Dr. Shrikaanth K Murthy

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 16 Mar 2006, 03:00

LOL!!!

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 16 Mar 2006, 04:08

DRS!!!
Thanks for that explanation. Helps..
Now I see what you meant abt Nalinikanthi ...
U r indeed a musical genius...
Do you give performances here? (as in UK)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2006, 04:15

I seem to be missing something here.
Take
PMGRSGRM,GRSG,RM, which is split as
PMGR-SGRM,-GR-SG,RM, legal in both NK and KS
Now
PMGRSGRMG,PMGRSGRM split as
PMGR-SGR-MG,-PMGR-SGRM which is equally legal in bothe NK and KS

Whare is the differentiation?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Mar 2006, 04:56

I seem to be missing something here.

Now
PMGRSGRMG,PMGRSGRM split as
PMGR-SGR-MG,-PMGR-SGRM which is equally legal in bothe NK and KS

Whare is the differentiation?

I see where you are coming from. But "G,P " is not legal in naLinakAnti. There is much less flexibility in the newer rAgas. See Lalgudi`s varNa in the rAga here

http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivk ... kanthi.pdf

If someone uses this prayOga in NK, it will sond like kAntaswara.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2006, 05:46

DRS
By the same token Lalgudi even does not even use M,G which is quite OK!
Now G,P arises naturally in the arOhaNa of naLinakanti. Where does the proscription come from?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Mar 2006, 05:58

DRS
By the same token Lalgudi even does not even use M,G which is quite OK!
Now G,P arises naturally in the arOhaNa of naLinakanti. Where does the proscription come from?

You have got it wrong CML. G,P does NOT occur in ArOhaNa of naLinakAnti. The ArOhaNa is "SGRMP". Given the scale, there is no way GP can occur in ascent. Not even in an ancient time-tested rakti rAga. On has to descend grom G to R and proceed via M or possibly directly from R as for e.g RPM. But I repeat, never as GP.

As for M,G, I dont know what you mean. Lalgudi`s varNa does have it. It cannot be naLinakAnti without MG

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2006, 06:21

Agreed!

By the same token
you cannot have SGRM in KS; you have to ascend SGPNRM to reach it. But it is admissible since you are providing it as the 'raga lakShaNa'. Am I right?

As a general rule the vakra rule has to be followed and jumps are not allowed unless exceptions are specifically allowed! OK!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Mar 2006, 06:28

Wrong again CML
In SGRM, SG is ascent. Then we descend from G to R as avarOhi prayOga and again ascend to RM. This is very much in keeping with scale. There is no transgression or viSESha here. Just for illustrattion, take the ciTTeswara of raghuvamSa in KK. It starts as.
"S,RMG,RS"

It does not progress as RMDNGP but simply goes from M to G. These pryOgas are a must if one has to have variety in a rAga. Or one will end up repeating the ArOhaNa and avarOhaNa ad nauseam.
On the other hand GP cannot be accommodated in any such manner in NK.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2006, 07:11

*** light flahed!

Thanks very much DRS!

I was just looking at the arohana of KS and interpreted GR ae a thaTTu prayogam. Of course it comes straight from the avarohanam. Again now it is quite clear how GP can occur only in KS or KK and not in NK!

Thanks for your patience!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Mar 2006, 13:14

Part of the reason why this sounds like KK is simply because it is a new rAga not known. And one tends to learn by association first before differentiation. With use and/or more compositions as tilAnas/varNas/ kRtis, it will sound much less like KK or any other rAga to rasikas.

I agree. Also, I liked your phrase 'one tends to learn by association first before differentiation'. (Associating brings it in to a class and differentiation distinguishes between members of the class)... And having an attractive raga like KK to initially associate with is nothing to complain about either

It will be fun to watch for reactions like 'Hmm... this sounds like a raga or a song I know but also it is different..'

Some overlap between rAgas in unavoidable and often is unnoticeable as it is the overall effect that lasts. I am just being picky and explaining this as vk had requested it. It also illustrates what all consideration and thought has gone into the making of the rAga.

