dEvakriyA - Dikshitar

[SrinathK]

There are two dEvakriyAs for those who are wondering - one rAgA from the Dikshitar school that is virtually identical to the modern shuddha sAvEri (I say modern because Dikshitar's shuddha sAvEri is again different, but that is another story) - and the other rAgA that is of the Thyagaraja school that is very different.

I had to mention this because even songlists get this wrong and mix up both of them.

The Dikshitar school dEvakriyA is for almost all purposes the same as shuddha sAvEri and it goes like this :
Aro : S R2 M1 P D2 S
Avaro : S D2 (P) M1 R2 S

And there lies the one difference - dEvakriyA sometimes omits the panchama on the descent (but uses it most of the time). A few more non-linear phrases like DMPR etc characteristic of Dikshitar's school are also present. A good example of this is on the line vadAnya dEvakriyA khElanam in Sri vishwanAtham bhajEham.

This acharyanet lesson is a good place to start : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSeTv4s7C0

This being a Dikshitar thread, only Dikshitar school compositions are being taken up. So first up - Sri guruguha tArayAshu mAm - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8k-z2xqAh8

Sri vaTukanAtha - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkOURm0wt7s&t=284s

sandhyA dEveem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riOXBR6M4K0

And a rare number - a kriti of Ambi Dikshitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3KchqqeX0Y

And if you missed it - the part from Sri vishwanAtham bhajEham - https://youtu.be/1-1dgKw3Ijs?t=701

[Sachi_R]

While on the subject of Dikshitar, one question, Srinath.
A famous vidushi in her presentation on Dikshitar referred to him consistently as Dikshita. No r.
Made sense to me. The talk was in English, and I found her terminology coterminous with references to Tyagaraja without r and Shyama Shastri without r or gal and Purandara_dasa without r. These suffixes are in Tamizh as an honorific.

So how come all references to Dikshitar have the r in our parlance? Except in the version I have of SSP, where he is referred to as Dīkṣita.

[RSR]

In Tamilnadu CM circles, it has been the custom to refer to the tRINITY in various ways. for so many decades. (ex) Thyagaraja swamikal, Thyagaraja swami, saint thyagarajaj, and sometimes, simply Thyagaraja( without meaning any disrespect. Similarly, Shyama sastry, (saastrikal), , sadasiva bramendram( brmmedraaL), SIMPLY DIKSHITAR. ( for MD). So long, as we refer to tem with reverence, it does not matter at all. In tamilzh-language parlance, we mention the names of respected personalities( poets, writers, leaders) with suitable honorific.
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it will help if the name of the vocalist is given corresponding to each yt link.
Also, some reference to song in the same ragam by thyagaraja Swami

[RSR]

may be useful for lerners.
(youtube link..hoping that it is correct)
Thyagaraja Kriti-nATimATa--

devakriya--Adi- MD Ramanathan .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=L3Be1JIilZA

[CRama]

RSR, The devakriya of Thyagaraja is a different ragam from the ragam under discussion.

[RSR]

RSR, The devakriya of Thyagaraja is a different ragam from the ragam under discussion.

Respected Sir,
Thank you.
SRINATH had mentioned it. I gave the Thyagaraja swami's kriti by that name for learners to listen and feel the difference.
I notice that this is is the only kriti by thyagaraja in this ragam.
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May I know the ragam of Smt.MS's urdu song?

[SrinathK]

I am opening another thread for dEvakriyA of Thyagaraja's school. Please hold on.

[shankarank]

So how come all references to Dikshitar have the r in our parlance? Except in the version I have of SSP, where he is referred to as Dīkṣita.

Muddu was also justified using "the book" even recently. Well let me tellya! Telugu is no longer a court language! Worse it is not even a kutcheri language if you go by the mutilation of words.

[Sachi_R]

Shankaran, this has nothing to do with Telugu I feel. If anything, SSP was preserving the Samskrita version of the name.

To say Dikshitar in English is porting something from Tamizh to English without due modification, unlike in the case of Tyagaraja(r) or Shyama Shastri(gal).

In Kannada we say
Tyagaraja(ru), Dikshita(ru), Dasa(ru), but drop those suffixes when we refer to these names in English.

[shankarank]

then it should be dikshitah!

[Sachi_R]

No Shankaran. The vibhakti ending changes with case (h is only for nominative) and so it is untenable to be used. Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Dikshita. It is called the praatipadika.

[shankarank]

Ok get it.. you are saying only the root base stem should port and decline as per the new language's rules.

Well English has no honorific suffix - it has no inherent sense of divinity - hence no room for divine respect. But I suppose some Indian languages do - may be even not Sanskrit. You will have to add mahodaya or something. Or you have to address them in third person? Some traditional families use the third person even as they converse in tamizh in second person sense.

Whereas even in Hindi - you say aap - at least. we say nIngaL ( plural ) in tamizh to address even a single elderly person. dikshitar - "r" comes from similar plurality.

[RSR]

Pardon me!.
. 1) this particular thread is about a 'ragam'
2) I referred to a number of articles, in reputed magazines like SRUTI and 'TheHindu' articles... and all of them mention the name as muthuswami Dikshitar .Even posts in this forum
( by Sri.Sachi himself .....viewtopic.php?t=31014) uniformly use that name only. ( let us be thankful, that no writer in English, refers to as 'Dixit'!)
The discussion may be more suitable in general discussion section.. under a suitable topic name.

just wondering, how the English language articles published in Karnataka,, Kerala and Andhra refer to this name.
How do the MUSIC ACADEMY archives refer to this composer?
how does a well-known book by Subba Rao use this name?
----- The chnces are that 99% use Muthuswami dikshitar.
If someone is writing an article in sanskrit, dikshita may sound natural in that ambience.

Shall we revert back to the main post, please!

[shankarank]

Once digressed forever digressed

[Sachi_R]

Let me close the detour. Why Dikshitar and not Dikshita?
It is an act of God = Devakriya.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Why Dikshitar and not Dikshita?

Simple.
Why mODi and not mOdI ?
Why advAni and not ADvANI ?
Why ambEtkar and not AmbEDkar ?
Why tilagar and not TiLak ?
...
...
...
Act of God, indeed !

[RasikasModerator2]

Please get back on topic.