Carnatica's 10th anniversary - Sept 10th 2007 - An invite!

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 10 Sep 2007, 09:37

On the occasion of Carnatica's 10th birthday (9th anniversary) we invite all rasikas, members, students, patrons and well-wishers to join us at Raga Sudha Hall, Luz, Mylapore today (Sept 10th 2007) at 5.30pm. It will be an informal gathering with a few recitals by our gurukulam students, a multimedia presentation, spot quizzes for rasikas and a panel discussion on 'Carnatic Music - Past, Present & Future', featuring Smt. Suguna Purushottaman, Chitravina Sri. Ravikiran, Sri. R. Suryaprakash, Sri. S. M. Kulkarni, Dr. Sriram Parasuram and K. N. Shashikiran.

ALL ARE WELCOME!

We look forward to seeing you!

Ramanathan
Editor, Carnatica

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 10 Sep 2007, 16:29

heartiest congrats . may god bless the organizers. continue the divine work. what a galaxy of stars are gathering this evening .gobilalitha, bangalore

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Sep 2007, 16:41

Ramanathan Sir, many congratulations on completing 10 years - it is indeed creditable that your organization has managed to cross this important milestone. Carnatica is a voice to reckon with in the carnatic music field and credit is due to the zealous efforts of its founders including yourself, Sowmya and Shashikiran.

I would have loved to attend this program (especially since Coolji is among the moderators!). Unfortunately I am already many miles from Chennai...I do however look forward to the Bharat Sangeeth Utsav which I hope will be even grander this time, than its previous avathars!

Wishing Carnatica all the best in its future endeavours!

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 10 Sep 2007, 19:02

Our own Coolkarni is on the panel... I would have loved to be able to attend as well.

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 10 Sep 2007, 22:44

Thanks folks, for the good wishes and warm words.

Tonight's function went off pretty well. We had a lively discussion; perhaps 'ram' (I'm quite sure it was him in the black shirt!) might post about the debate either here or in his blog. Coolji was initially very hesitant when I invited him to be on the panel, since he felt that the last time he participated it was a 'disaster'. Don't know why he thought so, but we were glad to have him again.

vijay, yes we are planning this year's edition of Bharat Sangeet Utsav to be a grand event. Dates remain the same: starting as before on Nov. 1st and going on until 11th with a two-day Diwali break on 7th & 8th. We are still in the process of finalizing artistes and schedules and also lining up the mandatory 'fuel' [sponsorships

] I'll post here as well as on our Carnatica forum once we have a clear picture. Look forward to seeing you there! (BTW, pls drop the 'sir'!)

Thanks once again for everyone's good wishes... we value your support and participation. If you have the time and inclination to pitch in with some help, please do contact us. I'd especially appreciate help from rasikas who are tech-savvy and conversant with the latest web design technologies! TIA

Ramanathan

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 11 Sep 2007, 13:40

m waiting for the schedules...

sad that i couldnt make it yesterday

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Sep 2007, 16:32

Ramanathan (obliging your request!) - good to hear about the event. Ram has officially retired from concert reviewing (although this one does not really qualify as a concert) so I request you to provide a brief summary anyway. Also eagerly waiting for the schedules - here's looking forward to some firecrackers before and after Diwali!

I am happy to contribute in any way although given my travel schedule and my techno-idiocy, it is unlikely to be anything meaningful. Anyway, if there is any low value-add work (i.e not too demanding musically or technically!) that can be handled remotely, feel free to drop me a line.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 11 Sep 2007, 21:57

This isn't a review as there is a good chance I might end up misquoting some of them. Some of the topics that were discussed (not in any particular order) include

1. Repertoire - Is it really important?
2. Rasika-Vidwan exchanges in the past and present
3. Online Reviews and credibility of reviewers in the modern age

(Um...this forum is definitely creating some ripples if not waves )
4. Should vidwans present lesser known compositions/Ragas and make them the masterpieces of our generation?
5. Learning in the past compared to present
6. Students are quicker to grasp these days and are very analytical but do they do enough sadakam as the vidwans of the past
7. Sticking to the Guru's bani or singing different banis
8. Is CM getting diluted?

