Ramblings on God, Science, Poetry, Music, Divinity etc...

[rshankar]

This is something I posted at my school's alumni association group nearly 4 years ago, before I was part of the 'rasikas' family, in response to a discussion on Science, Religion and God, and if Science demystifies divinity. It was recently brought to my attention in some other context, and I thought that it might be worth sharing here as well, so I am posting some modified excerpts.

WARNING: This is a long and rambling post which follows my meandering mind through several flights of ideas.

The thing that stood out was the discussion between God and Science. I am not sure what the ultimate aim of that discussion was, but to me (a scientist) both are essential realities of life. It's a bit like the man who was asked to choose between "kalvi (education), selvam (money) or vIram (courage)" and he says that it is like choosing between "annai (mother), tandai (father), or deivam (god)" and asks "onrillAmal matrondru uruvAgumA, idil uyarvenrum tAzhvenrum pirivAgumA?" meaning one cannot exist without the others, and they cannot be ranked in the order of importance because they are all equally important. He goes on to say "ornai onru pagaitAl uyarvEdu, mUnrum orE iDattil irundAl nigar Edu?"...(if one entity competes with the other, it will not be productive, but if all three coexist, then, that situation will be unequalled!). Science, to me, is the human endeavor to understand the mystery and majesty of the divine, and when they stand side by side, the possibilities are simply awesome.

To illustrate using a concept that is very dear to my heart: the incredible pancreas! This fist sized organ that sits behind the stomach, in front of the spine is simply amazing. A tiny part of this organ senses the amount of glucose that is present in the blood in the portal system (to recap high biology, when we eat anything, the carbs are broken down to glucose, a process physiologists call digestion...and the glucose is absorbed into the portal blood, and the first stop is at the friendly neighborhood pancreas)...once it senses the glucose, the pancreas releases an exact amount of insulin (factoring the individual's sensitivity to insulin into the equation). The insulin and glucose then travel together in the portal blood, and the next stop is the liver, where a portion of the glucose is extracted and, under the influence of insulin, converted into glycogen for storage. The remaining glucose and insulin then travel to muscles and fat among other peripheral tissues. In muscle and fat tissue, as the cells process insulin, a very technical process called insulin signaling, small 'gates' are physically moved from the interior of the cell to the cell surface, and glucose enters the cells through these gates. Once the signal from insulin is extinguished, these gates are recycled and stored within the cell, available for use when the cells see the next bolus of glucose and insulin. Isn't this incredibly divine? The science part comes in the understanding of this process and the development of closed loop systems for patients with type 1 diabetes (they make no insulin because that part of their pancreas is destroyed)...the hope is that these systems will sense glucose, and a 'brain' will integrate this with the information about the individuals' sensitivity to insulin and direct a pump to deliver an appropriate dose of insulin. The distinction to make is that in this and other similar scenarios, the physician/scientist is merely TRYING to mimic the divinity of what God/nature created...he/she is not becoming or replacing God/nature - but he/she is surely making divinity manifest. I could go on for hours about this.

Divinity doesn't only shape the ends of women's skirts (what can I say? I stole this 'quote' from an essay of Phyllis Mcginley's in our 10th or 11th grade English text. She awoke the awe of language and the use of words in me)! I see divinity in many places...from Dr. Shetty's work to the smile on a baby's face when he sees his mother, from the symmetry of snowflakes to the colors in the sky. There are scientific explanations for all of this, but that makes these no less exalted, or exhilarating!

