Balamuralikrishna

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 26 Oct 2005, 10:52

I have been rummaging through a huge colection of AIR Recordings - SRKris's- obtained
through a common friend and I discovered a very unusual AIR Broadcast.
Balmurali has transalted Tyagaraja Kritis to tamil and sung it.If I remember right , about a year ago
Neyveli Santhanagopalan did something similar in a concert , but I have not heard about such experiments any more.

Anyway here is this track

http://rapidshare.de/files/6770105/Balm ... _Tamil.mp3

One must give it to this artist.Though he brings out extreme reactions from fans and foes alike , I think we should discuss his
renderings, contributions in more depth.

CML and any others ,, were you around in the audience when he first exploded on the scene .Going by his vintage recordings
especially with MSG-TVG , they must have been fantastic concerts !!!

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 26 Oct 2005, 11:35

Not only has he sung them in Tamil, but also does a fair job of it, not translation for the sake of translation. When I listened to it, I thought he deserves some credit for the work.

param · Post by **param** » 10 Nov 2005, 15:17

Coolkarni,

I agree with you. The rendition of Tyagaraja kritis in translated tamil is really mind blowing. My father and I feel this has to be the work of Dr.BMK's wifie Smt. Abhayambika - who is a master on Tamil literature and language.

Definitely worth an applaud.

We are writing to Dr. BMK under a separate letter expressing our greetings on this approach and mentioning that we look forth to many more......

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:21

When it comes to kritis in Telugu there is no one to match Dr.BalaMurali krishna although he is more into 'shringara' mode than 'Bhakthi' mode while singing.

K.R.NagaSundaram

venkmal · Post by **venkmal** » 13 Dec 2005, 11:10

Really very nice. thx for this treat. venkmal

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 21 Jan 2006, 13:37

Just when i started to think that I have seen all of BMK's tricks, here comes another.
HE HAS SUNG A DASAR PADA AFTER TRANSLATING IT TO TELUGU.
Boy.We must give it to him.

http://rapidshare.de/files/11475319/10_ ... u.mp3.html

and the original is here.
http://rapidshare.de/files/11475510/166 ... 5.mp3.html

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 18 Feb 2006, 01:19

I think that this forum has some bias against the Musical Genius that BMK is!
I,for one, has been an ardent admirer of his music for the last four decades, ever since I first heard him in Chembur Fine Arts,Mumbai, way back in 1964.Our whole family,my dad and four brothers were simply blown away by the mesmerising music of BMK.We found him to be highly innovative and creative in his manodharma singing.Added to his magnetic and melodious voice,capable of traversing all the three octaves effortlessly,his clear diction of the krithis, his precise mathematical permutations of the swara prastharams, and bhava filled rendering of the krithis,made us all enter a new dimension in the realm of CM.
Then we ,my brother Ananth and I, who were running a music sabha in Chembur called "Rasikapriya", had the honour of hosting his concert in our small sabha at a small token fee, and were really touched by his generosity.In this concert at our sabha, he sang an elaborate "Rasikapriya", the 72nd and last melakarta and his own composition ,"pavana thanaya palayamam", an invocation to Lord Hanuman.Our saba was also named Rasikapriya after the last melakarta.Ever since then, we have been huge fans of DR.BMK's music and hold him on a very high pedestal, much above his contemporaries.Then when I delved deep into his biography, I came to understand that he was also a "Vaggeyakara", who was one of the handful of composers who had composed krithis in all 72 melakartas.To my knowledge only a handful of composers have attempted this extraordinary feat, including the late Koteeswaraiyer.Our admiration for BMK's genius grew by leaps and bounds at all his innovations in CM.He also exploded on the CM scene at the young age of 7 when he started giving concerts.As he grew and exhibited his musical genius, the entire traditional world of CM was swept by a storm of creativity and innovation and BMK has definitely carved a niche for himself in the Hall of Fame of Carnatic Greats.
And though he was involved in many controversies, like creation ragas with four and five notes, which could not be digested by his contemporaries, he still went ahead with his innovations and swept away the cobwebs of stagnation in CM.
His talents could not be ignored by the die-hard coterie holding sway over the Tamilnadu CM scene and they were forced to pay obeisance to his musical genius.Awards and Titles followed in profusion including Padmavibhusan,Sangeeta Kalanidhi, and the latest French Govt.Chevalier Title,which, to my knowledge,only the Late Sivaji Ganesan,was bestowed in India.
Another dimension of his musical genius was revealed some years back, when BMK ventured on the science of "MUsical Therapy",to ensure good health and cure of diseases through Carnatic Ragas.Indeed there seems to be no limit to his talent and genius.He even had a shot at film singing, and who can forget his great "Oru Naal Podhuma" from "Thiruvilayadal" which swept the whole nation by it's magical quality.
An even lesser known facet of his talent is the fact that in addition to his mesmerising singing, he can also play with authority many musical instruments: violin,viola and the mridhangam.In fact, he gave a full Viola Concert in our sabha Rasikapriya, way back in the 1970's.
Over the years, he has built a legion of fans who swear by his music and consider him to be the God of Music.
Even the Tamilnadu Chief Minister, Jayalalitha, an ardent fan of his music, praised his contribution to CM, and awarded the title of "Sangeeta Samrat" at last year's felicitation function to honour him on his 75th birthday, and she appropriately told the audience that her regret was that she could not learn CM from the Maestro BMK, and expressed the desire that if she were to be reborn, in her next birth, she could become his disciple.She ended her encomium of BMK's genius by posing the question to the audience, "ORU NAAL PODHUMA" for listening to his enthralling Music.
Long Live Balamurali and His Music.