It is much appreciated. In the raga lakshana, you mentioned that the Ga is a bit sharper at times. I was intrigued by that... First of all, that is a pretty bold thing to put in to the raga. Having said that, how did you hit upon that? I am sure melody aesthetics played a major role there. Is Ga sharper only in certain combinations of swaras? Needless to day, I am still in wonderment about your statement on the sharper Ga (that you casually snuck in there

)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Mar 2006, 20:08

---
It is much appreciated. In the raga lakshana, you mentioned that the Ga is a bit sharper at times. I was intrigued by that... First of all, that is a pretty bold thing to put in to the raga. Having said that, how did you hit upon that? I am sure melody aesthetics played a major role there. Is Ga sharper only in certain combinations of swaras? Needless to day, I am still in wonderment about your statement on the sharper Ga (that you casually snuck in there )

What is so bold about that?
Some of the thought processes and execution are subconscious. The sharper G is one of them. It is Therefore it is! Dont worry too much about the wheres and wherefores. The G will take care of itself.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2006, 22:40

DRS

I was thinking a lot about KS last night and I think I heard a lot of NK in the subconscious land of nods! Now as I look at it more carefully I realize that many of the sancaarams of NK can be reproduced in Nk but not vice versa. I consider it a strength than a weakness (like a mELa ragam vs its janya(classic example kambodhi vs harikambodhi!)). NK is a superb raagam (though minor) and KS literally brings more vigour into the sancaaram (the NRM which is like the bouncing vigour of Talakkaaveri is avilable in KS but not in NK)!

I would like you to specify which

the 2 set of phrase in KK ArOhaNa are reversed in kAntaswara

Again I am trying to read your thoughts that you arrived at KS from KK rather than from NS (which is the surprise entry!). Is that the reason for the krama sampoorna avarohana ? By retrofitting vakrata in KS would you gain more punch (just a rambling thought!). I would now urge you to create some more uruppadis in KS! Will I be able to sing a viruttam in it? Tell me how I should approach?

Thanks for brightening our days! (Of course spring is round the corner

)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 16 Mar 2006, 23:05

I would like you to specify which
the 2 set of phrase in KK ArOhaNa are reversed in kAntaswara
Again I am trying to read your thoughts that you arrived at KS from KK rather than from NS (which is the surprise entry!). Is that the reason for the krama sampoorna avarohana ? By retrofitting vakrata in KS would you gain more punch (just a rambling thought!). I would now urge you to create some more uruppadis in KS! Will I be able to sing a viruttam in it? Tell me how I should approach?----

The reasons for choosing kramasmpUrNa avarOhaNa are

1) vakratva in both ascent ad descent, esecially with such a phenomenal vakratva as in kAntaswara would make the rAga unsteady and non-viable. Like in cricket, one batsman jsut holds his place and provides support so that the other batsman can swing and score.

2) Generally vakra sancAras in avarohaNa make rAga more unsteady and less easy to handle.

As for reversal of 2 sets, from the way I have worded the sentence, it should be clear that this is not literally the case. First spliiting the KK ArOhaNa as "S" "RMDN" "GP" and "S*". Then doing some permutation and combination to arive at a working, attractive and sparkling combination. Gives "S, "GPN", "RMD", "S*" of kAntaswara.

As for viruttam, I dont see why you should not try singing one in the rAga. Just keep the rAgaswarUpa in mind and follow gut feeling. Emphasise G and D. You could start on G or D or simply and safely stick to the ShaDja.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 00:39

Will try!
Do tell me the nyAsa swarams. I notice the gamakam is on the NiShAdam and dhaivatam. Can the madhymam be held straight? Is there any gamakam in the avarohanam?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2006, 01:21

What is so bold about that ( sharper Ga )?

Well... I was thinking in terms of 'sruthis', given that it is a fairly advanced concept... So I realize 'bold' is not the right word to use but 'advanced' usage for a new raga is what I had in mind. ( though coming to think of it, it may be bold given the controversy with non-gamaka sruthi ratios, but that is not what I had in mind since that is way out of my league in the artisitic and aesthetic sense )

In either case, I meant it in a positive way...good to have such nuances in the new raga..

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 02:04

CML
D, M and G will be nyAsas. M can be held steady.

Is there any gamakam in the avarohanam?

Could not help a chuckle here(no disrespect meant of course). But I know what you mean. You could use the same gamaka on D as in ascent;- upward association with S*.

it may be bold given the controversy with non-gamaka sruthi ratios

If I may make a flippant comment here, some people have a habit of making a controversy out of everything.

