WTB Arunachala Kavi's Book

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 11 Apr 2007, 08:25

I want to buy the Arunachala Kavirayar's Rama Nataka Keerthanam book online. Can someone point me to the publisher and online book shops that sell this book? Thank you.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 13 Apr 2007, 20:01

You can search this website:
http://www.carnaticbooks.com/bookstore.asp
or email them at:
[email protected]

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 14 Apr 2007, 22:25

Lakshman sir, Thank you. I will look into this.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 14 Apr 2007, 23:12

If you are looking for specific kritis, please ask.

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 16 Apr 2007, 07:14

Mr. Lakshman: Could you please provide the complete lyrics of "yArO ivar yArO" in bhairavi. The book I got from Karnatik book store does NOT provide all the charaNams; does only the few that are usually sung in concerts ! I do remember the discussion we had in Sangeetham.com, wherein I had pointed out the last charaNam as THE INDICATOR of the singer as SItA and NOT rAmA as many assumed. I had not saved the lyrics. Thank you in advance. S.R.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 16 Apr 2007, 20:55

Oh, my! I thought we settled that long ago that the song was sung by rAma and NOT sitA based on the AP and C1 that are not sung by any (wherein AK mentions the "paNNIp padittARpOl iru stanamum" that only rAma can say about sItA and not vice verse). Anyway let Lakshman post the lyrics again and we can have a go at it again!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:13

The viruttam preceding this song is as follows:
rAman sItaiyaik-kaNDu aiyural

iDamAm vishvAmittiran inda sEdi uraikka lakSmaNanuDanE naDandu mithilaiyirp-pOi oru mAmaNi mEDaiyil sItai maDavAL kANat-tanai anda mayilait-tAnum raghurAman kaDal vAivaru shentiruvenevE kaNDAn. viraham koNDAnE

yArO ivar yArO. rAgA: sAvEri. Adi tALA.

P: yArO ivar yArO enna pErO ariyEnE
A: kArulAvum shIrulAvum mithilaiyil kannimADam tannil munnE ninravar
C1: paNNip-padittArp-pOl iru sthanamum kUDa pAngiyargaL innamum duraittanamum
eNNattAlum vaNNattAlum pangayap-peNNaip-pOl kaNNirk-kANum mangaiyar
2: bhAgyam enbadivar darishanamE adingE phalittenna puNNiyamO manamE mUkkum
muzhiyum dhIrgamAi innamum peNgaL pArkkap-pArkka nOkkam koLlumO kaNgaL
3: candra bimba mukha malarAlE ennai tAnE pArkkirAr orukkAlE
anda nALil tondam pOlE urugirAr inda nALil vandu sEvai tagugirAr

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:16

Yes, mahakavi, I stand corrected. Now I do remember that I had used the same chaNam that you mention to decide that it was rAmA and not sIta who sang the verse. I guess old age is getting to ruin my memory ! That is why I had requested Mr. Laksman for the lyrics. This time, I will save the lyrics when Lakshman provides tham. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:21

>>rAman sItaiyaik-kaNDu aiyural<<

There you go! That is the clincher. Again in C1 and C2 the indications are there that it is about sItA. "stanam', "pangayap peN" etc. Also in C3 "candra bimba muga malrAlE" description is normally reserved to describe women rather than men.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:25

Sundara Rajan:
Nice to see you here again after a long spell. My post crossed yours.
You can visit the following URL for a write-up on this song.
http://www.chennaionline.com/music/Tham ... song26.asp

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 16 Apr 2007, 21:49

Thank you Mr. Lakshman for the lyrics. Thank you Dr.Subramanian for referring to your nice write up on the composition.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 16 Apr 2007, 22:47

It is natural to get the confusion since we are used to the word "ivar" to refer to a man by a woman rather than the other way. I guess AK deliberately used that word (rather than "ivaL") to show respect to the female gender (although rAma was much older than sItA) especially knowing the divine attributes of sItA.

