Karnatic music - current and future generations
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, In regard to our Karnataka music you have invited suitable answers for 7 questions in all. I am almost 70 yrs. of age and with my abundant and critical experience as a teacher, performer, observer, analyzer, researcher, author of rare books of their kind I shall try to answer them. However, this is a very important and serious topic of this day inviting an urgent and critical debate in a meeting of our south Indian community.
1.Are we making Karnataka music too difficult for the current and future generations?
From the beginning our Indian tradition, in all aspects, is too rigid and difficult to understand and follow like our Vedas and Sanskrit classics as both its scientific and aesthetic approach is much deeper than any other system of music on the globe. It requires much mental and physical stamina along with true devotion, dedication, patience and perseverance of an aspirant. Unless the process of teaching and learning our Karnataka music is made much easier and suitable to this age of jet-speed and to the present mind-set of the people it is very difficult to survive. I have formulated some easy methods for this and implemented them successfully finding very nice results.
2.Why young and old teachers don’t teach them properly?
Nowadays, it has become very difficult to struggle for survival and, in general, many of the music teachers are teaching what they already know mostly concentrating on their earnings only but not teaching what an aspirant requires according to his/her level of understanding. To assess the level of an aspirant the teacher’s level should be more than his aspirant like a person who remains in the 5th floor can only observe the things happening in the lower floors of him. More over, to earn something in the struggle for survival, it is a birth right of each and everybody to teach others what a he/she already knows irrespective of what the aspirant, in fact, requires. To build up the standards without any compromise a result oriented fast teaching system has to be evolved and propagated and all the music teachers have to follow it. This kind of teaching system has now been evolved and implemented finding very nice results.
3.How to sustain interest (in teaching or learning)?
If the process of teaching and learning is made easy and the results are encouraging, naturally, it sustains the interest either in teaching or learning.
4.Has our music become too technical?
It looks like a thing filled with technicalities in the absence of a rational process of teaching and learning. It has, now, been made easy with result oriented systems and it is up to the music teachers to propagate and follow it in the interest of keeping our culture in tact sacrificing some of their selfish interests, at the least.
5.How do we keep this simple and at the same time interesting?
As has been told above, some interesting, innovative, easy methods in teaching music have been evolved making the process easier and quicker with fast and nice results and it is up to the teachers to understand, follow and propagate in the interest of keeping our culture in tact.
6.How other styles of music are taking over our generation and are we losing to keep up?
Naturally, fast and easy earning subjects take over the generation by its wave. Nowadays, how many students are learning Vedas and Sanskrit. Though very discouraging, still, there are some devoted and dedicated students learning them only in the sustained interest in our culture. They must, at every cost, be encouraged by our whole community in each and every required manner with true Indian spirit.
7.Are the performers promoting themselves or promoting music?
Of course, always, far more than a performer, an efficient, devoted, dedicated, loyal, impartial and sincere TEACHER is mostly needed to a society. To promote our music it is our duty to produce efficient and sincere teachers. I have been struggling hard on a single hand doing this since last 10 years. While many are the performers but can also teach to earn something in addition, I am a professional and critical teacher working without any monetary benefit but can also perform which makes all the difference. amsharma.
1.Are we making Karnataka music too difficult for the current and future generations?
From the beginning our Indian tradition, in all aspects, is too rigid and difficult to understand and follow like our Vedas and Sanskrit classics as both its scientific and aesthetic approach is much deeper than any other system of music on the globe. It requires much mental and physical stamina along with true devotion, dedication, patience and perseverance of an aspirant. Unless the process of teaching and learning our Karnataka music is made much easier and suitable to this age of jet-speed and to the present mind-set of the people it is very difficult to survive. I have formulated some easy methods for this and implemented them successfully finding very nice results.
2.Why young and old teachers don’t teach them properly?
Nowadays, it has become very difficult to struggle for survival and, in general, many of the music teachers are teaching what they already know mostly concentrating on their earnings only but not teaching what an aspirant requires according to his/her level of understanding. To assess the level of an aspirant the teacher’s level should be more than his aspirant like a person who remains in the 5th floor can only observe the things happening in the lower floors of him. More over, to earn something in the struggle for survival, it is a birth right of each and everybody to teach others what a he/she already knows irrespective of what the aspirant, in fact, requires. To build up the standards without any compromise a result oriented fast teaching system has to be evolved and propagated and all the music teachers have to follow it. This kind of teaching system has now been evolved and implemented finding very nice results.
3.How to sustain interest (in teaching or learning)?
If the process of teaching and learning is made easy and the results are encouraging, naturally, it sustains the interest either in teaching or learning.
4.Has our music become too technical?
