Convert Tapes to Digital Media

appu · Post by **appu** » 30 Apr 2008, 23:22

I stumbled upon a box of live recordings of yester year greats while cleaning out my mother's attic. About 300 full length concerts very neatly organized with names of artists, recording dates, song list etc. How can I convert from tapes to digital media for storing and sharing with music lovers.

Any suggestions appreciated.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 30 Apr 2008, 23:28

Dear Appu,
Where do you live? If you live in Chennai its very easy as there is a person & place still actively converting cassettes & spools there. We have been doing this for over 12 years. If you are in USA, I can do it here with some help from friends- the fungus & other problems I can easily handle in Chennai but not in USA- myself.
Please email me at [email protected] ASAP bec if they have to be sent to Chennai I have to locate persons who can take them there. Thanks, vkv my phone no. is 505-6612618

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 30 Apr 2008, 23:35

Dear Sir

The things needed for conversion are as follows :

1) One nice Tape player (without quality loss)
2) Ear Plug Out provision in Tape player
3) A stereo to Stereo cable for connecting Ear Plug Out with your Line-in in PC
4) A recording Software like Music Match Juke Box, Total Recorder, Switch Recorder, or any of the sound editors like Cool Edit Pro, Sound Forge, Audition, WaveLab, Wavepad, Audacity etc etc.
5) Then save the files as MP3 format in the arranged order into your system.

For actual recording you may have to do the following settings in the computer :

1) Open your volume settings from the System Tray
2) Go to recording options
3) Tick the line-in option for recording

If you want to convert as is where is condition you can use the Total Recorder or switch recorder.
If you want to edit the Hiss sounds, Hum noises then you may have to use Audio editors for both recording and removing hisses and noises.

Hope this is suffice.
I am using Adobe Audition 1.0 for all my conversion.
A bit slow but It is pretty good.
One of my friend uses Total Recorder for conversions and also for live concert recordings through his laptop (Direct out from the Amplifier).

I even used to do simultaneous recording and saving.
For this you may need two editors like wavelab and wavepad
u hv to keep open both the windows
and once the song is over just stop in one window and start in the other window .. so that you need not stop the tape each time (since when u stop that sound also gets recorded then you may have to edit).

Actually wavelab is fantastic since it allows for unlocked windows which means u can continue recording after stopping. once you stop the recording you will be seeing the waves behind the recording window, which will also be active for you to save, while the recording window will also be active for you to continue recording.

May be i can give you more inputs (as i am experienced for quite a number of years in this type of work) after getting some feed back.

You can even download freecorder from www.freecorder.com but there is only one restriction you cannot record for more than 30mts at a stretch. This directly converts the input to MP3 file but in 64KBPS output. Generally MP3 format files are done in 128KBPS and hence i would advise you to use the other softwares discussed above.

Musicmatch juke box takes some time to get accustomed to its interface. I found total recorder to be an easy way out or switch recorder.

If you search in the net you may find host of free recorders.
I have even tried recording the files in wave format and then later convert them into MP3 using switch convertor.

Options are endless.
softwares are also abundant.

Hope i have given u a bit of direction..

MANNARKOIL J.BALAJI

manvantara · Post by **manvantara** » 30 Apr 2008, 23:55

mridhangam, THANKS for your input!
I have a bunch of cassettes - back from the days when I learnt from Smt.Savithri Satyamurthy, that I have been meaning to convert to CD/mp3.
I am going to get started on this - I know the initial setup will take some time, but it will be worth the effort, as I have some 200 or so cassettes!

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 01 May 2008, 04:20

A good device is "inport" and is worth the few dollars - http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_inportdl.htm. I have used it to convert several tapes and if the tape recorder is good, it provides a noise-free recording.

appu · Post by **appu** » 01 May 2008, 11:22

Vyasa10

The link you provided is not working. Please check and see if the link is correct.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 01 May 2008, 11:24

just remove the . at the end of the link. It should be just http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_inportdl.htm

rahm221 · Post by **rahm221** » 02 May 2008, 08:18

Mohan

Is this available in Australia?

maniomani · Post by **maniomani** » 02 May 2008, 08:51

Recent post by coolkarni on 2008-02-04

Just bought a Cute taperecorder - Phiilips AZ 1856

Put in a casette.
Plug in a USB Pen Drive.
Play the tape and press USB Record.
And Lo you can have the audio Track as an Mp3 file in the Pen Drive.
But you have to play the tape in real time.

You can do the same with Audio CD too-It rips into Mp3 tracks.

