Subramania Bharati

girishs · Post by **girishs** » 03 Dec 2006, 00:12

Who set Bharathiyar's songs to tune?
Also, Chandiran Oliyil is sung in Malayamarutham, Chandrakauns, and Kiravani.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 03 Dec 2006, 03:46

Many of the compositions were set in specific ragas by Bharatiyar himself.
Songs without ragas were tuned by other people.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Dec 2006, 13:06

Lji,
Even with the songs for which bhArathi had mentioned the rAgAs (no doubt, he sang them out aloud as he walked the sea shore), others have changed the rAgAs...

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 03 Dec 2006, 15:56

That's right. For example, Muruga Muruga was tuned in many versions - nattaikurinji, durbarikanada, desh, kharaharapriya, kambodhi, a couple of ragamalikas and so on. Chinnanchiru Kiliye was originally in Bhairavi, but it has been tuned and retuned many times. Even Rajkumar, his grandson, renders a different version.

girishs · Post by **girishs** » 03 Dec 2006, 20:16

Is there a record of what Bharathiyar tuned himself and what others did? Who are the others? For instance, if Chninnanchiru Kiliye was retuned to Kapi, which is the current surviving version, we need to know who to applaud. Or does it really matter?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:51

girishs,
What matters is that bhArathi's songs are sung--though in different rAgAs--by various performers and are kept alive. The younger members of the forum showing interest in his poetry is itself a healthy sign. May the vara kavi's work flourish...

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:54

Bharathi's intentions of raga are clearly spelt out by himself. if you go through any of his poetry book containing the verses you would find them.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:58

You are right, chalanata. To buy a copy of bhArathi kavidaigaL is the thing to do...

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 03 Dec 2006, 22:09

Dr. S Ramanathan used to sing bhArathiyar's songs in the raga set by the poet himself. His daughter Ms Geetha Bennett once mentioned this in her concert. She also sang the "oozhi koothu" in mohanam (these kinds of songs are so rare to hear).

Though I agree the lyrics are what really matters, and I dont dispute changing ragas, it would probably be an insight into bhArathiyar's moods & feelings if these songs are rendered in the same ragas as set by the poet.

girishs · Post by **girishs** » 04 Dec 2006, 07:53

So, there is no record of who has set what song to a different tune than what Bharathiyar intended?

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 04 Dec 2006, 14:19

Sometimes there is. Some say TNS tuned Chinnanchiru Kiliye in the popular ragamalika (Kapi, Maand, Desh, Vasantha, Tilang, Sivaranjani). The version Rajkumar renders is set by someone!! (I have the name somewhere, I'll get it later). Bharathiyar's version is in Bhairavi, which was the original. The DKP/DKJ school have their own rAgamAlikA, but they use the original bhairavi for the final verse, and instead of kApi, use Khamas (the same notes of the original Kani Nilam Vendum).

Muruga Muruga was originally in Nattaikkurinji. Vedi Padum (the Oozhi Kootu) was originally in Mohanam. Thedi Unnai (which was popularised in Sindhubhairavi by TNS), was actually in Nadanamakriya. Kani Nilam Vendum was originally in Khamas.

There is no set 'current' version to applaud. Each music school will teach their own. Perhaps one of the few pieces that has only one version (to my knowledge), is the rAgamAlikA popularised by DKP & MLV, Theeratha Vilaiyattu Pillai.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:16

Vocalist wrote:Sometimes there is. Some say TNS tuned Chinnanchiru Kiliye in the popular ragamalika (Kapi, Maand, Desh, Vasantha, Tilang, Sivaranjani).

Some of the mahAkavi's compositions were (re)tuned for movies and those have stuck:
One of the most popular versions of chinnanchiru kiLiyE is from the movie maNamagaL IIRC, tuned by C. R. Subbaraman, sung by MLV and V. N. Sundaram, and most of the versions I have heard, even in concerts (MLV, Sudha, and even Maharajapuram Santhanam) are all based on this version, including the ending with 'en uyir ninnadanrO!' The only different version I have heard is Rajkumar Bharati's.

