National Indian Music Competition 2008, Singapore.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
In Singapore, the National Indian Music Competition is held once every two years. This year, it took place between 2nd to 6th September. The competition is organised in a way that there are open and intermediate catagories for Veena, Violin, Mridangam, Tabla, Sitar, Flute, and Carnatic Vocal. The rules and regulations clearly stated in the registration booklet that each catagory must have minimum of five participants. As such, the Mridangam open catagory and Sitar Intermediate and Open catagories and Veena intermediate catagory were cancelled, due to insufficient participants. However, although there were only three participants for the Veena and Violin open catagories, they were not cancelled. During the preliminary rounds of the Veena open catagory, only one of the three participants, contestant 2, played comendably. However, two students were sent for the final rounds. Out of these two students, contestant 3, who played mediocrely during the preliminary performance is from a notable indian music institution in Singapore, her performance however, lacked proper shruthi and tala, yet she was sent for the finals. For the finals, both the performers had put RTP as one of their choices, but the judges (who are notable musicians from India, holding international awards and titles such as 'child prodigy') did not ask both the performers the RTP, but rather, other songs which consisted of Raga, Keerthana, Niraval and Kalpana Swara. Even then, contestant 2, who was asked Thulasi Thala in ragam Mayamalavagowla, played exceedingly well, with good fingering technique, shruthi and tala. Contestant 3, was asked Ammaravamma in ragam Kalyani. Her performance once again lacked the tala precision and the music did not flow; this was observed by many of the spectators. Yet, contestant 3 was awarded the first prize, while contestant 2 was awarded the second prize, although it was very obvious that contestant 2's performance was much better than that of contestant 3.
Last edited by kumarakshi on 16 Sep 2008, 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
-
bilahari
- Posts: 2631
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02
Kumarakshi, how was the judging for the other events (violin, vocal, etc)? From what I've heard of the NIMC in the past years, somebody or the other always feels slighted. But music competitions are inherently subjective and luck-based. Even in more objective contests like Science Olympiads and Spelling Bees, a certain amount of luck is needed to be given questions or words candidates are familiar with and strong in. To me, competitions like these provide a good learning experience, but should always be taken with a pinch of salt.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Bilahari,
Thanks for your reply. In the violin open category, there was only one contestant, out of three who was sent for the finals. The contestant was also from the same institution and he won the first prize, after playing Marive in Shanmugapriya. For carnatic vocal, the first and third prize winners were also from that institution, the first prize winner was asked RTP in Kambhoji and the third prize winner sang Nannubrova in Lalitha. It is true that there is some dissatisfaction amongst the results every year, and it is true that competitions have to be taken with a pinch of salt. However, this year's results, especially for the Veena open category were very openly unfair. It was very blatantly obvious who the better, and deserving contestant was.
Thanks for your reply. In the violin open category, there was only one contestant, out of three who was sent for the finals. The contestant was also from the same institution and he won the first prize, after playing Marive in Shanmugapriya. For carnatic vocal, the first and third prize winners were also from that institution, the first prize winner was asked RTP in Kambhoji and the third prize winner sang Nannubrova in Lalitha. It is true that there is some dissatisfaction amongst the results every year, and it is true that competitions have to be taken with a pinch of salt. However, this year's results, especially for the Veena open category were very openly unfair. It was very blatantly obvious who the better, and deserving contestant was.
-
jananee
- Posts: 272
- Joined: 30 Jun 2007, 12:27
While I would not like to comment on the results....I would like to commend NAC for holding such a competition every 2 years for Indian Classical Music and bringing such eminent judges from India. I think it is a fine way of encouraging our culture in a foreign land!
Last edited by jananee on 13 Sep 2008, 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
-
Nick H
- Posts: 9472
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
In UK, Croydon Music Festival, an enormous competitive festival covering the entire range of western classical and other musical skills, includes two (more now, I think) full days of sections devoted to Indian music. Each year they invite two judges, one from the Hindustani and one from the Carnatic communities.
