National Anthem

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 10 Apr 2008, 08:50

beautiful!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bh26zOjIh9I

tilt · Post by **tilt** » 11 Apr 2008, 01:36

I wonder how many people know that the Indian national anthem actually has three verses. I know the second verse but have not come across anyone who knows the third! So, if anyone knows the third verse, could you please let me know? I would love to learn it and be able to sing the complete national anthem instead of just the first two verses.

Cheers

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 11 Apr 2008, 17:54

The lyrics are from â€œSwadeshâ€

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2008, 19:36

Only the first stanza is recognized as the National Anthem of India; the rest are not. There have been a lot of controversies (even to-day) on recognizing these verses. Guruji Rabindrantha Tagore composed this to welcome Prince of Wales to India (?1915) and accordingly the 'Jana GaNa mana adhinAyaka' symbolized Prince of Wales at that time!
Further Sind is no longer part of BhArat as also half of Banga has been excised out! Again the whole of the Soth has been summarized in a single phrase 'DraAvida' which does injustice to those population....
There was overwhelming support to recognize 'vandEmAtaraM' (the battle cry of independance) of Bankhim Chandra as the National anthem, but the muslims seriously objectedd to it claiming that it eulogized shakti (bhaarata maata) and also that Bankhim was a Hindu Fanatic (pah!).
Those are pages from our chequered history...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2008, 21:04

Indeed, and how very true!
Still, we cannot give up singing Sentamizh nADennum pOdinilE... (when one utters tthe name of the great tamizh nADu). When we hear the name of TN today, our ears do not feel as though they get drenched in the nectar of such a name!
vandE mAtaram enbOm (let's salute our mother country--two sanskrit words) may not sound nectar to many ears in TN now. nammil oTRumai nIngil anaivarkkum tAzhvE (if we do not come together, we would fall) should be sung every now and then to remind ourselves that we are one.
I am just wondering. The crossword clue today for rAgA is hindu music. Is it necessary for non-hindu musicians to protest over it? When our nAgasvara vidvAns play songs about rAmA, how awful it would be if non hindus protest! Alas, that is how divisions thrive in bhArath...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2008, 21:21

Arasi
It is now ages since I ever heard 'Sentamizh nADennum pOdinilE' in any concert or even in a public platform. The present day politicians avoid Bharati calling him a 'brahmin'! What an irony?

tilt · Post by **tilt** » 11 Apr 2008, 23:49

Knandago201, thank you for posting the lyrics. I never knew there were more than three verses! I wonder if someone knows the tune for the third, fourth and fifth verses. I know the tune for the second.

Cmlover, it was very interesting to read your post. VandE mAtaram is a favourite of mine. I have a weakness for anything resembling Desh ragam. Sindhu nadhiyin isai, thunbam nErgayil, pyaar hua chupke se from 1942 a love story, Duhk Ke ab din bethath naahin by Saigal from Devdas, etc.

Thank you.

Cheers

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 11 Apr 2008, 23:51

The tune for all of the stanzas is the same as the 2nd verse.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:02

Well, representation from those south of the vindhyas is minimal in the youtube clip given above. That's like the one word mention of dravida land in the anthem, and the same attitude persists today...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:56

...and there are no rivers in South that count

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Apr 2008, 07:34

CML,
There are, 'but they are not the great rivers which flow from the mighty Himalayas'!
And I am not saying it

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 12 Apr 2008, 08:32

AR Rehman has been faulted for extending the time limit of the production to 7 min instead of â€œfinishingâ€

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 12 Apr 2008, 20:02

Tagore is credited with the scoring the music for Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyayâ€™s Vande Maataram
http://www.culturalindia.net/national-s ... -song.html

The original translation of the anthem to English, by Tagore, is available at the Besant Theosophical College in Madanapalle â€“ Andhra Pradesh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 20:30

Nandagopal
Thanks for the objective references!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 20:43

