Singers' tonal voice structure - who is the best?

samskr60 · Post by **samskr60** » 15 Jan 2008, 21:09

As we know, there are 3 basic qualities of voice (khahula, narata, bombaka) and the combined (misraka).

Do you know of a vocalist in Chennai whose voice combines all the 3 (khahula, narata, bombaka) qualities? If so, which of the 8 varieties of the triple misraka is it?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Jan 2008, 22:25

Explain your words clearly before asking for an opinion. Everybody is not aware of technical terms. You should parse them in plain English!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 16 Jan 2008, 06:30

Irrespective of the three basic qualities mentioned , I rank TNS's voice as the best , can scale any octave with the speed of a concord jet. . any rare concept in , in vocal singing , his voice will adopt, i am sure that there will at once be reference to his shruti lapse . but who cares? amongst the older generation singers , my vote goes to chembai.. guruvayoorappa, will there be another one like him? gobilalitha

samskr60 · Post by **samskr60** » 16 Jan 2008, 08:32

See Sangitaratnakara, in Prakirnakadhyaya, in "Kinds of voice" (39-67) you will find the explanation of the terms.

cmlover wrote:Explain your words clearly before asking for an opinion. Everybody is not aware of technical terms. You should parse them in plain English!

I do not assume that everybody on this forum is an expert. I am not asking everybody who likes which vocalist, how you rank them, and so on. The question is technical. I hope there is at least one person among the 3655 users here who understands the nuances.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Jan 2008, 08:44

well - arent we puffied up a bit here? Is there a purpose behind this? Are you aiming to shows us (maybe folks in Chennai) are really ignoramuses? Well well - let it be so, more power to you sir!

But then what makes you think concepts in sangItaratnAkara are about nuances of carnatic music - particularly when it predated early mela works by about 300 years and talks of gramas etc. which were obsolete later?

Arun

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 16 Jan 2008, 09:17

The question is technical.

Along with mastering sangeetharatnakara , you could alos take a little care in choosing the section in this forum. May be if you had posted it in technical discussions , many laymen lke me would have kept away.

samskr60 · Post by **samskr60** » 16 Jan 2008, 09:17

The purpose is very simple: my friends asked me to find a couple of good vocalists in Tamil Nadu for recording a CD. That's all.

So I need someone with a voice that is of one of the 8 varieties of the triple misraka. Simple.

arunk wrote:well - arent we puffied up a bit here? Is there a purpose behind this? Are you aiming to shows us (maybe folks in Chennai) are really ignoramuses? Well well - let it be so, more power to you sir!

But then what makes you think concepts in sangItaratnAkara are about nuances of carnatic music - particularly when it predated early mela works by about 300 years and talks of gramas etc. which were obsolete later?

Arun

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 16 Jan 2008, 09:18

khahula - creamy, sweet and soft
narata - full, deep and clear
bombaka - hollow, harsh and gross
misraka - combinations of the above

samskr60 · Post by **samskr60** » 16 Jan 2008, 09:35

mohan wrote:khahula - creamy, sweet and soft
narata - full, deep and clear
bombaka - hollow, harsh and gross
misraka - combinations of the above

There are actually more details that these.

khahula - creamy, sweet and soft - "when it matures in the lower and middle registers it becomes adilla"

narata - full, deep and clear with the range of 3 registers

bombaka - hollow, harsh, high-sounding and rich (sthula) (characterised by dryness of voice)

All in all, it is a question of a good balance of kapha, pitta and vata. (the same as in ayurveda)

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 16 Jan 2008, 11:55

samskr60 wrote:
mohan wrote:khahula - creamy, sweet and soft
narata - full, deep and clear
bombaka - hollow, harsh and gross
misraka - combinations of the above
There are actually more details that these.

khahula - creamy, sweet and soft - "when it matures in the lower and middle registers it becomes adilla"

narata - full, deep and clear with the range of 3 registers

bombaka - hollow, harsh, high-sounding and rich (sthula) (characterised by dryness of voice)

All in all, it is a question of a good balance of kapha, pitta and vata. (the same as in ayurveda)

ahem... Wonder why sansk60 couldn't have given this annotation in his first or second post even after being requested?!