I dont know who has made what controversies but CM is full of gamakas and there cannot be any question about that.
Coming back to sharper G, 2 reasons for it could be absence of R before it in ascent and the gamaka on D.

VK- Send me an email. I need your address.
Suji Ram, you too. Please send me an email.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 02:12

DRS

Here is an earnest attempt! Of course I have yet to get the hang of different phrases!
http://rapidshare.de/files/15670490/viruttam.mp3.html

Comments please!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2006, 02:38

some people have a habit of making a controversy out of everything. I dont know who has made what controversies but CM is full of gamakas and there cannot be any question about that.
Coming back to sharper G, 2 reasons for it could be absence of R before it in ascent and the gamaka on D.

That is indeed true ( just for the record, the controversy is whether sruthi ratios outside of the 12 swarasthanams really exist given the wide variability of frequencies that shows up among the top musicians when actually measured... anyway we do not have to go there in this thread...may be we can bring that up as a musicological discussion in the technical section to check on what the current status on the measurements are). We will leave it at that here.

Coming back to your comment, the way you describe the sharper Ga is purely coming from the artistic and the raga lakshana side which makes perfect sense to me. 'It is Therefore it is' is right on...

P.S. DRS, I have sent you an email.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 02:51

Dear DRS
Hold your chuckles

it was an objective query since I was basing my analysis on your rendering of the swaras. Here is my frequency analysis.
(picture deleted since it screws up the page format!)
The Aro stops about 8.5 secs and Avaro is quite packed and the features are not distinguishable (you have rendered it casually). Clearly S,G,P have been rendered straight, N with ERRa jaaru as well as DhAlu, R (almost alpam) M straight, dha (almost sphuritam) and S* with eRRa jaaru.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 03:15

OK CML
Supressed chuckles this time.

as the blame has landed squarely on me.
Coming to viruttam. Thanks for trying. We enjoyed listening to it. As you have asked for my observations, here we go
You have sung R1 instead of R2. This has given a strong vasanta flavour. Tighten up the R as also the other swarasthAnas and it will be fine. I guess it is because of the rAga being new to it. Just hum the scale and my krti a few times(even mentally would do) and the rAga will become clearer to you.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 03:26

DRS
very correct observation. I was smelling vasanta too! I was trying to listen to your aalaapana for help but that was too brief. I must give some more time and practise the swarams (back to basics

). The raga is indeed very bright and enlivening (I mean shravaNaabhirAmA too!)!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 04:15

Guess it time to move on right?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 17 Mar 2006, 04:43

CML

VK- Send me an email. I need your address.
Suji Ram, you too. Please send me an email.

I need your email.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 17 Mar 2006, 05:09

DRS,
how abt some composition in kurunji and/or jhenjhuti??

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 06:19

suji
My email ID is [email protected]

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 06:31

yes indeed DRS!
let us chew the cud on KS! Technical issues we can discuss elsewhere. Do you want to answer vasya's question or want your siShya to do that

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 06:37

Next kRti:- bhajakana kAvaradU- rAgacUDAmaNi, AditALa.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15681153/bha ... y.wma.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:05

mAtu of bhajakana kAvaradU

rAga- rAgacUAmaNi; AditALa

bhajakana kAvaradU bhAramA |
bhArati saraswati bhagavati ||P||

sujanAnurAga cUDAmaNiya |
cUTina nI kOLaradO kaNiya ||AP||

giNipaDe nI vArcollinadu pOru |
aNiyAha vidyu Odinadu pOru |
maNihaLa aNNiccadu ini poru |
maLLa sauj~naya paNNinadu pOru ||
aNacATara jaganmAte nIyE ammA SrIkAntatanayajAyE ||C||

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:55

Next kRti:- bhajakana kAvaradU- rAgacUDAmaNi, AditALa.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15681153/bha ... y.wma.html

DRS,
I never heard this raga before. But indeed beautiful!! Found svEta gaNapathim of MD in the following link. Waiting for seniors to comment on this raga. Just playing the aro and ava was "hair raising".

http://plus.xdrive.com/u/171331465/8501 ... 0rIzcqI8cV

look under ssp ragas

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:56

nice rendering of the vivaadi raga! Look forward to the meaning and discussion of the raga! I assume jyothisvaroopini the pratimadhyamam counterpart is more popular (probably because of the miracle!).