Shankar
I have moved Senthamizh nADu to the sahitya group. Kindly continue your excellent interpretations therein at your leisure.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 21:07

Just for fun folks

Jana gaNa mana adhinAyaka jaya hE
BhArata bhAgya VidhAtA
karNATka kEraLa Andhra MarAThA
Tamizh nADu uttara dEshA
vindhya sahyAdrI kAvEri GodAvari
Ucchala jaladhi taraṅga
tava śubha nAmE jAgE
tava śubha Aśisa mAhE
GAhE tava jaya gAthA
Jana gaNa maṅgala dAyaka jaya hE
BhArata bhAgya vidhAtA
Jaya hE jaya hE jaya hE
Jaya jaya jaya jaya hE

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 12 Apr 2008, 22:12

Tagore could not see beyond "drAvid" to include T.N., Kerala, Telugu Desam, Karnatak and the power that was at that time when national anthem was picked had a narrow outlook and I believe,although the first Indian Viceroy General was Rajagopalachari, he was not part of the decision making.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Apr 2008, 22:14

CML,
LOL!
The bard did not place vanga dESam first in the song, though! Yet, he summed the south all up in one word!
Seriously, maps redefine territories as political changes occur. It can be done to national anthems too, with deference to the great poet, don't you think?...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 22:37

the Fun continues (with a heart-ache for the Bard)

1. shentamizh nADennum pOdinilE thunba tEL vandu koTTudu kAdinilE engaL
tandaiyar nADenra pEcchinilE oru chintai piRakkudu nenjinilE (shentamizh)
2. vAdam niRainda tamizh nADu veRuM vaMBu cheRinda tamizh nADu nalla
mOdal puriyum chilamBuDan rowDikaL chuRRi thiriyuM tamizh nADu (shentamizh)
3. kAviri ten peNNai pAlARu tamizh kaNDadOr vaighai porunai nadi ena
mEviya ARu palavirunthum thaNNIrinRi thavikkuM tamizhnADu (shentamizh)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Apr 2008, 22:43

As in paintings, change of perspective reveals different aspects. I guess it is the same thing here. It is still the same united bhArath.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:24

As I see it is still
U nighted bhArat awaiting the bhA of common sense!
The way TN is moving it is likely within another 20years it may become a 'drAviDa nADu' fulfilling the prediction of Tagore to fit in with his lyrics

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:38

A counter-trend is happening as well. Last year, the young man who was sitting next to me on the plane ride from Delhi to Chennai was a Delhi'ite moving to Chennai for an IT job.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Apr 2008, 01:04

And he may love it there. You should have asked him about the central government!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Apr 2008, 01:09

CML,
As good as 'nejil uramum inRi, nErmai tiRamum inRi'

Let's go filmi now :

nallavar AnAlum illAdavarai nADu madikkAdu
kalvi illAda mUDaraik kaTROr koNDADudal
veLLip paNAmaDiyE (well, tangak kASugaLaDI)
kudambA...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 Apr 2008, 01:10

You should have asked him whether he had the Visa to enter

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 14 Apr 2008, 20:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAWarHi0OgE

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 14 Apr 2008, 21:02

[quote="knandago2001"]The lyrics are from â€œSwadeshâ€

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 14 Apr 2008, 21:07

Sounds great Sriram. Let us get on with it. I can contribute with very little I can, if someone can give me the precise swaras. We need someone to coordinate all this. This need not be a long protracted activity, let us set a couple of weeks deadline and see what we can accomplish.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 14 Apr 2008, 21:47

Nice idea Sriram!
You set the vocal and we will follow you!
BTW thanks for the you tube link- well sung with just human voices.

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 15 Apr 2008, 00:16

Thanks vk and suji. This will be good if we performed as a group (some male and female voices). If someone can define the first version (i.e., a consistent format and split of words) all of us can follow. The idea is that everyone follows this master version and posts their versions and we can look at ways to generate this as a group rendition. The interludes and instruments can be added in the same.