Anyhow here's what I find about kahlua on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahl%C3%BAa

KahlÃºa is a well known Mexican coffee flavored liqueur. It is heavy and sweet, with a distinct taste of coffee.....
KahlÃºa is used to make cocktails and as a topping or ingredient in several desserts, including ice cream, cakes, and cheesecakes.

Fits the description "creamy, sweet and soft" to a T
Turns out sangeetharatnkara was right afterall...

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 16 Jan 2008, 11:58

Always_Evolving - good one!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jan 2008, 13:22

What you mix it with is one's choice--but what flavor!
I glance into the Technical Section with excitement and trepidation--a mixture of feelings! Yes, this rather intimidating topic belongs in that section as the very 'ignorant' Arun (!) hints and others point out, and we need the translation of the words too. When we think we understand it all, it is better that we don't speak of the vocalists as belonging to one group or the other other or club them all into the miSraka variety and be blamed for our misjudgement!

jyestha07 · Post by **jyestha07** » 16 Jan 2008, 20:27

I am all for Kahlua... in the voice or otherwise!!

=D

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 16 Jan 2008, 21:36

The purpose is very simple: my friends asked me to find a couple of good vocalists in Tamil Nadu for recording a CD. That's all. So I need someone with a voice that is of one of the 8 varieties of the triple misraka. Simple..

Dear Samskr

It sounded to me like you friends asked you to pick 2 healthy chicks from the poultry for today's party to prepare chicken noodles.

Sorry to say that -but you friends wanted a couple of voices, what is it for? . what recording carnatic songs?
If that is so they shoudl have adequate knowledge about who would sing good. with a good voice.

It sounded like they dont know anythign about the aritistes down here . gathered some knowlege from the voice system somewhere. Wanted to pick a couple of such voices. and of course you dont seem to know too . so seeking the help of members to knwo who fits the requirement.

yur whole idea sounds bizzare.

I am afraid ,our artistes are not peanuts dear.

Good luck anyway for your hunt.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Jan 2008, 22:01

At least if samskr60 had given the rlevant shlokas I would have translated them for you!
In the absence of access to sangitaratnakaram I have now to improvise based on currently avilable information

Here we go

kahUlam karNaranjakam 'coffee mexicAnum'
naratam narma kSheera sama kauthuka janakam
bombakam kaNThasthambakam ikShu khaNDam
misrakam mOdapradam manOranjakam
ahO anubhU ! anubhU! rasikajanAH ||

This is samsk(rit) 101 but still for your benefit...

(kahUla is the ear-pleasing mexican coffee, naratam is the pleasant smooth milk that excites curiosity, bombakam is throat-choking candy piece, when mixed they engender joy and "Oh Rasikas! Come and you enjoy! Enjoy! "

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Jan 2008, 22:15

Requirments of a lovely voice - sweet, intoxicating, and captivating!
To paraphrase Neeraj from Prem Pujari:
SOkhiyOn mein ghOlA jAyE phUlOn kA SabAb, usmE phir milAyI jAyE thODi sI SarAb - hOgA yUn naSA jO taiyyAr wOh (sangIt) hai!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jan 2008, 22:26

After a punishing season of endless concerts, with spent voices-- the vocalists are wondering: what are the rasikAs talking about??!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jan 2008, 22:36

toNDai pESuvadillaiyE!
OyAda season pin,
ivargaL pESuvadennavO?
yArO, engO kETTadai,
ratnAkaramE AnAlum,
toNDai raNAm ARumun,
rambamAi aRuppadEnO?

The voice does not cooperate
After an endless 'season',
What are they talking about
On mere hearsay?--though it's
From the RatnAkarA
Even before the throat heals,
Why do they hurt it as with a saw?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 17 Jan 2008, 05:51

cmlover and arasi well done on the delightful verses!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 17 Jan 2008, 06:07

To answer you question ...
JESUDAS IS THE BEST..

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 17 Jan 2008, 10:24

Dr. Balamurali is good I woudl say but old now .

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 17 Jan 2008, 13:31

cmlover and arasi, you both really made my day! As for the actual substance of the thread, I'm totally unqualified to comment, but for each of the qualities that mohan so benevolently prised open for the sake of us plebians, the first (past) artistes that came to my mind were: KVN for khahula, Chembai for narata, and SSI for bombaka.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Jan 2008, 13:42

Thanks, Bilahari. This is one way of my saying that I know very little of these, but it all amuses me, all the same. Of course, CML inspires one with his verses and then it is easy to continue in the same strain...