I wish some singers would at least sing C2 which is rich in meaning (if not C1 which may make the female singer blush while rendering it).

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Apr 2007, 00:39

Lakshman wrote:The viruttam preceding this song is as follows:
rAman sItaiyaik-kaNDu aiyural

iDamAm vishvAmittiran inda sEdi uraikka lakSmaNanuDanE naDandu mithilaiyirp-pOi oru mAmaNi mEDaiyil sItai maDavAL kANat-tanai anda mayilait-tAnum raghurAman kaDal vAivaru shentiruvenevE kaNDAn. viraham koNDAnE

I have a question here. The viruutam says, "sItai maDavAL kANat tanai anda mayilait tAnun raghurAman kaDal vAivaru sentiruvenavE kaNDAN". Here it is clearly stated that both are looking at each other (Unless Iam misinterpreting). And I feel the song that follows is also describing a two-way process. The first caraNa is without a doubt rAma's observation of sIta. the 2nd caraNa seems to be sIta's observation of rAma (innamum peNgaL pARkkappArka nOkkam koLLumO kaNgaL). The 3rd stanza apllies equally to both and is a mutual feeling. Any thoughts?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 17 Apr 2007, 01:44

drs:
>>rAman sItaiyaik-kaNDu aiyural<<

The premise for the whole song is stated as above. aiyural is suspecting (sandEhappaDudal)--who is this? Yes, as rAma is walking along and sees sItA in front of the kannimADam both are looking at each other as noted in kamban's famous verse too. Here at the end of the prose, the line is "viraham koNDAnE" (separation distress). Since the verse follows that description it has to be all-rAma affair in the singing part.

C2 and C3 can be interpreted as applicable to either one, I agree. However, unless AK premises that C2 with "sItai aiyural", I would still attribute both C2 and C3 to rAma. Yes there are girls who look at another ravishingly beautiful girl and are captivated. I am yet to come across a man's face to be described as moon-like. Sivan's song "vadanamE candra bimbhamO" is by a man to woman.

That is my take.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Apr 2007, 01:56

I see what you say.

mahakavi wrote:I am yet to come across a man's face to be described as moon-like. Sivan's song "vadanamE candra bimbhamO" is by a man to woman.

That is my take.

There are lots of references to males being described as moon-faced. Not in the least uncommon or odd . A couple I give below.

tyAgarAja describes rAma as tArakAdhipAnana in the kamAc kRti- sujanajIvana.

candravadanan gOpAlakRShna in Papanasam Sivan's sAmikku sari evarE in kEdAragauLa

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Apr 2007, 02:37

Other instances of moon-faced rAma occurs in rAkA sSaSivadana inta parAkA in Takka , sashivadana bhaktajanAvana in chandrajyOti etc

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Apr 2007, 02:46

O yes Ramakriya. There are several more. I only quoted 2 for sample

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 17 Apr 2007, 05:39

Let us see if you have an example of a woman calling a man moon-faced--either a woman composer or a maiden in a song describing a man moon-faced. Does ambujam krishna describe Krishna in such terms? Forget the ezhil vadanam and similar stuff.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Apr 2007, 08:30

mahakavi,
Two things:
In my view, it wasn't as if AK used bahu vachanA for sItA to show his respect. They are rAmA's words. In ancient times--why, even today in some instances--men call women as nIngaL, Ap (hindi) and so on.
'muzhu madi mugam thavazh muRuval kaNDEn' is a line from my song 'murugA, unai ninaindEn'. I cannot think of any other at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if the other AK (Ambujam Krishna) has also used 'moon face' for rAmA or krishNA...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 18 Apr 2007, 18:21

Not to beat a dead horse (or setta pAmbai aDikkaradu--if you prefer--I know both of the expressions are bad but still...). another line of proof (if at all needed) that it is rAma who is singing is this line:

>>kannimADam tannil munnE ninravar yArO<<

the person who is standing at the front on the balcony (of the gynecium). Usually the lead girl is at the front of a group of girls (as in the movies that we see now with the heroine wearing a different sari (if at all!) while all others wear the same uniform.