Despite the change of judges each year, you will always hear rumours about what they "always do" --- and the rumours are contradictory too. They always favour certain established teachers; they always favour new teachers; they always favour repeat performers; they always favour new entrants; the same performers always win; performers didn't win this year because they won last; and so on and so on. All I can say for sure is that I entered twice, winning a prize the year I played well, and not winning a prize the year I played badly!
It's a small world, with jealousies and rivalries between the different schools and teachers, not to mention that between parents of competitors, anyway; competitions bring out the best in some and the worst in others.
My mother had a small business designing and making soft toys, which she sold to local gift shops. This was a small town (I think Indians would call it a village, with a population of around 4,000) and she was well known as something of a character, as well as for her toy-making skills, which were both artistic and professional in execution. One year she was invited to judge a local Womens' Institute Toy Making competition. She awarded the prizes to the best entrants, and gave kind and useful comments to all. They never asked her again, because she did not give the prizes to the people that always won.
It's easy to say that competitions should be entered for fun, without caring about the winning or the losing, but nobody likes to be treated unfairly, and, for a child it can be a very serious matter.
Most of the judging I have seen, in the very enjoyable days I used to spend at Croydon Festival (a 2-hr drive; it had to be fun to go at all), to my amateur eye was fair and reasonable, but that is certainly not true of all competitions.
What to do? All we can do is encourage the youngsters to enter for fun and practice. We can also be honest with them about the failings of their elders, just as much as teaching them to know that sometimes others may be better than them.
Competitions --- a great opportunity to be on stage under some pressure? A hotbed of jealousies and politics?
Ever open questions.
Despite the change of judges each year, you will always hear rumours about what they "always do" --- and the rumours are contradictory too. They always favour certain established teachers; they always favour new teachers; they always favour repeat performers; they always favour new entrants; the same performers always win; performers didn't win this year because they won last; and so on and so on. All I can say for sure is that I entered twice, winning a prize the year I played well, and not winning a prize the year I played badly!
It's a small world, with jealousies and rivalries between the different schools and teachers, not to mention that between parents of competitors, anyway; competitions bring out the best in some and the worst in others.
My mother had a small business designing and making soft toys, which she sold to local gift shops. This was a small town (I think Indians would call it a village, with a population of around 4,000) and she was well known as something of a character, as well as for her toy-making skills, which were both artistic and professional in execution. One year she was invited to judge a local Womens' Institute Toy Making competition. She awarded the prizes to the best entrants, and gave kind and useful comments to all. They never asked her again, because she did not give the prizes to the people that always won.
It's easy to say that competitions should be entered for fun, without caring about the winning or the losing, but nobody likes to be treated unfairly, and, for a child it can be a very serious matter.
Most of the judging I have seen, in the very enjoyable days I used to spend at Croydon Festival (a 2-hr drive; it had to be fun to go at all), to my amateur eye was fair and reasonable, but that is certainly not true of all competitions.
What to do? All we can do is encourage the youngsters to enter for fun and practice. We can also be honest with them about the failings of their elders, just as much as teaching them to know that sometimes others may be better than them.
Competitions --- a great opportunity to be on stage under some pressure? A hotbed of jealousies and politics?
Ever open questions.
-
cienu
- Posts: 2392
- Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:40
kumarakshi,
I can understand your anguish. However let me put forth a few points to keep in mind when a child is sent for competitions:
First the plus points:
1) The child learns a large number of compositions because of competition in various categories.
2) Learns to face an audience with judges (future critics
)
3) Normally there is a time limit for a song , so the child learns time management at a young age
4) Sees a number of youngsters of a similar age group performing and hence sets benchmarks.
5) A prize is a great motivation.
The minuses
1) The child may not win prizes in the competition
2) This could be because others sang well and were deserving winners
3) Maybe the child sang well but others sang better
4) The child sang very well but maybe someone who did not deserve got the prize
5) The time duration in competitions is too small for a manodharma based music like CM.
This could be because of :
1) The Judges listen to maybe 50 partcipants in the span of 3 hours and depending on when your child sang is an important factor. Towards the end the judges may be fatigued and this could effect their judgement. Spare a thought for them too
2) Maybe your child was very close to winning (maybe 4th or 5th) which may not be announced but since there are normally only 3 winners, this is a possibility
3)Distinctly unfair judgement : Possible , yes . But in todays world it tends to get exposed if this is happens too often. After all the parents and rasikas are equally discerning.
