Swara Identification Exercises, Instrumental: Post Answers
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artist Mc?
Here is my partial analysis
Mohana- SR2G3PD2S/SDPGRS
The Sruti is at B
Most of the alapana is spanning uttaranga of middle octave and higher octave(starting at 0.13 sec onwards..). Towards the end it winds back to normal octave.
One can hear S`at 1-2 sec
Stopping points are mostly Gandharam . Hear between 0:42-48 it is all G`
You can hear R` at 53-55
P` can be heard at 0:28
Middle G can be heard 1:21-1:22
I did not give swara breakdown of phrases. Someone can attempt and I can comment.
This is easier than abhOgi
Here is my partial analysis
Mohana- SR2G3PD2S/SDPGRS
The Sruti is at B
Most of the alapana is spanning uttaranga of middle octave and higher octave(starting at 0.13 sec onwards..). Towards the end it winds back to normal octave.
One can hear S`at 1-2 sec
Stopping points are mostly Gandharam . Hear between 0:42-48 it is all G`
You can hear R` at 53-55
P` can be heard at 0:28
Middle G can be heard 1:21-1:22
I did not give swara breakdown of phrases. Someone can attempt and I can comment.
This is easier than abhOgi
Last edited by Suji Ram on 20 Sep 2007, 10:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Sample 2: My answers - I am just posting it before looking at any other answers. Hopefully I did a decent job
1. Raga: Mohanam, Structure: S R2 G3 P D2 S S D2 P G3 R2 S
2. Swaras (some exampls):
mandra da and mandra pa: briefly at 1.41 to 1:43 - i cannot decipher this fully
madya ga: 25.8s with a slight kampita
madya pa: 1.22s to 1.24s
madya da: 22.5 (first note after pause before 22.5: it goes like ds'r'g',)
tara Sa: 0.9s to 3.6s
tara ri:
(a) 23.1 (third note after pause before 22.5)
(b) also more prominently at 28s to 29s (held steady before going up to touch tara pa briefly). There is one more "similar" occurence later. Can you identify?
tara Ga: 23. 23.5s (fourth note after pause before 22.5), also more prominently 15.5s to 17.7s. There are many more.
tara pa: briefly around 1:04 (at the same time where this is a firecracker like sound )
3. First Phrase (10s)
1. Raga: Mohanam, Structure: S R2 G3 P D2 S S D2 P G3 R2 S
2. Swaras (some exampls):
mandra da and mandra pa: briefly at 1.41 to 1:43 - i cannot decipher this fully
madya ga: 25.8s with a slight kampita
madya pa: 1.22s to 1.24s
madya da: 22.5 (first note after pause before 22.5: it goes like ds'r'g',)
tara Sa: 0.9s to 3.6s
tara ri:
(a) 23.1 (third note after pause before 22.5)
(b) also more prominently at 28s to 29s (held steady before going up to touch tara pa briefly). There is one more "similar" occurence later. Can you identify?
tara Ga: 23. 23.5s (fourth note after pause before 22.5), also more prominently 15.5s to 17.7s. There are many more.
tara pa: briefly around 1:04 (at the same time where this is a firecracker like sound )
3. First Phrase (10s)
Code: Select all
g p d s' , s' s', s' s'd (p)/s' d/r'd p (d)g p
simpler form: (without those anuswaras which I could be perceiving incorrectly!)
g p d s' , s' s' s' d /s' /r' p g p
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suji - to me 28s sounds like G' the phrase between 26s to 28s seems to r~ r~ r,/g(r) where the two r~ is really R(g)r (nokku). I could be wrong though. I think at 1:04s the slide reaches higher in pitch than here (pa there, ga here.)
53-55 - yep that too for tara ri. I think there is one in later around 1:16-1:17. That was what I was referring to
53-55 - yep that too for tara ri. I think there is one in later around 1:16-1:17. That was what I was referring to
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suji - I was checking back at my posts and I see in my original answer I had thought at 28s it hit pa just like your answer. But I forgot about it and when you asked and I listened, it seemed like ga ! I listened again and I think our orginal answer may be right - Pa but probably touched more briefly than the other placesarunk wrote:suji - to me 28s sounds like G' ... I think at 1:04s the slide reaches higher in pitch than here (pa there, ga here.)
