Sabha Organisers and Auditoriums

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 06 Dec 2007, 10:33

I thought of starting this topic for everyone to post their experiences (good and bad) in the different auditoriums. Moderators - feel free to remove this or merge it with some other topic if it's not appropriate.

I had a forgettable experience at Sivagami Petachi Auditorium during TMK's concert. The Air Conditioning in this hall spins out of control by the time the artiste reaches the submain. It gets freezing cold and it makes it very difficult to enjoy the concert under such circumstances.

The second problem is a relatively minor one that might get into the realms of correct design. The exit doors in the hall have big handles. As per design, a handle affords pulling and not pushing. However, these doors open only when they are pushed. This is a classic case of "Norman Doors". I have seen many people trying to pull the door (and they pull harder if it resists) as they exit during the violin response to the main or tani and ending up as avoidable upa pakkavadhyam. The classic response is to blame the rasika for making the noise but the real problem is the doors are not designed correctly.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Dec 2007, 10:47

sbala
Doors in Airconditioned Halls or similar places where there may be a cause for people to rush out (say due to a Fire or an accident) are deliberately designed to be of the PUSH variety from the insides.It is as per safety Norms .

sraja · Post by **sraja** » 06 Dec 2007, 11:12

The men's toilet at Narada Gana Sabha is a disgrace. The separators in the urinal are missing and nothing is being done. The Sabha which charges such high admission rates does not bother about facilities for the rasikas. Shame on Narada Gana Sabha!

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 06 Dec 2007, 11:22

cool,
im not against push variety. but the handles give the indication that its a pull variety. This is a common design mistake.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 06 Dec 2007, 21:43

the A/C is set too cold in a lot of halls... I have experienced that problem in Vani Mahal, Nungambakkam Cultural Academy (RamRao kala mandap) and even now Sastri Hall (for some inane reason they put A/C now, it was fine before).

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 06 Dec 2007, 21:45

Do we need A/C since this is winter time? Or is it required to avoid musquitoes? Or is this a way to charge more?

-hari

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Dec 2007, 02:43

It is certainly a way to increase costs, whether or not these are recovered. This refrigeration of halls is horrible, especially at this time of year. Why should we have to carry shawls to wear during the concerts?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Dec 2007, 05:04

Apart from removing the handle, a simple sign stuck on the door stating "push" (perhaps in English and Thamizh) should help!

I think A/C is required even in winter because the mere body heat of 100s of people will make the auditorium stuffy. Nonetheless,
I too find the A/C termerature in Madras auditoria often too cold. Every time I attend the music season I end up with a cough which I attribute to stepping from the warm humid outside air to the chill inside the auditoria!

Surely thermostat controls and a slightly higher temperature setting would fix the problem!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Dec 2007, 05:45

Every time I attend the music season I end up with a cough which I attribute to stepping from the warm humid outside air to the chill inside the auditoria!

The doctors in the forum can correct me, but there are probably quite a few other (chennai/india pecific ) reasons for your cough and not the temperature difference ( though this is what people normally think that they catch cold/cough from ).

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 07 Dec 2007, 05:49

I have to agree with sraja on the condition of toilets in NGS. I went there "out of season" time ( very recently) and the condition was "yak". It is indeed pathetic that scant attention is paid to such basic needs by such reputed organisation. Music Academy was no better either...it was stinking. Some one has to take a big stick and bring some sanity to this situation.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Dec 2007, 06:43

vasanthakokilam wrote:The doctors in the forum can correct me, but there are probably quite a few other (chennai/india pecific ) reasons for your cough and not the temperature difference ( though this is what people normally think that they catch cold/cough from ).

Well it is probably the dust/pollution as well!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Dec 2007, 06:46

Well, people with some forms of asthma/reactive airway disease can react to a sudden exposure to cold with a cough. Not unheard of.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 07 Dec 2007, 10:15

i dont like the acoustics at NGS main hall.

the balcony at bvb audi is scary. u have sit with a feeling, 'aiyo yeppo keezha vizhuvomo...' its too steep.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 07 Dec 2007, 10:16

the central pillar at ramana kendram and the swami's hall are disturbing at times.

the absolutely uncomfortable chairs and the rates at koLLai (Krishna) gAna sabhA are scary also.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 07 Dec 2007, 10:47

rbharath wrote:the balcony at bvb audi is scary. u have sit with a feeling, 'aiyo yeppo keezha vizhuvomo...' its too steep.