The divinity in poetry and music is what moves me the most: nothing can match Sri Tulsidas when he is stumped by the lord's beauty and, so, bereft of similes, he simply says: "raghuvar chabi ke samAn, raghuvar chabi baniyA" ["SrI rAma's (face) is the only thing that can (baniyA) equal (kE samAn) the beauty of SrI rAma's (raghuvar) face (chabi)] or, when, with utmost sincerity, he says 'mErO man hAr liyO jAnakI ramaNvA' [This husband (ramaNvA) of jAnakI has won (hAr liyO) my (mErO) heart/mind (man) - bringing up images of rAma wrestling with, and winning over the poet's reluctant heart as opposed to the poet losing his willing heart to rAma! ], or when the blind sUrdAs asks the lord to overlook his faults (prabhU, mErE avgun cit na dharO), because the latter claims to be impartial (sam darsI), and demands the union of his jIvAtmA with the paramAtmA, or when Sri arunNAcala kavi says of sItA "avaniyil illai IDu, avaLLukku avaLE jODu" (there is no one who can be compared to her, she is her own equal)...and the irony of the situation where this is set in the rAmanATakam is delicious...SUrpanakhA is describing sItA's beauty to rAvaN! The unparalleled scholarship of Dikshitar when he describes kAmAkSI of kAncIpuram as "EkAmrESa grihESwari", or the tender love and devotion of Tygaraja when he beseeches the lord to come very carefully "hetsarika gA rArA, hE rAmacandrA", or when mIrA says very simply 'gOpAl hai wOh ek, ban mein carAvE gaiyyAn' [Oh! He (wOh) is (hai) nothing more than a (ik) cowherd (gO pAl) who herds (carAvE) cows (gayyAn) in (mein) the forest (ban)] are yet more examples. The list is endless and I could go on forever. It can be argued that these examples represent the pinnacles of human achievement, but I believe that the recipe for such mind blowing stuff needs human endeavor and divine ordaining in equal measures......(a little bit like "SOkhiyon me ghOlA jAye phUlon kA SabAb, usmE phir milAyi jAyE thODi si SarAb" - "dissolve (ghOlA jAyE) the nectar (SabAb) of (kA) flowers (phUlOn) in (mein) some whimsy (SokhiyOn), and then (phir), you add (milAyi jAyE) a dash of (thODI sI) of wine/alcohol (SarAb)')!

And finally, when such potent lyrics are offered straight from an artist's heart, packaged in soulful music, or vibrant dance, then the combination is such that the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts, and no human can bear witness to this without their lives changing for the better in one way or another. But whatever the recipe, and however these dishes are prepared, the end result is that in all these instances divinity truly manifests.

Disclaimer:
The above represents just random thoughts that have come my way, and any flawed reasoning is mine and mine alone! PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE WITH ME! I would welcome that debate.

[Sathej]

Isn't this incredibly divine?

the physician/scientist is merely TRYING to mimic the divinity of what God/nature created...he/she is not becoming or replacing God/nature - but he/she is surely making divinity manifest. I could go on for hours about this.

I would like to differ there. I would say the physician may be mimicking divinity in such scenarios. But in various other scenarios, understanding the biochemistry/physiology goes way beyond divinity and sometimes surpasses it. Further, calling something such as this 'divine' IMHO may not be too appropriate as many of these things are well studied. Even if they aren't, people are making efforts to do so.

As for the divinity in art and music, that is something closer to divinity. But even there, I have a different take. It is an appeal to the senses. This requires more elaboration, I understand. Shall do so sometime.

But thats a very nicely written piece, rshankar. An interesting take on one of the most debated subjects. The famous chemist Peter W Atkins (most of us would have read his books at school/college) who revels in such topics as divinity vs science

Sathej

[VK RAMAN]

What ever we do in the service of God - ominipotent, omniscient and omnipresent - is divine. Comparing anything to anything lacks dignity and only brings disappointment and disagreement IMHO.

[Music]

As for the divinity in art and music, that is something closer to divinity. But even there, I have a different take. It is an appeal to the senses.
Sathej

There are different levels at which carnatic music could appeal to you. It doesn't appeal just to the senses. Goes far more than that. E.g. if you are listening to manodharma sangeetam, you appreciate it intellectually. If you listen to it while appreciating the lyrics, it touches your heart.

[knandago2001]

I’m reminded of Ronald C. Kahn’s concluding remark made at the Dr. Banting Memorial Lecture “I thank you all from the bottom of my pancreas – it is like thanking you from the bottom of my heart only it goes down much deeper!â€

[PUNARVASU]

That was a nice piece of writing rshankar.
Who was it who said
'Science without spirituality is lame
Spirituality without science is blind'?
IMHO, both go hand in hand.

[Sathej]

There are different levels at which carnatic music could appeal to you. It doesn't appeal just to the senses. Goes far more than that. E.g. if you are listening to manodharma sangeetam, you appreciate it intellectually. If you listen to it while appreciating the lyrics, it touches your heart.

Yes, true. I would include intellectual and heartfelt appreciation under 'appealing to the senses'. As I said, I need to elaborate it. Will do that sometime.
Sathej

[PUNARVASU]

Sorry I quote wrong. It is
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. by Albert Einstein.

