Yesudas:Enter Guruvayoor Temple

Balachandran · Post by **Balachandran** » 20 Apr 2007, 21:44

Respected visitors,

Our respected Dasettan Sri. Dr.K.J Yesudas, I think he is a real devotee of Sree Guruvayoorappan and the great sishyan of our respected Maha Guru Sri. Chembai Swami, he is now in a contraversi about the entering and worship at Guruvayoor temple in Kerala, He is innocent about the contraversi and such other political situations. One minister of Kerala, send Fax message toGuruvayoor devaswom. to permit Dasettan in the temple Guruvayoor and also a Kacheri. But Dasettan could not any request to the minister or other officials to this matter. But this is a serious discussions about this time. I think his Guru Sri. Chembai swami was the great devotee of Sree Guruvayoorappan and he blessed Dasettan in many times. Music is the only gift from the god, there is no cast or creed.

srinivasasarma · Post by **srinivasasarma** » 23 Apr 2007, 17:37

every temple has certain norms. it is for the authorities todiscus anddecide if they receive request from Shri KJJ.
theymay worry now that if they give permission to shri KJJ, they may be compelled to consider this'' permission ''
as a precedent in some other cases ! rules are laid down by elders with maximum thoughts.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 23 Apr 2007, 21:00

In South India there are temples which are lenient towards admitting people of all faiths (including foreigners) and there are those tradition-bound temples which prohibit non-Hindus from the inner precincts. While it is somewhat disturbing for some of us liberals since we consider there is only one God and He is the same one for all of humanity, one cannot force that attitude on those conservative people. They give an explanation that when foreigners and people of other faiths are allowed inside they do not have the same awe and devotion as those of the Hindu faith and that they might probe the environment to either write about or ciriticize the practices and the faith itself. They have a point there. By that token one is also tempted to ask "is it OK to let any Hindu inside, whether practicing or not, including those rationalists(?) at the fringe ?". Those rationalists are Hindus, by default --aren't they? There is no effort to prevent such folks from entering even if their intent is malicious.

On the other hand Bharathi, though a devout Hindu, wrote poems on Allah and Christ upon request from men belonging to those faiths because he considered himself a universal humanist. A P J Abdul Kalam is a great human being and though born a muslim he is a true universalist. Likewise KJY is truly a multi-denominational religionist and when he sings CM there is no telling that the content sounds different from that delivered by any other CM singer. You get the same oozing of bhakti when you hear him as when you hear others.

Having said all this, we should practice restraint in recommending who should do what. The government passes so many laws but how many obey such laws unless it suits their convenience. Laws or rules are only as good as they appear on the books. The practice has to evolve. Until then it is better not to provoke any religious sentiments against any segment. The person who is denied entry is no lesser in the eyes of God than the one who is allowed. The only thing to guard against is the situation where the movement takes a political and communal turn.

Women in certain age groups were not allowed at the sabarimalai temple. Recently some actress claimed she breached that rule. It created a big furor in Kerala. As for the navaratri mandapam itself, until recently women were not allowed there. It was a tradition. It is changing now. Likewise we have got to wait to change certain hardcore traditions. No need for revolutionary acts since it is not a bread and butter (or better rice and curry) issue.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 24 Apr 2007, 02:28

For a long time, 'lower-caste' Hindus were not allowed inside temples. Govt had to step in to make changes to the state of affairs. So there surely can be a case for active intervention.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 24 Apr 2007, 05:14

A long time back Chembai was to sing in the Guruvayoor temple with Yesudas as back up singer. The temple refused Yesudas entry so Chembai gave his concert just outside the temple.

Here is a related article about the recent controversy: http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/18/stories ... 360400.htm

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 24 Apr 2007, 07:25

To his credit, in a recent press statement , Yesudas has said that he respected the fact that temples and other establishments had several traditions to maintain and that he did not wish to get involved in any political controversy on the subject of temple entry and also that he would enter only institutions that INVITED him voluntarily.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 24 Apr 2007, 11:10

Dear members,I feel it would be more appropriate to recall an incident which took place during May1988, involving our President of India Shri. R.Venkatraman who was requested by temple authorities to remove the upper garments before entering the area earmarked for viewing "Chidambara Rahasyam"at the CHIDAMBARAM NATARAJA TEMPLE.Mr.R.V could not do so purely for security reasons.he subsequebtly prefered to have dharshan from out side the SANCTUM SANCTORAM,and avoided embarrassment to the authorities as well. He , as every one knows, is from an orthodox brahmin family.
The point I want to stress is that there has never been any
communal bias enshrined in our tradition or scriptures.
Even a legal battle had been won by no less a person than Rajaji during 30ies, when a judgement has been passed favouring entry of Harijans in to Hindu Temples. The only condition is that a person should respect the values of a tradition or atleast he should not be advocating hatred towards it,at the same time seeking entry into temples just for theake of deriding the values attached thereto.
And now as an hygenic point of view, It is not advisable for thousands of people throng the SANCTUM SANCTORUM, THAT TOO all at a time and contaminate the whole area, whereby rendering it to be a source of health hazards.