Sivaraman.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Feb 2006, 11:11

I think that this forum has some bias against the Musical Genius that BMK is!

Sivaramanji, I am sure you will find lot of people in this forum who love BMK. So, it may not be a forum wide bias. As for me, I am with you about your descriptions on his contributions to CM, his longevity on the concert platform. And I love his Oru nAL poduma and Chinna kannan AzaikkirAn etc. I am sure over the years I have enjoyed a few of his other songs as well. Beyond that, as I wrote in another thread, I can hear all his greatness in individual elements but when put together as a whole, it does not do much for me. As a prototypical case, consider the renditions of Brahma Kadikina by Nedunoori and BMK. As an ardent fan of Mukhari, Nedunoori's touches right stuff inside me whereas BMK's just glides over.

This doesn't diminish BMK's greatness or vidwath, individual tastes of course vary and that is where this kind of opinion belongs.

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 18 Feb 2006, 13:12

Namaskar Sivaraman

BMK is an intellectual - his knowledge of Sanskrit itself has given him an edge over other artists to render difficult items with ease. The Sivanandalahari that he has rendered in Virutham format is so divine that his prounounciation, enunciation and voice are crystal clear with great emphasis on the raag as well. Listen to the Navavarana Kritis that he has sung. What a mastery! He is an excellent composer too - he has composed on all the 72 melakarta ragas.

I was upset however on one occasion, though even now I am his admirer. While BMK accepted the encomiums poured on him by J Jayalalitha, he refused to accept some title conferred on him by a wing of Kanchi Mutt in Mumbai (see this link):

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/06murali.htm

This could be his personal choice; but then he belittled a great institution whose traditions run over 2,500 years. The controversy at that time was the arrest of Kanchi Sankaracharya and the Junior. This has nothing to do with the acceptance of the title or the Mutt's reputation. It still enjoys a great following.

[Talking about the Mutt, though out of context, when Child's Trust Hospital in Chennai was taken over by the Mutt, people were wondering what would happen to the fate of the Hospital. Today it is well run. Recently a Christian colleague from office had her child admitted in that Hospital at the behest of the specialist. She was extremely happy at the way her child was taken care so well by the Hospital staff and doctors. She wondered whether she would have got the same comfort at any other commercial hospital.]

The point is we should look long-term. Political parties crave recognition by honouring different artists. But the artists should not get swayed by that.

I do not want to compare BMK with any other artist. Each artist has his own style. I whole-heartedly accept BMK's music.

Kaumaaram

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 18 Feb 2006, 17:20

VK,
You have every right to your opinion on the greatness of BMK.But, I am sorry to say that comparing him to NK is doing great injustice to both these eminent artistes, who have their own distinct style of music.I am also an admirer of NK's music for your information, but I will never do the mistake of comparing him and deriding the Great BMK.All I said was that BMK's music moves me to the depths of my soul and I do not agree with you views that his mukhari is superficial.
The point I am trying to make is that BMK has had to struggle quite a lot to achieve the eminence he now commands in Tamilnadu, and I have been upset with the treatment meted out to him by Tamilnadu sabhas and musicians in his early years, just because he hails from Andhra.But since his extraordinary talent could not be suppressed , Tamilnadu had to grudgingly accept his genius and talent.
My point about this forum's bias against BMK is borne out by your snide remarks about his ability to sing Mukhari.Also the fact that, inspite of his greatness,his legion of fans, his contribution to CM and the awards and titles he has got, this forum has largely tried to ignore him and his music.I have seen very few samples of his music posted here, unlike those of many of his contemporaries. Nor has there been any objective discussion about his musical genius and his contribution to CM.This clearly reveals that most of these forum members suffer from an Andhra bias, which makes them wear coloured glasses while ignoting the great BMK.
Oh for the day when we do not go by narrow sectarian and language barriers and learn to respect a musician for his true worth.
Btw, I am a tamilian, quite impressed with the talent of andhra artistes, whom tamilnadu has largely ignored.
Sivaraman.
Sivaraman.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 18 Feb 2006, 17:28

kaumaaram,
Thank you for acknowledging BMK's greatness.At least I am glad that I have one objective CM fan on my side, who can, dispassionately analyze the genius of BMK and give him credit for his immense contribution to CM.
But, I think you are mistaken regarding BMK's refusal to accept the Kanchi Mutt award.I know for a fact that BMK is a great devotee of the Acharya and would never show him disrespect in this way.The true reason for his refusal to accept the award was that he was distraught by the seer's arrest and wanted to wait for the cases against him to be quashed and his innocence proved .He wanted to await this judgement day when he will be honoured to accept the award from the blessed hands of the Paramacharya himself.
Why don't you write to BMK and get this fact clarified,instead of harbouring a suspicion regarding his intentions, while refusing the award?
Sivaraman.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 18 Feb 2006, 18:08

Padmavibhushan Dr. M. Balamurli Krishna
This article is an admixture of an article from The Hindu and few articles appeared on rec.music.indian.classical. ``Music resembles poetry; in each are numerous graces which no methods can teach and which a mastermind alone reach''.