There were some more issues discussed as well. It was a healthy discussion but I also came out feeling that I did not hear anything new.

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 13 Sep 2007, 12:40

vijay, given the fact that I was moving in and out of the hall several times taking care of logistics, I could not pay full attention to the discussion; which is why I hoped that someone who sat through would write. sbala has given a brief summary already. bala, I got your mail and will respond to you soon.

Thanks,
Ramanathan

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 13 Sep 2007, 14:43

ramanathan/sbala,
Based on the 8 points that sbala mentioned , I am assuming the first 7 always has got shades of gray viewpoints, perhaps we all can search the forum posts here to have more viewpoints here than in the discussion there(not implying those discussions on that were not good ).

I would like to specifically know what the panel thought for point 8"Is CM gettting diluted?". Was there a consensus there with all panelists where there was an acceptance of dilution or was it more that panelists felt that CM has not diluted and it is only that rasikas have this old is gold syndrome. (To me CM has definitely diluted when compared to 40's to 60's. )

On a more questioning note, was there any mention about the dwindling audience of rasikas in the concerts? That to me is unfortunate , I am not tying with any other parameters above with dwindling audience. Certainly the quality of CM is still there with every present day artist(s) to have much more audience than what is today?(As of today, other than Smt Aruna Sayeeram , almost everyone is drawing lot lesser audience than what they can for their respective music ).

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 13 Sep 2007, 16:33

I'm a little bit reluctant to air my views on that topic of dilution as I wasn't living in the 40s or 50s to know what was real or what was branded..But, Ravikiran made a point that people were talking of carnatic music's dilution even during that period and he cited the source as Kalki's reviews. He said the current lot is stronger on grammar while the previous generations accepted the guru's words on faith on such matters. He also said that the masterpieces created by yesteryear vidwans weren't just an illusion. If you analyse their music objectively as a student, there will be no doubt that they created something special. So the general consensus seemed to be that we have improved in some areas but have declined in others.

On a slightly different topic, he says the biggest contribution of Trinity was in simplifying music. He feels that music before the trinity was even more sophisticated and he was mentioning about Bhagavatha Mela and Oothukadu Venkata Kavi's compositions in rare thalams with gathi bedhams that not many composers have handled.He did not talk about Venkata Kavi during this discussion but he did say so during his lecdem at KGS

I was left wondering if the process of simplifying the artform is still continuing among the mainstream artistes though there might be a few who would perform complex pieces now and then. If it is, are we misinterpreting it as dilution?

Please take all this with a bag of salt as these are at best my interpretation of what Ravikiran and the other panelists said.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Sep 2007, 19:12

Bala,
Thank you for your post. What Ravikiran says is to be taken seriously. His interest in CM (forgetting for a moment his status as a topnotch musician), is tremendous. Coming from him, the word 'dilution' gains its appropriate meaning. I say this because the term is used willynilly, just like the word 'fusion'.
Above all, Ravikiran is a classicist.

Ramanathan,
Is it possible to get a gist of what the panelists said? After all, the speakers would have had some prepared material (at least, notes). Could you kindly post them if they are available? We would like to hear the salient points of all participants, and that includes Shashi Kulkarni as well...

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 05 Oct 2007, 13:40

ramanathan wrote:vijay, yes we are planning this year's edition of Bharat Sangeet Utsav to be a grand event. Dates remain the same: starting as before on Nov. 1st and going on until 11th with a two-day Diwali break on 7th & 8th. We are still in the process of finalizing artistes and schedules and also lining up the mandatory 'fuel' [sponsorships ] I'll post here as well as on our Carnatica forum once we have a clear picture. Look forward to seeing you there!

