Lyrics for Meenakshi Thaye (Abhogi)

MBK · Post by **MBK** » 12 Feb 2007, 18:44

Hi

Could anyone help with lyrics for the song Meenakshi Thaye in raga Abhogi.

Thanks

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 12 Feb 2007, 20:14

mInAkSi tAyE. rAgA: pUrvikalyANi. cApu tALA. Composer: T.M.Thiagarajan.

P: mInAkshi tAyE enakkaruLvAyE shrI
A: dInarakSakiyE vINA gAnapriyE
pA ma gA ri gA sa ri gA dha sa ri gA ma pa ga ma ri ga sa ri ga ma pa ma dhA
ri gA sa ri gA dha sa ri gA ma pa ga ma ri ga sa ri ga ma pa dha pa dhA
sa ri sa rI dha ga ri sa rI dha sA ma dhA dha sA ma dhA ga mA dha sA ga ri ma pa dha pa dhA sa ri sa rI dha sa ri sa rI dha sA ma dhA dha sA ma dhA ga mA dha sA ga rI
C: Anudinam anbarkku aruL sheyyum tAyE
en kuraigalai enrum poruttarul nIyE
(repeat ciTTasvara)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Feb 2007, 20:26

Lakshman
I think MBK is asking for the abhOgi song- mInAkShi tAyE aruL purivAyE | malayadhvajan sEyE madurai vAzh mAyE ||P||

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 12 Feb 2007, 21:24

I realized my error but before I could correct it I got called away as un unexpected guest showed up at the door. Here is the correct song.

mInAkSi tAyE (padam). rAgA: AbhOgi. Adi tALA.

P: mInAkSi tAyE aruL purivAyE malayadhvajan sEyE madurai vAzh mAyE
A: vAnOrgaL magizhndiDum vaiyattOr pugazhndiDum vAhanai maNandAyE vAmattil iNaindAyE
C: mahiSAsuranin shiram vIzha sheidAyE marakata mENiyoDu tavam purindAyE
makara yAzhil svara bhEham kaNDAyE mati mukhamum sErvizhiyum koNDAyE

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Feb 2007, 21:44

In caraNa- svara bhEham->> svarabhEdam
sErvizhiyu->> sElvizhiyum

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 12 Feb 2007, 21:49

Thanks DRS.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 13 Feb 2007, 03:09

mENiyoDu ---> mEniyODu

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 13 Feb 2007, 03:23

Thanks Mahakavi.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 03:50

marakata, muka => the tamizh words are pronounced maragada, and muga. Same for makara => maraga

The Sanskrit pronounciation of these words in this krithi (which is not exactly the maNipravaLam style) would be odd and out of place (i want to say wrong but ...

)

Arun

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 13 Feb 2007, 05:15

By that standard one should also say mInATci, bEdam and madi mugam.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 07:02

Oh Please!

No mInAkshi is the norm. The ksha letter is norm for decades - maybe more. Please make an attempt to understand what is acceptable/norm in formal tamizh vs what is colloqual vs what is fringe usages etc. IMO, it is best to follow what the norm is in literary tamizh circles and not makes up rules on our own because it fits pronounciation norms of certain communities, or worse attribute to original pronounciation in originating language. Note this is not the same as in instances where there is liberal usage of sanskrit phrases which really are not part of tamizh language (e.g. dharmasamvardhani in sAmagAna priyE).

Agreed, the "norm" in tamizh as per usage in literary circles is not always logical for imports as it is based on how long the import has been and how often it is used etc. etc. But IMO literary circles for established words should be respected - every language demands the same respect at least when it comes to what is official.

By this Mukha is plain wrong in tamizh. It breaks 2 pronounciation rules. and besides the morph mugam has been around for at atleast 1500 years! I would also dare suggest that using "sha" as "sa" for transliteration purposes is also wrong albeit in a much less serious category. It is as wrong as telugu people starting to transliterate (not pronounce) as sera instead of sara. You cannot elevate pronounciation preferences beyond what they are. You leave it as "sa" and it is understood some people use "Sa" in places - it doesnt change the fact that officially it is sa.

And yes it is madi mugam, bEdam, sangIdam in a tamizh krithi. The language has evolved the way it is. We cant wish it to be something it is not.

Arun

meena · Post by **meena** » 13 Feb 2007, 08:28

mahakavi and arunk

can u pl. discuss this @ http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2054

thanku

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 08:37

sure but all these need a context to discuss it. Removing the context and discuss in dry language threads everytime does no good. Some points made apply to what I see as transliteration errors in text posted here and hence belongs right here. If any, please move only from ravi's post onwards (i.e. about sangItam).

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 13 Feb 2007, 14:34

arunk wrote:No mInAkshi is the norm. The ksha letter is norm for decades - maybe more.

Where are you Arun? mInATci is way way more common than mInAkShi. mInAkShi you hear only in certain communities and in a chunk of the educated(regardless of the community). Go to any rural household (which form the majority), you will never ever hear mInAkShi.

And yes it is madi mugam, bEdam, sangIdam in a tamizh krithi. The language has evolved the way it is. We cant wish it to be something it is not.

While I see what you say and I dont disagree with it, I would say the language used in CM has evolved in a certain way and we must respect that too.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 18:39

Who is talking about colloquial usage

? I specifically mentioned that I was talking about norms in formal usage and not colloquial usage. mInAskhi is very common in books and novels which use formal language. If you go with rural usage, then wouldnt tyAgaraja's krithis with sanskrit influence have to go morphs as well?

