R2 or G1, R3 or G2, D2 or N1, D3 or N2

[Prasanna1995]

Dear all,
If according to the fact that R2 equals to G1 and so on, can this raga ( say) S R2 M1 P....... be considered equivalent to S G1 M1 P...... .
Or can Rishaba be sung as Gandharam though they have the same swarasthanas. I suppose its not allowed. Correct me if i am wrong.

[sureshvv]

The vivadhi swara comes into play only when the companion swara is also present, i. e. Only when both R & G are both present, you can consider one as vivadhi.

I may be wrong.

[Rsachi]

Sir,
1. R2 and G1 are not the same.
2. Carnatic music (Indian music) uses 22 swara sthanas. See this
3. I think the concept that some high R's and low G's are the same shruti is contextual. The concept of vadi and samvadi swaras come into play while calling a note as a R or a G.

[vasanthakokilam]

I do not know the answer, we will wait for the experts but in the mean time let me set the context and semantics groundwork in a bit more detail so there is no confusion.

If we talk in the context of 22 sruthis etc then Prasanna1995's question is not applicable.

If we are talking the Venkatamakhin/melakartha scheme involving 12 swarasthanas, 16 solfa syllables, then question is quite relevant.

As Suresh says, Vivadhi swara comes into play only when the companion swara is also present. Stated differently, what is more important for Vivadhi, it is not the swara itself but the Vivadhi interval.

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Tutorial Refresher:

Vivadhi interval is defined as a 'semi tone interval separating the second scale degree and its flat' ( R2 and R1 ), the third scale degree and its flat' ( G3 and G2), the 6th scale degree and its flat' ( D2 and D1) and the 7th scale degree and its flat' ( N3 and N2). The very simple rule is, if you want to use any such pair in a melakartha, rename the solfa syllables as follows.
( R1, R2 ) -> ( R1, G1)
( G2, G3 ) -> ( R3, G3)
( D1, D2 ) -> ( D1, N1)
( N2, N3 ) -> ( D3, N3 )
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But your question adds an interesting dimension because since they do some 'special treatment' to take away the inherent dissonance of such intervals using gamakas ( like in Nattai ), does one need to provide that treatment even when the vivadhi-defining buddy note is not present in a janya raga of a vivadhi mela.

I do not know but my hope is that the answer is yes, at least in some cases.

[sureshvv]

Seetha Narayanan mami once sang a rare raga where the G2 sounded like R3 that muddled the audience. Don't remember the name of the raga or kriti but it was at P.S. High school