The schedule for Bharat Sangeet Utsav 2007, as promised:

Pls check: http://rasika.carnatica.net/viewtopic.php?t=1553

Rgds,
Ramanathan.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Oct 2007, 16:15

rAmanathan and Carnatica team,
Slowly in the last few years , perhaps I am thinking more in terms of long term health of Carnatic Music where it has to live very healthily for generations to come.

From that angle ,I have one major problem with the way you organize concerts with the tag " Programmes are FREE and open to ALL music lovers". You are really spoiling a city with your free concerts where later even when any sabha holds a concert the rasikas either feel they need not go and wait for the next concert which is free. Net net effect we all lose.

Just few questions you can take and answer.

1. What is stopping you from charging a minimum Rs 25/- for a concert ?

2. Assuming you have 1600 folks who are seated for a concert in NGS(visaka hari will have a full house for sure), I am sure if you put a Rs 25/- for that you may have only 50% attendance .That is fine slowly more and more people will be willing to pay ? Does that not suffice?

3. I guess you have got sponsors and they cover up your cost and perhaps your organization is reaping benefits commercially too and you are caught in a tangle where more people participation is a mandate that is thrusted by the sponsors ? Is that the strategy that you have to adopt. I am not sure what is the priority but I prefer as one of the leading carnatic event sponsors you can sacrifice for the long term health of the CM and musicians by not making it free.

4. Last year some time when Smt Visaka hari was performing for Carnatica ,even when I was willing to pay for that days daily concert , the seats were all full so I had to go back. Net effect freebies are at times blocking folks who can pay to some extent and who are just making it at the last minute?

Bottomline ,somebody has to bell the cat? Why can't Carnatica initiate it? I looked at the list it is very impressive line up. Keep up your good work in addition to belling the cat.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 05 Oct 2007, 18:42

You are really spoiling a city with your free concerts where later even when any sabha holds a concert the rasikas either feel they need not go and wait for the next concert which is free.

Counter-arguments:
1. Different sabhas charge different rates - are you saying they should all charge the same, otherwise rasikas will wait for cheaper concerts? Your above statement implies this.
2. There could be a few ardent rasikas who are not that well-off and may have to miss priced concerts. Free concerts provide them an opportunity they would otherwise not have.
3. What's the basis for the 'minimum Rs 25/-'? Based on your affordability? Someone else may want it pegged at Rs 5, others at Rs 100
4. Finally, why not let an organization have their own rules for conducting their events? I feel Carnatica are doing a great service to CM. (Organizations such as Spic-Macay conduct free concerts too, don't they?)

A suggestion to Carnatica: Perhaps you can encourage patrons to donate what they can when they attend concerts.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Oct 2007, 20:13

Is this discussion a sign of economic prosperity in India or what?

Usually we hear complaints that concerts cost too much and that is an impediment to the future growth of CM.

ragam-thalam, I see this in the Carnatica announcement.

>3) A limited number of premium seats are reserved for each programme, for sponsors, patrons & donors. You are welcome to >support us by purchasing donor passes, which will entitle you to a premium seat for the programme you are interested in. Such >donor passes will be available AT THE VENUE on a daily basis. We do not accept advance reservations.

I guess you want them to expand it for other donors who want to donate without premium seating. That sounds like a good idea. If Carnatica does not 'need' the money, they can still do some good things with the money they collect.. like helping out elderly musicians who are in poverty, etc.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Oct 2007, 23:26

One other thing that can be done to make sure a serious rasika is not turned away from a filled auditorium is this is: to ask the rasikas to collect their complimentary ticket ahead of time. This way, Carnatica and other organizers can have a list of names by asking them to sign every time they attend a concert, and in due course they will have a regular attendees list. They could even send the invitations to such rasikas. This is practised in Bengaluru to a small degree. Seats could be reserved for the invitees. This way, a serious rasika who is caught up in work and arrives late can still get in and get a decent seat. As time goes on, there would be a roster of regular rasikas who would be informed every time when there is a concert. This would benefit both the rasikas and the organizers.
Yes, the rasikas can also donate money if they wish to...

