on the spot. ....

That is quite possibly one of the funniest stories I have heard in a while....
Thanks for your informative, yet entertaining post.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Mar 2008, 06:57

Yes. VKV!
Big names, big bucks! Such early day experiences of people like you who love CM are worth relating. These remarkable collective experiences of you all led to other awesome happenings like the Cleveland ArAdhanA and nationwide interest in organizing concerts and events to keep CM going...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Mar 2008, 07:15

Thanks VKV
I agree completely with Arasi. These historical facts on the origin and travails of CM outside of India should be put on record for posterity. Truly those were the early seeds from which the mighty Clevlend Aradhana has sprouted and a few hundred other ones even in small cities across NA. I also would encourage Mohan to put on record as well as the history of the Sydney Aradhana. We appreciate you pioneers and when the time is ripe will honour you with appropriate awards for your sterling efforts in propagating CM globally. Keep writing in these columns the historical facts as you know and we would welcome VVS too to join us and enlighten us with his experiences as well as travails. You pioneers have won a few feet and globally we have still miles to go! And as path-breakers your stories will be the beacon lights for those CM enthusiasts who wish to follow your model elsewhere.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 28 Mar 2008, 08:20

I agree with cmlover that it would be useful to document the travails on CM.

Joseph Getter from Weslyn has written a thesis about Carnatic music in USA (see http://jgetter.web.wesleyan.edu/thesis.html for a synopsis).

Sydney Music Circle is celebrating its 25th year and had published an article about the history of music in Sydney. I will try and make this article available online.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Mar 2008, 08:58

I am encouraged by the kind expressions of all of you. As I had indicated before I am planning to arrange a meeting in Chennai probably right after the music season with several persons who can share their experiences of CM in North America; I can relate the history from 1959 when I moved to USA. I will try to persuade VVS to set aside time during next year's Cleveland Aradhana & give a historical account of the Cleveland Festival which is not only a critical musical success but also mind boggling from an organisational point of view......Let me conclude by relating a few interesting tit bits:
1) After a 4 hour concert by Veena Balachander in NYC near theater district we could not get any taxis-impossible to get them in Times Square Area when Broadway plays end- & I

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:14

(contd) I had to carry Umayalpuram Sivaraman's Mridangam on my shoulders- like the porter in Central Station- & we walked a mile to where they were staying!(1962)
2) After a divine Concert in Asia Society in 1966 in NYC by KVN (who was accompanied by Palghat Raghu-no violin!) I asked him how I can repay him at least in part he just said : Can you get some mango pickles to me soon!?. Of course I could do that & it strengthened a great long lasting frienship with a truly great person .
3) Of course the highlight was the standing ovation after MSS concluded her concert in UN General assembly when the whole world stood up as one & acknowledged the artist as well as the music from INDIA.
4) To conclude Lalgudi in reply to my invitation letter to tour North America in 1971 wrote back : I am sure you will do your best; llets not discuss any economics; lets just discuss how I can represent the best in our music BEST on my tour. (paraphrased)
Hope I am not being too nostalgic........vkv

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:21

vkv43034 wrote:Actually when TVS-MC-TKM came to the concert hall in Chicago in '75 the whole building was closed & locked as someone had called & said the concert was cancelled; I was in NYC then & had to call all the south indians in chicago along with the organisers by telephone; We managed to reschedule the concert 3 hours late in the same hall. TVS sang for over 4 hours in one of his most memorable concerts!.......

Indeed, what an awesome concert this was!!! amma rAvamma main with an inspiring tani in khaNDa cApu by Murthy Mama and then an RTP in kharaharapriyA. Just inspired music by a young TVS Sir brimming with his trademark enthusiasm.

CC · Post by CC » 28 Mar 2008, 10:41

mridangamkid wrote:Yes I heard about the Visa troubles. Dorai sir was telling me that it took until literally the last day for RKS sir, him, and many senior artists to get the Visa, which is why some of them had to take a later plane. Also there was the weather, I'm not sure exactly which plane, but the plane that had many artists including Babu sir (Dorai sir main disciple) had to stay in the airport for 24 hours because of weather conditions.