It looks like a thing filled with technicalities in the absence of a rational process of teaching and learning. It has, now, been made easy with result oriented systems and it is up to the music teachers to propagate and follow it in the interest of keeping our culture in tact sacrificing some of their selfish interests, at the least.
5.How do we keep this simple and at the same time interesting?
As has been told above, some interesting, innovative, easy methods in teaching music have been evolved making the process easier and quicker with fast and nice results and it is up to the teachers to understand, follow and propagate in the interest of keeping our culture in tact.
6.How other styles of music are taking over our generation and are we losing to keep up?
Naturally, fast and easy earning subjects take over the generation by its wave. Nowadays, how many students are learning Vedas and Sanskrit. Though very discouraging, still, there are some devoted and dedicated students learning them only in the sustained interest in our culture. They must, at every cost, be encouraged by our whole community in each and every required manner with true Indian spirit.
7.Are the performers promoting themselves or promoting music?
Of course, always, far more than a performer, an efficient, devoted, dedicated, loyal, impartial and sincere TEACHER is mostly needed to a society. To promote our music it is our duty to produce efficient and sincere teachers. I have been struggling hard on a single hand doing this since last 10 years. While many are the performers but can also teach to earn something in addition, I am a professional and critical teacher working without any monetary benefit but can also perform which makes all the difference. amsharma.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
Namaskaram Sharmaji...
What a coincidence in the number 7.. Saptaswara, 70 years, 7 questions...thank you very much.
I have been a Rasika all the time but joined Rasika forum last week and these were my first questions. With no experience of this forum, felt I was posting too many questions. I realized the forum had some brilliant people and very interesting topics and kept waiting. In the process kept reading a few discussions and then because I had no responses to these questions I opened the values from Carnatic music and was happy to see the discussion. Thanks once again.
The topic of values and purpose of our music is dear to me and this was bothering me for the past 10 years. I was introduced to Karnatic music in my childhood and I learnt Mridangam for many years, listened to thousands of concerts, accompanied many artists. But always wanted to know what I was doing..It looked meaningless just playing the instrument without knowing the subject well. I keep exploring the basics and pondered on how to deal with this musical knowledge, how not to struggle with the subject and at the sametime maintain balance..just like the fellows in circus.
At this mid stage of my life, I find that without the spiritual inclination all my time & effort spent in this field is wasted.
Individual/Group (SAdhaka)--> Karnataka musical framework(SAdhana) --leads to --> Divinity(SAdya)
What a coincidence in the number 7.. Saptaswara, 70 years, 7 questions...thank you very much.
I have been a Rasika all the time but joined Rasika forum last week and these were my first questions. With no experience of this forum, felt I was posting too many questions. I realized the forum had some brilliant people and very interesting topics and kept waiting. In the process kept reading a few discussions and then because I had no responses to these questions I opened the values from Carnatic music and was happy to see the discussion. Thanks once again.
The topic of values and purpose of our music is dear to me and this was bothering me for the past 10 years. I was introduced to Karnatic music in my childhood and I learnt Mridangam for many years, listened to thousands of concerts, accompanied many artists. But always wanted to know what I was doing..It looked meaningless just playing the instrument without knowing the subject well. I keep exploring the basics and pondered on how to deal with this musical knowledge, how not to struggle with the subject and at the sametime maintain balance..just like the fellows in circus.
At this mid stage of my life, I find that without the spiritual inclination all my time & effort spent in this field is wasted.
Individual/Group (SAdhaka)--> Karnataka musical framework(SAdhana) --leads to --> Divinity(SAdya)
Last edited by narendra on 24 May 2007, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, As you have expressed in your post, being an Indian and that too a traditional Karnataka musician, always swimming in the ocean of unparalleled compositions of great saints, it is almost impossible to remain without any spiritual inclination and we all are very highly fortunate enough for having been blessed by the Almighty to regularly bath in this sacred music. Even at this mid stage of your life if you are made to have this kind of realization, you are fully blessed and this helps you to save yourself and what about your fellow passengers? So, think that you are being driven always by the Almighty and strive hard to enlighten them in every possible manner. This Maanava Seva is the real Maadhava seva which was selflessly followed by our Great Vivekananda. Do this kind of Sadhana in the name of the Almighty. With best wishes, amsharma.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
Sharmaji...
You hit the real human nature..
That is real one big obstacle that has affected generations and unless there is real experience of it as an obstacle, no one understands.
Unless this is addressed at all levels, it will haunt us from anywhere. Always this feeling of incompleteness is driving people crazy and mad. Always comparing and wanting and in the process manipulating more..always we remain thirsty without quenching the thirst.