OK, that was easy!

Now a quiz on another aruNAcala kavi's (hindOLam) song, "rAmanukku mannan muDi"
(a)What would be title for the song that AK would have given for this if he didn't do so already? Also (b) who is uttering and who is the recipient?

Lakshman:
Please do not post the lyrics yet until we have the answers. You may do so after 24 hours.

meena:
If you are the first person to answer this quiz correctly I have decided to confer the title "tamizh isai rasigapriyA" தமிழ் இசை ரசிகப்ரியா on you.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Apr 2007, 23:06

O maRupaDiyum vEdALam murunamaram EriDuccu (Perhaps a bad expression but--)

You are free to look up Ambujam kRShna or anyone's lyrics to satisfy your curiosity.

>>kannimADam tannil munnE ninRavar<<

It is sad you do not see the alternate interpretation. kannimADam tannil munnE- "in the anterior part of the balcony".

meena · Post by **meena** » 18 Apr 2007, 23:28

rAmanukku mannan. rAgA: hindOLam. aTa cApu tALA.

P: rAmanukku mannan muDi tarittAlE nanmaiyuNDorukkAlE
A: pAmaramE unakkennaDi pEccE pazham nazhuvip-pAlil vizhunArp-pOlAccE
C1: inda vArtai shonnAi enakkevar nEraDi brahmAdiyargaLum varuvAraDi iduvE nalla shIraDi vAyADAdE pAraDi AraDi enakku sari
2: parashurAman garvam tIrttavaNDi nammai ellAm kAttavanDi paTTam kaTTa nAlu pEril mUttavanDi avanDi en kaNamaNi
3: bharatan paTTam kaTTAviTTAl naTTiyO avan sharkkaraik-kaTTiyO en piLLai rAma eTTiyO nAn tAnenna maTTiyO veTTip-pODuvEn unnai

meena:
If you are the first person to answer this quiz correctly I have decided to confer the title "tamizh isai rasigapriyA" தமிழ் இசை ரசிகப்ரியா on you.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Apr 2007, 00:35

Sub

Now when is your award ceremony

Will you be also asking meena to sing in Tamizh!
Ce sera un Ã©vÃ©nement stellaire pour le forum

meena · Post by **meena** » 19 Apr 2007, 00:51

hee hee yeah it will be a stellar event.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:13

drshrikaanth wrote:>>kannimADam tannil munnE ninRavar<<

It is sad you do not see the alternate interpretation. kannimADam tannil munnE- "in the anterior part of the balcony".

Really!! The vEdALam will climb up the murungai maram until it hears the RIGHT answer from the respondent. So you see what happened....

munnE. It means "front " as in "munnE vandu nI ADaDi..." in vanjcikkOTTai vAlibhan song. What is the difference between "anterior" and "front"?

tannil means "in". The phase is so simple it escapes me as to how some strange meaning can be deduced for it!

It does not refer to rAma who is on the street by any means.

gee, how many times I should point out? The title is, "sItaiyaik kaNDu rAman aiyural" QED!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:21

mahakavi wrote:gee, how many times I should point out? The title is, "sItaiyaik kaNDu rAman aiyural" QED!

But who actually asked you to point out so many times hopping around like a cat on a hot-tinn roof? GEE

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:22

meena:
I know you guessed it right! But you always protested that your Thamizh knowledge is sparse and that you were not up to it. Now come out and give a title to that song and mention the two names in balck and white. Until then the award will be held back!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:24

drshrikaanth wrote:
mahakavi wrote:gee, how many times I should point out? The title is, "sItaiyaik kaNDu rAman aiyural" QED!
But who actually asked you to point out so many times hopping around like a cat on a hot-tinned roof? GEE

It is because I can't drill it enough into the ....heads of some recalcitrant and doubting folks who keep arguing against the obvious. One should know how to exit gracefully!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:28

mahakavi wrote:It is because I can't drill it enough into the ....heads of some recalcitrant and doubting folks who keep arguing against the obvious.