Balamurali Krishna , the celebrated Carnatic musician and vaaggEyakaara of this century is one such musical genius. He has an appeal of his own in the international arena and both the commoner as well as the connoisseur are swayed by the variety of his music and his melodious voice.

Born on July 6, 1930 at Sankaraguptam (a small hamlet in Rajolu Taluk, East Godavari District, Andhra Pradesh) to Mangalampalli Pattabhiramayya and Suryakanthamma, Murali Krishna inherited the musical traits of his parents. Pattabhiramayya was a famous flutist and a music teacher and Suryakanthama a notable veena artiste. Suryakanthamma died when Balamurali was a 15 day old baby. From then on he was brought up by his maternal aunt Subbamma. When he was just two years old, Pattabhiramayya brought him to Vijayawada. At this very young age, he imbibed the nuances of music when his father taught his disciples.

Encouraged by this Pattabhiramayya entrusted him to `Gayaka Sarvabhauma' Parupalli Ramakrishnayya Pantulu under whose competent tuteleage Murali Krishna reached the pinnacle of fame in the field of music. In the order of Guru Parampara, the musician is directly the fifth in the line of disciples of saint Tyagaraja. Parupalli Ramakrishnayya Pantulu, Susarla Dakshinamoorthy Sastry, Akumadugula Manambuchavadi Venkata Subbayya and Saint Tyagaraja.

At the age of eight during the Sadguru Arandhanotsavas (felicitation to Parupalli Ramakrishnayya's guru Susarla Dakshinamoorthy) at Vijayawada, in 1938 where he gave his first full-fledged performance. Balamurali's talent came to the fore. Captivated by his pleasant disposition, it was Musunuri Satyanarayana a distinguished Hari katha performer who gave the prefix ``Bala'' to the young Murali Krishna. Due to his continuous concerts, Pattabhiramayya was persuaded by his friends to let Balamurali dedicate himself completely to music and he stopped attending school when he was in class VI. From then Balamurali Krishna took the world by storm with his mellifluous voice and did not whither away like many other child prodigies. Very soon he proved his versatility by playing kanjira, mridangam, viola and violin and the public flocked to hear his concerts.

Balamurali Krishna wrote a detailed work on the 72 Janakaraga or Melakarta (basic scales of music) scheme at he the tender age of 14. These compositions were accepted by the music circles also because they were more elaborate than that of the earlier writer Venkatamakhin, a versatile genius of the Nayak regime.

Balamurali Krishna served as a music Producer at Vijayawada, Hyderabad and the Madras All India Radio Stations. In this capacity, he pioneered the early hour devotional renderings in India under the title `Bhakthi Ranjani'. He also acted as the first Principal of the Government Music College at Vijayawada. After his transfer to Madras All India Radio he settled in Madras in order to devote his attention to innovation and creative compositions.

Balamurali Krishna has been invited to give concerts by countries U.S., Canada, U.K., Italy, France, Russia, Srilanka, Malaysia, Singapore, the U.K., Middle East etc. He has given more than 18,000 performance throughout the world and has created a world record by 250 audio cassettes brought out by the Sangeetha Recording Company.

Balamurali Krishna has also proved his talent as a playback singer, music director and actor in several languages. He received National Awards as the best playback singer for `Hamsageethe' (Kannada feature film), best music director for `Madhvacharya', and left an indelible imprint in the hearts of the people with his portrayal as a hero in the Malayalam film in ``Sandhya Kendina Sindooram''.

He has bagged many titles and awards ``Gana Sudhakara'', ``Sur Singar'', ``Geeta Kala Bharati'', Sangita Nataka Akademi Award Padmashri and Padma Vibushan are some of them.

He was also conferred the Ph.D., D.Sc and D.Litt by the Andhra University, Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University, Sri Venkateswara University and the University of Hyderabad respectively.

He founded "Academy of Performing Arts and Research" in Switzerland and is also working on music therapy.

Though on one side he was showered with innumerable laurels, on the other he was declared as a stormy petrel of the music world by a few due to his creations of new ragas such as Mahati, Sumukham, Sarvashri, Omkari, Janasamodini, Manorama, Rohini, Vallabhi, Lavangi, Hamsavinodini, Pratimadhyamavathi, Sushama etc.

He is often criticized as idiosyncretic. He is different, who has embarked on a new enterprise - a rediscovery of the classical music of the past and its recreation through the embracing of a neo-classical style. He is not necessarily for or against,contribute or confirm, sustain or destroy a tradition.He seem to be least perturbed with the criticisms. He has a strong conviction, right or wrong, that he is there to replace unending melody with discrete order, syncretic and synthetic forms with self-contained ones and emotional self expression with strictly musical statements. It is paradox packed, self imposed music.

He has said (though not in these words), for me, as a creative musician, composition is a daily function that I feel compelled to discharge. I compose because, I am made for that and cannot do otherwise. I stumble upon something unexpected. This unexpected element strikes me. I make a note of it. At the proper time, I put it to profitable use.