How did the ancient people deal with them and now that the surroundings are changed and is more complex, how do the current and future generations are going to deal with this and knowing this how does it help us grow matured with musical knowledge?
to be content and go into the depth of the musical knowledge and knowing the breadth would not hurt them just like you can see the musical ocean, its breadth & depth but we all can drink some but never all the time complain still remaining empty.
I will tell my children that the musical ocean does not belong to anyONe but belongs to All of us..so no can claim ownership on any aspect and if they did it is just their own illusion.
You hit the real human nature..
That is real one big obstacle that has affected generations and unless there is real experience of it as an obstacle, no one understands.
Unless this is addressed at all levels, it will haunt us from anywhere. Always this feeling of incompleteness is driving people crazy and mad. Always comparing and wanting and in the process manipulating more..always we remain thirsty without quenching the thirst.
How did the ancient people deal with them and now that the surroundings are changed and is more complex, how do the current and future generations are going to deal with this and knowing this how does it help us grow matured with musical knowledge?
to be content and go into the depth of the musical knowledge and knowing the breadth would not hurt them just like you can see the musical ocean, its breadth & depth but we all can drink some but never all the time complain still remaining empty.
I will tell my children that the musical ocean does not belong to anyONe but belongs to All of us..so no can claim ownership on any aspect and if they did it is just their own illusion.
Last edited by narendra on 16 May 2007, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, If we teach music to our kids in a proper manner always reminding them to know the actual meaning of the compositions of the Saints of Music and to lead their lives with content but not with an un-quenching thirst of life and if they also follow it sincerely they will definitely get the required peace in their life. amsharma.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
Sharmaji....
The subject Karnatic music that we still learn, listen and enjoy even today is the effort of so many people in the past.
Generations of composers, teachers & students, performers, authors, writers, etc (many for their lifetime)contributed to its development. Even instrumentalists gave a new dimension to its beauty.
Today we are also exploring the East-West dimension of this music more than in the past.
The subject Karnatic music that we still learn, listen and enjoy even today is the effort of so many people in the past.
Generations of composers, teachers & students, performers, authors, writers, etc (many for their lifetime)contributed to its development. Even instrumentalists gave a new dimension to its beauty.
Today we are also exploring the East-West dimension of this music more than in the past.
Last edited by narendra on 24 May 2007, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, As you wrote from many generations many have been contributing their might for the development of our music. Every coin has two sides and in the same manner, naturally, our music has also two sides of bad and good. Even this bad or good are decided by the various kinds of results obtained and their effect upon the society. In our music, mainly there are two facets and they are 1.performing and 2.teaching which have their abundant influence upon our society. While the performers
influence the society by their efficiency or inefficiency of their singing and their life-style the teachers influence the society by producing efficient or inefficient students. Among them while inefficient performers may not do much harm to the society as they cannot attract much audience and follow up there is every scope of inefficient teachers making every kind of harm to the society by producing impotent disciples who, in turn, help produce only impotent disciples. That is why every care has to be taken while selecting a good teacher. Just like a lady always expects a very good husband everybody wants a good music teacher. A person who knows only singing of Gitas looks like a great stalwart in music to another person who doesn’t know even that. More over, a better way of teaching music has never been established. That is why several thousands of teachers are teaching several thousands of students and, depending upon their fate, a very few of them only or coming up. If this system of teaching music is made result oriented in a time frame many of these teachers will be compelled to disappear from the field within no time. But, all such teachers try their level best not to formulate such a system or, if not, they form an association and try to agitate to get the facility of reservations like the present perennial reservations of our country which is heavily supported by each and every political party only to meet their selfish ends but not at all to save the country from the impotency. But, unless such a result oriented system of teaching our music is evolved, there is every scope of its extinction in near future. That is why since a long time I have been working very hard on these lines and successfully found some easy, innovative and effective methods in teaching our music in a time frame which have been brought in my CD up to some extent. Many of our music teachers may not appreciate this system but I am ready to prove them more effective than the present system either in Vocal teaching or Violin teaching. amsharma.
