How to get kids to listen to more CM?

Music · Post by **Music** » 16 Mar 2007, 07:23

My friend's teenage daughter in the US learns CM. This kid is a bright, sincere and hard working student of CM and loves to sing CM. What she lacks is listening to CM & that shows in her rendering. We find it hard to get her interested in listening to the music. She can happily listen to hours of WM though. I am sure this not uncommon. That makes me wonder - does CM (or even HM for that matter) not have the appeal to draw everyone towards it? How can we get kids interested in listening to CM? Why are most people easily more drawn towards light music and not classical music?

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 16 Mar 2007, 07:52

Dear member, Music, The western-instrumental music is far more inspirative than any other music in the world. In any language the books containing classical language are very tough to follow and understand and the books containing the colloquial language are more easy to follow and understandable to the common man. Even in music, our South Indian Karnataka Classical music is much harder than any other music in the world. Developing himself in every aspect to live in a posh area is not an ordinary but difficult task than stooping down to the level of living in a slum area. That is why most people are easily attracted towards other musics than Karnataka Classical music. Getting up early in the morning around 4 a.m., performing Yoga and Sandhyavandana along with things like Dhyana etc., are very difficult to maintain regularly and getting up very late in the morning, taking bed-coffee, doing many other things by conveniently postponing even bath up to after-noon until lunch time are vey easy and convenient to maintain. The â€˜brought-upâ€™ of a kid should be planned from the tender age but not later. I have planned to train a small kid of 10 years and, now, at his age of 13 years he is able to give a Classical music concert of 2hrs. This year his father spoke to the authorities of his school (he is studying 9th class) and they have agreed to allow him only for the periodical examinations without attending the regular classes. Thus, he, Chi.J.Shriram, is regularly practicing for more than 5 hours a day. This classical music must be learnt before 15 years of age and much of the time between 4 a.m.and 12 noon must be spent on it. He has been doing like that. How many parents are there to create a congenial atmosphere to learn music and practice it under proper vigil and encourage their kinds in this manner. amsharma.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 08:36

Classical Music -----> Opening a Jack fruit to eat the fruit
All others ------> Opening a Banana to ...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2007, 09:15

Dear sharmaji
Parents want the best for their children! They expect them to be rich and successful. Hence they push them on to studies that are most remunerative like doctors or engineers. If only CM were equally rewarding everyone will flock towards CM training. The fault is ours! We do not reward our maestros. There are many sad stories of their dying in penury. Folks would more readily risk training their kids to be champs in Tennis or Cricket than in CM. How many would send their kids to do veda adhyayanam? It is the least profitable profession and is indeed dying. Olden days scholars and musicians were supported by the Kings and rich landlords. Will it happen today in spite of the discouragement by the Govt itself?

shobanasree · Post by **shobanasree** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:03

memeber music, Why don't you get some jugalbandhi CDs for your friend's daughter which has a combination of carnatic music and wester music? She may like to hear that...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:10

Ah ! Jugabandis ....
No reply yet from Jayaram?
Yet to wake up perhaps

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:13

Parents should listen to more music at home. Especially in the living room.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:36

shripathi_g wrote:Parents should listen to more music at home. Especially in the living room.

precisely. however i wish to add that "Parents should listen to more good music at home. Especially in the living room."

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:37

Most kids don't like CM/HM - I didn't either, when i was young...it's great that she at least likes to sing.

I am not in favour of ramming something down a child's throat - it will just kill whatever interest remains. If the kid really has musical aptitude then curiosity will naturally draw her towards listening to more CM (as in the case of many of our present vidwans ). If not, then CM is probably not the way to go....

It could help if CM is played at home often - as it sub-consciouly did in my case even though I was completely indifferent to it then...

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:44

As the youngest of 5 children, during my childhood and early teens I was heavily influenced by the music which my older brothers and sisters listened to. This happenned to be English rock music and a bit of Hindi Film music, as my siblings grew older and left home I got to hear more Carnatic music as listened to by my parents.