Its amazing how all this still went off smoothly even though all these troubles happened.

The cause of the problems with the visas were most likely due to the visa fraud by "artists" that was uncovered just as Carnatic musiciasns were trying to get visas for the Cleveland Aradhana.

US Consular employees are required to follow the rule book and they do that to the letter. So, there is no use blaming any person at the Consulate for these troubles.

Once the issue was elevated to senior officials in the Consulate, the issue was promptly resolved. However, the senior officials will NOT interfere in the normal day-to-day operations no matter what your emergency is, because the possibility exists that your visa petition might go through without their interference anyway. So, it takes a visa denial before you can raise the issue with the senior officials. That entails a loss of at least one day and that throws travel plans awry.

The very large number of visa applicants in all categories means that there is tremendous pressure on consular staff to make snap judgments about the bona fides of visa applicants. The slightest hesitation in answering a question could trigger suspicion. A person with a natural stutter might be thought to be evading answering a question. Once that impression is formed, it is hard to erase that. Hence, even an approved P-3 visa petition is no guarantee that you will get a visa just as a visa stamp on your passport is no guarantee that you will be actually allowed to enter the US once you land at a US airport.

Human errors occur all the time. The processed passports are returned to applicants by VSF Global Services, which has its office outside the consulate premises for security reasons. The consulate thought certain passports had been sent to VSF; VSF said that if those passports had not been picked up by 5 pm, they would not be held for pick-up the next day but would be couriered to their addresses. Thus, R S Ramakanth was waiting in Bangalore to pick up his and his mother's passport which were supposedly couriered, and R K Srikantan (whose visa was not issued yet; yeah, think about that: two out of three in a group get visas!) and his wife traveled to Madras by road and barely reached VSF in time to pick up his passport, except that 10 minutes after they had left Bangalore, the courier service (which had just opened for business for the day at that time) told Ramakanth there was nothing in the mail for him. There was no easy way now for Ramakanth to reach Madras before VSF closed. Fortunately, we had the forethought for Ramakanth to write up an authorization letter for VSF to hand over his passport to his father. Otherwise, we would not have got Ramakanth's passport in our hands the same day.

Only when R K Srikantan had all three passports in his hand, we could assume that they would be able to travel that night. R K Srikantan, his wife and their escort had their first meal of the day at 5 pm at Woodlands. Now, Ramakanth had to be flown into Madras, international tickets needed to be issued (which assumes that seats are available that night; which actually had proved extremely difficult just one week earlier) and everybody had to be taken to the airport. Sudharani Raghupathy who was escorting the three young dancers was told to pack some food in case the major delay in New York experienced some days earlier due to flight disruptions should happen again. We had to make sure they had dollars in hand for any emergency.

By the time the e-tickets arrived, it was 9:30 pm. They were all printed and handed over to the travelers. We could heave a sigh of relief when we were informed that everybody had reached the airport, Ramakanth who had been cooling heels in the airport had joined his parents, and that they were all issued boarding tickets. We could go to sleep at 12:30 am.

This scene had been repeated three times earlier with different artists and with slightly different circumstances. Every time, things were close to the wire; yet the whole Aradhana came together this year too and at the last moment, just like it does every year. But for some people sitting in the US, it is all just so easy. Why, they could have done a better job than what folks in Madras were doing. I have just one thing to tell you. Try asking for the U. S. Consul on the telephone in Madras and see what kind of laugh you get from the other end of the phone!

A gentleman named Anand showed up to meet with VKV; he volunteered to print address labels so that the printed invitations could be mailed within India for recipients. Except, the printing service printed them on plain paper instead of on address labels. Mr. Anand offered his next bit of help. He was going to laboriously cut those address labels from the A1 sheets of paper, apply glue to their back, stick them on envelopes, stuff the envelopes with the invitations and then mail them..for about 1,500 invitations! That, in his own words, was his tiny contribution to the Aradhana. That, and his prayers at the Tirupathi temple (which he was going to visit) for the success of the Aradhana.