influence the society by their efficiency or inefficiency of their singing and their life-style the teachers influence the society by producing efficient or inefficient students. Among them while inefficient performers may not do much harm to the society as they cannot attract much audience and follow up there is every scope of inefficient teachers making every kind of harm to the society by producing impotent disciples who, in turn, help produce only impotent disciples. That is why every care has to be taken while selecting a good teacher. Just like a lady always expects a very good husband everybody wants a good music teacher. A person who knows only singing of Gitas looks like a great stalwart in music to another person who doesn’t know even that. More over, a better way of teaching music has never been established. That is why several thousands of teachers are teaching several thousands of students and, depending upon their fate, a very few of them only or coming up. If this system of teaching music is made result oriented in a time frame many of these teachers will be compelled to disappear from the field within no time. But, all such teachers try their level best not to formulate such a system or, if not, they form an association and try to agitate to get the facility of reservations like the present perennial reservations of our country which is heavily supported by each and every political party only to meet their selfish ends but not at all to save the country from the impotency. But, unless such a result oriented system of teaching our music is evolved, there is every scope of its extinction in near future. That is why since a long time I have been working very hard on these lines and successfully found some easy, innovative and effective methods in teaching our music in a time frame which have been brought in my CD up to some extent. Many of our music teachers may not appreciate this system but I am ready to prove them more effective than the present system either in Vocal teaching or Violin teaching. amsharma.
Last edited by msakella on 17 May 2007, 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
You answered my question partially.
I want to know about the East-West musical dimension and its transformation.
Apart from the influence of the North Indian music, how is the Western music influencing our music?
The fusion music, filmi music and so many other styles of music, their influence on our traditional classical style of Karnatic music.
Some musicians that I have known to have done this are - Kunnakudi mixing filmi music, MSG mixing the Hindustani stlye, L Shankar mixing the Western stlye. One thing common among these musicians is all are leading violinists.
And many music studens and teachers living aboard are going to influence our music a lot. They are going to bring new pronunciations...children in USA when they sing, they sing with American accent, etc. We heard the American accent of Karnatic music by John B Higgins. I enjoy his music.
I want to know about the East-West musical dimension and its transformation.
Apart from the influence of the North Indian music, how is the Western music influencing our music?
The fusion music, filmi music and so many other styles of music, their influence on our traditional classical style of Karnatic music.
Some musicians that I have known to have done this are - Kunnakudi mixing filmi music, MSG mixing the Hindustani stlye, L Shankar mixing the Western stlye. One thing common among these musicians is all are leading violinists.
And many music studens and teachers living aboard are going to influence our music a lot. They are going to bring new pronunciations...children in USA when they sing, they sing with American accent, etc. We heard the American accent of Karnatic music by John B Higgins. I enjoy his music.
Last edited by narendra on 24 May 2007, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, There is nothing wrong in adapting good things and just like decorating our house with colourful things, it is also desirable to embellish our music by adapting different good things available in other systems of music. Traditionalists may not agree with us either due to their incapacity to do that or due their un-willingness to do that. Music is the only universal language of the mankind. In fact, every music is enjoyable and I would like to narrate one incident. In 1980, our party consisting of Shri Nedunuri Krishna Murthy, myself and Shri V.Kamalakar rao (Mridangam) were traveling across the country of North America giving music concerts at different places. At one place, which I don’t remember exactly, after the concert around 11-00 p.m. we were traveling by a car and the car owner who was driving the car himself tuned one local radio station and some instrumental music was broadcast at that time. Sitting in the back seat and immersed in listening to that very highly pleasant music, myself and Mr. Kamalakar wept very heavily with emotion for near 5 to 6 mts. and at this juncture, most surprisingly and painfully, one fellow passenger in our car cursed that music and abruptly put the radio off. To tell the truth we have never heard such a pleasant music in our life time and we both felt the same. That is the greatness of the western music. Unless it is used to perform some kind of acrobatics or other, I feel, there is nothing wrong in adapting some phrases of other systems of music also. amsharma.
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shishya
- Posts: 262
- Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 20:02
Narendra,
This is my take on this topic. Carnatic music compositions should adhere to tradition. It is the manodharma where we can take artistic liberties. Having said that, a right balance should be struck as to what percentage of these borrowed styles should be incorporated while singing or playing.
Changing beautiful, well-honed compositions, just for the sake of introducing variety is, in my opinion, not advisable. If you are influenced by other forms of music, manodharma is the place to show off your influences. However, if one were to call a concert 'carnatic concert' it still needs to have enough items that reflects the identity of the name. So, guidelines such as the 80-20 rule may be applied. Taking Sarma garu's analogy, if you were to decorate your house with items from all over the world without a theme in mind, then the result would be clutter. On the other hand, if you have a plan and say decorate the living room or parts of each room to reflect the mood of the room, then the items would decorate your home very well. Similarly, if you just replace everything in your home with a mixed bag of items from various parts of the world then your home ceases to identify you. The secret is in coming up with this right balance. In carnatic music, I think, the balance is very personal to the performing artists, their audience and how the artist relates to his/her audience.