I only started appreciating Carnatic music when I was about 17 years old and then started formally learning it after that.

Raghava Menon grapples with this topic in his book "Indian Music the magic of the raga" (1998). It is a recommened read.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:45

I am not in favour of ramming something down a child's throat

I avoided that mistake.

Now ,at 13,when my son leans on me and wants me to hear and appreciate a OP Nayyar beauty -one ear plug with him and one in my ear- as though he has discovered OP Saab, I know he is on the way to....

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:57

simple!! make it a habit at home to listen to CM/HM, just like how other good habits are cultivated. i feel that everybody has musical sense dormant in them. somehow, it needs to get activated. I developed interest in CM just by listening. HM is not far away with rare BGAK making inroads. thanks to Kji.

For CM appreciation i have two examples:
one dear friend of mine, who had absolutely no idea of CM, no musical b/g, etc. is now an ardent carnatic music listener. this was possible by sheer listening to CM. He had appreciation for CM in him and it got triggered when i asked him to listen to CM regularly. now, he is a big fan of TRS.
another example is my mother: few months ago, when i was listening to MALI (paridAnamiccitE - biLahari) my mother, who was listening from the kitchen exclaimed 'who is this person who is playing so marvelously, with such clarity ?'. now, she can ID a few rAgams and correlates them to songs (film/devotional) that she know. ofcourse, i make her listen to the collection that i have.
For me, the one who becomes an ardent music lover (CM/HM) is truly lucky.

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:02

I think that, in the question here - how to get the child to listen to more CM -
implicit is the fact that the parent already is tuned to CM and is listening to good CM at home - otherwise this question would not have come from the parent.
My daughter's favorite music (she is 7, and learning CM - geetham stage now) are A R Rahman, Harris Jayaraj and the like - good music which I like too.
Kandukonden Kandukonden - a wonderful fusion of CM and western CM, if there was one - she just loves it...
But as soon as I put on SSI's Akhilandeswari, she runs off.
IMHO, it takes some time and maturity to start liking pure CM,
and till then, any good music is welcome.
She will eventually graduate to TVS-->Santhanam-->Balamurali-->SSI/MDR, the same way I did. I should only be worried if if she listens to no music at all.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:32

child is the father of man. if you want to inculcate something you have to do it first. if you do not want them to do certain things you have to stop doing those things.

ram · Post by **ram** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:48

Like Vijay, I am a firm believer in the principle that a child must not be forced into doing something. But what is also true is that at a very young age, a child by itself doesn't usually know what to take up. So if parents want to offer carnatic music as one of the possible avenues to consider, they can probably try the following approach. I have seen this work in the case of a couple of friends of mine (the children have evinced interest and are trying to move up the "listening chain", if I could term it so). I am not saying that this is a formula that will surely work:

1) Play movie songs that have a classical base ... malayalam movie songs help a lot here (hindi and tamil movie songs do work too but then the voice of Jesudas or other front line malayalam film singers belting out numbers that have a classical base is something that generates traction even among the uninitiated)
2) Play classical or semi-classical songs sung by people who have good voices. By good voices, I mean voices that can appeal even to people who do not know about carnatic music. This is where Yesudas, Unnikrishnan and manyof the prominent female singers do the trick. Avoid exposure to ARI, SSI, MDR etc at this stage. It can lead to effects of the opposite kind (There is no intention to degrade any artist's name here. Examples have been provided only as illustration. What I am talking is just about the voice being attractive to a person who doesn't know carnatic music at all.)
3) Keep playing a variety of songs. Slowly switch to the heavier songs rendered in a good voice. For example you can switch from light classical songs of Unnikrishnan to classical pieces rendered in a concert by Unnikrishnan.
4) When the child develops some interest or hums along, if possible, try putting him/her under the tutelage of a good guru.
5) Introduce voices that are not so pleasant to hear so that the child now focuses more on the music/lyrics as such and focuses lesser on the voice. I think this will take some time to happen. May be the child has grown into a teenager by this time.
6) Take the child to concerts whenever possible (don't compel)
7) Introduce the child to past masters .. by this time, if sufficient interest has developed, the child would itself have started hearing about the greatness of past masters and would be yearning to hear their recordings.