[PUNARVASU]

Appeal to the head and appeal to the heart, I suppose

[arunk]

Nice and interesting stuff Ravi! Enjoyed reading it. It has now sent me off on a thread of thought : "What is it about something - that makes people claim/see/perceive divinity in it".

I am still on that train

Arun

[arasi]

Ravi,
I enjoyed reading your ramblings. As usual, your love for poetry and
song in all those languages you know, and the way you savor them comes through here. While some in your profession 'play God', you are searching for Him! Yes, I do think those who do mAnava sEvA (service unto the people) are instruments of God. Scientists, healers and the best of poets and other artistes too. You and I are inspired by bArati every time we read a line from him. Spirituality and creativity are compatible, and at best, they become one and the same and elevate us.

Sathej,
When that great moment happens, there are no senses involved as such, but one state of being--which is beyond comprehension (Ravi asks whether there is any logic in it all). It is a state of sheer joy, not distinguishable as one sense or the other. It is a step towards spirituality, however brief the duration of this state.
Whether it is a song, a verse or any other creative activity I am involved in, it gives me enough impetus to seek other creative and spiritual things that are within my reach. The best of them prompt me to go on a search for loftier things and with my limitations, if I don't soar higher, I can at least manage to stay at the level I am at!

Punarvasu,
Your so-called misquote is better for these times. When Einstein said it, he meant the same too. Religion was not a flammable word as it is today!

Arun,
Lucky you! You are already on that train. Most of us are still waiting to board it

Waiting for CML, Govindan, VK, Cool (with a fantastic story), Cienu and all others to join in...

[rshankar]

I would like to differ there. I would say the physician may be mimicking divinity in such scenarios. But in various other scenarios, understanding the biochemistry/physiology goes way beyond divinity and sometimes surpasses it. Further, calling something such as this 'divine' IMHO may not be too appropriate as many of these things are well studied. Even if they aren't, people are making efforts to do so.

Sathej,

First of, thanks!

It was exactly this that prompted to put down these thoughts many years ago - the idea that something that is mysterious can be divine, but once we understand it, it becomes different. I look at it from the opposite way - the more we understand these things, and how processes work at cellular and subcellular levels, the more amazing it gets for me. How some systems are riddled with redundancies, while others rely on a few critical elements to work - all of this is inspiring, and to me that is divinity! I guess we each have individual defintions of 'divinity' (So, Arun, maybe there is no common factor in answer to your question!)

Arasi,

Thanks - Yes, bhArati inspires, sustains, rejuvenates, heals and restores!

Punarvasu,

Thanks! And that quote from Einstein was superb!

Nandagopal,

I can see Ron saying that. I missed that ADA though! And the wag in the audience (wonder if it was Polansky) was absolutely correct - many careers have been built on the predictability of the pancreas.

Arun,

Thanks..and maybe you are on a ride to nowhere!

[PUNARVASU]

Arun,

Thanks..and maybe you are on a ride to nowhere!

Or is it one with a reurn ticket and one comes back where one started from!

Arasi,when I read what you wrote to Sathej, I am reminded of a story from Ramkrishna Paramahamsa.
It seems a man went to him seeking 'deeksha' for meditation. The Guru advissed him to think of his favourite God and close his eyes and concentrate.The man came back within a short time saying that he can not concetrat as lots of thought are coming into his mind.Guru sent him again and asked him to try;he again came back with the same complaint.Then the Guru asked him what thoughts come to his mind and he said that they were all about his buffallo. The Guru then told him to close his eyes and concentrate on his buffallo. The man went back and for hours he did not return.When the Guru called him out ,he said 'I can not come out becaause my horns are blocking the door'.
The guru then said 'you have mastered the art of meditation'. It is said 'yadbhAvam thadbhavathi'-as you think o you become.
According to me music is a form of meditation-whether you are the performer or the listener. When IT happens it is absolute BLISS!
Sorry for my long ramblinbgs;sometimes when I read some of these inspiring postings ,such thoughts come to my mind and I can not but put them into words and post here.
Thanks

[coolkarni]

Arasi
Smacking my lips , but these days cool gets warm only on weekends.Blame it all on China , Steel, Crude Prices.......
But I am enjoying the reading bit, nevertheless.Keep it on.

[vasanthakokilam]

Fantastic Ravi. Well written. Each point is worth thinking over and you have packed it with such thought provoking stuff.

