Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 19 Feb 2008, 20:21

Arasi,

arasi wrote:My! All fascinating, though beyond me! SR, does it concern you then, that the two temples which you are connected with in Kerala merely offer a bundle of lily flowers in place of sacrifice? You are a bundle of logic and knowledge. I have nothing much to go by but some intuitive stuff and well, my long years with which I might have gathered some moss. Since you do not seem to be comfortable with substitutions in sacrifices, how do you reconcile to this?

This is becoming quite humorous now

. I thought I had already answered the question. The animal sacrifice formerly offered in temples in Kerala (and in other regions like Himachal and Nepal) is not a Vedic sacrifice. There is no precise method, procedure, nor scriptural (i.e., revealed) justification for it. It was a very informal and casual procedure based significantly upon making a connection to spirits and ancestors etc. It has been dispensed with for reasons of "cruelty to animals", "uncleanliness" etc.

On the other hand, the Vedic sacrifice (whether or not an animal is involved) is an extremely detailed and precise affair, as laid down in the brahmanas and kalpasutras, with the explicit instructions to perform them with precision as revealed to the original seers. These are part of the revealed Vedic canon and cannot be altered. I did not say I am "uncomfortable" or "comfortable" with substitutions in Vedic sacrifices. I am not interested in them, but what I said was that the "substituted" sacrifices should not be claimed to be "Vedic".

So far none of the Hindu philosophers have rejected the validity of the "karmakanda" (sacrificial) portion of the Vedas, even though most of them focus on the "jnanakanda" (mainly Upanishads) as the expedient means of attaining salvation. The two are not inconsistent with each other. Our modern Indian philosophy is based almost exclusively on the "jnanakanda". The "karmakanda" is represented by the school of purva-mimamsa, of which the Nambudiris of Kerala are the main/only remaining exponents to the best of my knowledge.

Recently, I had a conversation with a friend. He spoke of divine grace which brings about compositions. I said creativity and divine grace are almost one strand, and I don't know how much or how little I am blessed with of both--and that if they work together, it is bliss. On the other hand, creativity can exist on its own, and can be as farther away from the grace we were talking about!
Sorry, if I am digressing

You sound almost like VGV now

So far, it seems both you and I have been "blessed by divine grace", since nothing untoward has happened to either of us.

SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 19 Feb 2008, 20:27

gobilalitha wrote:If there is to be an award like Nobelprize for narasthuthi, sangeethrasik will be the universal choice. what are you going to do with the astronomical amount of over 3 crores? gobilalitha

I am not sure what you are referring to, and I am not interested in corresponding with you.

I urge participants to contribute to this thread but not distract from it with either thinly-veiled implications or outright assertions of "lacking grace" or other personal attacks. I try my best to participate here with objectivity and clarity.

SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 19 Feb 2008, 20:32

nick H wrote:A newcomer to this thread, I am catching up very slowly, but I have to suggest that cmlover works

Who can say a bacteria has a lesser life compared to the humans !

into a song or poem!

It is a deep and wonderful sentiment.

Nick, Thanks for your participation, I welcome it.

I suggest to participants to take the discussion on "sacrificial procedures and moral implications thereof" to a separate thread if necessary. In reviewing this thread, it seems the whole discussion on this aspect came out of a mistaken interpretation/double entendre of a line in my composition. Since that has been clarified once again, I think we are done.

SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2008, 21:26

Come, come SR! No need to get testy! We all appreciate your erudition as well as creativity. But you cannot expect everybody to agree with you. If it gets unipolar then everybody will take the route of VGV which will 'kill' a meaningful discussion. With the experience garnered from several scientific presentations you know that every question need not be answered. And also 'I don't know' is also a legitimate answer! Once when Einstein was asked whether he believed that God exists, he responded that it was immaterial what he believed for God to exist! To the self same question karl Marx had responded that he was not interested in the existence of God since He was not a negotiable commodity. In our own TN the well-known rebel EVR while vehemently denying the existence of God was the dharmakartha of a vinaayaka temple and he was breaking the idols of vinaayaka at the same time! My point is while you can rationalize and cling to your views there is no need to coerce others to follow suit !