The popular tIrAdda viLaiyAttu piLLai was once again tuned for a movie version with Kamala in a double role dancing to it as both Radha and Krishna.

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:45

vasya10 wrote:Though I agree the lyrics are what really matters, and I dont dispute changing ragas, it would probably be an insight into bhArathiyar's moods & feelings if these songs are rendered in the same ragas as set by the poet.

I fully endorse this view.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 05 Dec 2006, 16:22

kaumaaram wrote:
vasya10 wrote:Though I agree the lyrics are what really matters, and I dont dispute changing ragas, it would probably be an insight into bhArathiyar's moods & feelings if these songs are rendered in the same ragas as set by the poet.
I fully endorse this view.

I remember hearing an item in Sindhubhairavi by O.S.Arun, a bhajan I think. He remarked that had he retuned it in Ataanaa, (and gave us a sample), he'd feel as if it's insulting...and no one disagreed. Having said that, very often, re-tunings provide very unique interpretations of items, and even sound a lot better than the original or seem more suited to the lyrics - perhaps why I don't understand why there are other people out there who dispute the changing of rAgAs in compositions.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Dec 2006, 17:23

Did bharathiyar learn atleast fundamentals of Carnatic Music?? I thought his interest is always centered primarily on literature and poetry.If that is the case ,how could he have tuned his compositions?
Throw some light please...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Dec 2006, 18:12

rrao.
I have just moved your post on Purandar Dasa to the relevant thread under Vageeyakaras-Puranadara Dasa compositions.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for participating.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 05 Dec 2006, 20:29

bharati was well versed in CM and HM. in fact meetings in the marina beach during freedom struggle will not start without his songs. the crowd used to demand that he should sing first before any speakers start. many of the songs which he composed were actually sung by him. there are also many articles by him with indepth analysis of CM.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 05 Dec 2006, 20:35

Mahakavi Bharathiyar was very well versed in CM according to articles I've read. He wrote a very moving eulogy when Subbarama Dikshitar passed away. I *think* I have the text somewhere at home, I will see if I can fish it out.

Edited to add ... I just found the following doing a Google search.

Subrahmanya Bharati's elegy can be found in most anthologies of his verse.
It runs to about 30-35 lines; here is an ~ translation of a small section:

With Karna went charity
Arjuna took valor
Poesy departed with Kamban,
they say;
With Subbaraman went music,
may we say.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Dec 2006, 23:52

The relationshp between Bharathi and Subbarama Dikshitar was probably cultivated during their Ettayapuram days.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Dec 2006, 01:19

In one of the tributes to bhArati telecast by Madras DD (when it was Madras, and DD was black and white), his daughter (forget which one - probably the younger) reminisced about how, sometimes, in the evening, he would sit on the Unjal and sing and compose...so, I am sure he set the songs to music...I have 2 publications of his compositions, and in both, some, but not all songs have a specified rAga and some even have the rasA(s) that has/have to be evoked (or that he intended to evoke):
For instance, this is what comes under kaNNammA, yen kuzhandai (chinnanchiru kiLiyE)
rAgam: bhairavi, tALam rUpakam
parAshaktiyai kuzhandaiyAgak kaNDu Solliya pATTu

ss ls-s- lls- l-ppp ll
dn ld-pd llp- lp---ll
pp lp-pd llp- lpm-- llgr ll s--- ll
rg lm-rg llr- ls--- ll
yenru swara variSaigaLai mAdiriyAga vaittukkonDu manObhAvappaDi mARRi pADuga.

Now, AFAIK, the book claims that it has published the notes from the poet/composer himself...so, this means, that bhAratI himself set some (not all) of his songs to music. Also, the part about 'manObhAvappaDi mARRi pADuga' can be interpretted as license to change the rAgam...