Another example of a sense of awe as we learn more is: how each cell was once capable of doing everything, paramathmic if I may, and then later on depending on where it gets physically located and the scaffolding around it, it does its specific (jeevathmic) duty.

Secondly, we wonder about how nature's designs sometimes resemble human designs, (as in how the brain is like a computer and Ravi's description of the glucose/insulin system brings to mind how a big chemical factory is organized).

May be human brain thinks of stuff along the same lines as the "original design". If that is the case, we can look at some very innovative and cool things humans have done and use that to probe and understand nature's designs. And we can use this observation/speculation to unify the experiences of scientists and artists/rasikas.

The key to that unification is to extend this observation beyond physical designs to the creative domain as well: Arts, poems, literature and of course Music. These human creations are indeed reflections and expositions of some deep designs in nature. We are to find them and therein lies the journey. This is not just abstract philosophy. For example, the human ear is designed to sense stuff in a logarithmic way and our brain is attuned to that. So the music we produce, which we find soothing and pleasurable, which is organized in octaves is related to the logarithmic sense organ the ear is. Why is SA GA PA pleasurable? I do not know but there may be something in nature's designs that will explain this.

Summarizing, humans designed the computer and then find out that brain's operations are similar, humans designed chemical processing plants and then find that at the cell level the operations are similar. In some computer operating systems, the methods used to create processes is sort of similar to how stem cell differentiation happens ( start exactly alike and then become what it should be ). May be, human creations in arts also have a counterpart in how are put together and we are yet to find it.

Looping back, that may also be the reason why we feel divinity in arts and science. It may not just be subjective or metaphorical. It IS divinity if you define divinity as the deep designs within nature. We may not be doing anything new, we are just manifesting in the macrocosm what Nature already does in the microcosm. Using these creative domains, we are getting in touch, or "in groove", with that deep natural design. When such convergence happens, we feel the divinity. It is probably a trial and error process, a hit or miss kind of probing and when we hit it, we know it.

In this sense, both scientists and artists/rasikas alike derive atmost pleasure and great satisfaction from their work for the same fundamental reason, namely doing something similar to and compatible with nature's built in designs. When we "hit" it, then there is a natural beauty, simplicity and completeness, and an overall feeling that everything fits together nicely and it feels just right. "sheer joy" as arasi puts it may fall in this category.

[Sathej]

Sathej,
It is a state of sheer joy, not distinguishable as one sense or the other. It is a step towards spirituality, however brief the duration of this state.

'Sheer joy', step towards 'spiriuality, those I believe are subjective and would require more definitions. But then certain things might not be definable at all and that is the reason why they remain subjective and opinions differ vastly.

Rshankar,
Yes, divinity is seens differently by different people. There are some who perceive it in the unexplained things, some who perceive it once things are explained (be it at the cellular/molecular level), some who perceive it in everything and some others who don't perceive it at all as they don't find a need for it.

Sathej

[knandago2001]

yet another perspective: "poetry and music are visitations of divinity on humanity"
http://chennaionline.com/columns/variet ... icle07.asp

[vgvindan]

the idea that something that is mysterious can be divine, but once we understand it, it becomes different.

Arasi,
Let me ramble my mind before I can butt in.

rs,
However, in regard to this quote -
It is a mystery till resolved - when resolved it is known; but, in reality neither there exists a mystery - nor resolution - nor known. It is all our mental states about an object. The object remains unaffected by the three states - mystery - resolution - knowledge.

[sbala]

Sorry I quote wrong. It is
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. by Albert Einstein.

As far as I have read, Einstein did not believe in religion or someone sitting up there and watching over us. He believed in the existence of underlying forces or design behind the universe and he was in awe of that. That was his concept of God. In his absence, both theists and atheists have used his quotes to support their stance. I don't think he was in either of those camps.

[vs_manjunath]

rshankar- Nice Article.When we observe Nature, we find innumerable examples of Laws of Creation. Humans are one SPECIES among so many, many species which exists harmoniously in nature. What a variety in each species. On Land, Above the land & Below the land we have wonders to admire. Although an individual human soul is insignificant in human population SEE AN INDIVIDUAL'S EGO ?

Let us just take the example of herbivorous & carnivorous animals.