We see little things like that all the time. It is the infectious enthusiasm of people like Mr. Anand, Bhargavi Ganesh, Mr. Sudhakar and Mr. Sekhar of SwathiSoft, and a host of others who have worked long and hard for no recompense that makes the Aradhana happen. Some even offered the use of their credit card in the absence of VVS so that local tickets could be booked on the internet.

We contrast that with carping criticism about how some little kid is competing in 3 different competitions to the disadvantage of some other kid or how a competition judge's verdict might be biased because some kid is learning from the judge's uncle's fourth cousin by marriage.

I have some Americanism here for such people: That is how the cookie crumbles in the competition. That is because everyone was busy saving the souffle called the Aradhana.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Mar 2008, 18:42

cc,
you have eloquently described the details & the up&downside of the well known physics description of how probabilty & uncertanity principles affect any disturbance of a "closed" physical system! vkv

vanajan · Post by **vanajan** » 28 Mar 2008, 19:25

As the parent of the girl who won the concert competition(vocal) last year
and participated in 3 categories(Vocal kriti, Violin Kriti and concert compettion violin)
this year, I would like to clarify this:

This was what I understood from the organizers that they would like to do to ensure fairness which I thought was quite nice.When prizes were decided in the categories she participated, first she would be set aside. Among the remaining contestants, they will choose first, second and third prizes. Then they will decide where she fits, if at all she fits. This may result in multiple first,second or third prizes depending on where she falls, but no other child is deprived of the prize because of her.

The organizers also told us that she can not participate in vocal concert competition any more.

For the record, she got a second prize in vocal-kriti, special prize in concert compettion violin and no prize in Violin Kriti.

Cleveland aradhana in general and the compettitions in particular inspire my daughter very much. We attended the aradhana for the past seven years, out of which we stayed for all the 10days for 5 years. I have many anecdotes about her musical inspirations during the festival about which I would not want to write about in a public domain at this point. As a parent, I would like do to anything that inspires my child to pursue more music as long as it is not illegal/immoral/unethical.

At a personal level, I don't give any importance to these competitions and prizes, as I consider music as an art that requires
a lifetime of dedication and winning/losing does not matter at all in the long run. Still my child competes because
1. She wants to compete
2. She is really inspired after that to do more.

I am not regular reader, So I may not post any replies,sorry about that.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Mar 2008, 19:27

Murphy's law at work

Keep going! Am tied up with some domestic problems for a coupleof days!

carnaticpriya · Post by **carnaticpriya** » 28 Mar 2008, 20:09

Do competitions realy motivate a child?. I used to think yes but not anymore..There were around 40 kids in my child's category and atleast 25 of them were exceptionally good with "sruthi sutham.". Noticably,some kids were good in grammar, some sang with bhakthi ,some had layam,some showed confidence like a performing artist and some had wonderful voices and so on. At the end,five of them went to the stage (they all did not have the combination of all the above!)and got their recognition and the rest went home disappointed..I think it is a nice idea to scrape off this first ,second and third prizes and instead all the kids can go home with a certificate signed by the judges as what their strengths were. This can for sure motivate all the children to do their best next time. Or, the same "established winners" win again and again and the rest get diappointed again and aain.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Mar 2008, 20:42

CC,
There are many 'carps' in the sea and so be it. It is 'carps doubled' when it comes to CC (one's own Children Competing)!
Your post doubled my wonderment about this tremendous happening
called The Cleveland ArAdhanA. Posters here who are fans of movies of intrigue and unsurmountable travails have no idea as to how much of (collective) human energy, dedication, leadership, quick thinking and WORK goes into this reality show.
Folks, that is the way the cookie crumbles, and we are fortunate to be part of the times when CM is cherished and nourished the way it is, countless miles away from the shores of the Bay of Bengal...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Mar 2008, 20:49

carnaticpriya,
Yes, a certificate for all the children who participate is a good idea and I hope it will bring the complaints level down a notch.