4) Judges are like umpires . Sometimes even the best ones makes mistakes. After all judgements are subjective.
How does a parent cope with this , keeping in mind that most parents may feel that their child deserved the prize?
1) Prepare the child mentally before the competition. This is absolutely important.
2) Tell him/her that results are immaterial. But give the best on stage
3) If the child is good , no "bad judgement" can stop a child from rising as a future star.
4) Keep in mind that competitions are different from concerts and a winner in competitions may or may not be a great concert performer.
5) Sanjay's Blog says it all. He has even been disqaulified and also won third prizes in some competitions. Where is he today? Right on top.. (Sometimes the 3rd prize and no prize is a blessing in disguise The learning you derive from this experience is exemplary )
So dont lose heart . Do not worry about prizes. Sometimes there may a real reason why the child did not get a prize. And lastly genuine talent will rise and you cannot keep them down.
Nick: That was a nice viewpoint.
I can understand your anguish. However let me put forth a few points to keep in mind when a child is sent for competitions:
First the plus points:
1) The child learns a large number of compositions because of competition in various categories.
2) Learns to face an audience with judges (future critics
)3) Normally there is a time limit for a song , so the child learns time management at a young age
4) Sees a number of youngsters of a similar age group performing and hence sets benchmarks.
5) A prize is a great motivation.
The minuses
1) The child may not win prizes in the competition
2) This could be because others sang well and were deserving winners
3) Maybe the child sang well but others sang better
4) The child sang very well but maybe someone who did not deserve got the prize
5) The time duration in competitions is too small for a manodharma based music like CM.
This could be because of :
1) The Judges listen to maybe 50 partcipants in the span of 3 hours and depending on when your child sang is an important factor. Towards the end the judges may be fatigued and this could effect their judgement. Spare a thought for them too
2) Maybe your child was very close to winning (maybe 4th or 5th) which may not be announced but since there are normally only 3 winners, this is a possibility
3)Distinctly unfair judgement : Possible , yes . But in todays world it tends to get exposed if this is happens too often. After all the parents and rasikas are equally discerning.
4) Judges are like umpires . Sometimes even the best ones makes mistakes. After all judgements are subjective.
How does a parent cope with this , keeping in mind that most parents may feel that their child deserved the prize?
1) Prepare the child mentally before the competition. This is absolutely important.
2) Tell him/her that results are immaterial. But give the best on stage
3) If the child is good , no "bad judgement" can stop a child from rising as a future star.
4) Keep in mind that competitions are different from concerts and a winner in competitions may or may not be a great concert performer.
5) Sanjay's Blog says it all. He has even been disqaulified and also won third prizes in some competitions. Where is he today? Right on top.. (Sometimes the 3rd prize and no prize is a blessing in disguise
The learning you derive from this experience is exemplary )So dont lose heart . Do not worry about prizes. Sometimes there may a real reason why the child did not get a prize. And lastly genuine talent will rise and you cannot keep them down.
Nick: That was a nice viewpoint.
Last edited by cienu on 13 Sep 2008, 23:13, edited 1 time in total.
-
vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
kumarakshi, It is easy to sense the pain in your postings. cienu has stated very eloquently the various dimensions of it.
- Regarding the fact that prizes went to students from a certain music school/institution, how many such institutions are there in Singapore? With respect to the participants, are they predominantly students from such institutions or students of private teachers?
- In the Veena competition that you refer to, it will definitely be troubling if top professional musicians from India showed favoritism and awarded the prize to an obviously 'not up to par' participant. I am wondering why they would do that. It is a lose-lose scenario for them since their reputation is their foremost asset.
- May be if recordings of the competition can be made available, members here can judge for themselves
- Regarding the fact that prizes went to students from a certain music school/institution, how many such institutions are there in Singapore? With respect to the participants, are they predominantly students from such institutions or students of private teachers?
