Dr. Shrikaanth K Murthy

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Feb 2006, 05:50

CML
thanks for the link. I could make out karpagAmbAL clearly. The second one appears like somebody is worshipping the linga. Is the third one subrahmaNya? There appears to be the vElAyudha in the deity`s hand. Please let us know if you are any wiser.

meena · Post by **meena** » 23 Feb 2006, 06:03

DRS

listen to an audio clip of Akhilandeswari-Karnataka Kapi-of Sreee SS rendered by BMK @

deleted

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Feb 2006, 06:27

Thanks Meena. This version is indeed significantly different from venkaTAcalapatE. No shades of kAnaDa here. Only a strong darbAru flavour to kharaharapriya.

meena · Post by **meena** » 23 Feb 2006, 06:44

DRS

on raga Durbar newsletter:
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"Raga Karnataka Kapi has three versions. Syama Sastri?s "Akhilandeshwari" has positive nuances of raga Durbar. Dikshitar?s Karnataka Kapi is more Kanada-oriented, which is also noticeable in his compositions in raga Durbar."

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 06:49

The second does look like karpagaambaL in the form of 'mayil' worshipping kApAli. The final one may be subrahmanya (vEl is visible). too bad they have not given any titles!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 06:58

Thanks meena
Excellent reference!

DRS
That figures why kaanada is reflected in KJY. Incidentally could you explain the subtle relationship of Hindustan Kapi tp pIlu!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 07:00

To me BMK sounds closer to nAyaki than darbar!

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 23 Feb 2006, 07:02

its interesting that Tyagaraja's kriti "Nitya roopa" has two versions... Durbar and Kaapi
http://www.karnatik.com/c2670.shtml
TRS mentioned this in a lecdem in December 2005 and said "Kaapi-kkum Durbar-kkum sammandame ellai..adhu epdi vandudunnu theriyalai"

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Feb 2006, 08:07

Notation for kApAli.

http://rapidshare.de/files/13915039/kAp ... h.pdf.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 10:24

Thanks!

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 23 Feb 2006, 17:49

The first picture is very much Sri Karpagambal. The second picture is Karpagambal worshipping Sri Kapalishwarar. This denotes the stalapuranam. The third picture is the divine couple, Sri Karpagambal sametha Sri Kapalishwarar. Swami is holding a sceptre in his right hand while the left hand rests on his thigh, looking very majestic. Ambal is seated next to him on the left side, "Shiva Vamabhaga Nilayam". She can be seen if carefully observed.

If I'm not mistaken, these are pictures taken during the annual Panguni Brahmotsavam because the alankaram of Ambal worshipping Swami in the form of a peahen can be seen only on the first day of the utsavam.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Feb 2006, 20:04

Here is a charaNam from the suruttI thillAnA of the late Sri Madurai Krishnan:

mA mayilaiyil mA thavan sheidha mA mayil thAyE
umA mahEshan manam magirzhndhavaLE, mADHavanin sOdhariyE
gAnam ishaiththa kayilai nATHan karuththil ninra karpagamE
kANbavar manam kanindhidumE, un thiru malar porpadhamE

A very lilting description of the First Lady of Mylapore, and sums what I feel everytime I visit the temple!
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 20:33

Thanks very much darshan!
Could you briefly outline the sthalapuraaNaM?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Feb 2006, 20:54

CML,
Here is what I heard from my grandmother:
pArvati (to atone for her life as dAkshAyanI?), comes to earth as a pea-hen (mayil) and performs penance: the lingam she worshipped is supposed to have been made of sand (and thus the abundance of sand in the outer prAkAram of the temple in the days of yore - did not see much of it in recent visits). The lord, pleased with her devotion, grants her wish to be reunited with her and married her. The vasantha uthsavam and the teppam are a celebration of the divine honeymoon!
Krishnan alludes to this beautifully in the charaNam I posted earlier.
The legend of Mylapore is very similar to the legend of mayilAduthurai: but there, if I remember correctly, the lord appears as a peacock, and the courtship dance of the peacock and the pea-hen is called the 'gowrI thAndavam'.
Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Feb 2006, 21:01

CML/DRS,
In Adal kANIrO, (written by Kannadasan?, set to music by G. Ramanathan, rendered by the 'honey-toned' MLV, and embellished by Padmini's dancing), several lIlAs (or viLaiyAdals) of the Lord are described. The first charaNam deals with the 'pittukku maN shumandha' episode...CML can you explain the others alluded to in the second charaNam?
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/26/s/singer.147/

Is this in chArukEsi?