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 06 Oct 2007, 00:33

Uh oh! The discussion has taken a completely unexpected turn... offering free seats is the last thing we expected to be pilloried for!

Part of the reason is probably a failure on our part to clearly communicate the seating/ticketing policy. We have amended the language in the schedule announcement and hopefully that should clear the ambiguity.

To respond to some of the questions and suggestions raised here:

* All seats were ticketed for the inaugural edition of the festival, back in 2005. But the returns from ticket sales were not enough to justify the logistical nightmares we faced. Also, as some of you rightly pointed out, sustained sponsor support depends on a filled auditorium. To achieve that in Chennai, there is a magic line that needs to be inserted in the programme announcement: "All Are Welcome!" Hence, the (very tough) decision in 2006 to make it a free event with limited reserved seats.

* Donations are welcome and accepted at all our events. Any amount, big or small, is welcome. Carnatica Archival Centre is a non-profit trust and every paisa of sponsorship and donations goes towards artiste compensation and event expenses. CAC does not profit from such events.

* We do have a membership roster and regular invitee list to whom invitations and event notifications are sent before each event.

* Please do join us at Bharat Sangeet Utsav. Your help - donations, CD purchases, a pair of helping hands, words of support - will go a long way in making this a success! Thanks, folks!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Oct 2007, 02:34

Ramanathan,
Your efforts are well appreciated! Good to know you have a regular invitees list. Now, it is up to the frequent attendees to speak to you folks so that their names can be added to the list.

Freebies draw crowds, and there are those who cannot afford to buy tickets either. Others can contribute as much as they wish and tend to the growth of CM...

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 29 Oct 2007, 12:40

Some small changes in the timings for various programmes at Bharat Sangeet Utsav 2007. Pls check the updated schedule:

http://rasika.carnatica.net/viewtopic.php?t=1553

Rgds,
Ramanathan.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Oct 2007, 08:11

Thank you, Ramanathan.
What a blast! What variety!
Hope our rasikAs attend in droves and bring to us far away folks enough reviews to savor.

gundakriya · Post by **gundakriya** » 04 Nov 2007, 07:33

Haven't been able to make it yet to any of the concerts in this festival. Songlists / reviews / experiences, anyone...??

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 04 Nov 2007, 19:56

I was mesmerised by Komkali Kalapini's concert. These are my initial steps into Hindustani and I'm certainly not the right person to describe the great music that we were treated to. Her voice is quite unbelievable and the meditative quality of the music shone right through. The main raga was Bilaskhani Todi. Apparently, the raga was conceived by Bilaskhan as a dedication to his father Tansen.

The lecdem the day before on voice culture was also quite interesting compared to the emotional tearjerkers that I've experienced in the recent past. Shriram Parasuram did a great job as the moderator. Ramanathan's short introductions and vot are also a welcome relief. Overall, great job by Carnatica.

Add Kalpakam mami's concert to the mix and it was a great weekend of music notwithstanding a bout of flu.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Nov 2007, 20:30

Even cured you of the flu, I suspect, sbala. Thanks for the post. Hope others who attended would fill us in on the rest of the fare.
Kudos to Ramanathan for making his intro and vote of thanks short, and it would have made it sweet, no doubt...

nivedita · Post by **nivedita** » 04 Nov 2007, 21:43

sbala,

Can you post a gist of what was discussed at the voice culture lec-dem? Had to miss it 'coz of college and exams.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 05 Nov 2007, 18:52

I don't like my long term memory to be put to test. Still, I will attempt to provide a summary. Advance apologies for errors and omissions and I hope Vijay can fill in as well.