Nature has provided HORNS for Herbivirous animals for self defence, whereas Carnivorous animals as they are powerful enough have been deprived of horns. One can go on like this admiring nature. SUN & MOON daily perform their duties SILENTLY without whom Nature can't survive. Can we attribute DIVINITY for Nature's Creation ??

[rshankar]

VK...Thanks! Food for though! maybe this is what bhArati meant when he said 'tani oruvanukku uNavillai yenil...' - maybe he meant food for thought as well!

VGV,

You made my point more elegantly - mystery does disapperar when something is 'explained', and should not be mistaken for 'divinity', which can persist despite the 'explanantion' (or maybe because of the 'explanation'?) in many instances, at least for me!

[rajeeram]

rshankar,

Very interesting write-up on some of the knottiest questions. Any parent of a 5 -year old will know how hard it is to explain God(or godliness) in a manner consumable to a highly curious and logical young mind in the face of relentless questioning. And if you have already talked about evolution, it's even harder when questions like "Do animals have God? Do they pray? Is there a Dog God? Mom, you said man came from ape, did the first man come from a female ape? Or did a woman come from a female ape? When man was ape, did he pray?Who was the first person to die? Did that person go to Heaven and meet God? " It's a court martial that ends with, "It's time for bed, we will talk about this tomorrow.":-)

A side note here. Yesterday there was an obit in NYT on Sir John Templeton who instituted the Templeton prize to award work on "progress toward research or discoveries about spiritual realities.". It's recipients include Billy Graham, the preacher and Freeman Dyson, the theoretical physicist. (Of course, there are a lot of people who believe there is no cross-section between science and religion and hence the prize itself is controversial.)

http://tinyurl.com/6y3j5x

Science is experimental where as divinity is experiential. Also we are constricted by the limitedness of our language to express what it is that we feel when we are immersed in music or when we make a breakthrough in our understanding of something previously unknown.

Books like Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and "The Selfish Gene" can make one go through thoroughly confusing phases (my own experience ) with their powerful arguments on the absolute non-essentialness of the God concept. But then, personally speaking again, experience does win over. As rshankar pointed out with many examples, there are experiences all of us go thorough that are, for a lack of a better word, divine and one feels absolute gratitude for being alive at those moments.

It's wonderful to read all the insightful comments here.

[vgvindan]

As far as I have read, Einstein did not believe in religion or someone sitting up there and watching over us

sbala,
Hindu philosophy has long back dethroned Gods in Heaven. The concept of 'brahman' - a name given to ultimate reality - some call it 'viSNu' - sadASiva - is not about some God sitting in the 'so called' heaven. It represents the 'state of existence', 'being' which is beyond sensory - mental - intellectual perceptions - manO-vAcAm-agOcara.

All scientific enquiries are within the realm of perceptions.

[PUNARVASU]

Rajjeram, well put; I was trying to put it in words;somehow couldnt get the right ones. You did it.

[rshankar]

I am really enjoying these discussions!

[ragam-talam]

To paraphrase Descartes' famous saying: "I think, therefore God is"
God is a mental concept. Drop your mind, and god ceases to exist.

[arasi]

Drop your heart, and he ceases to exist too??
The next question: do non-human beings have a mind? Heart too? If they
do, do they have a god? Do they have one even if they don't?

[VK RAMAN]

Was there an experimentation to prove that music helps in agriculture and vegetation? Non humans supposed to possess intuition; is that not mind function?

[vs_manjunath]

Drop your heart, and he ceases to exist too??
The next question: do non-human beings have a mind? Heart too? If they
do, do they have a god? Do they have one even if they don't?

Yes, arasi. GOD is an invention by humans only.......No other species have these problems of 33 Crore Devatas!

[rshankar]

To paraphrase Descartes' famous saying: "I think, therefore God is"
God is a mental concept. Drop your mind, and god ceases to exist.

Yes a mental concept - but what I loosely paraphrased as 'God' could be called 'Nature', 'extra-human force', or whatever, that doesn't cease to exist just because one 'stops thinking' or 'stops feeling'!

[vgvindan]

Drop your mind, and god ceases to exist.

ragam talam,
The aim of all our religious austerities is to sublimate this mind which is the source of egocentric human activities. Once we achieve that aim - drop the mind - "I" (mamakAra yuta ahaMkAra) ceases to exist and not 'God' - He is the one only "I". HE or SHE or IT does not have any mamakAra because HE or SHE or IT is the whole universe per se. The objective Universe is for egocentric human beings only.
God does not need anyone's certification or proof for existence. Our very existence is that proof. Of course here 'God' does not mean someone sitting up there and watching us, but the 'inner regulator' for whom there is no 'going' and 'coming' because there no 'where' to go.