He does not believe in the pristine principles of the past, but has supreme confidence in the practical purview of the present. He is a paradox for the puritan, a bore for the conservative and an avathara for the neoclassicist.

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vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Feb 2006, 22:36

I am also an admirer of NK's music for your information, but I will never do the mistake of comparing him and deriding the Great BMK.

Sivaramanji, my apologies if my remarks came across that way("deriding the great BMK"). I thought I provided the disclaimer to the opposite.

I would not call my bringing NK into the mix a mistake at all, since it is all about illustrating what the two renditions do to me. It is not about comparing those two eminent artists but I do not know how else to talk about this. Mukhari and a few other ragas touch something primal in me which is hard to explain and so I am prone to notice when it glides over.

'superficial' is how you interpreted what I said which is fine but it may not be 'superficial' at the source but it is received as such at the receiver. You can say 'why blame BKM for that?". That I have to accept. Music is a funny business in that respect. Another time, another mood & another song, the reception may be completely different.

All I said was that BMK's music moves me to the depths of my soul and I do not agree with you views that his mukhari is superficial.

I hundred percent respect that and I wish I can feel what you feel.

I had a similar discussion a while back with a KJY fan ( not comparing KJY and BMK here ). KJY does not do it for me either, even though there are so many great individual elements he excels in. It is that Gestalt thing again.

It is funny in one sense that it is all selfishness on my part. I want their music to do stuff for me... I greatly love the individual skills they have ( great and smooth voice, swara suddham for the most part etc. ) but when it does not do it at the level I can feel, I even get upset at them, 'Hey, come on, what are you doing, you can do so much better'. But that kind of reaction, chiding if you will, comes from a respectful place in me knowing fully well that it is me who 'does not get it'.

Balamurali Krishna served as a music Producer at Vijayawada, Hyderabad and the Madras All India Radio Stations. In this capacity, he pioneered the early hour devotional renderings in India under the title `Bhakthi Ranjani'.

Thanks for this info, I did not know that. So BMK had a hand in introducing me to music since those morning programs on AIR were my first introductions to classical music. That is the power of mass communications and I am glad that a person of BMK's calibre and influence was there at the right place and right time to make that happen.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 00:41

VK,
I think it is futile to discuss this any further.I can only quote the latin phrase:
"De gustibus non est disputandum"
(There is no disputing about tastes).What you consider to be music for the soul may not move me and vice versa.
As long as you realise that the limitation to appreciate a great musician like BMK lies with you and not with his music, it is fine.
For the record,after my retirement from an active service career, I have been able to do much more research into the great BMK's music, and everyday I am privileged to find new dimensions to his musical genius and today I live and breathe his music everyday as a form or meditation and relaxation and also as a form of sangeetha aradhana.When I hear his "Brihadeeswara Mahadeva" in Kanada, I am transported spiritually to the sanctum sanctorum of Lord Shiva in Tanjavur Temple.I also understand that BMK was inspired to compose this krithi spontaneously when he visited the Tanjore temple. So much did this enthralling composition inspire another Carnatic Great Maharajapuram Santhanam, that he composed another carbon copy of Brihadeeswara, which runs thus:
"Thirukedeeswara, Mahalinga" also in Kanada,
which is identical in every sangathi to the original, " Brihadeewara" by the great BMK.
I think this suffices to give a glimpse into BMK's musical genius and in my view he has reserved for himself an immortal place in the Hall of Fame of the Greats of CM.
Sivaraman.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 01:30

Here is BMK's "Brihadeeswara",that inspired Kanada composition, which moved me spiritually:

http://rapidshare.de/files/13570708/BMK ... a.mp3.html

Sivaraman.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 02:00

Here is a scintillating RTP in Abhogi by the Maestro BMK:

http://rapidshare.de/files/13572935/BMK ... i.mp3.html

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 02:25

And here's the Santhanam "Thirukedeeswara Mahalinga", an adaptation of BMK's "Brihadeeswara".

http://rapidshare.de/files/13574603/Mah ... K.mp3.html
This also is a brilliant and soul stirring effort.
Enjoy.
Sivaraman.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 02:57

And here is a zip file of BMK's first 10 melakarta own compositions, which I got courtesy Sri Kranthi Kiran of the sruthi-laya group:
http://rapidshare.de/files/13576445/72_ ... 0.zip.html

Sivaraman.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2006, 11:21

Thanks Sivaraman for that 72 mela bit of BMK! Any chance of getting the rest of it?

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 20:03

I have requested the original donor,Krantikiran of sruthi-laya group for the rest of the melakarta gems of BMK.Will post it here when I recieve it.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 20:31

Coolkarni,
Your words on the great BMK:

"Just when i started to think that I have seen all of BMK's tricks, here comes another.
HE HAS SUNG A DASAR PADA AFTER TRANSLATING IT TO TELUGU.
Boy.We must give it to him."