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Mar 2006, 04:50

DRS,
I have a seemingly unrelated question: since you compose in Sanskrit, Kannada and Sanketi, I was wondering if you composed in tamizh as well?
Ravi

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Mar 2006, 05:11

DRS,
I have a seemingly unrelated question: since you compose in Sanskrit, Kannada and Sanketi, I was wondering if you composed in tamizh as well?
Ravi

Look for Kapali-Abhogi in this thread

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 07:09

word to word meaning for bhajakana kAvaradU
rAga- rAgacUAmaNi; AditALa

i have given tamizh euivalents of some words within {}

bhajakana- Devotee/singer of your praise; kAvaradU- protecting/saving{kAppadum};
bhAramA- Is it too difficult?; bhArati; saraswati; bhagavati.

sujanAnurAga- The affection/love of good people; cUDAmaNiya- crown jewel/crest;
cUTina- wearing{sUTTiya}; nI- You; kOLaradO- Should You ask(kETpadO); kaNiya- Oppurtune moment{saguNattai}.

giNipaDe- with the parrot{kiLiyiDam}; nI- You; vArcollinadu- conversing{pEsiyadu}; pOru- enough{pOdum}.
aNiyAha- nicely{azhagAga}; vidyu- study{kalvi}; Odinadu- studying{paDittadum}; pOru- enough;
maNihaLa- beads{maNigaLai}; aNNiccadu- counting{eNNiyadum}; ini- now; poru- enough;|
maLLa- softly{mella}; sauj~naya- signal; paNNinadu- doing; pOru- enough.
aNacu ATara- You Who shower love, nourish and rock{sIrATTudal}; jaganmAte- Mother of the universe; nIyE- You only;
ammA- Mother mine; SrIkAntatanayajAyE- Wife of SrIkAnta`s son.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 07:50

Where does sarasvati play with parrot (shuka). you are mistaking mInAkShi! You need the swan (annam)!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 07:53

Caught on the wrong foot again.

SrngEri SAradAmbe has a parrot in Her hand. To complete the picture, akShamAla, pustaka and j~nAnamudre in the other 3 hands.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 08:07

Gracefully accepted!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 21:33

Running meaning of bhajakana kAvaradU

Is it too difficult for You to just protect this devotee of Yours who sings Your praise! O bhArati, saraswati, bhagavati!

You, Who wear the affection of good people as Your crown jewel, is it right on Your part to be waiting as thogh You are finding out if it is the right time to grace me? Come now.

Enough of Your conversing with the parrot in Your hand!
Enough of You diligently studying the various arts and science!
And enough of Your counting those beads in Your hand!
And now dont go about surreptiously signalling with that hand of Yours. Enough of that too.
You are the mother of the universe Who rocks, nurtures and protects everything. Mother mine! Consort of brahma, the Son of SrIkAnta!
Is it really all that difficult for You to protect me?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 21:57

Dear DRS

very nice lyric! The pungency of satire is bubbling in the sahitya and the raga too! Kindly explain what you mean by:

And now dont go about surreptiously signalling with that hand of Yours. Enough of that too.

Now we (I) need help in appreciating these rare ragas. First the notations (so that I can clearly follow the sancaarams). Vivadi ragas are like walking a tightrope. With your perfect shruti you do a great job. But then take care of your voice too from cracking

Await your guidance...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 22:01

OK got it! You are talking about the ~njaana mudras! But could you explain the significance .

Darshan

pitch in too! If you can enlighten us!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 22:21

Dear DRS

very nice lyric! The pungency of satire is bubbling in the sahitya and the raga too! ...

You see satire there. I feel like the son demanding my mother to pay attention to me. Just plainly taking liberties obtained from being a son. No more. No less. Yes there are shades of satire, annoyance, anger, derision, jealousy, fear, sadness as well.
Just think of a child and how he feels when his mother is seemingly ignoring him and paying attention to sundry things such as taking to another person, reading a book etc. You will get the picture.
That is exactly the mood in which I have composed the kRti.

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 19 Mar 2006, 00:05

DRS
That was a good and rare piece. Havent learnt any song in the raaga apart from Swetha Ganapathim. So notation will be much appreciated....

Also,
Why does this saraswathi in Srungeri( where is this place) has different things in her hand than normal saraswathi? Please enlighten us....