Can anyone even imagine seeking entry in to an OPERATION THEATRE without sportinng the sterilized theatre uniform.!!! Let alone the lay persons ! even the surgeon who who is going to conduct the operation will not be allowed to step in.!!! Too much of a crowd is also not allowed , for the simple reason that over
crowding in side the theatre will also lead to cross=INFECTION, however hygenic the people inside are !!!
Our fore fathers ,were known for their strict adherance to dictums after all !!!and they are all relevant even today.
It is in the above context one should adapt to the balancing act judiciously.Mr.Jesudas desreves kudos for his high sense of diplomacy .and I ,as an ardent devotee of Divine Music, salute his
depth of devotion towards the Hindu Deities particularly Shabhari Saashtaa, and Guruvayur Appan
Let the DIVINE GRACE OF THE lORD PREVAIL UPON the temporarily agitated minds of a few and let there be TRANQUILITY FOR EVER.
RAMARAJ

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Apr 2007, 13:42

What a weird, crazy and utterly meaningless analogy.

prashanthi515 · Post by **prashanthi515** » 24 Apr 2007, 15:44

I fully agree with the views expressed by Vageyakara.and my humble suggession and rerquest to other members is to apply estoppel to this subject before it gets sensitized
Prashanthi

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 24 Apr 2007, 15:56

What if KJY were not as well known as he is? I doubt he would have any trouble walking into the temple. Nor would any Indian Muslim/Christian who is so inclined. What hypocrisy and silliness!

A private person/organization has the right to grant membership/entry at its discretion. The Parsis for example do not permit others into their temples. But although it may be legal, it does reveal a narrow, medieval mindset....and beyond a point, I think there is a public interest issue involved...

I would be happy to pull down each one of those obnoxious signboards that make my bile rise every time I enter a South Indian temple. I'm afraid I can't see God associating himself with such pettiness.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Apr 2007, 16:04

Ah !
How I remember the time my Christian friend took me to a New Year mass.When I was a kid.
In the dim light , as a volunteer passed each one of us I was confounded to see everyone noiselessly put their hand in a bag and take it out .Not being prepared for this , I put my hand in , when my turn came , felt around and noticing that it was a bag with coins, pulled one out for myself.
It was only later that I learnt that I had to put in a coin , noiselessly.Not take one out.I wonder if Christ was smiling at me .

prashanthi515 · Post by **prashanthi515** » 24 Apr 2007, 16:10

Yes Mr.Vijay,You exactly hit the nail at it's head . I personally feel it's a mere attempt of some gullible few to bring to surface again and again, subjects controversial in nature.
Prashanthi

prashanthi515 · Post by **prashanthi515** » 24 Apr 2007, 16:20

Mr.coolkarni,
The idea behind the request to you was to suggest to u that u should make "Noiceless" offerings i.e.oferings in currencies and
not by coins
Prashanthi

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Apr 2007, 17:11

Oh dear.

Both my wife and my previous girlfriend are Indian.

By odd coincidence (it is a religion I have little time for!) they are also both Christian.

But, being patently of Indian origin, they would not be challenged in any way trying to enter any temple that has been spoken of (assuming their dress not to give them away).

But I would.

Its down to skin colour, I'm afraid, and no talk of operating theatres or even claims of privacy can hide that. Most people call that racism.

Sorry. This is a bait I always find hard to resist, and that is my say over and done with.

Thank you, Vijay, for your warm and reasonable view.

Back to music now?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Apr 2007, 21:36

Nick,
It is not a skin color issue--nor is it skin deep. Yes, you have said it: back to music (which has the capacity to open up hearts as well as doors). Only, do all of us who listen to music or go to temples to listen to music, also listen to the message that all men are created equal?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Apr 2007, 21:54

I have heard that no nonmuslim was allowed near kaaba at Mecca under penalty of death! it was said that they ued to check whether a person was circumcised (though jews undergo it too!) before letting them in. Is there any truth in that statement?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Apr 2007, 22:20

What about nonmuslim women? Do they have a means to check them too? Even if there is, it is not universal though.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Apr 2007, 22:43

Only, do all of us who listen to music or go to temples to listen to music,

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ajgzwv

Two years ago , we entered a Place of worship called Krishna Gana Sabha and Ajoy Chakraborthy took us through Temple,Church,and Masjid , with this wonderful interpretation of Sindhu Bhairavi !!

