Tuition charged by visiting artists

mathe-kamas · Post by **mathe-kamas** » 31 Oct 2007, 23:24

All:

This is a touchy topic. Yet, I choose to bring this up in the interest of rasikas and those who love to learn. The advent of the internet has increased the number of rasikas who learn from top artists over the internet, thus increasing the number of online classes offered all over, particularly in the USA.

My personal observation: These are great, particularly when they can be had on a regular basis.

The other side of this is also the fact that the same artists who offer long-distance classes give face-to-face lessons when they visit the continent on concert tours. This is great too!

Now comes the touchy thing. How much do these people charge? I have heard so much variation in these things, that I don't know what to believe. Recently though, I heard a story about a very eminent artist who charged someone over $160 for less than an hour long lesson. Since a lot of what I hear is third-hand report, I wanted to check on this forum to get an idea before I took that route myself.

Any info/stat on this will be useful.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Nov 2007, 02:55

A touchy subject, indeed. I see your point but there are quite a few factors that make it difficult to garner information on this.
First of all, all musicians are not created equal! Web lessons are given by musicians of all levels. Then, there are those who may not be shining stars but are excellent teachers with great credentials.
There is also the personal aspect. Most of them are reasonable and ask for a fee in proportion to their vidvat and to what they teach. Some overcharge peraps--because they are a touch greedy? Since you mention that your enquiry is mainly in the context of lessons to students in the US, I am wondering. Is it the same as in concert remuneration demands?
You may also find that the same teacher does not charge the same fee for all his (her) students in the US! How about the student's level?
Above all, how many students/their parents are willing to divulge in something as delicate as fees except when it comes to a school or workshop?
I may be wrong, but a touchy subject it is...

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 01 Nov 2007, 15:07

A different take from the world of HM: Believe it or not, Smt. Kesarbai Kerkarâ€™s talim from Ustad Alladiya Khan was bound by contractual agreement! http://www.underscorerecords.com/artist ... ?art_id=40

Whether we learn CM via Internet or one-on-one, access for the most part has been a matter of privilege and circumstance. More importantly, the commitment to learning and teaching bears scrutiny â€“ even as we contemplate whether $160-an-hour sessions are worth the time and money.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Nov 2007, 22:24

knandago,
Fascinating! The agreement recedes to the background and the monetary picture dissolves when you know that both the teacher and the pupil dedicated that many hours each day and that many years of their lives to achieve what Kesarbai did! This story should, instead of the monetary aspect, bring to focus the dedication and years of training which made her a great artiste.
'How quickly, in how many months can I perform?' won't be an oft repeated question then...

mathe-kamas · Post by **mathe-kamas** » 01 Nov 2007, 22:51

arasi and knandago,

Interesting comments. Having spent a large fraction of my life in the United States, I can say one thing that is true here, which is that people make a commitment to the art or sport they pursue, not looking for immediate returns (like in how many months can I perform?). For this, they seek the best teachers (not all, but the ones I am talking about do!). What is also true is that artists from India have realized this and want to get their share of the deal. All is fine as long as people don't get overburdened to the extent that it seems like burglar that walked into your house! The case that I heard about was where the artist insisted on giving x number of lessons for the student to continue with him/her. Student wanted it, but really had to struggle to pay the $$. On the other hand one could argue that if the $$ are high, the student would make sure that he/she did the riyaz quite seriously!

Art certainly doesn't have to be cheap or free, but it is important to make good art accessible, without overburdening the taker in terms of $$$.

musicquest · Post by **musicquest** » 04 Nov 2007, 05:14

Not sure the level of the student in question. My thoughts are what can you learn in one hour. Most teachers teach a pallavi or an anupallavi in one class and this will take one week for a diligent student to learn (if he has to get all the nuances right ) and on rare occassion if it is a small krithi they might even teach the entire krithi.

Unless you are in an extremly advanced stage the amount mentioned is ridiculous and I am sure 99% of the folks cannot afford that kind of money. I am not sure whose fault it was. The student for agreeing to pay or the teacher for demanding (if that is true). Unless the teacher sprang a suprise on the student at the end of the class!!

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 04 Nov 2007, 08:12

I think most gurus whether over the internet or in person take up teaching because they want to impart musical knowledge to students all over the world. I know several gurus who generally charge a certain amount but would go out of their way to reduce or waive the fees should a deserving student be unable to afford it.