I can post some of the other songs and the 'original' rAga they were composed in, if there is any interest. For instance, I was amazed to figure that 'ASai mug(kh)am marandu pOcchE' (which to me serves as the benchmark for jOnpuri) was set to bilahari by the composer...I am not sure if bilahari would have brought out the pathos of the song as well as jOnpuri does...bilahari to me is the sprightly rA rA vENUgOpAlA...or srI chamuNDISwarI...not the lament of ASai mugam marandu pOcchE....

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Dec 2006, 03:49

I can post some of the other songs and the 'original' rAga they were composed in, if there is any interest.

Pl. do

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Dec 2006, 07:08

Meena,
Here are a few examples.
l) kaNNan yen kAdalan -1
rAga: senchuruTTi
tALa: tiSra Eka
rasa: SringAra
tUNDir puzhuvinai pOl - popularized by DKP in a movie (sung as rAgamAlika) - Kamala's dance!

ll) kaNNan yen kAdalan -4
tangapATTu meTTu (I assume this is some sort of folk melody/rhythm)
rasa: SringAram, and roudram
kaNNan mana nilaiyai tangamE tangam, kaNDu vara vENDum aDI tangamE tangam...
Nityasree sings it in rAgamAlika in her Golden Marvels CD

lll) kaNNan yen kAdalan -5
rAga: bilahari
rasa: viraha
ASai mugam marandu pOcchE....
Currently sung in jOnpurI

lV) kaNNammA yen kAdalI -1
rAga: senchuruTTi
tALa: Eka (chatuSra I presume)
rasa: SringAra, adbhuta
SuTTum vizhi SuDardAn kaNNammA
Sung by Sudha in her Bindumalini CD in rAgamAlikA (bhImplAs, behAg and kAnaDA)

V) kaNNammA yen kAdalI -5
rAga: SenchuruTTi (seems a favorite!)
tALa: Adi
rasa: SringAra
tIrtha karaiyinilE terkku mUlaiyil Senbaga tOTTattilE...
Never heard this sung - it was wonderfully recited by Kamala Hasan in 'varumaiyin niram sigappu'

Vl) sutantira dAgam
rAga: khamAs
tALa: Adi
yenDru taNiyum yengaL sutantira dAgam
Trichy Lokanathan sang it in sechuruTTi in one of the movies (kappal OTTiya tamizhan?)

Vll) sutantira perumai
'tillai veLiyilE kalanduviTTAlvar tirumbiyum varuvArO' ennum varNameTTu - no clue what this is...
vIra sutantiram vEnnDi ninrAr...
Sung in senchuruTTi by KBS in a CD by carnatica - Doyenns of CM....

Vlll) kalaimagaL tudi
rAga: Anandabhairavi
tALa: chApu
veLLai tAmarai pUvil iruppAL
Sung by MMI, Smt MSS, Nityashree and Sowmya in bhImplAs

lX) nandalAla
rAga: yadukulakambhOj(d)I
tALa: Adi
kAkkai SiraginilE nandalAla
Nityashree sings it in Sivaranjini and Priya Sisters in darabArI kAnaDA. Rajkumar Bharati may sing it in YK...

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Dec 2006, 10:23

thanks shankar

Sung in senchuruTTi by KBS in a CD by carnatica - Doyenns of CM....

KBS---sundramabal ?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Dec 2006, 12:06

Yes, Meena.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Dec 2006, 12:09

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/t8r7

Ravi - Rajeshnat- Films Divison Clip - one that you can see only with eyes closed (mp3 version):)

meena · Post by **meena** » 08 Dec 2006, 05:11

meena · Post by **meena** » 03 Mar 2007, 08:56

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 19 Apr 2007, 09:05

Need some help - I am new to this forum, could someone please tell me where I can find the lyrics for Shivashakthi Koothu by Bharathiar....Thanks

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Apr 2007, 17:21

Check this website: Song # 7 is SivaSakti kUttu - you can get the words from there - if not, Lji can help!

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:50

rshankar wrote:Check this website: Song # 7 is SivaSakti kUttu - you can get the words from there - if not, Lji can help!