Here are the lyrics: the ? marks are where I am not sure of the words/phrase.

Adal kANIrO, thiruviLaiyAdal kANIrO
pAdal madhuraiyil rAja soundhirapAndiyanAm
yengaL ANdavan thiruviLaiyAdal kANIrO

UthuperukkAle punai (?) kUttum (?) vaigai yennum AttRuveLLAm thadukkavE
vIttukkOrAL thandhu vEndhanin ANai thannai
yEtru vinai mudikkavE
piLLai pErkadayAdha (?) amudhum (?) vanjiyin kUli ALAi
pittukkku maN shumakkavE
vandhu piththanai pOlE kai pirambAlE patta adi
pEshidum sakala jIva rashigal mudhugilum pattu vazhuvuttra
Ishan viLaiyAdal kANIrO

nari thanai pari yAkki pari thanai nari yAkki
nAraikku mukthi koduththu
uyar nAl vEdha poruL sholli
nAgaththaiyum vadhaiththu
nakIrar pugazh Endhittu
vara guNa pAndiyarkku shivalOkam kAtti
valai vIshi mIn pidiththu
vAy thiravAdha kali yAnnaikku karumbUtti
vaira vaLai, muththu vaLai, rathna vaLai, vittRa
viLaiyAdal kANIrO

Thanks.
Ravi

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 23 Feb 2006, 21:40

Rshankar, thanks for the posting of the sthalapuranam. That's very much what even I am aware of.

Supposedly, the original temple existed very near the seashore, around the San Thome area. But due to floods or sea storm or something like that, it was nearly washed away. With the remains of the old temple, a new temple was constructed much away from the sea, which is supposedly the present structure.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 21:48

Thanks shankar!
Yes it is lovely cArukEsi and the dance of padmini is just superb!

just some corrections
...
piLLaippER kidayaatha oru vanthiyin kUli ALaay
(vanthi = one who has no children (piLLaippER kidayaatha)
....
vAy thiravAdha kal yAnnaikku karumbUtti (stone elephant)

Each of those lines in the second para of charanam is one thiruviLayadal which tells the story succinctly (marvellous KaNNadAsan one-liners!). There are 64 of them. Let us not go into those details and then it will be another thiruviLayaadal puraaNaM

(in Tamil it is a standard expression meaning a long and winding story!)

Thanks for that sthalapuranam of mayilai kApAli!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 21:49

darshan

In other words there was a TsuNami in the historical past!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Feb 2006, 22:06

The shift of the temple had nothing to do with natural calamities. Lets face facts here. The original temple stood where the Santhome cathedral now stands. The Portugese destroyed it in the 1500`S and built the cathedral in its place. There are still inscriptions of the chola period in the church that refer to kapAlISvara temple.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 23:08

For that matter there are very few mosques (churches too eh?) which were not originally temples of Hindu Gods!
(Of course I am not referring to those magnificent mosques that are being built currently on the west coasts (keraLa) with Saudi help!)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Feb 2006, 23:12

Thanks meena
Excellent reference!

DRS
That figures why kaanada is reflected in KJY. Incidentally could you explain the subtle relationship of Hindustan Kapi tp pIlu!

All versions of venkaTAcalapatE I have heard have had kAnaDA flavour only(like vIrahanmatE). But just a bit wary of KJY as he is notorious for singing kRtis(of trinity as well) in rAgas that suit his whim.

pIlu is quite similar to our kApi. There are sone differences such as SND1P, particularly in mandra sthAyi which occur in pIlu but not in our kApi. G2 is also more highlighted in pIlu. Can anyone throw more light on pIlu please?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2006, 23:14

DRS/Shankar

I couldn't resist!
http://rapidshare.de/files/13958803/Virutttam.mp3.html
I have also restored the pancamam and nishadam in exchange for your rishabham and madhyamam

Of course you wouldn't mind the exchange of antara gandhaam for the sadharaNa

I have corrected the first line as
mA mayilaiyil mA thava*m* sheidha mA mayil thAyE