Thoughts appreciated.

I can only be a follower

so looking at any volunteers.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Apr 2008, 06:12

I am with you guys!
Let Nandagopal take the lead in orchestrating...
(let somebody who knows Bangla give us the right pronunciations, padacchedam and meanings too!

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 15 Apr 2008, 15:38

cmlover wrote:Let Nandagopal take the lead in orchestrating...

I second the request. Also, Sri Nandagopal has kindly given us the notation and I guess we could also use his bangla skills

Notation available at
http://file.uploadr.com/14dd6

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 15 Apr 2008, 15:51

I tried to format first 2 paragraphs in arun's typesetter. The source and PDF versions available at the URL below

http://file.uploadr.com/14de3

Hi Arun, when I convert this to PDF some of the formatting that otherwise appears in the typesetter seems to be missing (example: the dots denoting notes from lower ocatves). Is there something I am doing wrong here?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Apr 2008, 17:57

sriram,

In the typesetter, you need to use s' for upper stayi (the * indicator is for anya swaras). The backtick i.e. n` is for mandra stayi. Also, I am not sure why the tala indicators are "off base". I guess it is still ok but it is an eyesore of sorts

. I have run into this on IE when the fonts are too big but that does not seem to be the case here. Of course the additional problem is pages 2 and 3 - not sure what is going on there.

Also note that in your browser settings you want to enable printing background/images - otherwise the stayi markers, speed markers etc. may still not show up. I think the first chapter of the (pdf) manual mentions how to enable this for IE and FireFox.

I guess based on the notation, the tala could be said as Eka tala?

Arun

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 15 Apr 2008, 18:45

Thanks Arun

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 15 Apr 2008, 20:56

Sriram: If possible, I'll get a translation of verses 2-5 of Jana gana mana

Link to music and discography of Vande Maataram
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/mataram.htm

Vande Mataram - Translation by Aurobindo
Mother, I bow to thee!
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Cool with thy winds of delight, Dark fields waving, Mother of might,
Mother free.
Glory of moonlight dreams,
Over thy branches and lordly streams,
Clad in thy blossoming trees,
Mother, giver of ease,
Laughing low and sweet!
Mother I kiss thy feet,
Speaker sweet and low!
Mother to thee I bow.

Who hath said thou art weak in thy lands,
When the swords flash out in twice seventy million hands,
And seventy million voices roar,
Thy dreadful name from shore to shore?
With many strengths who are mighty and stored,
To thee I call, Mother and Lord!
Though who savest, arise and save!
To her I cry who ever her foemen drive,
Back from plain and sea,
And shook herself free.
Thou art wisdom, thou art law,
Thou our heart, our soul, our breath,
Thou the love divine, thou the awe,
In our hearts that conquer death.
Thine the strength that nerves the arm,
Thine the beauty, thine the charm,
Every image made divine,
In our temples is but thine.

Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,
Mother, lend thine ear.

Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Dark of hue, O candid-fair,
In thy soul, with jeweled hair,
And thy glorious smile divine,
Loveliest of all earthly lands,
Showering wealth from well-stored hands!
Mother, mother mine!
Mother sweet, I bow to thee,
Mother great and free!

'Vande Mataram' translated by Sri Aurobindo. This note of his about this translation is very significant: "It is difficult to translate the National Anthem of Bengal into verse in another language owing to its unique union of sweetness, simple directness and high poetic force."
[Quoted in Bhabatosh Chatterjee (ed.), Bankim Chandra Chatterjee: Essays in Perspective, Sahitya Akademi, Delhi, 1994, p. 601.]

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 16 Apr 2008, 13:46

Very interesting commentary with references to â€“
i) proclamation by King George V of the annulment of the partition of Bengal on Dec 12, 1911 (Lord Curzon's policy of banga bhanga was thus negated)

ii) perceptual differences in news reports by various agencies

iii) release of a â€œsecret circularâ€