Fees are indicative of the value we place on this unique learning experience. Compare the carnatic class fee with that for other forms of classical music in the US -- suzuki violin or what-have-you. Many an NRI parent would gladly shell out $160 an hour for the western-classical class but balk if a vidwan from India quoted a comparable amount. I think we Indians expect a degree of "simple living and high thinking" from our musicians that we wouldn't practice ourselves!

But I digress... my real point is in the first para.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Nov 2007, 08:35

Staying with your first paragraph, we could also assume that there are those gurus who teach beyond the allotted time to make sure that the student gets it all. Going back to Kesarbai's guru, though at first it seemed as if he was materialistic, we see how he nurtured her talent by endless hours and years of training. A good guru commands respect and if the student is respectful and diligent, a good guru would groom his student well...

musicquest · Post by **musicquest** » 04 Nov 2007, 08:42

I am shocked to know that NRI parents will shell out $160 for a music seesion. I am not sure if I am a poor NRI or I am out of tune with the tution fees for music. This sounds more expensive than studying in elite colleges. I would welcome more views on this.

I absolutely agree that there are many teachers in India for whom money is not criteria for teaching in fact most fall into this category.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 04 Nov 2007, 08:48

NRI parents will shell out $160 for a music seesion

Never heard this!.
$100/month is normal-includes 4-6 lessons

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 04 Nov 2007, 09:56

Suji Ram wrote:Never heard this!.
$100/month is normal-includes 4-6 lessons

1. I don't want to comment on what NRI parents do, it's irrelevant.

2. The "normal" rate $100/month is for an unknown garden variety of violin or piano teacher, NOT the most eminent concert artistes in the world of that particular musical form which is what visiting Carnatic artistes are.

3. Usually "master" classes are for advanced students learning some special pieces.

Combining equations 2 and 3 above, we conclude:

It is not excessive for an eminent Carnatic concert artistes to give advanced lessons at more than $100 an hour. For cheaper rates from eminent artistes, committed students are advised to move to India.

- QED

musicquest · Post by **musicquest** » 04 Nov 2007, 10:07

I think we Indians expect a degree of "simple living and high thinking" from our musicians that we wouldn't practice ourselves!

I thought I would stay away from replying to this, since we would be going away from the main topic, but as an afterthought I feel I should reply. I want people especially in India to know.

On my recent visit to India (Bangalore) I was shocked at the degeneration of peopleâ€™s living and thinking standards. I would be short sighted if I generalize this. As I am sure there are many Indians who epitomize simple living and high thinking. But from what I have seen in my one month stay, I could meet none I repeat none (and all my relatives are middle class) who have even a semblance of discipline that we impose on our ourselves and our kids, this is not only with the younger generation but also from their parents, again I hate to generalize but I have had a rude shock.

Also India (especially the metros) is unaffordable for most NRI's. After living in the US for nearly 10 years. I find it impossible to buy a flat in Bangalore or any of the A grade cities and after discussing with many Indians here I realize I am not alone.

I heard folks are paying a rent of Rs 40,000 a month in Bangalore, which is almost the same as the rent for an apartment in SFO which is one of the most expensive places in the US.

Lastly coming to Carnatic music, We have great respect for our musicians in fact for my family and myself, vidwans such as RKS, KVN, MDR, Semmangudi and the new artists are not only idols but they are gods. Not only are they role models for their achievements but they are perfect examples for the way they have conducted themselves, their discipline and passion in mastering this difficult art, their simplicity in not hankering after materialistic pursuits make them ideal role models for our kids and I find the same reverence for these vidwans with most kids in the US who are learning carnatic music.

It is wrong to say that we balk at Vidwans who ask for money, but we need to have a reality check to what we can afford to pay. The notion that NRIâ€™s are wealthy is outdated I feel extremely poor whenever I am in India.

srikrishna · Post by **srikrishna** » 05 Nov 2007, 22:31

I think $160/hour for a music lesson is way too expensive. From what I have paid for my child's lessons and from my experience with my other friends, it is $35-40/hour for Carnatic Vocal (intermediate level, kritis and sometimes raga alaapana and swara kalpana) from an excellent Carnatic teacher (and a performing artiste) and it is comparable with $40/hour I pay for my child's (beginners) Western Classical Violin class (with a prof. of music at a university).

I also believe that teachers would not drive students away by demanding exhorbitant fees. From what I have seen of the artistes whom I have met personally, they have been fair and understanding and have not been too demanding.

Regarding buying houses in India, I agree with the posting. They seem to be out of reach in the metros. I sometimes wonder how a common man in India would survive if he/she does not already own a house and has to pay 40,000 rupees in rent.