Arun
Last edited by arunk on 21 Sep 2007, 01:23, edited 1 time in total.
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This is tough - too many short notes and so I cannot tell for sure. I seem to arrive atcmlover wrote:I agree there is nokku at 1.04
also after the sustaint R I guess between 1:03 to 1:06 it is (tara)
RGRG PGS'R'P'P'
dsr'g'pg'rg' sr'g'p' g s
But this is a shaky guess. The only thing I am sure of is that it reaches pa around the time there is firecracker sound. I don't know which note has the nokku you are referring to.
Last edited by arunk on 21 Sep 2007, 01:31, edited 1 time in total.
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This is what it is - I started at 1:02 to start the phrase logicallyarunk wrote:can someone check the above 1:03 to 1:06? i.e. cmlovers vs. mine (or something else).
Arun
p d s' r' g' p' g' r' s' r' g' p' r..' s'.. (starting at 1:02) - jAru between P' and R'
p d s' r' g' p'g' r' s' d (etc etc).
-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 21 Sep 2007, 03:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Arun
It is extremely difficult to tease out the notes of short duration in fast tempo. The hand and bow move too fast and the notes do slur. My RGRG could be your PGRG since the bow moves too fast and our ears have a 'persistence of sound'. We can reliably analyze only the slow notes!By slowing it down 4 times I noticed there are close to 20 notes in that region some are too fleeting. Also the recording is not that good to distinguish the sounds
It is extremely difficult to tease out the notes of short duration in fast tempo. The hand and bow move too fast and the notes do slur. My RGRG could be your PGRG since the bow moves too fast and our ears have a 'persistence of sound'. We can reliably analyze only the slow notes!By slowing it down 4 times I noticed there are close to 20 notes in that region some are too fleeting. Also the recording is not that good to distinguish the sounds
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Caught up with work.... Let me just say that Sharmaji was accurate:it is TNK, the rAgam is mOhanam... and cml sir, the vocalist is MMI, and yes, a prelude to evarura... Concert is MA 1964...
Last edited by ninjathegreat on 21 Sep 2007, 09:36, edited 1 time in total.
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I am posting this without looking at the answers. After this I will read up and learn. I gave up after a while to decode the swaras since the instrumental piece was a bit fast paced. After several tries to follow along on my flute, I decided to follow another tactic. Internalize the alapana as much as possible and then use that as an inspiration for my own playing without trying to follow note by note. I am enclosing two such attempts. The first one is a bit of a noisy recording ( sorry ).
http://rapidshare.com/files/59202524/In ... s.zip.html
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4fgclb ( alternate download location since bilahari could not download from rapidshare )
Definitely, the alapana is mono-themed..
Submitting so I can get your feedback.
http://rapidshare.com/files/59202524/In ... s.zip.html
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4fgclb ( alternate download location since bilahari could not download from rapidshare )
Definitely, the alapana is mono-themed..
Submitting so I can get your feedback.
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VK, I'd really like to listen to your rendition, but rapidshare doesn't agree with my connection. Could you please upload it in alternative site?
Sorry I haven't taken part in a lot of the swara exercises, but I just had my tonsils removed, and have been in a lot of pain for some time now. I thought the Abhogi was a lot more difficult than this one. I just tried to decode the 1.5 minute alapanai into swaras, and it took me one whole hour! I'll post my answers in a few hours, but surveying those given here, even my first phrase doesn't seem right! I have the starting as s r g p,,, d d d d,,, d, d, d d, d d S , , d p,, p, g,, p d,,,, from the first to the seventh second...