But who is arguing here? Jeez. You are doing it all on your own as if someone contradicted you again.

One should know how to exit gracefully!

Hah! Nice. Look who is talking. Who is arguing about candravadana of a male? To quote your own words, do you need a thousand angels to dance on a pinhead to be convinced? Looks like you are back to your sangeetham days antics.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:40

Hey, me doing the antics? Who is claiming here to be a pluripotent multilinguist?

Who is saying C3 can be taken to mean both genders--despite the evidence presented earlier that the whole song is about sitA. My what a haughty stand!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 01:58

Post # 13 is irrelevant after all.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:01

mahakavi wrote:Now a quiz on another aruNAcala kavi's (hindOLam) song, "rAmanukku mannan muDi"
(a)What would be title for the song that AK would have given for this if he didn't do so already? Also (b) who is uttering and who is the recipient?

Mahakavi, Here are my guesses:

(a) dayaratan kopattAn pulambal (???) - What I want to say it the rants of an angry daSaratA.
(b) dayaratan pEsu girAn - kaikEyi kETkirAL.

BTW which is #13? It says DRS.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:10

sorry, ksrimech.
Take another guess.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:12

Second of three guess I will take
(a) kaikEyI rAmanadu perumaiyai paRRi uraittal
(b) kaikEyi to mantrA (kUni)?

If this is also wrong, then please give us a clue as to which kANDam it pertains to.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:31

OK, you got it.

My own title for that song is "kaikEyi kUniyaic cADudal" (kaikEyi chiding kUni)

When kUni came up to kaikEyi with the news of rAma's yuvarAjA conferment and coerces her to nullify that, kaikEyi retorts, extols rAma's virtue and supports rAma's coronation as yuvarAjA.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:47

yAy! I'm right for the second time in two weeks. :-h

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Apr 2007, 08:33

ksrimech,
KaikEyi kUniyaikk kaDinduraidal (kaikEyi admonishing kUni) is what the words convey. I hope a few vocalists get to see this post. I see it in concert lists nowadays. Hope they pay attention to sAhityA...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:37

P: rAmanukku mannan muDi tarittAlE nanmaiyuNDorukkAlE
A: pAmaramE unakkennaDi pEccU pazham nazhuvip-pAlil vizhundArp-pOlAccE
C1: inda vArttai shonnAi enakkevar nEraDi brahmAdiyargaLum varuvAraDi iduvE nalla shIraDi vAyADAdE pAraDi AraDi enakku sari
2: parashurAman garvam tIrttavaNDi nammai ellAm kAttavanDi paTTam kaTTa ERRavanDi nAlu pEril mUttavanDi avanDi en kaNmaNi
3: bharatan paTTam kaTTAviTTAl naTTiyO avan sharkkaraik-kaTTiyO en piLLai rAman eTTiyO nAn tAnenna maTTiyO veTTip-pODuvEn unnai

I made a few needed corrections in the text (bolded them). This song shows how much kaikEyi loves rAman (she literally raised him under her care and rightfully calls him her son) and that she does not care about bharatan getting the crown. This is in sharp contrast to the character of kaikEyi with which we are all familiar--that she is a vicious witch and but for her rAman and sItai would have had no problem whatsoever and that Ayodhya would have been one heck of a paradise for everybody. But in the divine design kaikEyi was the principal force for the whole episode. But for her rAman would not have gone to the forest with sItai, rAvaNan would not have abducted her leading to his eventual destruction--which was the divine design.

In my book kaikEyi was a noble soul but used as the critical pawn in the divine chess game. Too bad she had to carry the "scarlet" letter "K" for time immemorial. In the mean time this song has to be relished as to what her true character is.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:58

mahakavi wrote:This song shows how much kaikEyi loves rAman (she literally raised him under her care and rightfully calls him her son) and that she does not care about bharatan getting the crown. This is in sharp contrast to the character of kaikEyi with which we are all familiar--that she is a vicious witch and but for her rAman and sItai would have had no problem whatsoever and that Ayodhya would have been one heck of a paradise for everybody.