Shriram Parasuram started by saying that Indian classical music is the most democratic of all classical systems of music. Here, we accept any type of voice and don't place restrictions like the opera in the west where you need a certain range to be a singer.

TVG sir explained some voice techniques that are essential for singing in high speed. He said you should not indulge in excessive movements. Vidwans of the past might have had to do that in the days of mikeless concerts but we don't need to do it now. He was talking about how the larynx should be floating and the tongue should be kept very light. (My knowledge of anatomy is worse than music. So, take the technical details with a pinch of salt). He demonstrated the right way to do akarams,ekarams etc. He also said if you can speak, you can sing. A good teacher should ensure the disciple is singing in his/her voice and not imitate the teacher. This was a common point that all the panelists made.

Next was Komakali Kalapini. She gave a brief bio of Shri Kumar Gandharv. He went through a period of 4 years when he was suffering from tuberculosis. Shriram wanted to know how he emerged from the struggle. Kalapini said KG's style after he emerged from tuberculosis was completely different from his style prior to the ailment. He was a rebel and said one need not do riyaz for hours. The idea is to be more effective in your practice by using your mind and thinking about what needs to be done. He was also against aligning to one gharana blindly. He said you have to expose yourself to different schools and pick the best from everyone. Apparently, his singing had a lot of short phrases. Kalapini mentiponed that while it was said that KG had breathing problems, you could not find it purely by listening to his singing. It's only when someone told you that, you might conclude he had such problems. She said while people sing with 2 lungs, KG's singing had the power of 10 lungs. Sriram demostrated a tarana in Sri composed by KG where he showed the transitions KG made from strong emphasis to softer passages. In their school, they practise in mandra sthayi a lot. (Kalapini sang a bandish and I was completely in awe of that voice the moment I heard it).

Next was Ashwini Bhide. Shriram remarked that her singing had such a seamless quality about it and he wanted to know how she managed it. She said voice is a personal thing and what suits one person might not suit some other one. The teacher should work with the student's voice and not the other way around. She had learnt form her mother and both their voices are very different. Her mother stressed the importance on clarity and not speed. Apparently, she used to practise taans quite fast. Her mother asked her to slow it down and focus more on clarity. Her mother said you might sing fast but remember that there is someone somewhere else practising at the very moment, who can sing faster than you. Her mother also asked her to visualise each swara as a circle with a center. The goal is to hit the bull's eye everytime. Both Ashwini and Sriram then said, hitting the bull's eye is the goal of every musician but one can never get it 100% right.

As an example of why voice techniques are a personal thing, she said she doesn't practise mandra sthayi exercises a lot as it reduced her range in the tara sthayi. So, the same exercises tend to have different effects on different students.

Shriram made a point that carnatic music does not lend itself easily to voice culture. He said that the essence of carnatic music requires you to abuse the voice.

Dr. Durga talked about her experience learning 3 different styles of carnatic music. First was under Shri MMI where the emphasis was on plain notes with little gamakams. Her second guru was Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer which focused a lot on jarus. She then learn from Ramnad Krishnan and T. Viswanathan where gamakas were predominant. She sang a brief passage from the viriboni varnam mukthayi swaram. Many schools sing mm pp dd nn as plain whereas the latter used to sing with gamakas. She said one of the reasons it is easier for Hindustani musicians to have better voice cultures is that they emphasise more on jarus whereas carnatic music has lot of Kampita gamakas.

Audience questions

1. Can we sing in different pitches or should we sing in the same pitch and if yes, is there an ideal pitch?
Ashwini said she does vary her pitches and it depends on that parituclar day and how she feels and the composition she is going to sing. Dr. Durga said that she had done some research with IIT Kanpur to determine the ideal pitch for every student based on his/her speaking voice. You can sing a semitone higher or lower but can't do it in a drastically different pitch.

2. Is there an ideal time to practise or should we practise early morning?
Everyone said unanimously that you can practise anytime. It might bring some joy to the city's BPO workers.