Thanks for this practice clip! It has been extremely challenging... I did realise quite early that it was TNK because of his characteristic phrases that I can demonstrate better with examples. He loves playing phrases like in 1.20 to 1.24, with dp dp dp d S,,,, d, p, ,,, gr gr gr gr g p,,,, g r,,,, . Sort of these short doublets followed by a long slide to the next note in ascension. It has a great effect.
OK, more later, I must presently writhe in pain.
Sorry I haven't taken part in a lot of the swara exercises, but I just had my tonsils removed, and have been in a lot of pain for some time now. I thought the Abhogi was a lot more difficult than this one. I just tried to decode the 1.5 minute alapanai into swaras, and it took me one whole hour! I'll post my answers in a few hours, but surveying those given here, even my first phrase doesn't seem right! I have the starting as s r g p,,, d d d d,,, d, d, d d, d d S , , d p,, p, g,, p d,,,, from the first to the seventh second...
Thanks for this practice clip! It has been extremely challenging... I did realise quite early that it was TNK because of his characteristic phrases that I can demonstrate better with examples. He loves playing phrases like in 1.20 to 1.24, with dp dp dp d S,,,, d, p, ,,, gr gr gr gr g p,,,, g r,,,, . Sort of these short doublets followed by a long slide to the next note in ascension. It has a great effect.
OK, more later, I must presently writhe in pain.
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VK
Finally you have come out! I could hear mohanam with my eyes closed (not ears, of course The kaarvai's are just great ! Actually your pieces can be used as our decoding exercise (if you agree) since you already know each note you played. We can await the concurrence from our quiz master! Then we should be able to give detailed comments. In short the manodharma is intrinsic and very nice. You just need practice!
May I venture and award the title sharadkOkilam (appropriate for this season) if our queen will condescend to confirm
Finally you have come out! I could hear mohanam with my eyes closed (not ears, of course The kaarvai's are just great ! Actually your pieces can be used as our decoding exercise (if you agree) since you already know each note you played. We can await the concurrence from our quiz master! Then we should be able to give detailed comments. In short the manodharma is intrinsic and very nice. You just need practice!
May I venture and award the title sharadkOkilam (appropriate for this season) if our queen will condescend to confirm
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Thank you all. The only thing I can guarantee you is my piece is like no other piece out there note for note..
CML, I am only too glad you heard Mohanam there!! I mentioned that TNK's piece is the inspiration. That may be overstating it since that can mean some abstract things. May be the appropriate word is 'model' or 'base'. The overall structure is borrowed from that piece and since I could not completely replicate it, I took the liberty to go on my own but still in that mould. When I listened to the recording myself, it does not sound like a typical flute alapana, it sounded like someone playing it in the Violin style :LOL: That itself is worth thinking thru for me.
Regarding using it for decoding, I am perfectly fine with it if you all consider it is worthy of such analysis. For answers, I do not have the swaras written down, I will have to decode them myself but hopefully I can do it with less difficulty but not necessarily 100% accurately. So, I would not be the ultimate judge, it still has to go by consensus.
Bilahari: Best wishes for a fast recovery. I have uploaded it to sendspace and updated my post with the sendspace link.
CML, I am only too glad you heard Mohanam there!! I mentioned that TNK's piece is the inspiration. That may be overstating it since that can mean some abstract things. May be the appropriate word is 'model' or 'base'. The overall structure is borrowed from that piece and since I could not completely replicate it, I took the liberty to go on my own but still in that mould. When I listened to the recording myself, it does not sound like a typical flute alapana, it sounded like someone playing it in the Violin style :LOL: That itself is worth thinking thru for me.
Regarding using it for decoding, I am perfectly fine with it if you all consider it is worthy of such analysis. For answers, I do not have the swaras written down, I will have to decode them myself but hopefully I can do it with less difficulty but not necessarily 100% accurately. So, I would not be the ultimate judge, it still has to go by consensus.
Bilahari: Best wishes for a fast recovery. I have uploaded it to sendspace and updated my post with the sendspace link.
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Arasi and VK, Thanks for your good wishes for what is turning out to be a frustratingly slow recovery...