Hello Shankar, thanks for your response...could you please let me know tehe website you were talking about...is it rasikas or any other website...?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:03

srs2;
rshankar means : go to the sahitya & identification topic, click on websites for lyrics, and post #3 there mentions the URL for Subramanya Bharathi. When you click on that URL you get Bharathi's songs page. It has 4 pages and you can click on the song you want for the lyrics. I don't see the shivasakthi kUttu song there. Maybe I missed it. If you don't find it either let me know and I will post it.

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:38

I checked the website...wow it is really wonderfull ! but unfortunately I didn't find shivasakthi kUttu there, could you please post the lyrics...that will be really helpful? Thanks !

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:03

srs,
Are you referring to the song beginning with 'veDipaDu maNDa'?

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:13

The song itself is sivasakthi koothu, I can post the link for Music India Online where the song is available...is it allowed here?

meena · Post by **meena** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:26

srs2

sure u can post MIO link here.

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:46

This is the song I was referring to - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... ragam.622/

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 20 Apr 2007, 01:23

Is this what you are looking for?

shakti shaktI shaktI. no given rAgA or tALA.

1: shakti shaktI shaktI shaktI shaktI enrEdu shakti shaktiyenbAr shAgArenrE enrEdu
2: shakti shaktiyenrE vAzhdal sAlbA nammai sArndIrE shakti shakti enrIrAyil shAgA uNmai sErndIrE
3: shakti shakti enrAl shakti tAnE sErum kaNDIrE shakti shakti enrAl veTri tAnE nErum kaNDIrE
4: shakti shakti enrE sheidAl tAnE sheigai nErAgum shakti shakti enrAl ihdu tAnE mukti vErAgum
5: shakti shakti shaktI shaktI shaktI enrE ADOmO shakti shakti shaktI enrE tALam koTTiyp-pADOmO
6: shakti shakti enrAl tunbam tAnE tIrum kaNIrE shakti shakti enrAl inbam tAnE sErum kaNDIrE
7: shakti shakti enrAl selvam tAnE Urum kaNDIrO shakti shakti enrAl kalvi tAnE tErum kaNDIrO
8: shakti shakti shaktI shaktI shaktI shaktI vAzhI nI shakti shakti shaktI shaktI shaktI vAzhI nI
9: shakti shakti vAzhIyenrAl sampattellA nErAgum shakti shakti enrAl shakti dAsanenrE pErAgum

thanjavur · Post by **thanjavur** » 20 Apr 2007, 01:35

The song is Thaga thaga thaga thaga thagavenraadomo - Sivasakthi Kootthu (Bharathiar)

(Sangeethapriya link : contribution - TVG)
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~tvg/045. ... 1.27MB.mp3

According to http://www.karnatik.com/ragass.shtml#shivashakti it was tuned in
Raga Sivasakthi by Lalitha Sivakumar (teacher and mother of Nithyasree Mahadevan).
________________________________________________________________________

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:00

takat takat taka. rAgA: shivashakti/behAg.

P: takat takat takat takatakavenrADOmO shiva shakti shaktiyenru pAdOMO
C1: agatta shuddagattinilE uLninrAL avaL ammaiyammai emmainADu poivenrAL
takat taka namakkaruL purivAL tAlonrE sharaNamenru vAzhndiDuvOm nAmenrE
2: pughappu kappukavinbamaDA pOdellAm purattinilE taLLIDuvAi shUdellAm
guhaikku engE irukkudaDA tI pOla adu kuzhandai adan tAyaDikkIzh pOi pOlE
3: mighanda kaippaDu kaLiyinilE meishOra un vIram vandu shOrvai venru kaitEra
jagattiluLLa manidarellAm nanru nanrena nAm shadiruDanE tAnamishai piraNDumonrEn
4: indiranAr-ulaginilE nallinbam irukkudenpAr adanai ingE koNDEidi
mantiram pOl vENDumaDA shollinbam nallamadamuravE amuda nilai kaNDEidit-

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:11

P: tagat tagat tagat tagatagavenRADOmO?--siva
sakti sakti saktiyenRu pADOmO?