It is regrettable that you have adopted a condescending attitude towards one of the alltime greats of CM.Do you think you are that qualified that you have to "give it to him", condescendingly?
You also say that you have seen "all of BMK's tricks".This again is in very bad taste towards a great maestro.What tricks are you referring to that you have seen in the great maestro's music?
Please do not hurt the feelings of the legion of BMK fans by such crude words.
My own attitude while listening to all CM musicians is to keep an open mind and appreciate some aspect of every musician, even though I consider BMK as my idol.I have never in my life tried to hurt the feeling of fellow rasikas who may have different favourite musicians, by castigating their idols with personal bias.I think one cannot call himself a great CM rasika unless one develops this catholic attitude of enjoying all musicians, besides your own favourite artiste by keeping an open mind receptive to good music from every artiste.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 19 Feb 2006, 22:38

sivaraman,
please do not mistake coolkarni's intentions!!! he was not making fun of BMK... no sir, indeed no!!!

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 22:45

I wish I am able to hear this from Coolkarni to clear the air and show proper respect to the great BMK.
Sivaraman.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2006, 22:51

Now I am afraid of exclaiming:
"Oh Boy! what performance BMK has given in the 72 mela clip!"
Lest Sivarman would chide me for calling BMK a boy

Dear Sivarman!

Coolkarni has given actually the highest compliment to the skills of BMK!

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 22:59

Well, the way he used the English language, it appears more as a left handed compliment.
Please let Mr.Coolkarni clear the air on this issue, instead of others defending him.
I have been an ardent carnatic music lover for over 50 years and hail from a music family of high lineage which includes the likes of the Late Flute Mali,Dr.N.Ramani and the current sensation Bombay Jayashree and also have had the experience of running a music sabha and interacting with all great musicians. I think I can distinguish what is a genuine appreciation of an artiste and what amounts to snide remarks, meant to deride a great musician.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 19 Feb 2006, 23:03

sivaraman,
maybe u can tone down ur remarks about the great BMK... he is great, no doubt..but what u r doing is fanaticism...
coolkarni is as good a rasika as one can ever find.. and WE WILL stand up for coolkarni, he is a great man!!! especially bcos he did no wrong... his comments were absolutely not an insult to BMK

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Feb 2006, 23:20

venkatpv,
I could say that your attitude of defending Coolkarni amounts to rabid fanaticism.I have written nothing which needs to be toned down.I was only trying to defend a great musician about whom cheap words were used.I have never disputed about coolkarni being a rasika, great or otherwise.You are at liberty to stand up for him till the cows come home.
And as I said earlier, if coolkarni did'nt mean any insult to BMK, let him express this in his own words, instead of others defending him.

jayachAmarAja · Post by **jayachAmarAja** » 19 Feb 2006, 23:31

could say that your attitude of defending Coolkarni amounts to rabid fanaticism

My point about this forum's bias against BMK is borne out by your snide remarks about his ability to sing Mukhari

I have never in my life tried to hurt the feeling of fellow rasikas

really ??

venkatpv, i think it is futile talking to the likes of Mr.Sivaraman, who simply cannot even start to comprehend Mr. Kulkarni's magnanimity. I normally don't participate much, but his rudeness is rather annoying !

This clearly reveals that most of these forum members suffer from an Andhra bias,

This in a completely unwarranted reply to a "comparison" with Nedanuri.. now where you do think Nedanuri is from ?? Zululand ??

could say that your attitude of defending Coolkarni amounts to rabid fanaticism

and that would make your attitude what ??

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Feb 2006, 00:32

jayachAmarAja,
Your words:
I normally don't participate much, but his rudeness is rather annoying !

1. I do not understand why certain members of this forum have to start trading insults with me, when there is a healthy debate about a subject.JC, do you think use of the word "fanaticism" to describe my defense of the great musician BMK was correct? My response was prompted by this rudeness on the part of the concerned member.
And pray, do you think your own letter is very civil and courteous in it's tone, when you yourself are accusing me of rudeness?Where is my rudeness in trying to defend a great musician, whom I and a legion of fans hold in very high esteem?
2.JC, why do you have to insult me with rude words, when I have no quarrel with you?
3.I have never cast aspersions on Coolkarni as a person.He may be very magnanimous in his contributions to this forum.I am not disputing this.You people are entitled to stand up for him for what he has contributed.Even I respect him for his contributions.But does that entitle him or others like you to insult a great musician and my defense of him by calling me a fanatic.?
Now tell me who is being rude and annoying.
3. You have taken my use of the words," Andhra bias" out of context. Nowhere did I use it in the context of discussing NK.The "andhra bias" was used in the context of tamilians in general( I myself am a tamilian) trying to ignore andhra musicians and giving them the due recognition they are entitled to.You do not have to tell me where NK and other great musicians like Voleti,Nookula, Chittibabu,Emany etc. hail from.I fully well know they are not from zululand.
The andhra bias of this forum is my personal opinion based on the lack of space given to great musicians from Andhra like BMK, either in the discussions or in the posting of krithis/
4.And the comparison between BMK and NK itself was unwarranted, since both are eminent artistes, and BMK need not be derided to say that NK sings mukahari better.And anyway, this is a subjective opinion of one rasika, and I have already used the latin phrase "De gustibus non est disputandum" ( there is no disputing about tastes) in another thread, to describe the subjective nature of music appreciation.
5.Please let us keep this debate healthy and civil, without trading insults.
I just wanted Coolkarni to assert that he meant no insult to the great BMK and close the chapter on this debate which I do not want to take any further ugly turns, the way it is being twisted and cheapened by certain members like you, with whom, I repeat, I have no personal quarrel.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 20 Feb 2006, 01:56

Sivaramanji,

Please continue with your posts on Dr. BMK. This is a thread dedicated to him, and I hope to see more nice stuff not only of Dr BMK, but also of all other Andhra artistes whom you feel have been ignored. Please start your threads for each artiste separately.