VK, You certainly do deserve the artiste's attribution! Your Mohanam was crystal clear, with some very melodious phrases we must dissect. I could hear some TNK phrases there, which were well woven into your own alapnai, with a noticeable pidi in the second one (either p g,, r,,, (s) or d p g,, r,,, ?). At 1.25, your momentary dwelling in the higher octave (panchamam?) was very evocative. The only thing that didn't quite strike a chord with me was the speed of oscillations towards the end, which was a bit slow. But the tone of your playing is consistent, and your swaras fall at their right places, and I think you've been rather severely downplaying your music-making abilities!
VK, You certainly do deserve the artiste's attribution! Your Mohanam was crystal clear, with some very melodious phrases we must dissect. I could hear some TNK phrases there, which were well woven into your own alapnai, with a noticeable pidi in the second one (either p g,, r,,, (s) or d p g,, r,,, ?). At 1.25, your momentary dwelling in the higher octave (panchamam?) was very evocative. The only thing that didn't quite strike a chord with me was the speed of oscillations towards the end, which was a bit slow. But the tone of your playing is consistent, and your swaras fall at their right places, and I think you've been rather severely downplaying your music-making abilities!
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Bilahari, thanks and you are very kind. And with good insightful comments in spite of the pain!! You do have a point about the oscillation at the end. Though I personally like that sound sequence, that may not go with acceptable Mohanam gamakam. That ending sounded like some bit from a hindi film song but I can not pin point it now. That is some great feedback, thanks Bilahari.
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I corrected my typo in my answer which I had originally on paper!
Still differs from bilahari though.
This sample is interesting. Our mind is so tuned to the familiar mukhtayi-making it hard to accept something different. Only when I got the tune memorized that I could decipher it.
Still differs from bilahari though.
This sample is interesting. Our mind is so tuned to the familiar mukhtayi-making it hard to accept something different. Only when I got the tune memorized that I could decipher it.
Last edited by Suji Ram on 02 Oct 2007, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.
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I was wondering what everyone was talking about untill I heard the clip
This is from the mOhana varNa, sligtly different from what I have leant;
g, rg | rs r, | sr sg | rg sr | sdsr |gr gp | gp d, | p, -> my version
g, rg | rs r, | rs. sg | rg sr |ssdr | gr gp |gp d, | p, -> violin track #6
This is from the mOhana varNa, sligtly different from what I have leant;
g, rg | rs r, | sr sg | rg sr | sdsr |gr gp | gp d, | p, -> my version
g, rg | rs r, | rs. sg | rg sr |ssdr | gr gp |gp d, | p, -> violin track #6
Last edited by ramakriya on 02 Oct 2007, 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Nicely represented!ramakriya wrote:I was wondering what everyone was talking about untill I heard the clip
This is from the mOhana varNa, sligtly different from what I have leant;
g, rg | rs r, | sr sg | rg sr | sdsr |gr gp | gp d, | p, -> my version
g, rg | rs r, | rs. sg | rg sr |ssdr | gr gp |gp d, | p, -> violin track #6
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No point in waiting any more!
arun is quite right
and suji too !
(suddenly my joints hurt is gone
and of course ramakriya has nicely formatted the solution. I took the violin recital of a 'famous' (solid shruti) vidvaan and doctored the notes.
Congratulations on your keen hearing, sense of svarasthanas and sense of recall!
Note that it is mantra dhaivatam as arun ha correctly notated.
Congratulations to one and all of you!
(would you have gotten it if it was in the durita kaalam ?)
arun is quite right
and suji too !
(suddenly my joints hurt is gone
and of course ramakriya has nicely formatted the solution. I took the violin recital of a 'famous' (solid shruti) vidvaan and doctored the notes.
Congratulations on your keen hearing, sense of svarasthanas and sense of recall!
Note that it is mantra dhaivatam as arun ha correctly notated.
Congratulations to one and all of you!
(would you have gotten it if it was in the durita kaalam ?)
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