Violin fingering question

[rasam]

Can someone kindly let me know how the fingering for D2/N2 is done on the Sa string itself? Usually the middle finger is used for P and the ring finger for D1/D2. Thats usually how far I go on the Sa string, which is sort of OK but it would be great to get the sort of continuity one gets without changing string.

So my question is: how is N2 done? Especially when the gamakam N2 is just close to D2 (i.e. not the big kampitam gamakam D2->S->D2 which is usually played on the Pa string). Also what is done for N3 and S*?

As a great example, how would you play N2 in Surutti (ah, what a note!) on the Sa string itself?

[rasam]

Its probably the ring finger. So I guess my question is are there schools of playing which do not use the ring finger? And my question remains for N3 and S*.

[rasam]

I suppose the little finger could be also be used for N2 ... Does anyone do this? The thing that gets me is that if the ring finger is used for both D2 and N2, one has to be extremely careful since it is quite high up and the distances between notes reduces as one moves up.

(OK, I am going to stop thinking out aloud and replying to my own posts)

[rasam]

In fact, my question is so stupid ... Obviously the fingering will be analogous to S*, R2*, G3* etc on the Pa string.

Idiots like me should think first before they post.

[ninjathegreat]

rasam, very interesting series of posts

[msakella]

Dear (hopefully) brother-member, rasam, Your loud thinking also helps some aspirants. Don’t worry. In our MSG’s technique of Violin play there are 3 types of Murchana i.e., Arohana & Avarohana practice on a single string either with a Sahitya-bow or with Svara-bow and they are 1.srgm-pdns-rsnd-pmgr, 2. srgm-pdns-rgmp-dpmg-rsnd-pmgr and 3.srgm-pdns-rgmp-dnsr-grsn-dpmg-rsnd-pmgr. While playing these varieties in the raga Kalyani, as an exercise for the middle-finger, pointing-finger should be used for first ‘r’ and later allother upper notes should be played with middle-finger alone. And, as an exercise for both middle and ring-fingers, pointing-finger for ‘r’, middle-finger for ‘g, m & p’ and all the upper notes with ring-finger. While playing plain notes of ‘pdndp’ we can play N1 or N2 with little-finger also.amsharma.

[rasam]

Msakella sir, thanks for your response but I don't understand your reply. Why would one want to use different fingers for the same note position(s) and mess up the fingering? For example, you suggest using both the middle and ring finger for all notes upward of P. Also, isn't using the same finger for adjacent notes counterproductive for playing gamakams, since you wont have the support of two fingers?

Also, could you explain how grand kampitams like the D2 in Abhogi (M1->S->D2) are played?

No wonder the great MSG is such a maverick violinist!

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, rasam, Before answering your questions I am compelled to ask you a question, if you don’t mind to answer. You are very well aware that we have to use all the four fingers, pointing, middle, ring and little-fingers, while playing the Violin. Among them, the middle and ring fingers more powerful than the other two and we have train these powerful fingers in so many ways to serve us in any way we require.
To do so what are the exercises you practice and in which way? In fact, this is purely a practical related question and it is possible to make others understand in the required way if only we demonstrate. However, as we have no other means to converse than this forum, I shall, possibly, try to explain. To train these two powerful fingers properly, the Murcchana exercises, I have furnished in my last post, are the better than many others.
While practicing Gamaka on a single string, to train the middle-finger, we have to start with pointing-finger playing Rishabha and all other upper-notes with the middle-finger
and to train the ring-finger, we have to start with the pointing-finger playing the Rishabha and the middle-finger playing the Gandhara and all other upper-notes with the ring-finger. WHILE PLAYING ONLY PLAIN NOTES, GENERALLY, WE SHOULD PLAY THE NOTES WITH THE RESPECTIVE FINGERS ONLY. But, while practicing Gamaka we have to practice with all the four fingers independently. And, if we want to play a ‘sangati’ partly plain and partly Gamaka, this should be played according to the finger-usage-acquaintance of an individual. You wrote about the support of other fingers while playing. There lies the unparalleled greatness of the highest-diciplined-finger-technique of the maverick Violinist, Sri MSG, the only Great. This is the un-divided group of four fingers. While playing Violin, the trunks of all the fingers should always be kept together and their ends only part with each other, if at all it is required, basing upon the combination of notes and the ‘sangati’ we have to play and its manner. amsharma..

[rasam]

Among them, the middle and ring fingers more powerful than the other two and we have train these powerful fingers in so many ways to serve us in any way we require.To do so what are the exercises you practice and in which way?

I dont do anything special to develop strength in my middle and ring fingers. Maybe that explains why I am so bad?

Anyway, thanks sir for your patient replies ... Its almost impossible to discuss these things without being in person. However, I dont have a guru where I am located, which is why I seek help from people like you. I am at the point where I can [only reasonably!] sing most gamakams and also play them on the violin but somehow the violin version always lacks body (azhuttam) primarily because of my weak bowing and experimental fingering.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, rasam, Never get disgusted. What has been destined in your case you do not know. More than that or even less than that you will never get. But, as you are not aware of it, your duty always is to try your level best. Before starting to teach you music the level of your instinctive-laya should at first be tested. If you are provided with it, then only music should be taught to you. Generally, the music teachers do not know how to test this instinctive level of Laya of an aspirant. If at all they know, even if you do not have it, they will start teaching music without revealing your inefficiency lest they will loose their income. That is why, nowadays, it is very difficult to find a true Guru in these Fine Arts. OK. This is going to become a very long lecture. I shall stop here. Unless I know where you are in this Laya aspect I cannot help you. Your inefficiency in Laya effects you Violin play too. I feel very sorry to say this to you. I am always ready to help you in each and every manner I can. With best wishes, amsharma.

[violinlover]

dear rasam,
sri amsharma sir has dealt with this concept of gamakas played in violin very well and i would not like to confuse you more.but anyway let me tell u that sri amsharma sir is an MSG mama enthusiast. so whatever he says pertains to the MSG mama school of thought. however i am an MC mama paithiyum[mad]. so whatever i play i play like(or would like to play ) like MC mama. so i am here to tell u how gamakams are played in our school i.e. MC mama's school.
if you are really interested, please reply.or if you are satisfied with what am sharma sir has told you( which i assure u is not easy without proper guidance) then please go ahead!!!
all the best!!!

MC mama paithiyum violinlover

[msakella]

Dear b/s-member, violinlover, Sarva Shris MSG, LGJ and MC and all others are our Mamas and being the nephews of them we can take any technique from any one of them and use it properly. All are sweets and we can have any sweet of our choice. Music is also a sweet and so the choice. These three stalwarts remain as trendsetters in Indian Violin forever. I feel that there is nothing wrong in following any finger-technique to get reasonable control over the instrument. In the same manner Shri MSG also formulated a finger-technique by which he can play either Karnatak or Hindusthani with equal mastery over the instrument unlike any other violinist and stands better than the best. That is why he can only be called the Master of Violin. By the by, I feel, it is very important not to link up the finger technique with the style of music as they have independent identity. amsharma.