So, to give a short answer to your questions, in my opinion, our predecessor's have done an excellent job of keeping the tradition in tact and in capturing the mood and context of the composers/compositions. There is no need to meddle with them. But for new compositions, yes, go ahead set them in whatever tunes you want, include some harmonies like the westerners do, and make them more appealing for duets and most of all, slowly introduce them to a limited extent into the mainstream carnatic music. Let them be decorations rather than the foundations to your home.
This is my take on this topic. Carnatic music compositions should adhere to tradition. It is the manodharma where we can take artistic liberties. Having said that, a right balance should be struck as to what percentage of these borrowed styles should be incorporated while singing or playing.
Changing beautiful, well-honed compositions, just for the sake of introducing variety is, in my opinion, not advisable. If you are influenced by other forms of music, manodharma is the place to show off your influences. However, if one were to call a concert 'carnatic concert' it still needs to have enough items that reflects the identity of the name. So, guidelines such as the 80-20 rule may be applied. Taking Sarma garu's analogy, if you were to decorate your house with items from all over the world without a theme in mind, then the result would be clutter. On the other hand, if you have a plan and say decorate the living room or parts of each room to reflect the mood of the room, then the items would decorate your home very well. Similarly, if you just replace everything in your home with a mixed bag of items from various parts of the world then your home ceases to identify you. The secret is in coming up with this right balance. In carnatic music, I think, the balance is very personal to the performing artists, their audience and how the artist relates to his/her audience.
So, to give a short answer to your questions, in my opinion, our predecessor's have done an excellent job of keeping the tradition in tact and in capturing the mood and context of the composers/compositions. There is no need to meddle with them. But for new compositions, yes, go ahead set them in whatever tunes you want, include some harmonies like the westerners do, and make them more appealing for duets and most of all, slowly introduce them to a limited extent into the mainstream carnatic music. Let them be decorations rather than the foundations to your home.
Last edited by shishya on 19 May 2007, 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
Shishya...In reality have we deviated from the what we call the traditional side? I have always listened to the old traditional performers and less of the current artists. I have listened to very few fusion, light classical music recordings & online. I am not aware of the what is happening in the Karnatic world in other parts of the world. I also heard that many karnatic performers because of monetary needs are getting into more fusion kind of music.
Last edited by narendra on 24 May 2007, 21:28, edited 1 time in total.
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shishya
- Posts: 262
- Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 20:02
Narendra,
I do not think that all of the current crop of performers are doing fusion and abandoning traditions. Yes, they catch our attention because those who perform fusion get press coverage because of their collabroation. Also, I do not think that money is the primary driver for fusion music. Some people are creative by nature and collaboration with world musicians is an outlet for their creativity.
If you are worried that all of the current crop of performers are compromising traditional carnatic music in favor of light music, film and fusion music, you need not worry. If you look beyond the popular ones there are many performers who adhere to strict tradition. I think carnatic music is in good hands for generations to come. I am not saying that all popular musicians are treading other waters...but I hope you see my point here.
Also, in terms of introducing novelty in carnatic music, maybe it is necessary for CM's survival. I am not talking about radical changes that transform carnatic music to the extent that it loses it's identity, but small incremental changes that might make carnatic music evolve with the rest of the world. I think these are welcome changes that prevent CM from extinction.
Didn't the current form of carnatic music undergo evolution and see what good things it brought us? - a new concert paddhati, women performing mainstream concerts, men accompanying women main artists, all these were part of CM's evolution. Can you imagine not listening to MSS's SrImannArAyaNA? I certainly cannot. Change is not always good nor it is always bad. It is our duty to analyze and decide for ourselves.
I do not think that all of the current crop of performers are doing fusion and abandoning traditions. Yes, they catch our attention because those who perform fusion get press coverage because of their collabroation. Also, I do not think that money is the primary driver for fusion music. Some people are creative by nature and collaboration with world musicians is an outlet for their creativity.
If you are worried that all of the current crop of performers are compromising traditional carnatic music in favor of light music, film and fusion music, you need not worry. If you look beyond the popular ones there are many performers who adhere to strict tradition. I think carnatic music is in good hands for generations to come. I am not saying that all popular musicians are treading other waters...but I hope you see my point here.
Also, in terms of introducing novelty in carnatic music, maybe it is necessary for CM's survival. I am not talking about radical changes that transform carnatic music to the extent that it loses it's identity, but small incremental changes that might make carnatic music evolve with the rest of the world. I think these are welcome changes that prevent CM from extinction.
Didn't the current form of carnatic music undergo evolution and see what good things it brought us? - a new concert paddhati, women performing mainstream concerts, men accompanying women main artists, all these were part of CM's evolution. Can you imagine not listening to MSS's SrImannArAyaNA? I certainly cannot. Change is not always good nor it is always bad. It is our duty to analyze and decide for ourselves.