Bharath - I was about post the same thing yesterday and then decided against it as I thought maybe it was just me who felt like that. It sure simulates the experience of hanging from a cliff. And I doubt those fire extinguishers will come to our rescue when called for. They are probably lying dormant since the golden days of carnatic music

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 07 Dec 2007, 11:01

While i am already confused about which concert to attend (I have time for only one at the most 2)
vocal vs instrument
male vs female performers
senior vs young
Now I have to add which hall to go to

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Dec 2007, 11:03

rshankar wrote:Well, people with some forms of asthma/reactive airway disease can react to a sudden exposure to cold with a cough. Not unheard of.

Thanks for straightening me out, rshankar. Yes, now I recall, I have seen people with Asthma being uncomfortable in A/C environments.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 07 Dec 2007, 11:55

To add to the cribs..

Poor A/c and sound systems - almost all sabhas
Academy - awful balcony seats, poorly designed lobby/entrance. Toilet has been done up although maintenance can vary
NGS - as pointed out, the loo...
KGS...Nice audi but terrible prices! Unexciting canteen fare. Parking
MFAC - Almost everything...except the ambience/crowd, which I why I bother to go at all
BGS - Despite sBala's complaint, one of the better ones in my experienceel...but there are these barriers which make it difficult to slip out during the tani

.
Vani Mahal - Cramped canteen, Parking
BVB - Probably my favourite but limited seating and no canteen (although Karpagambal Mess makes up somewhat)
PSS - Uncomfortable and noisy plastic chairs. Atrocious loo
Kalarasana - Musty stink in the hall. Cramped seats towards the side. Poor canteen fare
Mudhra - Can't see anything from the back rows...noisy plastic chairs
PSBB/YGP Audi - Thanksfully no A/c but plastic Chairs and poor stage visibility from the back. Loos desgined for kids!
Shastri Hall - Chairs can be noisy...I don't know if a loo even exists...
Raga Sudha Hall - Limited seating, plastic chairs. Oddly designed loo

Ah...I feel better already

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Dec 2007, 11:57

As a rule, I try to avoid sabha toilets. Even then, I cannot avoid the stink as I pass them. I see all the beautifully dressed performers and the audience who are there to celebrate the fine arts in the hall. The bharata natyam dancer in her finery performs with skill to bring to us the ambiance of bygone times of towering temples, beautiful sights and the fragrance of flowers. Get out of the auditorium and you are brought back to your senses, with the 'scents' of the sabha!
The few times I have been in Krishna Gana Sabha the seats made me fidget and reposition myself so many times. They are indeed very uncomfortable chairs.
Vijay, you have an impressive list!

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 07 Dec 2007, 12:19

sbala, of coz the bvb balcony is scary. i choose to sit backstage on many occasions, rather than sitting in the balcony.

vijay,

bvb has a "make-shift" canteen running for their series now. it is operating at the hall reception.
mudra, accessibility. the trains which keep blaring in the back drop, (anybody reminded of airport concert?)
YGP Audi, well its a school, it will have kids toilet only. Mrs YGP's constant exercise to her face muscles is what puts me off there...
shastri hall, has a loo, in the sides, behind the main building, though i sincerely wish u dont have to go there.

PS High School, the musquito menance is sometimes very painful.

the one audi i havent yet found (m)any cribs about is 'tattvaloka' audi on eldams road. only problem there is the "highly" efficient airconditioner...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 07 Dec 2007, 12:26

What about
Rani Seethai Hall
Vidya bharati
Bharata Kalakshetra
Ramarao kala mantap ?
I guess they should be no different

I would be in one of those.

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 07 Dec 2007, 13:22

rbharath..i perfectly agree with ur views on the bvb balcony..it is indeed scary....especially when u see all the old people trying to manouever the seats...the ground floor looks better now though..i also prefer the stage seats to the balcony...recently i had a very interesting experience sitting cross legged in te front row of the balcony!!!!!!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Dec 2007, 13:33

Interesting to know that Sastri Hall does have a loo, although it sounds best avoided if possible.

Does one have to go outside, around the side of the building?

Ragha Sudha hall I have a great liking for --- but the chairs are very uncomfortable, especially for the less-padded among us! The fans can be over-enthusiastic, but I've noticed recently a tendency for audience members to find the switches and take over control of them!

A case of fans controlling fans, I suppose

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 07 Dec 2007, 13:54

Last time I attended a concert at PS High School I came out needing a blood transfusion since the mosquitoes had feasted heartily! I'm going to carry my own 'kachua chhaap' when I go there next time

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 07 Dec 2007, 14:53

Suji Ram wrote:What about
Rani Seethai Hall
Vidya bharati
Bharata Kalakshetra
Ramarao kala mantap ?
I guess they should be no different
I would be in one of those.

rani seethai hall is the venue of kalarasna. refer to vijay's post...