This thread is on contemporary themes and I don't see any reason to restrict or divert the discussions on social issues elsewhere unless the Admin decieded otherwise.

gOtamam tamasam dUrI karOtu |
gautamam gauravam rakShatu ||
(May Gotama (the one with best cows (?Govinda)) dispel the darkness (our ignorance) !
May Gautama (the enlightened one (Buddha)) preserve our dignity !)

samAnI va AkUtiH samAnA h^ridayAni vaH |
samAnamastu vO manO yathA vaH susahAsati ||
(the last verse of Rig Veda..)
(One and the same be your resolve, and be your minds of one accord.
United be the thoughts of all that all may happily agree.)
(translation by Ralph Griffith)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Feb 2008, 21:55

Gobilalitha,
I may not know much but I do know this much that if that Nobel Prize does materialize, it is not going to be
shared with forumites..

As for Divine Grace, I think it is bigger than merely being my protector.
After all, the song is about BuddhA, the very embodiment of kAruNyA...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2008, 22:03

arasi
I thought the sincere appreciation from the Forumites is more Noble
(.. and it can be shared among all of us !)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Feb 2008, 22:14

Agreed, mon ami...

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 19 Feb 2008, 22:28

cmlover wrote:Come, come SR! No need to get testy!

OK. Done deal. I am not sure what I am trying to make others agree with, though. I just posted composition and translation, and suddenly I find that people are attacking me for "supporting animal sacrifices". :rolleyes:

Since the thread is in "humor" mode and there is talk of distribution of a future 3-crore "Nobel Prize", let me make matters clear right now in order to avoid disappointments later:

* Rs. 1 crore donation to "Yogakshema Sabha" (Nambudiri association) for revival of purvamimamsa in Kerala and "kratumayasatkarmani" (no substitutions and quackery allowed) :rolleyes:

* Rs. 1 crore donation to "Nair Service Society" for "protection" of above-mentioned learned "karmakandi" brahmans from unwanted charvakas, heretics, atheists, and know-it-all "jnanakandis" during above-mentioned "kratumayasatkarmani" activities

* Rs. 9,999,900/- donation to various "uttara-mimamsa" (Vedanta) organizations in case they feel insulted by previous two donations

* Remaining Rs. 100/- will be distributed as Rs. 1/- donations to all regular participants of present thread

KRATO SMARA KRTAM SMARA

SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2008, 23:40

... and none for the promotion of glorious secular themes in CM ...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 19 Feb 2008, 23:49

cmlover wrote:... and none for the promotion of glorious secular themes in CM ...

nidhi cAla sukhamA?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2008, 00:15

nidhi cala sukhamO ?
(is it comfortable to cheat on the funds ?)
(cala means deceiving in sanskrit: is the sentence Ok in telugu ?)

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 20 Feb 2008, 07:03

right from the day I joined as a member, i have been trying to inject some humour in the discussions, which I have stated earlier. actually in real life, Iam supposed to be a humorless,dry person, i do not know why. i thought I could enjoy some fun thro this forum but it seems it is not to be. God wills otherwise gobilalitha

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 20 Feb 2008, 07:09

gobilalitha wrote:right from the day I joined as a member, i have been trying to inject some humour in the discussions, which I have stated earlier. actually in real life, Iam supposed to be a humorless,dry person, i do not know why. i thought I could enjoy some fun thro this forum but it seems it is not to be. God wills otherwise gobilalitha

That was a humorous post....

SR

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 20 Feb 2008, 07:21

sr, in an earlier post, you said you are not interested in c orresponding with me. but you have corresponded. .hahaha! gobilalitha

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2008, 07:36

without humor (blood, phlegm, choler, meloncholy ( essential body fluids according to ancient Greek physicians) we will all die

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Feb 2008, 10:48

gobilalitha wrote:sr, in an earlier post, you said you are not interested in c orresponding with me. but you have corresponded. .hahaha! gobilalitha

'hahaha' does the trick. Or you can use one of the appropriate emoticons... the 'I'm kidding one' is ';)'.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Feb 2008, 10:57

Looks like we have lost the next page here. What happened?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Feb 2008, 10:58

Looks like we have lost the next page here. What happened?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Feb 2008, 12:13

arasi wrote:Looks like we have lost the next page here. What happened?