3. What are the dont's to protect your voice?
Travel esp by flights, speaking are some of the dont's but it is not practical. Shriram also said that carnatic musicans accept way too many concerts to maintain a healthy voice.

4. There was question to Ashwini on whether she practised any special techniques or exercises for voice culture. She said their practice was only through music and she didn't do anything specifically for the voice.

I'm not able to recall anything more. There was great music as well from all the panelists.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 05 Nov 2007, 20:31

Very interesting. Thanks for the nice summary sbala.

nivedita · Post by **nivedita** » 05 Nov 2007, 22:17

sbala, thank you very much. Your encapsulation is indeed, very nice. Really wish I'd been there!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 07 Nov 2007, 17:02

Bala has covered the event quite comprehensively. I might add that this was one of the most interesting LDs I've attended in recent times and did not degenerate into anecdotal monologues whicih happends more often than not. Although the vidwans/visooshies had not come prepared, they were quite focussed and to the point and provided excellent musical interludes...Sriram Parasuram in particular came up with some very inspiring pieces

I would have liked a longer QA session (and preferred some front-benchers to have been less obnoxious with their domination of the mike) and also some practical specifics on some tips on maintaining/improving the voice (of the do not eat cold things variety). Perhaps an ENT specialist could have been roped in as well! Sriram's point about CM requiring musicians to abuse their voice was interesting but floated away without being elaborated...

Many thanks to Carnatica for this event and do hope some more sessions can be organized during the season

ramanathan · Post by **ramanathan** » 16 Nov 2007, 11:23

On behalf of Carnatica, I just wanted to say 'Thank You' to all friends from rasikas.org who attended Bharat Sangeet Utsav and helped us pull off an event of this magnitude. Thanks especially to those of you who took pains to give us feedback! We will be having a smaller festival in December (16 - 24) at Swamy's Hall, Mandaveli featuring a host of senior artistes. Details will be put up soon on carnatica.net.

Rgds,
Ramanathan.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 16 Nov 2007, 12:32

Thanks Ramanathan - Sangeeth Utsav 2007 was a great experience for us rasikas also and I must say that the concerts during the festival always stand out - artistes ensure that they are at their best in front of such a distinguished set of organizers and the sound system is excellent. Same goes for the choice of the venue. Free entry and bru coffee do not hurt either!

I lookforward to the season program as well.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Nov 2007, 13:48

Thanks sbala and Vijay for the comments.

She said one of the reasons it is easier for Hindustani musicians to have better voice cultures is that they emphasise more on jarus whereas carnatic music has lot of Kampita gamakas.

Interesting. Can someone expand on this further? Is jary a slide and Kampita oscillation?

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 16 Nov 2007, 14:00

VK,
Please take into account a little bit of spin from my side. Basically, Ashwini sang some gamaka in hindustani style. Dr Durga then said what she sang was jarus while carnatic has Kampitas. I dont recall her explicitly saying that this contributes to better voice culture in Hindustani. That was just my conclusion. But, it would be great if someone can explain clearly what all these types of gamakas are. A separate thread would be great.

ram · Post by **ram** » 16 Nov 2007, 22:57

Thanks to the team at Carnatica for the wonderful series !!!!! Looking forward to the series featuring veterans.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Nov 2007, 23:13

vasanthakokilam wrote:Thanks sbala and Vijay for the comments.

She said one of the reasons it is easier for Hindustani musicians to have better voice cultures is that they emphasise more on jarus whereas carnatic music has lot of Kampita gamakas.
Interesting. Can someone expand on this further? Is jary a slide and Kampita oscillation?

yes jAru is slide, and kampita is oscillation.

Arun

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Nov 2007, 23:34

Tx to carnatica, I did have a chance to be there only for vijayashiva's and hariharan's concert. Certainly the sound setting was really good for both. Also last 20 minutes of Shri VVS was also very enticing, I almost forgot him for quite a few years .