- In the Veena competition that you refer to, it will definitely be troubling if top professional musicians from India showed favoritism and awarded the prize to an obviously 'not up to par' participant. I am wondering why they would do that. It is a lose-lose scenario for them since their reputation is their foremost asset.
- May be if recordings of the competition can be made available, members here can judge for themselves
-
jananee
- Posts: 272
- Joined: 30 Jun 2007, 12:27
I have my reservations on the point that judges favoured a certain institution As far as I know the judges are not informed which institution the contestants are from and whose students they are.
Cienu: good view point!
And it was not one judge's marks but cumulative scores. So really dont know how the rankings get wrong. Anyway if you feel so strongly about it did you try contacting NAC about it?
Cienu: good view point!
And it was not one judge's marks but cumulative scores. So really dont know how the rankings get wrong. Anyway if you feel so strongly about it did you try contacting NAC about it?
-
arasi
- Posts: 16873
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Cienu,
What you have written is a valuable guide for parents (first!) and to the children before they start going to competitions. I hope many of them get to read this.
Attitude, attitude, healthy attitude first. To be ready to appreciate talent in any child, for that matter. Not just your own alone! To realize that a competition is an exercise, not a do or die situation.
I can imagine the following scene and variations of the same:
Parent: Bad judges! The one in the red skirt sang better than the first prize winner. And they overlooked you!
The child: I did not sing well at all today, that was why...
Parent: Even on the worst possible day, your singing is far superior to what was dished out today...
And of course, there are other vicious pit bull hockey moms--with or without lipstick on the prowl
And there are those wonderful parents who tell their children--you don't compete against others, but against yourself--that you are going to get better every time you do that.
And if you think it didn't work out the way you wanted to today, so what? Even great performers have their 'off' days!
To those parents that the following applies: encourage but please do not take over. Let the child grow by your nourishing ways and find his/her own pleasure in competing
What you have written is a valuable guide for parents (first!) and to the children before they start going to competitions. I hope many of them get to read this.
Attitude, attitude, healthy attitude first. To be ready to appreciate talent in any child, for that matter. Not just your own alone! To realize that a competition is an exercise, not a do or die situation.
I can imagine the following scene and variations of the same:
Parent: Bad judges! The one in the red skirt sang better than the first prize winner. And they overlooked you!
The child: I did not sing well at all today, that was why...
Parent: Even on the worst possible day, your singing is far superior to what was dished out today...
And of course, there are other vicious pit bull hockey moms--with or without lipstick on the prowl
And there are those wonderful parents who tell their children--you don't compete against others, but against yourself--that you are going to get better every time you do that.
And if you think it didn't work out the way you wanted to today, so what? Even great performers have their 'off' days!
To those parents that the following applies: encourage but please do not take over. Let the child grow by your nourishing ways and find his/her own pleasure in competing
-
jananee
- Posts: 272
- Joined: 30 Jun 2007, 12:27
I have my reservations on the point that judges favoured a certain institution As far as I know the judges are not informed which institution the contestants are from and whose students they are.
Cienu: good view point!
And it was not one judge's marks but cumulative scores. So really dont know how the rankings get wrong. Anyway if you feel so strongly about it did you try contacting NAC about it?
Cienu: good view point!
And it was not one judge's marks but cumulative scores. So really dont know how the rankings get wrong. Anyway if you feel so strongly about it did you try contacting NAC about it?
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Jananee
Could of judges (among the 5) have been invited to singapore to give concerts on previous occassions. from the same institution, who could manage to get top prizes. So the judges know the students by institution, though not personally each of them. As per NAC rules from 1998 the musicians who have already visited singapore through some institutions for giving concerts, should not be invited as judges for their competitions. Especially the famous judges from veena (2 people) have already visisted singapore for concerts on previous occassions (2-3 times) through the same institution.
All the five judges have to be appreciated for being grateful to the institution.
The veena expert in particular have been contacted to ascertain about the unfair judgement. He was frankly put a question as to how the substandard peformer at the preliminary level was sent to final round at all. He could not give satisfying answer.
According to him, the spectators do not have good knowledge in carnatic music, compared to them as they are international award winners ..