Vidya bharathi is the venue of parthasarathy swami sabha. vijay has spoke of this place also.

kalakshetra auditorium is a lil far from music centered areas of madras. if its the same place i have been to, then the mosquito menace would continue i think... also the chairs arent particularly helpful either.

Ramarao kala mantap, i havent been there at all.

Indian Fine Arts, german hall, is also little cramping with uncomfortable old chairs. the stage is barely visible from wherever in the auditorium. however acoustics are tolerable.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 07 Dec 2007, 15:11

the main reason for all these,lapses like bad hygeine, uncomfortable seats, is too many performances are held in a day . the show starts at 7am and goesupto midnight or even later , no time for cleaning, and the general uncivilised usage of the loos, the ever pervading water shortage there . the sabha secretaries have to please all vidwans,, in addition to pleasing all vips. NRIs who request a chance in the sabhas for their performers , in the season itself . .where in the world such a show goes on? the dirt and the bad hygeine is there tosee everywhere. have you seen the inside of big starred hotels.? .with all these inconveniences the show goes on year after year thanks to the brave listeners. i am not supporting the organizers . it has become the way of our iives, tolerating all bad things for something good gobilalitha

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 07 Dec 2007, 17:11

NGS acoustics were excellent during Carnatica's Bharat Sangeet Utsav. I wonder if they hired a professional firm.

Nick - Sastri hall loo is a horror. I know you are an adventurous soul but let me warn you that any move in that direction would be an ill-advised one.

gobilalitha - The sabhas make enough money during the season to ensure basic amenities. One can accept if they are making some effort and failing but I don't think there is anything happening along those lines..It's high time they are lambasted in the press for such negligence.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 07 Dec 2007, 17:49

though I have generalised the whole things, the sabha authorities can definitely do some thing to attend to the grievances of the unfortunate, sportive music lovers . gobilalitha

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Dec 2007, 17:55

Yes, I would agree that gobilalitha is being a little over-generous to the organisers here.

The reason toilets are in the state they are is that they are not cared about.

Isn't about a year since we had an entire thread on this particular aspect alone?

Sbala... the toilets at Vasantha Bhavan, otherwise my favourite Mylapore eating place, are so dreadful that it is better to use their car park.

Many hall organisers and many hotel managers need to understand that my attitude to housework ("But I did it! Last month!") will not do for the health or happiness of the public. These places require full-time cleaners.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 07 Dec 2007, 18:00

music academy gallery gives you a feeling that you are on the top of a hill. the leg space is so cramped that you sometimes get a feeling that you are resting your feet on the shoulders of the person sitting in front of you!
mylapore fine arts is full of mosquitos and you have to go with toroise mosquito coil to Hamsadwani.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Dec 2007, 18:38

BTW, how is the kUttambalam on the campus of kalAkSEtra?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 07 Dec 2007, 23:44

Thanks bharat,
conditions of the halls are same even if I changed the name

And mosquitos love me so much..

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 07 Dec 2007, 23:55

Any decent auditoriums at all?
There must be at least one...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Dec 2007, 03:28

These days it is common for mainstream magazine writers to write about what people say in blogs and make a story out of it. Ananda vikatan should write a story about what is being said here ( and earn back some brownie points lost with forum members with that top 5 survey

)

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 08 Dec 2007, 10:01

ragam-talam - For people trying to get a flavor of the season, The Academy and KGS are the safe choices and are the premium sabhas from an artistes point of view. I agree with bharat that kgs does kollai. My suggestion is to observe the crowd from outside and then go to the ticker counter. I have had some bad experiences with that fellow selling me Rs 200 tickets only to find that the audi is full and was told to sit outside and listen. Academy beats kgs hands down on the canteen as well. kgs had a proper family (I think his name is gurumurthy mama) preparing authentic south indian food which blended very well with the ambience. Now, they contract with Geetha Cafe or one those horrible restaurants. I have a strong suspicion that the guy at the ticker counter pockets a lumpsum as commission.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Dec 2007, 14:42

Ragam Talam I was just giving the negative side - of course there are good audis...we had a discussion earlier but to repeat my favourites are:

Academy for sheer ambience despite all the hassles - got myself a season ticket yet again
KGS as pointed out above - nothing to beat the aesthetics of the design and a decent system too - pity about the food
YGP Audi - I just love the open air feel
BVB - When it is not full..which it often is...
Kalarasana - Stinks but acoustics are (usually) good and the hall somehow evokes a strong sense of occasion.
Sastry Hall/Raga Sudha - Two halls around Luz with lots of character, decent acoustics and air conditions...but no food and plastic chairs
NGS - This is worth it for the food alone!