Looks like this thread is full of "Maya"- maybe result of some kind of "sacrifices"

Jokes aside, I had this problem even yesterday..but then it appeared again..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Feb 2008, 18:04

SR,
Thanks for the 'humor'ous post and I don't mean humor a la grec. Thanks for thinking of us but be assured that we would throw a party for you in every town that the forumites dwell

And, Gobilalitha would be happy to be there...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Feb 2008, 18:05

Yes, I have regained the page!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Feb 2008, 22:57

Looks like this thread is full of "Maya"- maybe result of some kind of "sacrifices"

You mean, some kind of sacrifices not done correctly?

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 07 Mar 2008, 03:09

vasanthakokilam wrote:
Looks like this thread is full of "Maya"- maybe result of some kind of "sacrifices"
You mean, some kind of sacrifices not done correctly?

An arresting movie clip containing dialogue between "karmakandi" and "jnanakandi" philosophers with a shared common goal of folding up operations of atheists and heretics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Iw8uu8HHs

Also, the loss of an eye due to incorrect interpretation of Vedas is illustrated.

SR

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Mar 2008, 01:03

See post #2 in this thread - the first is certainly contemporary and non-secular as well:

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5164

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 29 Apr 2008, 09:53

Amidst the more solemn discussions taking place here, I would like to redirect the attention of the rasiks to the exploits of Rail Mantri Shri Lalu Prasad Yadav (who in the modern day carries Krishna's mantle as Chief of the Yadavas).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhequbKB-bc

I direct the attention of the rasiks to my short composition "Yadukulatilakam" which is in kadanakutuhalam (a raga conveying hAsya rasa). I have refreshed the audio therein:

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=13922#p13922

I find that the above composition and the Youtube video taken together provide a look into Yadav's multifaceted personality. I must say I have followed his exploits closely over the years.

Best Wishes,
SR

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 May 2008, 04:53

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ob781x

Here is my attempt of the composition on Gautama Buddha of SR in sAvEri.
Plays best with windows media player

I also present a short AlApana( 1.30 min)- my first attempt. It is slow paced and hope it sounds like sAvEri. The gamaka on G almost reaching R and also the slides from N to D (almost reaching D) all sound too good in sAvEri. There are places where P slides into M just barely touching it.
sAvEri is such a lovely rAga. Hope to play an elaborate sAvEri some day.

The file has some visuals at the beginning. I could not do that for the whole kriti.
Trying to find an easier way to incorporate lyrics as I render it- since it is instrumental.

Any feed back will be appreciated.

SR can comment if I played the kriti correct since there are no notations!

Today is Buddha Purnima. Enjoy the full moon!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 May 2008, 09:31

Thanks Suji for the Buddha Purnima gift of music! I am sure SR would be happy that you learned to play his kruthi.
I am next on line

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 May 2008, 12:14

Very good job Suji.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 21 May 2008, 06:27

nice effort suji. I liked the multimedia effort too

Arun

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 21 May 2008, 09:47

Suji Ram,

Excellent effort ! Well done. You certainly have a smooth touch on the violin. You have successfully captured almost all the main sangatis and prayogas, especially in the pallavi-anupallavi section. Charanam admittedly is more difficult, I am sure you will return to this raga, and hopefully also this composition, during your practice and future performances. Keep it up !

One suggestion regarding the "DRS" prayoga. In pallavi section this should be played with gamaka on R, specifically a glide from D to R, sometimes touching G, e.g. at "kuru rE". This is the usual "DRS" of Saveri. In the charanam however, the intent was to introduce a plain "DRS" (at "gaccha rE" and "DSR" (at "bhava rE" and "Srnu rE") in the madhyamakala portion. You have captured those correctly.

I also enjoyed the "special effects" at the beginning - quite dramatic and sets the mood !

I will be back soon to continue the composition series.

Best Wishes,
SR

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 21 May 2008, 23:00

Friends,
Thank you very much for your feed back. Now I get the feeling that I am turning from a dabbler to a more refined dabbler. Those visuals were marketing tactics

SR,
Thanks for listening and providing valuable suggestions.The "DRS " is an easy fix now. I had difficulty when I first started learning to incorporate that gamaka. I have used the (p)dr,s in my alapana too. Once at higher octave occuring plain and second at lower octave towards the end - the R sliding from G (I love that prayoga)
The stumbling block for me was playing these words one after the other "abhyucyatE brahmajn~AninA. Finally I pulled off.
By the time I reached the charanam I went into a superconscious state. I cannot recollect how I finished it

While learning this piece I was marveling at your choice of words fiting into fine prayogas. The laghu in the tala matches perfectly with every syllable in the words at certain places.
This was a challenging composition and I have never learnt a sAvEri before.