This interpretation is taken from pratimA nATAka I think. IIRC, in this play, Kaikeyi says 14 years by a slip of tongue while she actally wanted to say was 14 days.

-Ramakriya

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:13

This episode is open to so many interpretations!
But for posterity, she will be the one who asks rAm to leave - she only asks for him to leave - the others follow him:
tulsIdAs in the delightful 'kahAn sE padhEr' bhajan has rAm explaining to the curious grAmvAsI that they have given up their palatial residence after 'mAtA ki vacan suni' - not 'pitA kA A~gnyA'!

Here are a couple of delightful verse from Mythili Sharan Gupt's 'pancvaTI prasang' on the reason why lakSmaN follows rAm:

pUjya pitA kE sahaj saty par
vAr sudhAm dhara dhan kO
un ke bhI pIchE sItA calI gahan vankO
unkE bhI pIchE lakSmaN thE
pUchA rAm ki tum kahAn?
vinat vadan sE uttar pAyA,
tum mErE sarvaswa jahAn!

sItA bOlI yeh tO pitA ke A~gnya par
sab chOD calE,
par dEvar tum kyUn tyAgI bankar
ghar sE muh mOD calE?
AryE! barbas banA na dO mujhkO tyAgI
Ary caraN sEvA mein samjhO
mujhkO bhI apna bhAgI

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:30

Yes ramakriya! kaikeyi tells Bharata (after Rama's return)
jAta caturdasha divasA iti vaktukAmayA paryAkula h^RidayayA caturdasha varShANi iti uktam ||
( actually she did it to save dasharata from the curse of the brahmin whose son he had killed mistakenly. And she did it with the full knowledge of vashiShTa and sumantara!)

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:46

ramakriya wrote:This interpretation is taken from pratimA nATAka I think. IIRC, in this play, Kaikeyi says 12 years by a slip of tongue when she actally wanted to say 12 days.

-Ramakriya

Did it really say 12 years instead of 14?
I thought it is commonly known to be 14 years.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:50

cmlover wrote:Yes ramakriya! kaikeyi tells Bharata (after Rama's return)
jAta caturdasha divasA iti vaktukAmayA paryAkula h^RidayayA caturdasha varShANi iti uktam ||
( actually she did it to save dasharata from the curse of the brahmin whose son he had killed mistakenly. And she did it with the full knowledge of vashiShTa and sumantara!)

But she didn't save dasharata. The curse took its toll!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:07

That is the inevitable Fate!
Woman proposes, but Yaman disposes

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 19 Apr 2007, 23:29

....and man perishes???

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:20

mahakavi wrote:
ramakriya wrote:This interpretation is taken from pratimA nATAka I think. IIRC, in this play, Kaikeyi says 12 years by a slip of tongue when she actally wanted to say 12 days.

-Ramakriya
Did it really say 12 years instead of 14?
I thought it is commonly known to be 14 years.

That was slip of a keyboard

-Ramakriya

meena · Post by **meena** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:27

That was slip of a keyboard big_smile

hee hee good one!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 01:46

...or perhaps kaikEyi migrated to the mahAbhAratham period and imposed the 12 year exile term on the pANDavAs....

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:24

In his upanyAsam, sEnkAlipuram anantarAma dIkSitar mentions about a dream of dayaratan which he narrates to kaikEyi in kaikEyi's antafpuram. The dream showed that the King of ayOdhyA would die soon but did not know who it was. kaikEyi who loved SrIrAma so much more than bharata did not want SrIrAma to die after he became the King. She did not actually neither bothered about the death of the son who was born out of her own womb nor the death of her husband. All she wanted was SrIrAma should be safe at all times which is exactly like singing pallAnDu to Him.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Apr 2007, 02:48

krimech:
I told you that kaikEyi was a NOBLE soul!