I dont think anyone needs to ask apology from anyone else. Everyone is entitled to their views, sarcastic or otherwise. Coolkarni is a respected friend and contributor, and we all know he is upto no sarcasm or insult. I know he wont clarify anything because there is no need to - he is very well entitled to his own views, whatever they are.

Thanks & Regards.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Feb 2006, 02:32

srkris,
Many thanks for restoring some sanity into this thread, which was threatening to turn ugly with personal insults on my views about the Great BMK, whom I consider an alltime great in the field of CM.
I neither seek nor expect any apology from Coolkarni.Neither does a great artiste like BMK likely to be affected by criticism from various quarters for his revolutionary trail blazing and creative contributions to the field of CM.
I have already made it clear that everybody is entitled to their own opinion as to choice of their favourite artistes, including Coolkarni and other members of this forum.
By the same token I expect members of this forum to show me some respect as a senior citizen and an ardent lover of carnatic music, who is also entitled to his views about andhra artistes in general and about BMK in particular.There is no cause for some members to portray me as a fanatic and rude man, just because I chose to put up a staunch defense of the legendary BMK.
I have no bones to pick with Coolkarni at a personal level.I also respect and admire him for his contributions.But it hurts me when certain members indulge in a verbal abusive slanging match for just trying to express my views about the Great BMK whom I admire.
Anyway, let me thank you once again profusely for taking an objective view of my posts. Please count on me for any help you require in running this very purposeful forum.

jayachAmarAja · Post by **jayachAmarAja** » 20 Feb 2006, 06:37

Mr. Sivaraman, while srkris has posted very tactfully/sensibly and there seems to be not much point in prolonging this argument, i will respond to your last post addressed to me.

(i) you ask me why i cannot be courteous while i demand it of you.. i was asking you the same question.. you cannot be strident in your tone and expect others to be civil.. please go back and you will see who was rude in the first place..

But does that entitle him or others like you to insult a great musician

(ii) Mr. Kulkarni made a statement which to most people i am sure sounded a compliment to BMK, but no, to you, it was a "left-handed" one.. in other words, this was a *complete non-issue* unless u made it one.. There was numerous posts saying Mr. Kulkarni wasn't being insulting to anyone, which you deliberately chose to ignore. No one was stepping in to "defend" Mr. Kulkarni.. he is one person here who needs no defending... besides, as i said, at no time was he rude, and this is a COMPLETE non-issue.. if i spoke out against you, just as i am sure venkatpv did, it was not to defend him, but out of righteous indignation..

I just wanted Coolkarni to assert that he meant no insult to the great BMK

I neither seek nor expect any apology from Coolkarni.

(iii) these atatements appear mutually contradictory..

Please let us keep this debate healthy and civil, without trading insults.

yes, let us please..

srkris has rightly suggested a more constructive approach in his opening paragraph. If you were to inititate a discussion, I am sure you will quickly find that most people here are far more open-minded than u give them/us credit for.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Feb 2006, 09:09

Things move quite fast in these forums , dont they.
I once heard a psychologist remark Thus:

" Hate , the moment it is expressed , is taken at full value .Never doubted for a second.But Love , when expressed is not treated the same way.This is for the simple reason that To Love means to keep going back to the source and discover it again and again. Whether it is a marriage or a faith One has to keep up the process of discovery again and again. hate is a onetime affair , Love is a Lifelong commitment"

or words to this effect.

But let me quickly go though with my apologies To Sivraman.
Yes I was probably not very correct in using the word Trick in my post.I can understand that it does give rise to a suspicion.But if you had read my opening post on this thread you would have given me a benefit of doubt.
OR better if you had read my posts where I argued against the discussion of Nonmusical aspects in the Kalyanraman thread , You would not need a reference to third umpire at all.
So this should calm you down , folks.
I will be a bit more careful , hereafter.
Sivraman (and other newcomers)
Here is something for your records
1.Quite early in life I was trained to be a good rasika , and part of that training included listening to even the lesser known singers.
2.I have one of the largest collections of
a)Balmuarli-audios and videos (and I thank Raju Asokan and Krishna Balantrapu for these)
b)GNB-MLV-Kalyanraman(and I have to thank Rajasekhar for these)
c) Somu (and I thank Raju asokan for these)
d) TRS (and I thank his disciple Delhi Muthukumar for these)

and I can Go on and on ... with all artists.

Thanjavur Sankara Iyer used to very playfully request me if I would decide to become his student.He used to project me(to his students) as the ideal preparatory stuff , because I used to listen to 5-6 hours every day -Top quality music.
Never finding a way to stop him , I finally took my chance with a Question
Sir, If I do decide to become your student ,do you guarantee that I will be able to enjoy EACH AND EVERY MUSICIAN the way I do now .
He thought for a while and said "I take back my request.You do have a point.Let things be as they are'
So you see Sivraman , I have very carefully nurtured my ability to be objective and enjoy music the way I want to.