But, the spectators are not fools that they cannot even know the participant did not stick to correct tala and shruti, did not bring out the continuous flow of the song, in the preliminary round itself. But still promoted to final rounds because she is from the same institution referred above. Even in final round the Tala was not appropriate and she did not finish the song in allocated time. For all these the CDS recorded have to be viewed by other experts again . But these recordings will not be released to public as they are confidential and would be retained by NAC only.
Then why the other contestant (3rd one)was disqualified in the preliminary round itself, inspite of comparitively better performance than this top prize winner? We do not know.
NAC is informed of this attoricity and have been represented. We have to wait and see what is NAC going to do.
Could of judges (among the 5) have been invited to singapore to give concerts on previous occassions. from the same institution, who could manage to get top prizes. So the judges know the students by institution, though not personally each of them. As per NAC rules from 1998 the musicians who have already visited singapore through some institutions for giving concerts, should not be invited as judges for their competitions. Especially the famous judges from veena (2 people) have already visisted singapore for concerts on previous occassions (2-3 times) through the same institution.
All the five judges have to be appreciated for being grateful to the institution.
The veena expert in particular have been contacted to ascertain about the unfair judgement. He was frankly put a question as to how the substandard peformer at the preliminary level was sent to final round at all. He could not give satisfying answer.
According to him, the spectators do not have good knowledge in carnatic music, compared to them as they are international award winners ..
But, the spectators are not fools that they cannot even know the participant did not stick to correct tala and shruti, did not bring out the continuous flow of the song, in the preliminary round itself. But still promoted to final rounds because she is from the same institution referred above. Even in final round the Tala was not appropriate and she did not finish the song in allocated time. For all these the CDS recorded have to be viewed by other experts again . But these recordings will not be released to public as they are confidential and would be retained by NAC only.
Then why the other contestant (3rd one)was disqualified in the preliminary round itself, inspite of comparitively better performance than this top prize winner? We do not know.
NAC is informed of this attoricity and have been represented. We have to wait and see what is NAC going to do.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Dear Arasi, and Cienu
Thanks for your wonderful feed back and tips.
When the children are prepared to take part in the competition, we see that they have balanced attitude to take the success and failure. Because it is competition.
However, when some unfair things take place openly, we cannot remain silent. Somebody should bell the cat to stop this happening in future to safeguard this wonderful art and also to bring up the real and deserving talents in this field. As you all know the future generation will lack sufficient t great musicians in respective field, as in the past, due to present day style of life.
Trying toSnub the real talents like this will only worsen this situation.
Hope you will agree.
Thanks for your wonderful feed back and tips.
When the children are prepared to take part in the competition, we see that they have balanced attitude to take the success and failure. Because it is competition.
However, when some unfair things take place openly, we cannot remain silent. Somebody should bell the cat to stop this happening in future to safeguard this wonderful art and also to bring up the real and deserving talents in this field. As you all know the future generation will lack sufficient t great musicians in respective field, as in the past, due to present day style of life.
Trying toSnub the real talents like this will only worsen this situation.
Hope you will agree.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Vasanthakokilam
Most of the prize winners are always from the same institution since the introduction of this competition since 1998. To put it more appropriatesly these winners are the children and kith and kin of this institutes committee members and top management people.
There are some students who learn from private teachers. Quite a no.of these students are previously the students of this big instituion. Having been treated unfairly as students itself, they switch to other small institutions or private teachers, to improve their capability and talent. But still when the competition comes, few students of this big institution manage top prizes.
Particularly in veena, the top prize winners have all previously been from a small institution which specialise in karaikudi style of playing (very rarely prevalent now a days) with excellent Kamagams in veena and the students also do singing of the song while playing the veena, to show the audience and judges that they are not playing the veena blindly without knowing the sahityam. The second prize winner is from this institution.
This year, this big instituion has taken extensive care to see that their student get the top prize, pushing being the deserving participant.
The CDS are not available to public for viewing as they are confidential and will be retained by the NAC Singapore.
Most of the prize winners are always from the same institution since the introduction of this competition since 1998. To put it more appropriatesly these winners are the children and kith and kin of this institutes committee members and top management people.