Last edited by shishya on 19 May 2007, 00:32, edited 1 time in total.
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narendra
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 04 May 2007, 01:57
Sishya..Very true that we have this evolution. But process of involution through music is also important...i.e growth of oneself in the process. When I was in a flute recital, after the concert I asked the artist where was he thinking while performing. He immediately said that he was focussed on the technical aspects of the song. I asked the same question to another leading artist and he replied on the bhavam of the song..i.e expressing the meaning behind the words of the song. Incremental evolution within the scope and involution in the process helps.
Last edited by narendra on 24 May 2007, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, narendra, We are already having some ragas like Kadanakutoohalam and Sooraranjani and also compositions in them resembling western system. Of course, some how I dislike Filmi style as more intoxicative and acrobatic music is reigning it than inspirative music. To tell the fact, I am an admixture of Shri M.S.Gopalakrishnan and Shri Nedunuri Krishna Murthy being a follower of the former and the disciple of the later. So, thus, I can sing of play Violin of the traditional Karnataka style and a little of Hindusthani style and also the mixture of both.
But, at this juncture, I would like to ask you some questions. What do you mean about Karnataka style of music or Hindusthani style of music or music itself? What do you say if I tell that while our Karnataka music is ‘Sangati-pradhaana’ Hindusthani music is ‘Svara-pradhaana’ which makes all the difference? How do you define and differenciate the Kampitas or Gamakas of these systems of music. In fact, I feel very painful to ask such questions about the only universal language, MUSIC.
While there are several thousands of varieties of sweets in the world anybody can eat any sweet of his choice among them and nobody questions. In the same manner, in this universal language of MUSIC, every note is the personification of UNIVERSAL MOTHER and anybody can use them as he/she likes and enjoys of his own. I do not understand why some people are so inquisitive of mixing these styles of music.
Once a stalwart of Karnataka music lamented “in my music concerts, if I sing giving importance to Shruti some people are telling it Hindusthani and if I sing giving importance to lyric some people are telling it Light music and, by all this, at last, I am unable to understand in which way I have to sing our Karnataka music?â€
But, at this juncture, I would like to ask you some questions. What do you mean about Karnataka style of music or Hindusthani style of music or music itself? What do you say if I tell that while our Karnataka music is ‘Sangati-pradhaana’ Hindusthani music is ‘Svara-pradhaana’ which makes all the difference? How do you define and differenciate the Kampitas or Gamakas of these systems of music. In fact, I feel very painful to ask such questions about the only universal language, MUSIC.
While there are several thousands of varieties of sweets in the world anybody can eat any sweet of his choice among them and nobody questions. In the same manner, in this universal language of MUSIC, every note is the personification of UNIVERSAL MOTHER and anybody can use them as he/she likes and enjoys of his own. I do not understand why some people are so inquisitive of mixing these styles of music.
Once a stalwart of Karnataka music lamented “in my music concerts, if I sing giving importance to Shruti some people are telling it Hindusthani and if I sing giving importance to lyric some people are telling it Light music and, by all this, at last, I am unable to understand in which way I have to sing our Karnataka music?â€
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Im A Skal Man
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 11 May 2007, 07:12
As someone new to the music, who also really loves it, here are my two cents:
If anything is to survive it needs to ba able to adapt. Even Carnatic music developed from something else. But do changes need to diminish tradition or artistic integrety? I think its great that there are those preserving the old art form, others experimenting with mixing traditions, and still others adding elements of traditional music to popular music and other forms–even if they don't appeal to my own tastes.
If anything is to survive it needs to ba able to adapt. Even Carnatic music developed from something else. But do changes need to diminish tradition or artistic integrety? I think its great that there are those preserving the old art form, others experimenting with mixing traditions, and still others adding elements of traditional music to popular music and other forms–even if they don't appeal to my own tastes.
Last edited by Im A Skal Man on 20 May 2007, 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear brother-member, I’m A Skal Man, Everybody knows that development is an endless process in any aspect and the usage of things by the people will gradually becomes a tradition. In the process of the usage of things changes also intrude depending upon the physical or mental abilities of the followers of the tradition. Even though such intruded changes diminish the tradition or artistic integrity, I feel, that the rational changes needed for either teaching or performing the art made by the experts, with an open mind, will always help only for the development of the art. amsharma.
Last edited by msakella on 20 May 2007, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
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drshrikaanth
- Posts: 4066
- Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01
The deep waters of music, from the Hindu 25/05/2007
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/05/25/stor ... 860600.htmHindu wrote:The deep waters of music
M.V. RAMAKRISHNAN
The materialistic values of today’s world are not compatible with Carnatic music, an art conceived in an orthodox environment.