My Point is that I share, upload and discuss purely as a committed rasika and I do not bring any of my personal views on music here.I have some of my own views on BMK but for that FOR THAT I INVITE YOU TO MY HOME IN CHENNAI , ANYTIME YOU WISH.
I will guarantee you that you will have to drag your feet when you leave my Home.
Param will give you a first hand report if you wish.
Or better a set of my complete Balmurali collection , if you wish.One look at the careful work that has gone into its compiling, all your anger will vanish!!!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Feb 2006, 11:43

My first response was made in a hurry as I did not want to lose time.
Even minutes could be a matter of Life and Death for me !!! (as a forum member)
It is only now that I have been able to read all the posts.
And I am simply aghast at the reactions.
I beseech all of you -in future-to let a few days pass before you come to judgements.
Srkris.If those three bits of sweet advice on "forum-behaviour" that pop up first are only because of my post , please remove them.They will always be an ugly reminder to me.I extend my hand -knuckles upwards-yet again,for my punishment.
CML-Venkatpv-JC Sorry I put you all through this.You see BMK's smile -to me-has always been a personification of an "Impish smile ' .And Imps as we know are lovely creatures.That was what probably led me to use the words trick.
By the way Sivraman , did you notice the giggles / laughter during the rendering .That is the way it is with BMK.The purist may never understand the need for humour in a carnatic concert .Or why , one can even watch the BMK-Bhimsen Video which was put up on my behalf.
In other words I would have never dared to use this word with a Ariakudi Track or a MS Track.
(though the dictionary allows me to use it in the sense of
A special skill; a knack
A convention or specialized skill peculiar to a particular field of activity
A deceptive or illusive appearance; an illusion

But I will let this be buried , right now and here )

As far as lineage is concerned , I have a very interesting story to tell .A story that started with Sankara Iyers attempt to pry into my lineage(he was fascinated that a chap coming from the Hindusthani belt could LOVE CM so dearly.)I never knew much of it because my dad was born an Orphan and grew up with his OLD (maternal)Grandmother .But as i kept getting bits and pieces from my father and transmitting it, he taught me a great lesson : "Boy" he would say
"That I am connected to infinity one way is definite because I exist.It is such a wonderful thought.My own tryst with infinity the other way , my Boy I am not sure.All that matters to me is that you are an important part of that link .You are what you are with whatever you can absorb from all the four directions...Take as much as you can from me"
Nothing fanciful , Nothing Royal , Nothing exciting ... but he made my lineage a responsibility to me ..
As many friends confide to me privately, visits to these forums are such Lessons in Life .And It should remain that way.And I would be the last person to make it murky.
SO Srkris, Pleeease remove those guidelines.

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 20 Feb 2006, 14:20

kaumaaram,
Thank you for acknowledging BMK's greatness.............Why don't you write to BMK and get this fact clarified,instead of harbouring a suspicion regarding his intentions, while refusing the award?
Sivaraman.

Namaskar Sivaraman.

I respect your views. I will do so, as and when an opportunity presents itself. I am glad that you have been able to clarify this point. I trust and value your information. But we here in Tamil Nadu have learnt a bit too far to understand that media reports are not to be totally relied upon - there is a marked shift from reporting the correct version to reporting only sensational news. I have learnt this yet again.

The TATAs had a slogan sometime back :"We encourage dissension". That in turn leads to creativity. Similarly, it justifies the free and fair view that an employee could have in an organisation. Drawing a simulation from this, I am sure that you will definitely appreciate the fact that the views of other members in this forum are not necessarily inimical either to the development or to the reputation of the artist. I am not here to correct anyone, but let me state that we must accept brickbats and bouquets in the same spirit.

I have been with this forum for quite sometime now, but I do not find any "bias" on the grounds of nativity, in any form whatsoever. So let us not bring in some extraneous dimensions and prejudices lest it should drive us to oblivion of being an Indian first.

Cheers

Kaumaaram

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 20 Feb 2006, 14:31

Coolkarniji,

No, certainly those guidelines at the top were not aimed at you. They were general and particularly for the new members who might not have an idea of this forum. Please see [link=http://freepgs.com/carnatic/viewtopic.php?id=254]this thread[/link].

If you still feel they are not necessary, I can remove them.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2006, 20:57

Coolkarni

You carefully avoided giving the "British" meaning of the word 'tricks'. If you don't know DRS should be able to educate you. Once my english friend couldn't contain his laughter when I told him that a certain sales girl tricked me. Thereafter I am very careful about using the term in polite company going to the extent of even saying that we were entertained by 'prestidigital manipulations' than saying simple 'magic tricks'

Any way next time you meet the Chevalier keep that wicked wink off your face and put on the natural cherubic coolkarni look as you ask 'How's tricks?'.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Feb 2006, 23:55

A tempest in a tea-cup! I thought that we were being sheltered here, but I guess I was mistaken.
I like Kulkarni sa'ab's attitude: I once said that to post on these bulletin boards, one needs to have skin that is one part rhinoceros hide and 3 parts armored plate. I feel that there is NO NEED to respond to each and every post. Everyone is entitled to their views. I do think we have to be charitable and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. After all, this is purely voluntary and ALL of us appreciate the time/effort/energy/expense that stalwarts like Chembai, Kulkarni sa'ab, CML, DRS, Lji, Meena, RC (to mention ONLY A FEW) have invested in keeping this an educational forum. While dissention maybe healthy to the TATAs, it certainly pollutes the atmosphere here.
As a request, if any member, current or future finds that we have 'ignored' someone of merit, please post information/tracks etc on the artist in question. If people are intersted, they will read, post and participate. Like CML said somewhere else, if it is 'thEn', the bees will come automatically.
Another request: the best way to make an issue a non-issue is to ignore it.
Thanks.
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 00:34

