Top musicians singing with disciples

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 08 Nov 2007, 13:32

I feel singing with disciples on stage is a thing of the past. None of the current front-ranking vidwans seem to do this now except if the disciple is their own child etc.

In the earlier days, Ariyakudi or Semmangudi or Musiri or MS or Chembai never used to sing without one or two disciples (very rare) during public concerts and their concerts always used to engage the audience since the vocal support had a life of its own. Only exceptions were the Alathur Brothers who anyways were singing as a duo.

If established vidwans are not interested in passing the baton to the younger singers by asking them to sing along with them and gain exposure. Presence of vocal support always adds to the spontaenity and verve in a concert, specially if the disciple is an advanced disciple that can hold his own. This is more evident in ragavistara and swarams.

Why are the current musicians not inclined to this approach today? Should rasikas voice our interest for its revival?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:16

I agree - it is nice to see hear vocal support and we should have more of that. We have already discussed the contributions of Sri Vembu Iyer. Many musicians like TMK, Sanjay do have quite a few disciples on stage although they usually don't sing (or are at least not audible)...TNS also brings an army of disciples, led by TNS Krishna. I also really like the vocal support provided by TVS' children (I hope to hear them perform soon)...Vijay Siva, OST, Sudha are among those who are rarely seen with disciples on stage...

We also need to keep in mind that the music scene is presently dominated by young musicians and some of them may feel it pretentious to have disciples on stage! Many of them are probably not even teaching as of now...

kadambam · Post by **kadambam** » 09 Nov 2007, 01:10

I diasgree..There is an unfair comparission when Chembai/SSI/ARI are compared to Sanjay/TMK/Sudha etc, for the following reasons:

- The recordings of the past masters are available mostly from 1960 onwards, amd most of the above musicians were past their 50's at least mid 40's.

- Another aspect is that many were mike less concerts, so vocal exertions were much higher than today

- There was this concept of Guru kula vasam earlier, so when you heard a KVN or Trichur Ramachandran accompany, they were completely absorbed to the styles of their masters. Today, even though one learns from a leading guru, he is influenced by MP3 waves, so it is more difficult to adhere to Guru's style. Moreover, Guru himself is experimenting many new ideas as they perform (mainly Sanjay/TMK..)

- Earlier you had to have an established mentor to get an identity, which is not as much nowadays(SSI - MVI, KVN - ARI, MDR - Tiger) Nowadays, the role of guru has changed significantly.. there are many teachers, who weren't successful performing artists, but have produced many successful performing musicians (good eg, would be PSN - Ranjani Gayatri)

- And finally last but not least, yesteryear musicians sang fewer kritis/ragas as compared to current musicians. These guys learn new ragas/kritis all the time, so the learning curve must be pretty steep, for their disciples to pick up.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Nov 2007, 05:06

Kadambam,
You have several valid points:
gurukulA days are gone.
Mikeless concerts sounded better with the vocal support of SishyAs.
Today's front line vidvAns are much younger, and as you say, are evolving and experimenting and they haven't settled down to a singing style of their own, aren't taking it easy and letting the SishyAs support them fully. If the students are on stage, it amounts to three hours of lesson for them. In addition, they play the tambUrA for their guru. When the gurus get to be of a certain age, then things might change.
Coming to think of it, the old SishyAs did not always have regular lessons during their gurukula vAsam. Their gurus had a busy schedule of performing and it was on stage that they could listen without any interruptions (didn't have to run errands and so on).
Another thing. It took years and years for the SishyAs to make it on their own then. Now, even the students of young vidvAns are performing...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 09 Nov 2007, 06:59

vocal support has benefits as well as pinpricks for sishyas . they have to follow the route of the main artist, , should not go beyond that.I remember an incident when a top ranking woman artist , one of three best of her time, casting a sneering look at her sishya ,one of the best of the presentday just because she dared to sing a newsangati ,applauded by the discerning listeneres.

For the Guru, it is an occasion to showcase the abilities of her/his shishya and carnatic music requires certain amount of hand holding exercise in training the disciple. This is the only occasion where the Teacher expects his/her sishya to follow ditto on the laid down path chosen by him/her and the disciple is expected to follow this. Added to this, the disciple is expected tocarry on the tradition on the said terms and conditions. It is more or less like a relay race and the rasikas are happy listening to both the guru/sishya. Gobilalitha

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 09 Nov 2007, 07:27

I have noted ,during my rare visits to Madras December conccerts, Nedunuri Krishnamurthy getting vocal support by either one or both of the Malladi Brothers, although they are already established artists in their own rights. Of course, Nedunuri belongs to the senior group.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 09 Nov 2007, 10:31

I have also seen artsites such as TNS, TVR, TVS have vocal support in some of their concerts. You can classify them all in the senior group as well. DKJ and Santhanam also had disciples accompany them.