C1: agattagat tagaittinilE uL ninRAL--avaL
ammaiyammai emmai nADu poyvenRAL
tagattaga namak karuL purivAL tALonRE
saraNamenRu vAzhndiDuvOm nAmenRE (taga)

C2:pugappugaP pugavinbamaDA pOdellAm
puRattinilE taLLIDuvAy sUdellAm
guhaikkuL angE irukkudaDA tI pOlE--adu
kuzhandaiyadan tAyaDikkIzh sEypOlE (taga)

C3: migattagaippaDu kaLiyinilE meysOra--uLa
vIramvandu sOrvaivenRu kaitEra
sagattiniluLLa maniderallAm nanRu nanRena--nAm
sadiruDanE tALam isai iraNDumonRena (taga)

C4: indiranA rulaginilE nallinmbam
irukkudenbAr adanaiyingE koNDeydi
mandiram pOla vENDumaDA sollinbam--nalla
madamuRavE amudanilai kaNDeydit ( taga)

Nityasri does not sing the C4 given above.

thanjavur · Post by **thanjavur** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:13

All the links below are from Tamil Virtual University of Govt of Tamil Nadu

Here is the song Thaga thaga (Sivasakthi Kootthu),
http://www.tamilvu.org:8080/slet/l9100/ ... .jsp?id=52

You need the three fonts (for Windows) in this page,
http://www.tamilvu.org/coresite/html/cwfontins.htm

After installing the fonts and restarting Firefox,
do the following in Firefox
View >> Character Encoding >> Western (ISO-8859-1) or Western (Windows-1252)

and here are lyrics for all Bharathiar songs,
http://www.tamilvu.org/library/l9100/html/l9100ba1.htm
__________________________________

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:18

Lakshman;
Our posts crossed. I posted my version from the book. Couple of corrections may be needed in your version.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:25

srs2,
I apologize for leaving out the website: it is - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=126222
Babu Parameswaran has it ready to be danced: he has also sung it in SivaSakti...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:02

Mahakavi wrote:

Our posts crossed. I posted my version from the book. Couple of corrections may be needed in your version.

The version I posted is also from the book Bharatiyar Kavitaigal-Vanavil Prasuram 1983, page 77.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:21

The one I posted is from pUmpuhAr prasuram and I cross-checked it with the one from Indu publications. They both match.
Besides there are only 2 or 3 corrections needed in yours. One is obviously "sEY' instead of "pOi" that you have. tAy and sEy go together.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:35

To be more specific:
C1; first two words are as I gave. agattagat tagattinilE---deep inside
C2: it is "guhaikkuL angE"--there inside the cave
"tAyaDikkIzh sEy pOlE" -- like a child at the feet of its mother.
C3; it is uLa instead of "un"
Also "tALam isai iraNDum onRena'--rhythm and music(melody) both as one.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Apr 2007, 04:10

Every thing matches with what I have, but in C1, line 4, it is vAzhththiDuvOm nAm enRE (we will sing praise)...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 07:49

namakkaruL purivAL tALonRE saraNamenRu vAzhndiDuvOm nAm...

We will live our life by surrendering (worshipping) at the feet of Sakti who confers her grace on us.

To me "vAzhttiDuvOm" implies "we will praise". But why? After surrendering what is the need for praise? You only need the grace after surrender which is a given. Like the saying goes, "In order to understand someone, love them; then there is no need to understand them".

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 09:40

I checked the Thamizh virtual university reference that thanjavur gave. There saktik kUttu is given only in 3 caraNams but what is given in published book as C4 is given as C3 at the tamilvu.org site and C3 that we have given above is not at all there. In C1 they also give it as "vAzhndiDuvOm"
http://www.tamilvu.org/library/l9100/html/l9100.ba1.htm
click on saktik kUttu

srs2 · Post by **srs2** » 21 Apr 2007, 04:05

Thanks a lot for your response...