Arasi,
I would try yours too!...if I can have access to your compositions. Trying new compositions is my forte as I play it fearlessly since I don't have to compare my rendering to any artist.

But I am very picky in selecting a composition, raga, etc. Something has to strike me to learn it.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 May 2008, 10:25

Suji: For starters, I suggest Arasi's composition in Kalyanavasantham. For some reason, I have a feeling you will like playing that on the violin.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 22 May 2008, 11:16

vasanthakokilam wrote:Suji: For starters, I suggest Arasi's composition in Kalyanavasantham. For some reason, I have a feeling you will like playing that on the violin.

Was this composition posted on the forum? I vaguely remember hearing it- but I do not have it.

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 03 Jul 2008, 07:34

I am back. My absence is due to the demands of personal life, summer travel, etc. The next composition posted is the companion to the previously posted piece on M. Dikshitar.

Best Wishes,
Sangeet Rasik

â€œvAggEyasamrAjamâ€

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 00:20

This post is for collecting additional notes/clarifications regarding the above composition.

One novel contribution made by M. Dikshitar to CM kritis is the concept of having precisely constructed "madhyama/druta kala" passages which, when sung in a proper manner, create an excellent effect at the culmination of the composition. In the present composition, the drutakala passages in the charanam are designed in such a manner. Rather than focus on beating the tala with the hand while singing, it is better to focus on the precise rendition of the syllables. Each of the 4 half-lines in this section occupies 2 chaputala cycles, i.e. 14 beats each. Since the passages are sung in drutakala, each beat can be further divided into 2, i.e. 28 total. The distribution of syllables in all the four half-lines is metered to be exactly 28. So the precise rendition of these syllables will not only create an exciting end to the composition, but also ensures that the vocalist will come out in perfect "samam" with the mridangam at the end. MD's composition "tyAgarAjaya namastE" has a similar finish in the charanam, although the tala is different (rupaka).

There are a few "unusual" prayogas in the composition:

1) Strengthening of plain madhyam (M), e.g. at "-ham" in the pallavi and "angaraka" in the anupallavi.

2) Similarly, use of a stronger D in the prayoga (D M G R S). While D M G R S is a well-known prayoga, the M is usually given more attention. However, at "-Syanutam" (anupallavi), the D is more strongly emphasized. The last word "cidAnandam", on the other hand, has the "usual" D M G R S prayoga.

3) Use of S in two different octaves, followed by a meend to M ("sa Sam-)". This prayoga is not commonly seen. Also note that it is a "suchita" svarakshara (Sa Sa M).

4) Near-approach to prati-M in "cidambaradikshitam", walking the line between bEgaDA and hamIr. The prati M is not reached in fact,but the approach evokes a shade of hamIr. You can also find it in the second sangati of "pallavapada-" in the anupallavi of MD's "vallabhAnAyakasya", as well as at "mAmava" in the anupallavi of his "SrI mAtah".

In general, begada, hamir, and kannada have much in common. I began the very brief alapana with "G M R G ... D P" which gives a hint of begada but could lead to the other ragas depending on what is articulated next. With "M, G R S (N) D P" I clearly establish begada. If I had used "G M R S" next, it would be kannada and if I used "G M D, " it would establish hamIr.

SR

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jul 2008, 02:28

SR: Very nicely done. Begada is one of my favorite ragas and I enjoyed your rendition very much. Just a couple of days back, I happened to have a conversation with someone about the uniqueness of Begada and glad to see your composition in Begada today.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2008, 03:27

Thank you SR for sharing your composition with us. Yes, very nice!

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 04 Jul 2008, 03:50

Ever since joining the forum, I have not gone through this particular thread in detail. SR, a very nice kriti and being a lover of CM as well as the Sanskrit language, I am delighted to see this. Will go thro the earlier posts in detail. Thanks once again.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 04 Jul 2008, 04:17

SR,
A nice creation of sAhitya, bEgaDa, and the tAla. One has to listen separately for each of these to fully understand your composition.
You should explain some special prayogams you used in this composition.

I see some verylongtonguetwistingwords...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2008, 05:50

Suji
I second you.

saralasamsk^RitakavisamrAjakaviracitaguruguhaprashamsanIyakaTukuTilajihvArOdanaprayOgabharitashailIk^Ritastuti adhimadhuramapidurj~nEyaM

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 06:21

Dear Rasiks (VK, Arasi, Punarvasu, Suji, and CML),

Thanks for your comments. I am glad to be back.