At Rs 4800 , it is a great buy for guys with lots of tapes to convert and dont want to take the PC software route.
Nice to see Thermocole packing has given way to Paper Mash.
The Booklet is horrible , though.I had to spend over 2 hours to find out how to exactly do it.Willing to teach others.
Should be useful

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 02 May 2008, 13:15

To those digitising rare material: future generations may thank you for saving the files as WAV (CD quality) rather than MP3.

If you must save as MP3, then please prioritise quality over file size. That is, do not aim to get the maximum number of songs in the minimum amount of disk space. The resultant quality will be sadly lacking.

I am not an expert on this subject, but those who are serious about it may also find benefit in researching other compression formats which are said to take less away from the music, such as FLAC and OGG.

I'm sure most of you know this stuff anyway, but there are always newcomers to digital music storage, and some may read this thread...

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 02 May 2008, 13:47

after recording you can use mp3 cutter to cut the mp3. it is easy and easily you can make individual track. and it shows as graph and easy to make out where you coudl split. but it is very important that your cassetter player is also in a good condition and I prefer a auto reverse walkman for this. so i can stop the recorder after 90 min 0r 60 min as per the the cassette

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 02 May 2008, 15:06

after recording you can use mp3 cutter to cut the mp3.

The whole point of my preceding post is to suggest that you use something better than mp3. mp3 is for portability, carrying around in your pocket etc; not for archiving.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 02 May 2008, 22:36

Hi Nick.

why shoudl not mp3 be for archiving?

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 03 May 2008, 01:36

Dear g-m,
Allow me to be a little bit technical. The WAV format was used at the time it was because the sampling at 44.1khz was based on experioments done 30 years back that the range of hearing was 20 to 20000 cycles for the human ear for listening. But it was shown in later experiments that it was 15-2500 cycles(hertz) & the DVD Audio format refrlects that. The MP3. is a Compression Scheme IMPLYING that various frequencies are thrown away to make the files smaller. The implication is both the high & low ends are thrown away. The 128 sampling typically used is THE BARE MIIMUM ACCEPTABLE THRESHOLD for MUSIC. I f you listen to the DVD-AIDIO, WAV FORMAT & MP3(AT ANY SAMPLING LEVEL) with a GOOD system the Differences will both be striking & obvious.
So if you want to preserve the recordings with fidelity to the maximum extent possible - supposedly important in Archiving-MP3 is the worst way to do it. However if cost is criterion MP3 makes sense. It also makes sense if the original recording is at junk level from a technical music point of view. vkv

manvantara · Post by **manvantara** » 03 May 2008, 01:42

maniomani, do you know where coolkarni got this recorder? (Philips AZ 1856)

skandyhere · Post by **skandyhere** » 03 May 2008, 02:37

vkv43034 wrote:Dear g-m,
The WAV format was used at the time it was because the sampling at 44.1khz was based on experioments done 30 years back that the range of hearing was 20 to 20000 cycles for the human ear for listening. But it was shown in later experiments that it was 15-2500 cycles(hertz) & the DVD Audio format refrlects that. The MP3. is a Compression Scheme IMPLYING that various frequencies are thrown away to make the files smaller. The implication is both the high & low ends are thrown away.
vkv

VKV,

I'm assuming you meant 15-25000 cycles, and not 2500. (??)

If that is the case, then does it mean that the difference between mp3 and .wav formats would only be obvious in the higher frequencies between 20000 and 25000 cycles, and in a very limited way, between 15-20 cycles? I guess I'm missing something here. Can you please clarify?

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 03 May 2008, 03:12

skandyhere wrote:does it mean that the difference between mp3 and .wav formats would only be obvious in the higher frequencies between 20000 and 25000 cycles, and in a very limited way, between 15-20 cycles? I guess I'm missing something here. Can you please clarify?

With digital audio, there are two considerations - the sampling frequency (the higher the better); and the compression (no compression is best, lossless compression is equally good, and lossy compression depends on the quality of the method).

WAV uses 44.1KHz, which is fine for frequences under 22KHz; DVD-audio uses a range of sampling frequencies, many of which are 48KHz or higher.

MP3 is a compression algorithm that creates smaller audio files at the cost of losing some of the information. You can use MP3 at a number of sampling frequencies such as 44.1KHz, 48KHz or 96KHz; and you can specify the degree of compression using 128-bit, 256-bit, etc up to 320-bit.

If you use 96KHz sampling and 320-bit encoding for MP3, I doubt if you can tell any difference between WAV and MP3. However, your files will be enormous.

More realistically, 48KHz sampling and 256-bit encoding provides wonderful quality in my experience. On the other hand, there are those advocating 96KHz sampling and 320-bit encoding (larger files, slower access) and those who say 44.1KHz and 128-bit is plenty (smaller files, faster access).