Fifty years — a half-century — that’s a long time in the context of any human activity! In the case of a traditional performing art like Carnatic music, which has inflexible religious roots stretching back to the distant past and also allows infinite scope for improvisation, that’s a sufficiently long time-span for the enormous social and cultural pressures of the modern techno-secular world to have violently altered the nature of the art and drain ed away its spiritual values.
But when we take stock of the progress of Carnatic music in the past 50 years or so, we find that while there have been many astounding manifestations of change in the whole musical environment and many adverse influences, somehow the tradition still remains substantially as it was in the middle of the 20th century in terms of both form and spirit, and there are no signs at all of any genetic damage done.
Fears and facts
The convulsive changes in modern life caused by unprecedented technological and economic progress in the second half of the 20th century have led to a lot of speculation all over the world about their impact on traditional art and culture.
Carnatic music is a performing art conceived and originally developed in an orthodox spiritual environment, and the increasingly materialistic values of the modern world are not compatible with its vision or manifestation.
Dramatic changes are occurring in the lifestyles of musicians and music-lovers alike. The tradition of master-disciple bonding is fast declining, causing legitimate fears that the spirit and techniques of the traditional art may not be handed down properly to the next generation.
But actually such worrisome factors and even unconventional methods adopted in the production and presentation of Carnatic music have not led to any disastrous consequences as feared.
Brilliant young musicians have shown a tremendous capacity to learn sensitively from recorded music (which is also a result of high technology!). Even spectacular changes in lifestyles have not by and large affected the commitment of musicians and rasikas.
There might be a lot of dents and scratches on the surface, but the core of Carnatic music remains intact and rock-solid.
Many long-time readers of this newspaper will have fond memories of the excellent music criticism written by N.M.Narayanan (alias NMN) those days. He would usually start his concert reviews with a vehement protest against some of the many adverse trends in the Carnatic music scene, but would then go on to shower compliments on an exceptional musician’s performance.
And this happened so regularly that his approach would often seem to be contradictory. But sooner or later you realised that his comments were usually well justified whether he was praising or protesting.
But there were so many exceptions that he could always find something nice to say about a musician’s integrity and excellence!
And with so many sensitive and superior performers in the field, where was the chance of Carnatic music’s collapsing or even declining? How many more were required? Not a single one really, but all the other musicians too had to exist and perform in a competitive environment in order to create a dynamic base for the best to emerge.
Spiritual strength
Carnatic music is like the deep waters of the world’s great rivers. There may be plenty of pollution, but it all gets deposited and embedded at the bottom as silt in the natural course and does not prevent the free flow of relatively pure water above.
But what is the most significant reason for the triumphant progress of Carnatic music in the late 20th century, a period of extreme economic, social and cultural turbulence? The answer, I believe, lies in the inherent harmony between the spirit of the music and the basic moral attitude of the majority of musicians and music-lovers. Carnatic music rests on a rigid religious foundation, and the ultimate source of its monumental strength and vitality is the devotional inspiration radiating from the sacred works of the venerable composers. And fortunately, successive generations of Carnatic musicians and rasikas sentimentally nourished in the worshipful South Indian social and domestic atmosphere tend never to lose their spiritual bearings, no matter what drastic changes materialise in the modern world and in their own outlook, surroundings and lifestyles.
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drshrikaanth
- Posts: 4066
- Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01
The Hindu, Dated 25/05/2007
[quote="Hindu"]The Carnatic Ocean
S. RANGARAJAN
Concept The scope for innovation in music is vast.
Carnatic music owes its stability and steadiness to the sheet-anchor of the Trinity of composers (Tyagaraja, Muthuswami Dikshitar and Syama Sastri), Purandaradasa, Swati Tirunal, and their direct disciples and descendants who were more preceptors than performers.
The lyrics of their kritis and those of some others who followed in their footsteps, mostly in Sanskrit and Telugu, were steeped in religious fervour which inspired a great devotional spirit. While their songs always extol the manifold virtues of devotion to God and His Consort, each kriti also demonstrates the unique and challenging grammar and idiom that governs that particular composition, with a wide parameter for individual variation and excellence.
The works of composers of the last 100 years or less have become part of the standard repertoire of the Carnatic musician, alongside the compositions of the Trinity. These later-day composers, divinely gifted and inspired, had drawn their ideas and themes from the vast and inexhaustible reservoir that is filled with ‘sapta swaras’.
Though sometimes called ‘modern-day composers’ because of their original contemporariness, they are no longer modern in any sense and their works are as classical as those of their ancestors of centuries ago.