If the child/teenager/adult doesn't want to consider carnatic music at all even after all of this, then I think it is better to let him/her pursue what he/she wants to. May be carnatic music starts appealing some years later, as it has done in the case of so many of my friends.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 12:58

Somehow I feel attachment to Classical music depends on ones inclinations to attach oneself to issues of everlasting qualities---Music , Literature, Living values ---rather than those of a fleeting nature.
Did I not admire that gregarious colleague , who was always full of fun , singing Pop music, cracking jokes , adept at mimicry and a thousand other tricks at the party , whereas I stood there with feet of clay ?
One can never argue which is more loveable.Only Life with all that it has to offer, in terms of its Highs and Lows, can offer the right perspective.
There were days when I used to be going through some of the Amir Khan Classics with Tanjore Sankara Iyer (some bits in the clip here) when he would have given a short intermission to his students , to listen to HM and all of a sudden they would rush to TV saying " it is Sapthahiki time " ( a popular Tv capsule for the week show , then )
And the master would lament
"My generation was lucky that it did not have these distractions."

And I would reply by saying that I had my distractions too-
My 10 year old brain excited with these renderings while waiting at the Battani Sabis' shop in my native town , trying to get my Fountain pen filled with 5 naya paise worth of Quink Ink.and thinking ways of hiding the balance 5 Np from my sisters watchful eyes.(I had to save it until next morning for my marbles gambling game )

And he would conclude that there were no simple answers.

But some gentle prodding did help in my case.
"Dont ever complain that I introduced you to this too late.Very soon you will come to a point where you will regret that you have too little time and so much to listen.."
My Dad would warn me.
" I attended concerts in Bangalore at the risk of failing in exams since they always came close to Rama Navami celebrations.I will allow you to fail any exam , if only you can acquire a taste "

But then he was of a different kind.He took me to a movie on the Sunday preceding my SSLC exams (they had just changed to a One week Non stop format and I was a nervous wreck trying to organise my thoughts) to the horror of others at home-saying -"If he has studied throughout the year well , where is the need to be fearful ?"

And what an apt movie that was -North by North west-

The importance of careful and watchful grooming can never be underestimated.
Not simple though.
http://www.badongo.com/file/2479938
As I listen to these again, I can get the smell of that town back.
If only I could be that child again.
Just for a day.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 13:04

rare BGAK making inroads

divakar
In my case it was Amir Khan who made the inroads by giving me the roots.

BGAK gave me the wings.

apasruthi · Post by **apasruthi** » 16 Mar 2007, 13:11

I thought I would post this incident which happened this morning when coming to office. I normally drop my 6 year old daughter to school while coming to office, and on the way always some music is going on in the car cd player. Normally, if my family or daughter is there, we play some Hindi old film songs, and when I travel alone I play CM.

Today morning, when I started, I forgot to change the CD, so it was playing Shri KVN's Utsava prabhandam, which is a very soft viruttam in malayalam by Swati Tirunal about the 10 day festival of Sri Padmanabhaswamy. So I changed it after some time, while driving, when my daughter told me "why r u changing this". I told her, I thought you would like to hear the film songs.

She told me "No, put it back, this thaatha is singing in so soft and sweet voice, and I like it so much". Then I continued playing, and she listened to it the whole way and asked me "where is this thaatha now". I told her, he has gone to God some years back, then she told me " I wish I could see this thaatha and hear him before he went to God...he is so sweet..."

I was touched by her words, and I thought I must share this here...

Apasruthi

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 16 Mar 2007, 13:58

How can we get kids interested in listening to CM? Why are most people easily more drawn towards light music and not classical music?

Let me offer my own personal experience on this. I grew up listening to Malayalam film songs, and used to argue with my parents that Carnatic music is too much of a straitjacket, not allowing one to mix ragas, while film songs allowed us to take these liberties. And that's what made film songs more enjoyable, etc.
And my parents (and my grandfather!) would smile and continue listening to CM. Finally, one day I saw the light...