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 24 Apr 2007, 22:54

This is very much an issue of power, privilege, and, yes, racism. Mine is a feeble voice, but it is with those calling for the abolition of such discriminatory practices.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Apr 2007, 23:59

sub

i thought muslim women were not given access to kaaba!

Thanks coolkarni !
it was a joy

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Apr 2007, 04:30

Nick

There was a nineteenth century story of a powerful British official who having heard about the powers of GuruvAyUrappan wanted to get in and have a look at. Of course it was resisted by the resident priests but they were powerless. The official did get in and saw the idol and then exclaimed:
" what ****** nonsense these Hindoos are making such a fuss about! That was just the image of a naked little lad"

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Apr 2007, 07:36

vijay wrote:I would be happy to pull down each one of those obnoxious signboards that make my bile rise every time I enter a South Indian temple. I'm afraid I can't see God associating himself with such pettiness.

nick H wrote:But I would.
Its down to skin colour, I'm afraid, and no talk of operating theatres or even claims of privacy can hide that. Most people call that racism.

Vijay,
It is not just an issue with SI temples. It is an issue with all temples in India, South or North.
Nick,
Radnor Guy in his article for Sangeetham on the making of the movie Meera states that Ellis Dugan the diirector had to disguised as a kashmIrI panDiT to enter the temple to shoot some scenes! So, maybe you could try that as well!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Apr 2007, 07:49

and then exclaim: what ******nonsense these 'hindoos' (I love the antiquated spelling!) are making a fuss about?!! Nick, I cannot imagine an almost dyed in the wool mylaporean like you--though a recent suburbanite--jumping out of the footage of 'A passage to India'.

prashanthi515 · Post by **prashanthi515** » 25 Apr 2007, 08:01

Dear rasikas,
The proverbial "PANDORA'S BOX" , THOUGH INTENTIONALLY OR INADVERTANTLY, has been opened, and it is for NickH to suggest some remedial measures to protect ouraelves from the unabated sting that followed after the aggrevating views posted by him. My humble suggession is to put a full stop atleast now.
prashanthi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Apr 2007, 08:02

?????

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 25 Apr 2007, 08:49

Hallo prashanthi, Did'nt u notice that NiCk H himself has already prescribed a remedy- "BACK TO MUSIC".I endorse this in toto.
ramaraj

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Apr 2007, 09:37

"BACK TO MUSIC".
Hooray !!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rcpt0o
Theliyaleru Rama-Jesudas

http://www.sendspace.com/file/pkje2q
Gnana Margam-Shivranjini-Jesudas

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 25 Apr 2007, 11:27

Somehow I did not like the way Jesudas sings 'nagumOmu' - Abheri in a veera Bhava - Is it just to titillate the audience? I consider it to be the duty of Musicians of the calibre of Jesudas to rise above populist approach and educate the audience as to what is correct.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 25 Apr 2007, 18:32

Vigvidanji,As far as I know, (1)Abheri with Chathusruti Deivatam(being a rakti swara)will defenitely add to the Veerabhavam, because there is already another Rakti Swaram ( chatusruti RI) in avarohanam (2).Added to this , is the presentation of kriti in the Melkaalam.Since the Kartha ragam (KaraharaPriya)-is also a Rakthi ragam. Abheri of olden days and even Nagumomu of yester years used to have been presented with Sudha Deivatam Another(Eg). Kandaa vandaruL of P.N.Sivan-.Abheri with Sudhadeivatam. Even Ninnu vina marigalada(in riti gauLai used to be sung in Abheri of yester-years !!(ref:Mudikondan School studentsl)Due to evolutionery changes (Karnataka deva gandhari/and Bhimplas have come to stay and both Abheri & K.Devagandhari have been accepted to be of one and the same identity, since the rakthi Bhava has prevailed for reasons best known to discerning rasikas.
Ramaraj

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 26 Apr 2007, 04:14

Related news - http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14437885
"No VIP treatment for actors at Tirumala"

Hope they actually do what they say.

Now if only people realize god exists everywhere, hence stop crowding their way into the temple in question...