I think most of my concerts will be in the above halls.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 08 Dec 2007, 22:21

I heeded Bharat's advice and went to the stage. BVB is always houseful and all my yoga skills were put to the test today. The good news is that I had a chance to observe the fire extinguishers from up close and they are going through proper maintenance procedures.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Dec 2007, 22:39

Bala,
You should have taken a picture from your vantage point of the fire extinguishers and the performers to vie with Vijay's concert shots.Then again, they would have thrown you out. Cameras aimed at the stage are nuisance enough...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Dec 2007, 23:39

Eh? My concert "shorts"...maybe in summer but never during the season!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Dec 2007, 23:43

Vijay!
A blooper!
Yes, I edited it:)

meena · Post by **meena** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:02

My 2 cents:

How many seasons have we discussed abt the Sabha/ restroom/ canteen conditions???

:rolleyes:
This has always been THE hot topic, here and on bboard.

Looks like the sabha org/ owners DO NOT give a hoot, as long as the artists keep performing and rasikas keep attending.

Don't u think its time the artists AND rasikas took a stand on this???

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Dec 2007, 03:24

Same thoughts here, Meena.

I have seen a few letters to the editor of Hindu complainig about such things as well.

There are some well known ratios of the number of toilet stalls to the seating capacity. If the facilities are not in the same ball park as these ratios, any amount of cleaning can not catch up to the usage. So there may be some fundamental infrastructure issues in many of these auditoria. But atleast one can hope for and expect some gradual improvements over time.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 09 Dec 2007, 10:39

The Government has a huge budget for tourism development - all it takes is perhaps a crore to ensure that the top 5-6 sabhas are done up...but maybe that's opening another pandora's box....BTW, there was some news last year about the Government doing its bit for the seaosn...no visible interventions so far

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 Dec 2007, 12:54

Don't u think its time the artists AND rasikas took a stand on this???

Perhaps this is one area where a rasikas forum such as this one can take some action.
For a start, how about instituting a ranking/award to sabhas based on their infrastructure facilities?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:18

Or we could have the Bad Toilet award.

Like the literary guys have the Bad Sex award, or the scientists have the Ignoble prizes

I'd love to see the presentation ceremony. If it wasn't India we could garland with toilet roll.

But we could still give cleaning cloths instead of shawls....

Sorry, guys... imagination. Gets out of control. It happens sometimes!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:19

Since the sabhas rent their premises out for various events off season (not strictly for classical music), could they set aside a percentage of their income for MAINTENANCE? I was shocked by the state of the seats in the MA mini hall where my CD was released--let alone a fresh coat of paint it badly needed. I was told they were going to repaint soon. Don't know if it has happened. The disfigured seats I was told were victims of vandalic behavior of pop concert goers! To me, a prestigious academy and other sabhas which draw rasikAs from all over the world ought to provide decent amenities and a welcoming atmosphere.
I have heard comments like ' you from the west are finicky'. We are entitled to be so because we clean our own toilets and are proud of it.
ragam-taLam,
A good idea but I am afraid the rating would only spotlight the sub-standard condition (and worse) of the sabha's state of cleanliness. We have discussed it before that when we pay a pretty penny for the seats, we are entitled to some comforts. Washroom attendants are a must and so too the supervision of them. Rasikas can speak up about it too when they make a visit .When we traveled to Beluru and Halebid, we stopped at a very nice restaurant with lovely food, but the facilities were sub-normal. I told the manager that unless the toilets are cleaned with disinfectant, I would delay going to Beluru and help them in cleaning them. After a round of apologies, the manager saw to it that the toilets were clean. I told him I would 'check on' their condition on my return trip!
Another incident in a south Indian town: we were put up in the best hotel in town which was very well appointed--until I entered the bathroom! I saw them clean it for me again when I demanded it. The implements were pathetic--dirty rags, no idea about HOW to clean. Like a 'queen', I asked them to bring clean rags, and as they watched me in disbelief, I gave that bathroom a thorough clean up (many moon's maintenance job in one go)! Today, I don't have the stomach to check on whether it made any difference...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:25

I second Nick's idea...even if we can't festoon the sabha secretary with a toilet roll, let these worthies at least find a mention on this forum...so far (and the season is young) - the competition is between MFAC and NGS....on the other side of the spectrum, the Academy's newly renovated loos stil reign.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:32

I wish we had those "magical owls" which would pound them with letters until something is done- like in Harry Potter.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Dec 2007, 16:52

If the academy wants money from pop concerts, then it must finance the repairs out of it. That's fair, isn't it?

I seem to remember that its affairs were more-or-less frozen due to its internal political implosion --- but isn't it supposed to have been steaming ahead under new management for more than a year now?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Dec 2007, 16:54

Is there a complete gulf between rasikas.org and the sabbha committees?

Not one of them is one of us?

(or is no-one owning up to it

)