)
Key is not to force CM on children, let them come to it when it's the right time. Also take interest in what they are listening and don't be too judgmental.
(But stay away from jugalbandis...

)

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 16 Mar 2007, 18:15

I am a firm believer in the catch phrase " catch them young". Although I do not come from a family of musicians, my father was very keen on listening to music. Even to this day, maybe after listening to music for the better part of his 70 year old life, he cannot identify ragas, but that doesn't stop him from enjoying CM. I admit that it was not always the cool thing to listen to- growing up - and more importantly, being in a convent school, I didn't have anybody to discuss it with - in my friends' circle. It was way after undergraduate degree when I started meeting up with friends in the music circle at concerts that we had a chance to talk about the concerts and evaluate them and discuss about them that the fun started to pour in.

In USA now, I have made it a habit for my daughter to listen to music 'prescreened' by me - of course- every night while falling asleep. I have been doing this since the day she was brought home from the hospital as an infant. We started with Hariprasad Chaurasia's flute and now (after 5 years) she can appreciate DKP as long as it is not jaganmohini RTP (I haven't tried that yet on her).

Apart from occassions when I practice or listen to CM, she gets her every night dose of music (MSS, BMK's utsava sampradaya kritis etc) as part of her bedtime routine. I am not claiming that this will make her a genius, but she has already developed a good ear and appreciation for music. I also challenge her to recognize other 'songs' that sound like the one she is currently listening to. Most of the times, she is way off but she gets close to the rasa of the piece being rendered.

Personally, I feel that music appreciation should be an integral part of every class instruction. In the event that parents are uninitiated into CM, a guided approach by teacher will help I guess. Right now with a small number of young students, I give them prescreened concerts to hear in the background while they do homework or better yet, at bedtime.

Suzuki and Yamaha systems of music have perfected this art of developing good ears for music right from initiation - and it have been proven to work. I think it is high time CM teachers start doing it consciously- especially for kids in the US, who do no thave as many opportunities to listen to CM like most in India- atleast in my generation- when we had every morning CM concerts and 1 hr concerts in the night on at least 3 nights as week on the radio. I think parents and teachers in the US have to play the role of the radio. Like so many healthy habits CM is an acquired taste and everybody needs to have patience with it. But I think it ultimately pays off.

On a side note, my husband, who knows nothing about CM is happy with the fact that my daughter gets to listen to MSS's srimannarayana, sing along with it, and fall asleep singing the praise of the Lord. To each his own.

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 16 Mar 2007, 19:07

Ram,

Although I agree with several of the sentiments here, I disagree with the notion that children are not ready for carnatic music, and hence need to be subjected to light music of the Yesudas/Unnikrishnan type. As Chalanata said, child is the father of man, and many many times in my life, I have witnessed children come up with truly profound insights. It is the exposure that counts, and as apasruthi mentioned..KVN is a great, great start for children...recently, for my nephew, at 8 years was learning the Abogi Varnam, my cousin played the varnam sung by GNB, SSI, Yesudas and several other singers...and he could appreciate the methodology of singing a varnam...he started by smiling sheepishly when he recognized that the swara patterns being sung in quickfire GNB style were actually the same as what his teacher was singing, and after a couple of hearings quickly regimented his thought process to understand the nuances....he now sings it beautifully. Hence, as long as confidence is shown in children, and their learning process is given room to be derivative, I am sure in due time, they will develop appreciation for it. Finally, like Chalanata again said, listening to carnatic music in the living room definitely helps...it is a Kelvi-Gnaanam! The late doyen Muktha learned carnatic music just by listening to what was taught to Brinda....