Excuse the impudence

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Feb 2006, 23:37

CML,
thavan...was a typo: it is thavam..when I get a chance, I will post a version of the thillAnA sung by MLV to Krishnaveni Lakshmanan's dance/choroegraphy...I only have the audio track to share.
Ravi

meena · Post by **meena** » 24 Feb 2006, 00:41

drshrikaanth wrote

Can anyone throw more light on pIlu please?

rag piloo/pilu - thaat Kafi scale -N S g m P N S' S' n D P d P g S

Shivkumar Sharma (sorry just a sample)

BGAK:

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2006, 01:28

Shiv Kumar Sharma complete available at
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/Bqf ... As1NMvHdW/

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 24 Feb 2006, 01:37

Thanks Meena & CML. But RShabha is definitely present. BGAK too sings it in his brief swaras although it is not clear. In fact "G*,R*N,D2-G,RN#S-G;," seems characteristic of pIlU.

meena · Post by **meena** » 24 Feb 2006, 02:16

as posted on
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this is the scale for rag pilu:

'N S G m P 'n D P S'
S' N d P d P m g R S 'N S

note:
Pilu is believed to have originated from the Thaat Kafi but many muscicologist designate this to be a secondary or Mishra Raga because its nature appears to be a blend of Ragas Bhairavi, Bhimpalasi & Gauri

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Feb 2006, 15:05

Piloo ..
The Holi Festival is nearing and no wonder piloo is being talked about

To Start with here are a few
1) in dhrupad by lalith J rao
http://rapidshare.de/files/14006382/Lal ... o.mp3.html

2) two short ones by abdul karim khan and indubala
(thanks to Rajan parikkar's site)

http://rapidshare.de/files/14006927/Abd ... o.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/14007062/Ind ... o.mp3.html

three great Film melodies

http://rapidshare.de/files/14007240/01- ... e.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/14007330/06- ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/14007445/13J ... n.mp3.html

Rarely appears in a HM concert in its purest form.mostly in the Misra versions.
However I can pull out a few more pure ones.

renderings by Bale Khan ,vilayath khan on the Sitar , and also a majestic rendering by nazakath Salamath ali khan at a chamber music concert in Kabul. and finally a very very sweet 40 minute rendering by niladri kumar on the sitar.

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 24 Feb 2006, 16:24

I know for sure that Jagadodharana is rendered in Kaapi. But once the announcer in AIR informed that Dr S Balachander will play this song in Piloo. There was no difference except that the artist played it in madhyama-sruti! By the way, why should some use madhyama-sruti for some specific ragas - Is it because the raag flares up like a light? Sindhu Bhairavi, Subhapantuvarali are some of ragas that are played in madhyama-sruti. Can anyone enlighten me?

Kaumaaram

sriucl · Post by **sriucl** » 24 Feb 2006, 17:51

I dont know of Subhapanthuvarali sung in M-sruthi.

I think it is just that the ragas are given a different shape when sung in M-sruthi. Totally for an ecstasy in bhaavam I suppose.

1. the limited range of octaves, esp. that thukkudas have.
2. useful for last fvew pieces for concert planning sake.

But take the example of Nadanamakriya ... uses a similar scale of Mayamalavagowla..

Yaman Kalyani can also be sung in the usual P-Sruthi, because of widely sung Kalyani and to avoid Kalyani again, uses the M1 and M2 and hence a new raga is seen in M-sruthi.

Manirangu , which some people sing in M-sruthi, is equally good in P-sruthi. When that raga is used for Thukkadas esp, M-sruthi is applied...a reason also for a concert planning.

Kurunji - Shankarabaram
Navaroz - -do-

Chenjurutti, Punnagavarali ..

I think by convention, some of these have been so synonymous with M-sruthi, that when attempted [ just for curiousity] in P-sruthi - may not even be recognized as it may sound like some other Janya ragas of that melakartha.

Contrastingly, if one tries to sing Jambupathe of MD in M-sruthi, will be too difficult , because of higher notes . But Krishna nee begane, Vidhi Chakrathulu - are usually sung in 'M'. - all Yamuna Kalyani.

But on thing .. when attemped to sing in 'M', the raga should not be a moorchchanakkara , as that would give another raga. In these examples, I guess there is not such a case.