There are some students who learn from private teachers. Quite a no.of these students are previously the students of this big instituion. Having been treated unfairly as students itself, they switch to other small institutions or private teachers, to improve their capability and talent. But still when the competition comes, few students of this big institution manage top prizes.
Particularly in veena, the top prize winners have all previously been from a small institution which specialise in karaikudi style of playing (very rarely prevalent now a days) with excellent Kamagams in veena and the students also do singing of the song while playing the veena, to show the audience and judges that they are not playing the veena blindly without knowing the sahityam. The second prize winner is from this institution.
This year, this big instituion has taken extensive care to see that their student get the top prize, pushing being the deserving participant.
The CDS are not available to public for viewing as they are confidential and will be retained by the NAC Singapore.
Last edited by kumarakshi on 14 Sep 2008, 07:52, edited 1 time in total.
-
bilahari
- Posts: 2631
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02
Kumarakshi, I have certainly heard about a distinct bias towards SIFAS candidates, but I have always dismissed it thinking that there are probably more participants from SIFAS (given it's by far the largest institution) and hence a higher likelihood that they will collect the prizes. I'm glad you have raised your complaint to the NAC, and hope you provided specific observations in support of your claim. I find it rather suspicious, frankly, that recordings are "confidential." Why should they be?
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Bilahari,
Yes, it is rather strange that the recordings are held confidential. Contestant 2 returned the second prize she was awarded immediately because of the unfair judgment. A representation was given to NAC, and the affected participant's mother went in person to give it. Yet, nobody could provide ocular proof as to why contestant 3 deserved the first prize and contestant 2 deserved the second. The recordings, in particular preliminary rounds (to see how contestant 3 made it to the finals) should be atleast be reviewed, for us to make our own judgments, not like it's going to change the judges' desicion.
Just to add, the results of the final rounds were withheld for a few hours after the actual competition on stage, and only announced at the end of the prize presentation ceremony. A suggestion was given to NAC to allow the judges to deliberate for a few minutes, and then immediately announce the results (as in previous years) and also, give some critique (including plus and minus points) of the contestant's performance.
It is true that every year, there has been some unhappiness in the announcements of the results, and somehow, it's almost always been because of the same reason. Strange indeed.
Yes, it is rather strange that the recordings are held confidential. Contestant 2 returned the second prize she was awarded immediately because of the unfair judgment. A representation was given to NAC, and the affected participant's mother went in person to give it. Yet, nobody could provide ocular proof as to why contestant 3 deserved the first prize and contestant 2 deserved the second. The recordings, in particular preliminary rounds (to see how contestant 3 made it to the finals) should be atleast be reviewed, for us to make our own judgments, not like it's going to change the judges' desicion.
Just to add, the results of the final rounds were withheld for a few hours after the actual competition on stage, and only announced at the end of the prize presentation ceremony. A suggestion was given to NAC to allow the judges to deliberate for a few minutes, and then immediately announce the results (as in previous years) and also, give some critique (including plus and minus points) of the contestant's performance.
It is true that every year, there has been some unhappiness in the announcements of the results, and somehow, it's almost always been because of the same reason. Strange indeed.
-
Nick H
- Posts: 9472
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
I know nothing of the event concerned, and most emphatically do not speak of any particular group or individual when I say...
I am afraid that the bad side of this sort of event may be endemic, and simply can not be dealt with without starting again from scratch.
I do think that I have met a few good and impartial organisers, but I am also sure that the ethos that kumarakshi describes is far from rare. Any organising committee for such an event is likely to include vested interests, and a committee without politics and manipulation is a rare beast indeed.
I am afraid that the bad side of this sort of event may be endemic, and simply can not be dealt with without starting again from scratch.
I do think that I have met a few good and impartial organisers, but I am also sure that the ethos that kumarakshi describes is far from rare. Any organising committee for such an event is likely to include vested interests, and a committee without politics and manipulation is a rare beast indeed.
-
gaanalola
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 16:09
To my knowledge the judges in the competition were not informed about the institution the contestants are from. I do not think reputed musicians from India would want to spoil their reputation by showing favouritism.
Moreover, the institution you were referring to, won veena open category after 8 years. What about previous years when others won?