Suji,

Yes indeed, one way of analyzing this composition is to look at the individual components, hopefully after you are done with them you can look at it as an integrated whole (that is the ultimate intention of such compositions). I tried to make this "integration" as seamless as possible, there are hopefully no "contrived" areas. Some more notes will be added in post #585.

CML,

There are really only two "katukutilajihvarodanaprayogas" in the entire composition, and they are not that "durjneya" either. They are inserted for a specific reason, because they fit very well with the need for a "fast and exciting finale". Regarding the length, they do not exceed some of the "records" set by MD and ST. We discussed some of these previously (along with VGV) in a different thread.

Best Wishes,
SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2008, 18:34

Dear SR:

A fitting reply is provided by Jayadeva! I simply quote:

vÃ¤caÃ¹ pallavayatyumÃ¤patidharaÃ¹ sandarbhaÃ§uddhim girÃ¤m
jÃ¤nÃ©te jayadeva eva Ã§araÃ«aÃ¹ Ã§lÃ¤ghyo durÃ¼hadrute |
Ã§Ã¥Ã¬gÃ¤rottarasatprameyaracanairÃ¤cÃ¤ryagovardhana
spardhÃ© ko'pi na viÃ§rutaÃ¹ Ã§rutidharo dhoyÃ© kavikÃ±mÃ¤patiÃ¹ || 1-4

(Poet Umaapatidhara uses words with prolixity and with expansile meanings, poet Sharana is praiseworthy for his unpronounceable speedy wordplay, none is an antagonist to the scholarly poet Govardhana, for he inferentially prioritises romance, poet Shrutidhara is renowned as an expert wordsmith, poet Dhoyii is a king among poets, but poet Jayadeva alone knows the situational properness of words and wordplay. )

Note: Poet Umaapatidhara is verbose with words of prolixity and with expansile meanings, hence he is a poetaster with strident and shrilly words vaagaaDambaram, poet Sharana is praiseworthy for his unpronounceable speedy wordplay, hence he is unintelligible and unexplainable, and none is an antagonist to the scholarly poet Govardhana, for he prioritises romance alone, thus when he is bereft of other aesthetics, he is unfit to be called as a pedagogic scholar, aachaarya, for his treatise on alankaara shaastra named aaryaa sapta shati, and poet Dhoyii, a self-styled king of poets, is renowned for his parroted poetry, thus he is hardly a poet, but poet Jayadeva alone knows the situational properness of words and wordplay, hence he alone is the poet of the day...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:12

CML,
Good to hear from you--and that too in detail! Thanks for the meaning of the verse. Fascinating!
SR now has the right person to exchange his view points with. Waiting in the gallery, eating my peanuts...

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:21

Back in the medieval times it was customary for desperate poets to declare oneself the "best poet" and compare oneself to other "eminent poets", and thus officially join the fray for the attention of the king or other rich people in order to make a living.

Contrast with the genuine humility of the best of them:

"kva sUryaprabhavO vanSah kva ca alpavishayA matih |
titIrshur dustaram mohAduDupEnAsmi sAgaram ||" (Raghuvansha 1.2).

Similarly, I consider myself lucky to have a "saptasvararAgarNavanAvam" for guidance.

Since I am not in a situation similar to Jayadeva's, I have no problem being declared the poet combining the worst qualities of all noted above ! However, as mentioned earlier the construction of every word in the composition has a purpose, all the way from long compound words to monosyllablic interjections like "vai" .

SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:28

Arasi

My point is that anything cannot become a 'kriti'. The language has to be easy and mellifluous and of course meaningful and educational to please a rasika.
ARI jocularly used to sing
Thiruppathikku pOi vanthEn GOvindA
Thiru moTTai aDitthu vanthEn GOvindA
Even one can sing nonsense syllables in music but it certainly turns a rasika off. What maybe pleasing to the ears may not be pleasing to the iintellect. That is one of the reasons rasikas request lyrics in their mother tongue so that they can relish the meaning along with the melody!
Of course CM is language-free but unfortunately the rasika is not language free

This is no reflection on the creative abilities of SR but only suggesting that the language can be simple and elegant and easy on the tongue and certainly not pedantic!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:38

kALidAsa was not a musician!
For that matter one would never attempt to sing 'kAdambari' or 'dAshakumaracaritram' (both are excellent sanskrit prose).
I fail to see how each verbal construction is there to make a point. Pl clarify!