At least now I have a better perspective on the raging 'cartoon controversy'!
lOkO bhinna ruci (De gustibus non est disputandum )(meena FYI

)

meena · Post by **meena** » 21 Feb 2006, 01:17

cml

latin no prob. but french i'm more at home

new_cmfan · Post by **new_cmfan** » 21 Feb 2006, 01:20

CML - You are a wise man. I really enjoy your posts - particularly your one-liners in sanskrit - unfortunately, i have to find the meaning of the words in order to understand those gems; would you be kind enough to write the meanings right after you type something in sanskrit? This is akin to your request for notation from DRS

- hope you will indulge me.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 05:02

tathAstu (be it so)!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 21 Feb 2006, 13:34

cml

<<Any way next time you meet the Chevalier keep that wicked wink off your face and put on the natural cherubic coolkarni look as you ask 'How's tricks?>>

i refuse to get dragged further .right now i am feeling like that young brother of the heroine natasha (in war and peace) who rushes to the war in fanciful glory after dreaming about it for years .
and as the first bullets start whizzing past him , he starts exclaiming:

WHY ? THEY ARE SHOOTING AT ME ?!!!
ME , WHOM EVERYONE LOVES ?""

i am doing parihara by listening to bmk -non stop -to get this thing out of my system.
and i promise.i will remain silent here about this artist for a long long time.
bmk tracks i may post (until somebody sees a sarcasm there ) but words or sentences or paragraphs..never.

Srkris.
No need to remove the guidelines..

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Feb 2006, 13:48

WHY ? THEY ARE SHOOTING AT ME ?!!!
ME , WHOM EVERYONE LOVES ?""

LOL...

and what an appropriate story you picked....I am still grinning...

and you have to trust me on this one, just as we were coming back from the grocery store a couple of hours back, we were listening to Mooladhara Murthy by BMK...A very nice rendition indeed... enjoyed it very much... I did not think of it as 'parihara' but now that you put it that way, I say 'tathAstu'. ( is that a right usage, CML? )

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 21 Feb 2006, 17:45

Srkris,

I believe that you may remove the guidelines. This would be in line with your wish that the members may express their opinions in a free and fair manner.

Kaumaaram.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 21 Feb 2006, 17:51

Expressing in a free and fair manner is not the same as saying whatever comes to mind. The "fair"ness is important. Civility is a must even in free speech. Let the guidelines be. It does not offend anyone as far as I can see. I think it serves a useful purpose- a gentle reminder.

Mahesh · Post by **Mahesh** » 21 Feb 2006, 20:09

I'm listening to his MA 1967 concert, can someone let me know the accompanists please?

The list is as follows.

Sree Ganpathe
Palllukavami ra
Varanarada
Samajavaragamana
Enthamudu
Budhiradu
Slokam
Varaneela
Sheerasagara
Pavanastuthi
Mangalam

Many thanks.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 22:24

Not so fast coolkarni!
The day you stop discussing (including BMK) is the day CML loses his voice too! We don't want you to be a postman here! For fear of mosquitoes would you quit your home!

"asArE khalu saMsArE sAraM shItakarNa prapancanaM
upadaMshaM nAsticEt kiM phalaM dadhyanna bhOjanaM"

(In this monotonous (web) world the intersting thing is the expatiations by cookarni(shItakarNa). What use is curd rice (music) without pickles(the lovely anecdotes and recollections of Kji)
(sorry could not really capture the spirit in English!
En ce monde monotone (les Web)) la chose intersting est les expatiations par le cookarni(shItakarNa). Quelle utilisation est riz de lait caillÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â© (musique) sans pickles (beaux anecdotes et souvenirs de Kji)
(Is that better

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 22 Feb 2006, 00:56

Coolkarni,
First and foremost accept my apologies to you also for any intemperate words I might have used in defense of my idol, the great Dr.Balamuralikrishna,whose music has inspired me for the last four decades of my 67 years of existence.We are all human beings and at times our emotions lead us to chose the wrong words, which may, unintentionally hurt others.If my words have hurt you, I withdraw them and am sorry for the same.

It was the Bard of Avon, who said: " If Music be the Food of Love, Play on, Play on"
And Music, Carnatic Music particularly, should not be the cause of so much of heat and hatred, since Divinity is the Soul of CM and it should be the harbinger of Love and Universal Brotherhood.It is sad that I seem to be isolated in this forum for defending a great musician's music, which is close to my heart, with various members pouncing on me and insulting and humiliating me.
I now wish to end this controversy here and now by offering to quit this forum, if the administrator and other members feel that I am not welcome anymore for expressing my views

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Feb 2006, 01:31

Sivaramanji, I for one do not want you to feel isolated and for sure do not want you to quit this forum. Your contributions to this forum are already enormous. As srkris mentioned in his posting, you are most welcome in expressing your views.