Moreover, the institution you were referring to, won veena open category after 8 years. What about previous years when others won?
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Hi
Thanks for your posting.
It is only a guess on your side. Since the institution under reference has not won for 8 years, it does not mean that they should be made to win this year, with any quality of performance.
Since 1998 the first prize in veena both in open and intermediate category go to the other small music institution, who are giving excellent coaching in veena on high standards and the performance of their students also are excellent in all competitions.
To put it more accurately, last competition (in 2006) under intermediate category the student from this institute (under reference) won 2nd prize. The veena teacher had to sit next to the participant on the stage itself, to keep up the tala, and this particular student used contact mike which is not as per the regulations set by NAC under its guidelines for competitions.
Thanks for your posting.
It is only a guess on your side. Since the institution under reference has not won for 8 years, it does not mean that they should be made to win this year, with any quality of performance.
Since 1998 the first prize in veena both in open and intermediate category go to the other small music institution, who are giving excellent coaching in veena on high standards and the performance of their students also are excellent in all competitions.
To put it more accurately, last competition (in 2006) under intermediate category the student from this institute (under reference) won 2nd prize. The veena teacher had to sit next to the participant on the stage itself, to keep up the tala, and this particular student used contact mike which is not as per the regulations set by NAC under its guidelines for competitions.
-
gaanalola
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 16:09
Kumarkshi
I don't want to comment about the performances in the competition,as I was not present there. I am writing this after reading your remarks, especially against noted musicians repectected by carnatic music lovers all over the world.
Every parent feels their child is best in the world. But they must also teach their children to accept defeat and work towards improving themselves. If somebody is talented, definetly they will be recognised and praises will be showered on them. Making negatives remarks about others may not earn you any respect.
If you want your child's performance to be heard may be you can make few recordings and load them on forums like this, music lovers can listen and can enjoy the music(just a suggestion from me).
I don't want to comment about the performances in the competition,as I was not present there. I am writing this after reading your remarks, especially against noted musicians repectected by carnatic music lovers all over the world.
Every parent feels their child is best in the world. But they must also teach their children to accept defeat and work towards improving themselves. If somebody is talented, definetly they will be recognised and praises will be showered on them. Making negatives remarks about others may not earn you any respect.
If you want your child's performance to be heard may be you can make few recordings and load them on forums like this, music lovers can listen and can enjoy the music(just a suggestion from me).
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
Dear Gaanalola
Thanks for your suggestion and I duly respect the same.
But however, sometimes, when something takes place openly in front of your eyes, let it be your child, or any other child, you have to be courageous to ask and bring it to the attention of this world. Let it be an ordinary person or famous musicians. All are first human beings, After that only comes the title. These musicians become famous only because of the Saraswathi kadaksham showered on them and they have to be honest at all times without desparity. If bringing this to the notice of all rasikas is making me to lose respect, let it be, as I am true to my conscious.
Since you were not present at the time, you will not know what exactly happened during the competitions.
Thanks for your suggestion and I duly respect the same.
But however, sometimes, when something takes place openly in front of your eyes, let it be your child, or any other child, you have to be courageous to ask and bring it to the attention of this world. Let it be an ordinary person or famous musicians. All are first human beings, After that only comes the title. These musicians become famous only because of the Saraswathi kadaksham showered on them and they have to be honest at all times without desparity. If bringing this to the notice of all rasikas is making me to lose respect, let it be, as I am true to my conscious.
Since you were not present at the time, you will not know what exactly happened during the competitions.
-
blackadder
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 23 Jul 2008, 19:27
kumarakshi:
At the risk of taking on the mantle of the devil's advocate, I have a few points for you to consider:
Your accusation of favouritism is based on the result of the competition which, as per your judgment, is unfair. Is there a possibility that perhaps the judges identified some spark in the winning participant that the others did not have? I am not condoning the ignoring of shruthi and tala, but there are top performers today who slip in live concerts. Maybe the manodharmam displayed, the approach to the raga or the rendition of the krithi appealed to the judges. Maybe.
Others in this thread have very clearly stated the purpose of competitions, the attitude to take when participating in these and how to take victory or loss with equanimity.