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:41

cmlover wrote:My point is that anything cannot become a 'kriti'. The language has to be easy and mellifluous and of course meaningful and educational to please a rasika.

This is no reflection on the creative abilities of SR but only suggesting that the language can be simple and elegant and easy on the tongue and certainly not pedantic!

Not sure if it is wise to generalize one's personal opinion. What is easy and mellifluous for one may not be for another. There is no pedantry in any of the above posted compositions. Everything is in proportion as required. Compound words in Sanskrit are a well-accepted way of condensing information into a single word.

On the other hand, one might question if CM is being "dumbed down" in the modern age to the level of "popular culture"...all in the guise of "simplicity" and "elegance".

SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 20:58

cmlover wrote:kALidAsa was not a musician!
For that matter one would never attempt to sing 'kAdambari' or 'dAshakumaracaritram' (both are excellent sanskrit prose).
I fail to see how each verbal construction is there to make a point. Pl clarify!

CML,

As I hinted earlier, we have discussed this before. You seem to have an impression that the use of long compound words is meant to befuddle the rasik. To refresh your memory, there are plenty of musicians who have no difficulty in singing compound words like "nidAghadattAtrEyakapilavAmadEvadyAsaSukAdivanditapadAmbhOjayugalam" .

I will suggest that perhaps you are not willing to make the effort of singing it in the proper manner. Singing it properly may turn out to be a more rewarding experience than remaining in the realm of "simplicity" (whatever that means).

We all get to a stage wherein we feel free to criticize complexity in the guise of embracing "simplicity". There is some merit in that, but let me assure you that I am not obsessed with technical constructions to the point that aesthetics and elegance is excluded.

Again, I daresay there is no lack of musicians who can sing this kriti without tongue-twisting problems. I have made my views clear on what I believe are desirable things in CM and I will continue to compose as such. Ultimately the purpose of these compositions is to please myself that I have done something that adds value (not to seek popularity). Secondarily, they also challenge the musician and the rasik. Thus they may not be targeted at the type of rasik who seeks instant gratification. If someone agrees with my objectives, then well and good.

Finally, these arguments are worthless and I am not going to engage in them. I have presented the composition. Now the rasiks can reflect upon it as long as they like. Some may want to form an opinion in 5 minutes, others may form one in 5 years. If any clarifications/discussions are needed regarding the music or content, I will supply them.

SR

Sangeet Rasik · Post by **Sangeet Rasik** » 04 Jul 2008, 21:10

cmlover wrote:kALidAsa was not a musician! I fail to see how each verbal construction is there to make a point. Pl clarify!

The entire composition is anchored around the consonant "va" and its variants (vai, vE, etc). Apart from the usual rhyming guidelines of CM compositions, the consonant "va" is used to alliterate within the composition. In the compositions presented, both consonance and assonance are used extensively. Furthermore, these are interspersed (or sometimes combined) with swaraksharas. All of this is done with careful consideration of the music which ultimately carries the day. A balance is strived for. You will not find contrived attempts to generate "swarakshara kritis", or forcibly insert a raga mudra, or simply pile on a list of adjectives to generate a "gopuccha/srotovaha yati".

In summary, I am not just putting together whatever words come to mind and then setting them to music. Everything has a purpose in my mind, it is well deliberated. Some may like it, others may not. Yet others may be of the opinion that everything needs to be "spontaneous". It's all good.

SR

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2008, 21:14

dEvasabhApsarAgandharvavijayaviSishTagAnaprabhavam |
(Who is the creator of excellent music surpassing that of the Gandharvas and Apsaras in the court of the Devas,)
Look at this atrocity. Does it add anything elegant or meaningful (granted it is a poetic hyperbole) to understanding MD.
How about:
vishiShTam apsaragandharva sangIta tulyaM api atyadhikaM
(It is special. Equivalent to the music of Apsaras and gandharvas. Nay! even more)
Enough syllables here for the durita kaalam, but conveys the idea in simpler terms!

Perhaps I should stop here and let other rasikas express their views.
I fully concur with your opinon that one creates poems from an inner urge and the primary goal is 'self-satisfaction'.

lOkO bhinna ruci