Once, I happened to listen to L.Shankar in the USA, when he introduced a new raga called 'Lakshminarayana' with the same notes as in Hindolam, but

Aro : S G M D N S ; Ava: S N D P MG S .... for some time during raga alapana, it was all Manirangu..thats what a person who enters the concert at that time will think - just because this scale with Aadhara Madhyamam was Manirangu..I asked him abt that..but replied that he has not noticed that.. Anybody else can try that and correct me if wrong...

Sorry abt the long notes.... Experts may add and correct ....

Srivathsan
.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2006, 21:01

I was right! If the mention of piloo does not bring cooloo karni scurrying nothing else could

Also piloo without AKK is empty! Thanks for the extra movie crumbs. Pl post vilayath khan and nsak and whatever else that YOU enjoyed!

DRS
Now that we have akhilandesvari rendered by BMK I am no wiser regarding the relationship between H and K kapi. But piloo is vibrant and appears to be driving H kapi!

Dear Srivathsan

Is a recording available! LS is a genius!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 24 Feb 2006, 23:20

Next kRti in gaurivELAvaLi

http://rapidshare.de/files/14039058/pAl ... h.wma.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 24 Feb 2006, 23:27

coolkarni
thanks for the clippings of pIlu and also akhilANDESari.

kaumaaram
jagadOddhArana as it is sung today was tuned by biDAram kRShNappa. It is not in the regular H.kApi but in dhanakApi. This is clearly mentioned by B.Subbarao in his magnum opus Raganidhi.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Feb 2006, 02:36

Before CML asks, here the lyric

rAga- gaurIvELAvaLi, AditALa.

pAlana paNNa idE gauri vELa |
vaLi kANAdikkara bhaktALa ||P||

nI lAlipiyAdE indAka |
nindipiyaradunnaye kaNA jOka ||AP||

Ayaru pErunkOdO AmA |
aLacAkO kuDaradu vANAmA |
chIya^NDAkunna vuDaNAmA |
SrIkAnta hitE bhale unde mahima ||C||

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 25 Feb 2006, 03:00

DRS
Is this in kannada? U have to tell me the meaning and context as usual. Iam already lost. That was a nice Gowri manohari though...
Kiran

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2006, 04:22

DRS
shollaamal seivOr periyOr!
I have listened to it before you posted the lyric and was quizzing whether it was sankEti..
Very clearly gowrimanohari is heard and the aalaapana is just beautiful! You have to enlighten us about the subtle differences between gowri velavali and gowrimanOhari. Now before I get some naughty thoughts about the 'kAN*N*adikkara bhaktALa ' you have to post the word for word meanings

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Feb 2006, 04:56

CML
The kRti is in sankEti indeed. I was pained when Kiran appreciated my "gaurimanOhari", despite me clearly mentioning the rAga and the scale and singing swaras. =(
Hope the singing was not that bad!

word for word meaning first.

pAlana- protection/looking after/caring; paNNa- to do; idE- this is verily;
vELa- time/right time;
vaLi- path/light; kANAde ikkara- being unable to see; bhaktALa- Those bhaktas.

nI- You; lAlipiyAdE- without nurtueing/caring/listening ;indAka- If you are;
nindipiyaradu- ridiculing/ mocking; unnaye- You only;
kaNA- This is a form of addressing(especialy women);
jOka- Beware!/Take care( A form of warning someone to be on their guard).

Ayaru- thousand; pEru- name; unku- to you; OdO- what; AmA- indeed
aLacAka- when called/addressed; O kuDaradu- responding/replying;
vANAmA- Ought you not to?
chI- a expletive of disgust/ anger etc; a^NDAka- if You say; unna- you;
vuDaNAmA- will we let go of You?;
SrIkAnta hitE- You Who is helpful/good to SrIkAnta; bhale- Good! (shabhash, bhale);
unde mahima- your greatness.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 25 Feb 2006, 04:58

DRS,
gowrivelavali sounds like salagabhairavi at times?? especially the SRMP phrase

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Feb 2006, 05:02

Running meaning.

O gauri! This is indeed the right time for you to protect those devotees that are groping blindly, unable to see light and their path.

Be warned! If you do not listen and sit quietly without caring for your devotees now, it is You Who will be mocked at by everyone.