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 16 Mar 2007, 19:20

How do u teach kids to read? How do kids learn math? How do they eventually become good at it? History has proved that the best readers started by reading newspapers...recognizing the word patterns, and slowly assimilating things in their mind to finally be able to read full-length articles...its a "voila" stage, and I feel music follows the same path as reading....whether it is carnatic or western. Kids enjoy western music because they r more familiar with it these days....and they dont instantly appreciate carnatic msuic, fundamentally because it is unfamiliar to them...which is why I abhor tv channels out there, they do everything to systemiZE and pre-condition kids by presenting that film music/western music/fusion music is the music of choice.....

rajeeram · Post by **rajeeram** » 16 Mar 2007, 20:50

Everyone has a story behind their own evolution as a rasika. For a lucky few, they can not remember a time when they weren't a rasika. But most of us have had a turning point. I, for one, hated to go to music class though my mother persevered with me. My guru used to take us to concerts in the Swathi Thirunal Sabha in Trivandrum. Two or three years into this, around the time I was 10 or 11, I heard a Nellai Krishnamurthy concert where he started off with a Saurashtram (Sri Ganapathini). I don't know what exactly was it, but I clearly remember the song making a deep impact. For the first time, I thoroughly enjoyed the song and felt like there is some 'weight' in singing the way he did. This event has stayed with me as the turning point at which I truly became a rasika. And today I cannot breathe without Carnatic Music. I keep wondering had my mother not persisted with me whether I would have gone from having dislike and indifference to Carnatic music to being the ardent fan that I am today. So coming to point of children, I do think parents need to persevere with children for a couple of years with any art, since all it takes in one kriti, one sangathi in a krithi, one turn of phrase in a raga alapana to turn on the switch. Gentle prodding, I would say. Easier said than done.

I have had a very similar experience to that of Shishya's as regards to my son. From day one, my 4-year old son has slept to the melodies of MSS, TNS, KVN etc. Around two, he started 'choosing' the tape we play at bedtime. Either he would point at MS patti's tape or Seshu mama's tape or the Bhajan casette made by Atlanta Sri.Mani. And I have noticed that when we start a CD he invariably enjoys the second part of it more, the thukkadas and thillana and such. But gradually he starts enjoying the weighty krithis in the first half also. He loves the KVN CD of Swati Thirunal kritis, especially the huseni song, Pahimam bruhannayike. He calls it the 'Sri Bale' song. One should see how that line, that starts off with just KVN's voice sans the instruments, lights up his eyes. So I see him evolving as a rasika too. He loves MS Patti's Bhavayami Gopalabalam as much as TNS's Annalum Nokkinal Avalum Nokkinal. Yes, he sometimes requests for the Crayola CD or A.R.Rahman CD when I am playing Sanjay's Kamalamba kriti in Sahana. And I completely understand:) He also digs the T.H. Subhashchandran clips on Youtube. I catch him going 'Takadimi Takajonu' once in a while:) The trick is making listening fun. For my son, getting to use my laptop to listen to music is a definite impetus. He gets to start the clip on Youtube.

And my expectation is not that he will become a performer by being exposed to Carnatic Music. Rather I hope it will stay with him as it has stayed with me as one of my prime support systems while I navigate the vagaries of life. And I thank my mother everyday for having pushed me.

Sorry, I got carried away:)

Best Regards
Rajee

P.S. rasikas.org has started becoming an indispensable part of my life too, thought I am mostly a silent rasika:)

Ashwin · Post by **Ashwin** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:04

My $0.02...

We hear a lot that we shouldn't force young kids into music, but I disagree. Young kids, and very often their parents, dont know what they like or dislike until they have tried it. That being said, kids will tend to dislike anything that involves a great deal of dedication or discipline, because these are demanding qualities that appear to them to limit their sense of freedom. So from where does the interest ultimately come? It comes gradually through passive reinforcement, e.g. when they have learned a song, then hear it sung at a concert, and then make the connection on their own; or through a sense of competition, e.g. when they see a fellow student being rewarded for a good performance. The more songs they are forced to learn, the greater the chance they will develop interest on their own, and the more peers they have to compete with, the more motivation they will have to continue learning. Of course, it is at this stage that a child's own interest/aptitude in the subject will become apparent - after having initially been forced, and then given the chance to develop a sense of appreciation on their own, a lack of interest/motivation or evidence of declining interest/motivation probably suggests that CM/HM is not for him/her. It seems to be a sensitive process that has to be handled just right by the parents.