Experiment with a few settings, see what you like, and find your own compromise between quality and file size.

If in doubt, go with higher quality and bigger file size...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 May 2008, 06:05

I'm glad to see that others have taken over with the technical answers.

I'd just add that lossy (means something is thrown away) compression, eg MP3, from the aesthetic point of view does not just mean loss of higher frequencies (I can probably no longer hear those frequencies anyway) but it also tends to leave the music sounding flat, lacking in dynamics (fewer accents, less difference between loud and soft). Many people report that they find lossy compressed music harder, more tiring, to listen to.

In purely practical terms, to convert tapes or cassettes to MP3s means having something mush more easily listened to. Perhaps even available rather than unavailable, and one can't argue with that! Which is why I mentioned future generations and rare material: archives probably deserve something better than MP3.

Archives also deserve to exist in at least two copies! Computer hard disks are not immortal. We do not know how long CDs and DVDs last, because they haven't been around long enough to tell yet. I suppose, ultimately, we have to accept that we live in an uncertain world!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 03 May 2008, 07:37

The Phillips tape recorder is avaialble with any Phillips Dealer in India
I bought it at Viveks.Mantra bought one too.

Here is a sample from a long forgotten set of tapes,converted on this beauty .Experts can help me identify the brilliant set of artists in this Full Bench Concert.
I only know the name of the vocalist.
Nick
The charm of archiving in CM has less to do with recording quality.It has more to do with searching for old dusty tapes , cleaning them, sticking them back if they are cut in the middle , cleaning the recording head more often if the the tapes are brownish etc.
Listen to this and you will get my point.It does not have morsing on the bench, but will still gladden you ,because of the konakkol ...And the Atana in the ragamalika section, if you like the raga, like me..

http://rapidshare.com/files/111408997/0 ... u-Todi.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/111411710/0 ... oncert.mp3

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 May 2008, 08:47

Thank you, Cool

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 May 2008, 09:13

One can only do the best possible when it comes to conversion, and then only that which is reasonable --- otherwise the journey becomes one of computer boffinery rather than listening to music!

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 03 May 2008, 10:19

nick H wrote:Archives also deserve to exist in at least two copies! Computer hard disks are not immortal. We do not know how long CDs and DVDs last, because they haven't been around long enough to tell yet. I suppose, ultimately, we have to accept that we live in an uncertain world!

I completely agree. (In fact, CDs and DVDs last only a few years on average - the stuff you burn on home PCs lasts just a couple of years or so.)

In my opinion, the best way to ensure that valuable music is preserved is to spread it widely and have it played and listened to by a lot of people who appreciate it. The internet has made this more possible even as industry forces are pushing to keep this from happening....

knrh05 · Post by **knrh05** » 05 May 2008, 00:37

http://rapidshare.com/files/111408997/0 ... u-Todi.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/111411710/0 ... oncert.mp3

coolkarni,
Who is the vocalist?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 May 2008, 03:14

Thanks Kji. That is great conversion from tape indeed. And content is just superb. Thanks.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 05 May 2008, 05:55

rahm221 wrote:Mohan
Is this available in Australia?

Yes it is - see http://www.minidisc.com.au/xitel-inport-p-295.html

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 May 2008, 07:47

knrh05
that was Madura N Krishnan
Mridangam - I have just got it identified as Umayalpuram Sivaraman.

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 13 May 2008, 16:27

appu wrote:I stumbled upon a box of live recordings of yester year greats while cleaning out my mother's attic. About 300 full length concerts very neatly organized with names of artists, recording dates, song list etc. How can I convert from tapes to digital media for storing and sharing with music lovers.

Any suggestions appreciated.

If youre on the lazy site of life try what is called
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DrKashyap · Post by **DrKashyap** » 18 Sep 2008, 14:03

Apart from unstability of storage device like cd, harddisk, flashdrive; does a mp3 file deteriorate over years ?

Any loss of quality on multiple copying ?

What is the practical way to clean lens of cd/dvd drive ?

Thanks in advance.

raja123 · Post by **raja123** » 21 Sep 2008, 19:41

Hi
My preferred recording software is mp3mymp3 available free at http://www.mp3mymp3.com/
The only problem is that it hogs cpu; so close it when you don't need it.
You can set it to copy in 128 or above for keepsakes and 64 or lower for mp3 players etc so that you can have twice the number of songs....
It can be used for a variety of related uses too..
@ DrKashyap - multiple copying does not lead to quality loss; the file itself doesn't deteriorate but physical media will deteriorate. best is to have multiple copies etc..
Regards
Raja