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2006, 00:53

Thanks DRS

I missed the petulant child demanding the mother's attention. I was more focussed on the adult devotee teasing the deity to demand attention ( some of T's kritis with amarSha rasOkti like nagumo...). Is that a lisping kannada that you have employed? i could visualize anandabhairavi in that context. Just explain how ragacUDaamaNi fits in...

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 01:17

DRS
That was a good and rare piece. Havent learnt any song in the raaga apart from Swetha Ganapathim. So notation will be much appreciated....

Also,
Why does this saraswathi in Srungeri( where is this place) has different things in her hand than normal saraswathi? Please enlighten us....

You couldn`t have learnt any other song in this rAga as there isn`t another apart from my kRti AFAIK

SRngEri SAradAmbe is SrImAtA Herself and all that She represents. She is traditionally celebrated as Saraswati. She was worshipped by AdiSankarAcArya.
SRngEri is a hallowed and renowned divyakShetra on the banks of the river tungabhadra in Karnataka.

Thanks DRS

-------Is that a lisping kannada that you have employed? i could visualize anandabhairavi in that context. Just explain how ragacUDaamaNi fits in...

The kRti is in sankEti as usually spoken.
Anandabhairavi has no SOka but rAgacUDAmaNi does, apart from other rasas.

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 19 Mar 2006, 03:20

DRS/CML
I dont know if its relevant. Here is a a recording of Sri Srungeri Saarada Bhujangam by an unknown artist. I have coverted it from a tape(My first tape to computer conversion) so volume is a bit low and so is the recording quality...

http://rapidshare.de/files/15839928/sar ... m.WMA.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 09:01

rAgacUDAmaNi is the 32nd asampUrNa mELa. Its sampUrNa counterpart is rAgavardhini.
Its scale is

SM1R3G3MPN2N,S* | S*ND1PMMR,S ||

M and N are jIva and nyAsa swaras. R also can be used at times as nyAsa. The rAga evokes dainya bhAva. It also gives rise to SOka due to D1 and N2 while R3 gives rise to some hAsya and anger. It is a beautiful rAga that can be sung fairly elaborately.

The other known kRti in this rAga is MD`s samaShTi caraNa kRti, SvEtagaNapatim.
Incidentally www.indiamusicinfo.com also lists .S.Ramachandran`s "pada sarOjayugamE" under the rAga. Does anyone have a recording or more info on this kRti.

Lakshman, can you throw more light on this one?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 09:05

Suji Ram
Thanks for posting the relevant clip from xdrive. Others please note that the material relevant to rAgacUDAmaNi starts halfway through the clip. SRJ`s brief talk is informative.
Here is another recording of SvEtagaNapatim

http://rapidshare.de/files/4740657/shvE ... m.mp3.html

Kiran
thanks for the SAradA bhujanga on SRngEri SArade by Adi SankarAcArya.
It is relevant as it is in praise of the same SRngapurAdhISvari that I have sung praise of.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 19 Mar 2006, 09:24

here is a small clip from a TV relay of dasara festival at sringeri.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15861050/SRINGERI_1.MPG

i have clipped another 7 bits(5-10mb) from the broadcast -clips which feature the different poojas, shots of the river with the fish , and some overall views of Sringeri.If you feel they fit in here, i can upload them

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 09:44

Coolkarni
Go ahead and post it. My kRtis are also a form of tIrthaytre- kShEtrATana. hAgAdaru ammanavara darSanada puNya nammellarigu dorakali.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 19 Mar 2006, 13:32

http://rapidshare.de/files/15863389/SRINGERI_2.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15863746/SRINGERI_3A.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15864268/SRINGERI_3B.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15864886/SRI ... GERI_5.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15866484/SRINGERI_6A.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15867379/SRINGERI_6B.MPG
http://rapidshare.de/files/15868052/SRINGERI_7.MPG

and the final Aarthi..
http://rapidshare.de/files/15868967/SRINGERI_8.MPG

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2006, 22:32

Thanks coolkarni

For that divine experience! Though I could not follow the audio the, the visit in spirit was divine. Would you believe when the final aarathi was done I smelt the dhoopam (a miracle indeed!). The darshan of Acarya was indeed inspiring. Thanks again for the divine pligrimage!