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 17 Jan 2008, 14:12

how about samskr60 for "bombastica" in his/her voice

.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2008, 14:41

Ha Ha!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Jan 2008, 15:35

kashTam!!
(meaning, dIfficult or darn!--whichever you choose!)

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 17 Jan 2008, 20:31

arasi wrote:rambamAi aRuppadEnO?

arasi,
should it not be 'rambaththai'?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Jan 2008, 20:46

In my view
khahula - creamy, sweet and soft = MKT or SGK or suryaprakash at present
narata - full, deep and clear = KBS or DKP or KJY at present
bombaka - hollow, harsh and gross = unbeatable MDR (none at present)
misraka - combinations of the above = Present artistes at varying levels....

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 17 Jan 2008, 20:48

chalanata: I think Arasi's usage is right.
One aruthu-fies with or like the saw.....not aruthu-fying the saw itself

This must be one of the most bizarre threads yet.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 17 Jan 2008, 21:06

Aha Aha !
"rambhamE aRupaDum vindaitanai enendRu uRaithiDuvEn !
romba romba kashTam !! thaNiyum neRi aRindilEnE !!!
kambanum kUtthanum thanda tamiizh vazhidanilE
inbamadai endRendrum nADinindREn nalamE kANN !!!

The conceptual meaning:
When the saw itself is subjected to sawing
None can redress our dificulty
But still , the poetic expressions handed down by
Kamban and oTTakUthan(renowned Tamil poet Laurettes
are bound to redress our malady and be a source of our wellbeing

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 17 Jan 2008, 21:43

Our FORUM IS SLOWLY TRANSFORMING INTO A " THAMIZH SANGAM"
rAMARAJ

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Jan 2008, 23:08

kamban vITTu aramum aRupaTTAl aRamAmO?
aram=saw; aRam=the right way (Arun, you are the one who should seize this moment and explain how r and R make a difference)
Translation rombak kashTAm (very difficult). All the same, the indirect reference is to the saying which states that even kamban's (a weaver) loom would sing poetry. I ask, 'would it be right if kamban's saw gets sawed?'
Dash it, a lot is lost in translation...

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 17 Jan 2008, 23:23

maybe the queen should have said oTTakkoothar pattirku erattai rambam

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 18 Jan 2008, 02:55

I joined Rasikas just to post in this thread. Been lurking for quite a while trying to learn to appreciate cm.

Very funny thread. Hats off to the resident poets: cmlover, arasi, vageyakara

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Jan 2008, 03:25

aRaM aRinthu aRuppArin araM arasiyin araN
akhthilArai aran araM anuppividuM |
aRaM = right way (dharmam)
aRinthu = knowing
aRuppArin = those who cut or employ
araM = saw (instrument)
arasiyin = Her Majesty's

araN = protection
(Those who use the saw as an implement for justice will be protected by the 'Queen' !)
akhthilArai = otherwise (i.e., those who do the opposite) (Note kh = 'Ayutha' ezhutthu in Tamil)
aran = Lord Siva
araM = to Hell or the nethe world
anuppividuM = despatch
those who transgress (the right use) will be despatched by Lord Siva to the nether world

(by the by the alliteration of 'a' is called 'mOnai' alankaaram in Tamil!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Jan 2008, 08:04

mahavishNu--chuckle
en_solven--welcome
CML-en solvEn!

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 08:17

Enna _solven ji.

tODA ArAmse suniyE ji!!
Just imagine this ::
FORUM: "Thamizh Sangam"
AVVAYYAR: ARASI THE GREAT
KAMBAN :VAGEYAKARA
OTTAKOOTHAR :C.M.LOVER

maram ERum mamdi manam tAnpaDaitta mAniDaril
mAdhavathai (MADHAVAM) maRudalitthu
magizhvaDayum mANbaduvE
malindadu k ANN maRathamizhan vAzhvinilE

Conceptual meaning:
Even amidst the fickle minded human ,( fickle minded as that of a frolic monkey)
The supreme VISHNU THATVAM (MAdhavam) emerges
and brings merriness to the valorous Tamil folk who
is known for his happy-go-lucky spirit.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 08:20

Though Kamban and Ottakkothan are KNOWN to be arch rivals of AVVAYYAR, In our Forum they are complementaries to each other.
Ramaraj

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 18 Jan 2008, 13:14

Can I join...

aRam, poruL maRavA manidargaL
tiRampada ingu theeTum sollOviyangaL
siRappAi viLangudE! Inba suvaigaL
perugudE! vaazhga rasanaigaL.