Many of their compositions are in Tamil, with the music and structure based and modelled on the lessons learnt from the legacy of the past. It is out of veneration and profound admiration for these compositions that many associations, sabhas and sangams arrange Carnatic music festivals exclusively featuring compositions in Tamil. Almost all singers of several generations have felt that their concerts would be incomplete without some Tamil song.
Liberty and limits
The great singers who were at their peak 50 years ago had learnt music from the descendants of the founders of Carnatic music who, while having a firm hold on tradition, were not austere or narrow-minded or intolerant, and they let flourish different styles of performance of Carnatic music. It is this ability to appreciate and let grow variations that has ensured the sustained growth of Carnatic music.
There are three players in this drama — the composer (guru), the performer (sishya) and the rasika (knowledgeable and sensitive listener). Without a determined unity of purpose on the part of the three actors in this play to serve the higher goals of Carnatic music, the ancient art form would not still possess its attractive magnetic force.
Whether it is a simple teacher and his disciple in an obscure village, or a sophisticated city performer who has enjoyed the benefit of receiving instruction from an erudite, versatile and experienced guru, they have one thing in common — hold on tight to the basics, but of course with variations within the permitted parameters.
The very basis and strength of Carnatic music is the individual performer’s imagination (manodharma). Without this freedom, Carnatic music will become sterile and stereotyped. But the performer and the listener know instinctively up to what extent this liberty can be stretched without underlining the very foundation of the edifice.
They know well that the strength and resilience of Carnatic music are derived mainly from the art form as developed by the classical composers, and that any attempt to alter its basic character will be disastrous, forcing them to fall by the wayside and be overtaken by the traditionalists. When one reads expressions like “the music was pureâ€
[quote="Hindu"]The Carnatic Ocean
S. RANGARAJAN
Concept The scope for innovation in music is vast.
Carnatic music owes its stability and steadiness to the sheet-anchor of the Trinity of composers (Tyagaraja, Muthuswami Dikshitar and Syama Sastri), Purandaradasa, Swati Tirunal, and their direct disciples and descendants who were more preceptors than performers.
The lyrics of their kritis and those of some others who followed in their footsteps, mostly in Sanskrit and Telugu, were steeped in religious fervour which inspired a great devotional spirit. While their songs always extol the manifold virtues of devotion to God and His Consort, each kriti also demonstrates the unique and challenging grammar and idiom that governs that particular composition, with a wide parameter for individual variation and excellence.
The works of composers of the last 100 years or less have become part of the standard repertoire of the Carnatic musician, alongside the compositions of the Trinity. These later-day composers, divinely gifted and inspired, had drawn their ideas and themes from the vast and inexhaustible reservoir that is filled with ‘sapta swaras’.
Though sometimes called ‘modern-day composers’ because of their original contemporariness, they are no longer modern in any sense and their works are as classical as those of their ancestors of centuries ago.
Many of their compositions are in Tamil, with the music and structure based and modelled on the lessons learnt from the legacy of the past. It is out of veneration and profound admiration for these compositions that many associations, sabhas and sangams arrange Carnatic music festivals exclusively featuring compositions in Tamil. Almost all singers of several generations have felt that their concerts would be incomplete without some Tamil song.
Liberty and limits
The great singers who were at their peak 50 years ago had learnt music from the descendants of the founders of Carnatic music who, while having a firm hold on tradition, were not austere or narrow-minded or intolerant, and they let flourish different styles of performance of Carnatic music. It is this ability to appreciate and let grow variations that has ensured the sustained growth of Carnatic music.
There are three players in this drama — the composer (guru), the performer (sishya) and the rasika (knowledgeable and sensitive listener). Without a determined unity of purpose on the part of the three actors in this play to serve the higher goals of Carnatic music, the ancient art form would not still possess its attractive magnetic force.
Whether it is a simple teacher and his disciple in an obscure village, or a sophisticated city performer who has enjoyed the benefit of receiving instruction from an erudite, versatile and experienced guru, they have one thing in common — hold on tight to the basics, but of course with variations within the permitted parameters.
The very basis and strength of Carnatic music is the individual performer’s imagination (manodharma). Without this freedom, Carnatic music will become sterile and stereotyped. But the performer and the listener know instinctively up to what extent this liberty can be stretched without underlining the very foundation of the edifice.
They know well that the strength and resilience of Carnatic music are derived mainly from the art form as developed by the classical composers, and that any attempt to alter its basic character will be disastrous, forcing them to fall by the wayside and be overtaken by the traditionalists. When one reads expressions like “the music was pureâ€
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rshankar
- Posts: 13754
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26
Here is a nice example of current and future generations coming together under modern business principles and organizational skills:
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/05/25/stor ... 750500.htm
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/05/25/stor ... 750500.htm