AvE na jAvE marE nahin janmE - Kabir

[knandago2001]

"..samajh hoye to rabeen cheenho, achraj hoye ayana.."
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/illusion-and-reality/

what a great poet!! vgv, thanks for reminding me about him.

[PUNARVASU]

God is NOWHERE and EVERHWHERE.
HE is NOW HERE, NOW THERE!
Look back ,THANK God
Look ahead , TRUST God
Look around, SERVE God
Look within, FIND God.

[VK RAMAN]

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads/pm/sa/pmsa.htm

Very interesting recording of Pithukkuli Murugadas rendition in South Africa

[vasanthakokilam]

To paraphrase Descartes' famous saying: "I think, therefore God is"
God is a mental concept. Drop your mind, and god ceases to exist.

Descartes's statement is about the nature of existence: I think therefore I am.

Here is a philosophy geek joke: Descartes went to a coffee shop and ordered a tall Latte. The server asked 'Would you like some cinnamon bun with that, Sir?'. Descarte, bemused at such a question since he gets his morning Latte every day at that corner shop, raised his eyebrows a little and replied "I think not". Poof.. Descarte disappeared.

[arasi]

Spring cuckoo,
A geeky extension to the joke:
I think. and I am still here because I don't THINK like him

[PUNARVASU]

I am, therefore I think?

[rshankar]

I am, therefore I think?

I wish?

[cienu]

The divinity in poetry and music is what moves me the most: nothing can match Sri Tulsidas when he is stumped by the lord's beauty and, so, bereft of similes, he simply says: "raghuvar chabi ke samAn, raghuvar chabi baniyA" or, when, with utmost sincerity, he says 'mErO man hAr liyO jAnakI ramaNvA' (bringing up images of rAma wrestling with, and winning over the poet's reluctant heart as opposed to the poet losing his willing heart to rAma! ), or when the blind sUrdAs asks the lord to overlook his faults (prabhU, mErE avgun cit na dharO), because the latter claims to be impartial (sam darsI), and demands the union of his jIvAtmA with the paramAtmA, or when Sri arunNAcala kavi says of sItA "avaniyil illai IDu, avaLLukku avaLE jODu" (there is no one who can be compared to her, she is her own equal)...and the irony of the situation where this is set in the rAmanATakam is delicious...SUrpanakhA is describing sItA's beauty to rAvaN! The unparalleled scholarship of Dikshitar when he describes kAmAkSI of kAncIpuram as "EkAmrESa grihESwari", or the tender love and devotion of Tygaraja when he beseeches the lord to come very carefully "hetsarika gA rArA, hE rAmacandrA", or when mIrA says very simply 'gOpAl hai wOh ek, ban mein carAvE gaiyyAn' are yet more examples. The list is endless and I could go on forever. It can be argued that these examples represent the pinnacles of human achievement, but I believe that the recipe for such mind blowing stuff needs human endeavor and divine ordaining in equal measures......(a little bit like "SOkhiyon me ghOlA jAye phUlon kA SabAb, usmE phir milAyi jAyE thODi si SarAb")!

And finally, when such potent lyrics are offered straight from an artist's heart, packaged in soulful music, or vibrant dance, then the combination is such that the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts, and no human can bear witness to this without their lives changing for the better in one way or another. But whatever the recipe, and however these dishes are prepared, the end result is that in all these instances divinity truly manifests.

First of all rshankar , that was a wonderful write up and I savoured every bit of it. 4 years is not too long back ! I had been wanting to add a few of my thoughts , but was a bit tied up during the week. (aka Coolji).

This has turned out to be a lovely little thread with great contributions.

Legend has it that Kalidasa was an unlettered man with no education worth the name, who was blessed by Goddess Kali and went on to compose such masterpieces such as Shakuntalam, Raghuvamsham and Kumarsambhavam apart from lyrical poems like Meghdutam and Rtusanghara.