( a tribute to the sage Thiruvalluvar - muppAlil, eppAl siRandadu?)

aRam - Correct path
poruL - meaning (assets)
maravA - never forgetting
manidargaL - Great Human beings
tiRambada - with sheen
ingu - here
theetum - depicting
sollOviyangaL - artistic words
siRappAi - excellently
viLangudE - displaying/seen
Inba - Sweet
suvaigaL - attributes
perugudE - increases
vaazhga - Long live to
rasanaigaL - the tastes/likes.

va

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 14:48

What an excellent KAVIDAI Annaswwamiji !!
Ramaraj

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Jan 2008, 15:42

Interesting poetry
Hmm was wondering what way I can contribute.
Just one line.
Ayyo arukAdEngO !!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Jan 2008, 15:45

Very nice, Annasami!
Ramaraj,
Now you have to think of other names of bards. Chalanata might join in too, who knows?
I am stuck with Avvai--the only one of my gender. I have to live up to the name, on top of it. I was young once, unlike her who turned to an old woman in a jiffy!
CML, oTTAkkUttar? iraTTai, no, multi tAPPAL to his credit--he writes in tamizh, sanskrit, english and french. Malayalam and spanish too, perhaps...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Jan 2008, 15:46

Greek, latin, german??

sindhu · Post by **sindhu** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:07

peN kavigaLil, avvaiyum ingE
paNN isaikkum pAvaiyum ingE
kaNN kAnA sangakAlam orungE
maNNil indru vandadO!

-sb-

'queen' - I'm with you.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:27

Great, sindhu, young, poetess, singer? Wow!

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:29

Hi Sindhu ,
Sindu kavi pAdi engal cindai kavarnda
yEmdizhayE ! PotRi ! pOtRi !! iLavalE vAzhiyavE
undanadu kavi yArvam uLamdanayE IrtaduvE !!
candamigu senthamizhil sonda kavi samaithiDuvAi !!!

Ramaraj

Conceptual meaning :
Oh ! sindhu, Your SINDHU kavi ( a type o tamil poetry)
has attracted our thoughts. Glories unto you oh little Lady !Long live !!
your penchant for poetry has gravitated our hearts
Let your candam -ridden tamil verses be a source for your own creations!!!
Ramaraj

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:40

Hallo Suji Ram ji,
It's only a modest beginning to dissipate the long- drawn monotony
aru suvayil aRuvayum oru tani suvai anRo !
katceri yil tani mAdiri !!
Ramaraj

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:54

Additional Constituent Members Of Forum Thamizh Sangham

V_ Annaswamy : Pugazhendi Pulavar
Sindhu : Kakkai Padiniyar

Karnaticfan · Post by **Karnaticfan** » 18 Jan 2008, 17:20

'arasar'um 'arasi'yum uLam maghizha,
arasal purasalAi viLangiya navakavigaL
purappattu imminvalaiyil minnalAi thigazha,
arumUnu janavari thodarndadE.

gks

'arasar' Shri Ram'raj'

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 17:39

Hallo Karnaticfan !!!
Kavi kALameghathai kANomendra thIrAa thApamum
kuRayuDnE kAthirunden, kiTtiyador kALamega kavi- ppizhambu
geTTi yAga pidithukonDEn umadiniya kaviyadanai
maTTila magizhci yE kANN !! mARupaDu karuthonDRillai !!!
Ramaraj

cONCEPTUAL MEANING:
i HAVE BEEN YEARNING FOR A kavi kaalamegham (in to our forum)
Got it just now in the shape of a towering inferno
caught hold of his sweet peotic out pourings
non diminishing delight is the resultant state of mind sans second thought !!!
Ramaraj