It may be true that you have a thousand names. But what is the point? Can you not respond when you are called! Do yo think we will let go of You if you turn your nose up in disgust at us? Great you are indeed!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2006, 07:08

DRS

Gowrivelavali is MD's variant of Gowrimanohari and it has to sound close! You have done a marvellous job since I have not heard this raga before. My introduction to gowri manohari was primarily gurlulEka but more due to that blockbuster of TMS 'pATTum naanE'. Of course I have heard kaumari but till now I never paid close attention to the distinction. Your swaraprastaram distinctly brings out the difference. The SRMP,MPMGR talks!
Lovely nindAstuti!

Of course the standing request for notations!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Feb 2006, 07:27

Coolkarni
Do post the other pIlU renderings. We will relish them although discussion has moved forward.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Feb 2006, 08:37

Some recordings of MD`s kaumArI gauRivELAvaLi

O.S.Tyagarajan

http://rapidshare.de/files/14072630/kau ... I.mp3.html

Heavenly vINe playing by Chitti Babu.( still only gaurimanOhari in uttarAnga)

http://www.kannadaaudio.com/Songs/Instr ... hithar.ram

The inimitable BMK(But this is only gaurimanOhari not vELAvaLi =(

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/sJy ... As1NMvHdW/

Does coolkarni/anyone have other recordings of kaumArI?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Feb 2006, 11:07

DRS.will upload the piloo stuff.
here is a slight but interesting detour on Gowrimanohari
will also search out kaumari...

http://rapidshare.de/files/14077846/16- ... i.mp3.html

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 25 Feb 2006, 12:45

DRS

Gowrivelavali is MD's variant of Gowrimanohari and it has to sound close! You have done a marvellous job since I have not heard this raga before. My introduction to gowri manohari was primarily gurlulEka but more due to that blockbuster of TMS 'pATTum naanE'.

Yet another film piece is Gowri Manohariyay Kanden (sung by spb and vj - tuned by msv).

DRS:

Many thanks for providing me the information about Jagadodharana.

There is another song in Gowri Manohari - Garuda Gamana Vasudeva.... I heard KJY singing it... whose composition is that?

Kaumaaram

meena · Post by **meena** » 25 Feb 2006, 13:03

kaumaaram wrote:

There is another song in Gowri Manohari - Garuda Gamana Vasudeva.... I heard KJY singing it... whose composition is that?

its T comp. -u did not google, did u???

:(

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2006, 20:27

Thanks coolkarni for sneaking in GS Mani! How could I have forgotten K.R. Ramaswamy's 'neethan allaamal'. But somehow it sounds sweeter as rendered by GS Mani!

I agree SPB has done it too but he could not avoid cArukesi chaayai

Folks
Gowrimanohar is aplenty! We need gowrivelavali! If not I will have to declare the sole winner of the clear exposition of this lovely raga is DRS! His kalpanaswaram though short is still rattling inside my brain!

Does anybody have parAshakti Ishvari of MD?

DRS

Pl explain the speciality of this raga as also the fine points in the composition!

sriucl · Post by **sriucl** » 25 Feb 2006, 21:30

CMlover,

[[I agree SPB has done it too but he could not avoid cArukesi chaayai

]]

I havent heard that song...any links....

I guess that Charukesi Chayai could be due to the fact that Gowri Manohari with M as the beginning brings Charukesi...as a moorchchanakara... I am also reminded of a similar song..in Dr.Siva --'Malare Kurunji Malare' beginning like Charukesi but is fully Gowrimanohari....

Srivathsan

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Feb 2006, 22:16

CML,
Not to keep harping on GM, but one of the sweetest GMs I have heard (GS Mani declares it to be the raga of proclamation!) is by Nityashree: an OVK comp: pazhamO pazhamO pazham (Bavam enum vandu thuLaikkAdha pazham)...OVK's tribute to the BAgavatham...unfortunately commercial...

And I love 'gowrimanOhariyai kandEn oru Adavan vadivaththilE' (of course I have always wondered about that..especially with all the recent Oscar buzz about Felicity Huffman's role!)
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2006, 22:43

Srivathsan
The song is
http://rapidshare.de/files/14115949/Gow ... n.mp3.html
In fact it is mainly Vani Jayaram. Thanks for the clue on sruti bhedam! But note that it is Pancamam that will lead to cArukEsi; the Madhymam will take you to vacaspati. I would love to hear somebody demonstrate (I would if I were 30 years younger

Where is TNS

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2006, 22:47

Thanks Shankar
Could you send the nityashree to me [email protected]
I love OVK renditions!