Language in CM - again we must attempt to make a difference what is common tamizh words and what is more maNipravaLam style. In words well ingrained in tamizh usage, you know very well that there is no place for kha/bha/pha in words. If most of the practioneers of these tamizh krithis are tamilians which is a pretty safe bet (and these are from those communities), i can dare say that almost of them will NOT say bEdham nor mukham. Also, you cannot write it as such as the script doesnt allow it. So i dont see how this "special language in CM" could have evolved so. Arguing for sanskrit based pronounciation for well ingrained words in tamizh is a silly proposition IMO

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 13 Feb 2007, 18:51

Watch your words Arun. Just suffixing an IMO is not an excuse to get away with anything. You do get carried away with your arguments. When has a script limited or restrained people's pronunciation? If that is indeed the case, mInAkShi is Wrong. Are you reay turning a deaf ear when you say musicians will not pronounce bhEdam(certainly not bEEdham as that is Wrong) or mukham. e.g in yArO ivaryArO, how many times have you heard "candra bimba muga" vs "candrabimbs mukha"?

I wonder if your transliteration attempts are colouring your perception

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 20:40

drshrikaanth wrote:When has a script limited or restrained people's pronunciation?

When it became a prime mode of communique (i.e. across land) Without that the only way to retain pronounciation would be in a community most of whom knew the "foreign" (as in not native language) pronounciation. That has long since past. Besides my argument is restricted mainly to words which has been in tamizh vocabulary for a while (i.e. words like mugam etc.). It again does not apply to words part of tamizh krithi which are not tamizh words. But as I mentioned there, it is a loosing cause there. The pronounciation cannot survive with the way script is.

If that is indeed the case, mInAkShi is Wrong.

How so? the ksha letter was added to script and is in use. Some non-native constructs can be adequately represented in the script. Most cannot.

Are you reay turning a deaf ear when you say musicians will not pronounce bhEdam(certainly not bEEdham as that is Wrong) or mukham. e.g in yArO ivaryArO, how many times have you heard "candra bimba muga" vs "candrabimbs mukha"?

No. I am sure mukham is wrong when used in the context of a tamizh phrase - candra bimba mukha is not exactly a tamizh phrase. But say pAl vaDiyum mugam is a tamizh phrase and using mukham is wrong there. But even take non-tamizh phrases in tamizh krithis like this. In my honest opinion, they are setup for failure w.r.t retaining pronounciation. There is no way to expect tamizh people to know the pronounciation unless they know the sanskrit words behind it. If the word gets incorporated into tamizh, it is not going to retain original pronounciation because there is no way for all of tamil diaspora to get it right without script help. Also take the fact of criticism musicians endure for lack of pronounciation of non-tamil krithis owing to tamil script/language. Now if the script would represent the actual sound - you had hope. But script provides zero help here. The script is extremely important here.

(besides the pronounciation rules that tamizh has in terms of softer sounds in the middle, and of course no bha/kha/cha/pha are supposedly for good reasons - although i dont know how to know whethere there is element to truth. This is the irony - some people would claim the softerning, and the removal of kha/bha/gha etc. beautifies as the harder sounds are harsher, but others would claim the exact opposite! I dont subscribe to either

as like i said each language has its own beauty which in itself is a subjective thing).

Judging from the fact that most tamizh musicians are accused of getting telugu pronounciation wrong owing to tamizh limitations here, is it really far-fetched to state that they wont do same morphing tamizh krithis? And besides when I meant practioners I was not restricting to tamizh musicians. I meant all the folks learning CM in taml nadu.

Meena/drs: i guess the last few posts could be moved too if you feel so

. We are still very much on mInakshi but then lot more has been said

Arun

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:10

arunk wrote:

Now if the script would represent the actual sound - you had hope.

Some books in tamil do use subscripts to represent actual sounds.
I have difficulty when I see words like sharaNam/caraNam, bhAvam /pAvam which use the same characters in tamil script, I have to look at the context and guess the actual word.
I can see your point that the proper tamil words have to be used in tamil songs. But When people sing "magA gaNapatim manasA smarAmi" it sounds totally out of place

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:20

subscripts work only when representing non-tamizh krithis. There is no argument there - you cannot and must not "tamilize" them. maga gaNapatim (or maha gaNabadim!) would be wrong - no justification can be done there

!

Subscripts are needed even for tamizh krithis which use sanskrit words that are not part of tamil vocabulary - particularly in localized sanskrit phrases. But you probably are not going to find because people publishing view them still has "tamizh krithis" and so no need for subscript. Like I said - setup for failure

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:28

It gets curiouser--says Alice in Diacritical Land...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:32

subscripts work only when representing non-tamizh krithis.

Not really. What about the rAmanATaka song sharaNam sharaNam raghu or is it caraNam caraNam raghu?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Feb 2007, 21:39

no i meant - they work only within context of words in krithis (non-tamizh and tamizh). But some words we discussed here are widely applicable outside of cm krithis and so you could find in articles, novels etc. We cannot hope to use subscripts there

. Of course some words do have legitimate tamizh forms - you cannot turn back the clock on them.

caraNam etc. => we discussed this before. Its in the language section. Yes this is a problem - sort of like bhAvam/pAvam. Unless a tamilian knows sanskrit (or telugu/kannada/malayalam), he is not going to differentiate the two in a tamizh krithi and you cannot blame him either

Arun

savannahmagic · Post by **savannahmagic** » 19 Jun 2025, 18:28

Dear All,

Is it possible to get word to word meanings of this song?

Lyrics for Meenakshi Thaye (Abhogi)

Re: Lyrics for Meenakshi Thaye (Abhogi)