Coming to the recent history, let us take the example of Flute maestro Hariprasad Chaurasia , who had no background of music and came from a lineage of wrestlers. It is said that the man who was to mesmerise the world with his awe-inspiring virtuosity in playing the bamboo reed had begun his career as a musician at the age of five. He had stolen a flute from a boy of his own age who had made the mistake of putting his bansuri on a brick while drinking water from a municipal tap

What about our own Ravikiran. I quote from his web page// " With mikes all around him and his hands full of biscuits, all the time playing, the child gave out correct answers", stated The Music Academy's journal in 1969, of two-year-old prodigy Ravikiran's demonstration. Born on February 12, 1967, Ravikiran stunned the music world with his ability to identify and render about 325 ragas (melodic scales) and 175 talas (rhythmic cycles). He was also able to answer complex technical questions on various aspects of Carnatic music when quizzed by luminaries such as Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, Pandit Ravi Shankar, M S Subbulakshmi, Flute Mali, Palghat Mani Iyer, T N Krishnan, Ramnad Krishnan and Alla Rakha.// Unquote

Prompting Panditji to say 'If you don't believe in God, just look at Ravikiran"

I have always believed that one needs a touch of the divine atleast for the kick off ! Subsequently, creativity takes over.

With due apologies to Thomas Alva Edison,
"Genius is one percent divinity and 99 percent creativity"
But that 1% is extremely important

[vgvindan]

"Genius is one percent divinity and 99 percent creativity"

Inspiration is 99% perspiration - Vivekananda

[rshankar]

"Genius is one percent divinity and 99 percent creativity"

Sri cienu,

You are absolutely correct!

That one percent is the critical ingredient that sparks the whole enterprise of poetry, music, and art.

[vgvindan]

rs,
I would rather believe in Urdu couplet -

apnE kO itnA buland kardo ki
khudA tumsE pUcE -
bandE tumhE cAhiyE kyA

[sureshvv]

translation would be appreciated... at least for buland. Of course I have heard about their darwaza

[rshankar]

Suresh,

Here you go:

Make (kardO) yourself (apnE kO) so (itnA) exalted/excellent/great (buland) that (ki) God (khudA) himself asks (pUchE) of you (tumsE): "Oh man (bandE), what (kyA) do you (tumhE) want (cAhiyE)?"

VGV,

My take is that "bandOn kO buland ban-nE kA hAfiz tO khud khudA hi hai"

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks Ravi. Nice!! Can you also provide translations to the hindi sentences in your original post? That will round out the picture for me. You can insert them in place in the original article itself, if you like ). Thanks.

[arasi]

hum idhar hOnE se bhi hO na sakE
dimAg tO aisA ki hOnE sE bhI pA na sakE
pA na sakE jaisE dEcArt sOchnE pAyE
kOyaliyA hansAyE hamE 'geek' bAt sE--hum tO
geek hI banE, hOnE aur jAnE mE--piyE lAtte
magar dEcArt jaise jOsh sE nahIn lauTE
rahE geek hI geek--sar bhar dimAg sE,
binA sOchnE kI tAqat sE--

Once a geek...:rolleyes:

VK,
It is just as well that you did not get it. I had hurriedly typed it and had gone away. I find now that in my typing it I had messed up the lines and left out a couple of words! I have put it right now.

[arasi]

VK,
This is for you, but the substance is not worth a translation, because it is all geek talk!

[rshankar]

VK,

Added the translations to my original post -

The (mis)quote at the end in that post was from this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zznKniCY_iA

'SokhiyOn mein ghOlA jAyE phUlOn kA SabAb
usmE phir milAyI jAyE thODi si SarAb
hOgA yUn naSA jO taiyyAr woh pyAr hai'

Which, roughly translated means: ' the type of (yUn) giddy, intoxicating potion (naSA) that results (jO taiyyAr hOgA) when one mixes/dissolves (ghOlA jAyE) the nectar (SabAb) of (kA) flowers (phUlOn) in some whimsy (SOkhiyOn), and adds just a dash (thODI sI) of wine (SarAb) to it - that (wOh) is (hai) love (pyAr).....

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks Ravi.

VK,
This is for you, but the substance is not worth a translation, because it is all geek talk!

Arasi, Your poem is probably first hindi poem with Descarte (dEcArt ) and geek mentioned in it. Though I do not understand any of it, I enjoyed the good rhyming.

[arasi]

Punarvasu,
My response to VK was a geeky round about way of saying this: I did not have to go away--even remaining here, I cannot think as he does...