I have a couple of questions for you (do not get me wrong; I have no axe to grind with anyone and the questions are without malice):
Do you have any thing to substantiate your claim of favouritism?
Are you - or is someone known to you - a victim of this in this year's competition?
At the risk of taking on the mantle of the devil's advocate, I have a few points for you to consider:
Your accusation of favouritism is based on the result of the competition which, as per your judgment, is unfair. Is there a possibility that perhaps the judges identified some spark in the winning participant that the others did not have? I am not condoning the ignoring of shruthi and tala, but there are top performers today who slip in live concerts. Maybe the manodharmam displayed, the approach to the raga or the rendition of the krithi appealed to the judges. Maybe.
Did the judge actually make the statement that the spectators are not knowledgeable and the judges are because they are international award winners? If that was openly said, the judge needs to be drawn and quartered - no mercy. If it was implied, the import of the statement could be different for different folks, couldn't it?The veena expert in particular have been contacted to ascertain about the unfair judgement. He was frankly put a question as to how the substandard peformer at the preliminary level was sent to final round at all. He could not give satisfying answer.
According to him, the spectators do not have good knowledge in carnatic music, compared to them as they are international award winner...
Others in this thread have very clearly stated the purpose of competitions, the attitude to take when participating in these and how to take victory or loss with equanimity.
I have a couple of questions for you (do not get me wrong; I have no axe to grind with anyone and the questions are without malice):
Do you have any thing to substantiate your claim of favouritism?
Are you - or is someone known to you - a victim of this in this year's competition?
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
blackadder,
Yes the judge gave the direct answer, when i contacted him over phone on 8th September 2008 night.
The veena expert in particular have been contacted to ascertain about the unfair judgement. He was frankly put a question as to how the substandard peformer at the preliminary level was sent to final round at all. He could not give satisfying answer.
According to him, the spectators do not have good knowledge in carnatic music, compared to them as they are international award winner...
This is the direct answer to me from him. This is not a presumption or interpretation from his answer
For that I replied staing "MR.........I may not be famous or international award winner like you, but as spectator we do have some music knowledge, though not like you, and we can easily identify which participant adhere to correct tala and sruthi." and whose performance deserve higher grading."
The particpant affected this years competition is my life (my daughter) who did excellent in preliminary round and also equally in final round, but was snubbed to lower grade.
Yes the judge gave the direct answer, when i contacted him over phone on 8th September 2008 night.
The veena expert in particular have been contacted to ascertain about the unfair judgement. He was frankly put a question as to how the substandard peformer at the preliminary level was sent to final round at all. He could not give satisfying answer.
According to him, the spectators do not have good knowledge in carnatic music, compared to them as they are international award winner...
This is the direct answer to me from him. This is not a presumption or interpretation from his answer
For that I replied staing "MR.........I may not be famous or international award winner like you, but as spectator we do have some music knowledge, though not like you, and we can easily identify which participant adhere to correct tala and sruthi." and whose performance deserve higher grading."
The particpant affected this years competition is my life (my daughter) who did excellent in preliminary round and also equally in final round, but was snubbed to lower grade.
-
kumarakshi
- Posts: 18
- Joined: 12 Sep 2008, 11:24
-
bilahari
- Posts: 2631
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02
-
jananee
- Posts: 272
- Joined: 30 Jun 2007, 12:27
While wishing your daughter all the very best in the years to come kumarakshi....bilahari..i was also there at the finals of the competition. I did not think the rest of the results were atrocious. Like blackadder very correctly said while we looked at certain points the judges perhaps saw some other quality in the winners....even if there were mistakes and rewarded them. In a competition there are bound to be disputes. I guess the best attitude is to learn to come out of them not get affected too much and igf really really bad then take it up with the respective authorities. My stand still would be when 5 eminent judges are judging the competitions can there be such glaring mistakes? Would the judges really be botehred with petty politics?
Anyway since this discussion is closed i only wish to say all the best to the participant and wish better years ahead.
Anyway since this discussion is closed i only wish to say all the best to the participant and wish better years ahead.
-
gobilalitha
- Posts: 2056
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:12