Ashwin

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:19

This is what my friend asks me if I say I don't want force something on the kid that he/she does not like. He says "The kids do not like to go to school. So do you stop them from going to school?"

I think some amount of compulsion is required from parents especially in the initial stages of learning. And I think once the kids have come to a certain level, depending on their aptitude and talent the kid will either take more active interest or show indifference. That is the stage at which the decision needs to taken whether to continue or not. I know of music teacher's kids, not being very interested in learning, even though they have been taught compulsorily and of course would be exposed to CM all the time!

ram · Post by **ram** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:25

mahesh33,

I think I didn't write clearly. I didn't mean to say that one should always start from step no. 1) (film music) in my earlier post. It all depends on how much receptive the child is to CM. The more receptive the child, the lesser the number of steps to get it involved.

Ashwin · Post by **Ashwin** » 16 Mar 2007, 22:00

sramaswamy wrote:I know of music teacher's kids, not being very interested in learning, even though they have been taught compulsorily and of course would be exposed to CM all the time!

Reminds me of the true stories of many gourmet chefs, whose constant exposure to the aromas of the world's finest foods leaves them disgusted and, at the end of the day, with an appetite only for fast food...

Ashwin

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 16 Mar 2007, 22:04

'vadhyar pillai makku; vaidhyan pillai seekku'!

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 16 Mar 2007, 22:05

too much of a good thing syndrome ?:(

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 16 Mar 2007, 22:07

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 17 Mar 2007, 00:49

I think the easiest start is to start to listen to simpler lighter carnatic pieces, with pleasant tunes (thillanas, javalis, raghu vamsa sudha) to get kids to begin to understand. simply put, if you ask a child to listen to SSI, he/she may not find it interesting as we do...but put on some vara raga by ramani, and they may feel different. parents must cultivate the interest of children rather than just force them to listen to whatever the parents must like, and understand that their interests at such a young age will not be to listen to the O rangashai that we find so appealing.

rasam · Post by **rasam** » 17 Mar 2007, 01:53

Here's a strategy from my own experience which might help: make raga identification a sort of game to interest children ... the reason I started to listen to CM was that everyone around me in my family appeared much 'smarter' than me because they could identify ragas and I felt really bad about this. This got infinitely worse when I met a friend who was also adept at identifying ragas, which made me feel as if I were some sort of a 'black sheep' representative of my family.

A piece of warning though ... there is no 'end' to this game! Even after years and years of listening you still sometimes come across some 4-note ragas which you dont know

(I couldn't resist the dig at Balamurali)

Of course, initially some instrumental music might help with getting them to even listen to CM rather than playing SSI or MDR.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2007, 01:56

Peer pressure and peer influenes have a large role to play in what music kids listen to. A role model inside or outside the home who listens to CM would provide some counter weight.

Looking at an equivalent situation, the % of kids who play in western classical music bands in school who listen to western classical music is not very high.

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 17 Mar 2007, 02:00

I was not musically inclined till I was 17..... and then fate intervened.

http://karnatikrunner.wordpress.com/200 ... l-started/

http://karnatikrunner.wordpress.com/200 ... ed-part-2/

rasam · Post by **rasam** » 17 Mar 2007, 02:14

A role model inside or outside the home who listens to CM would provide some counter weight.

Not really! Atleast, not in my case. My mom is one of those mamis you see in a concert who will look down upon you as if you were some sort of retard if you couldn't tell a panthuvarali from a poorvikalyani. I remember she used to tell me: "IddithOnE chollanon" (you should be able to tell it as soon as he takes it up) and I used to wonder if I was an adopted kid or something

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 17 Mar 2007, 02:42

This first post seems to me as "how to get kids outside India to listen to CM. But it actually took the course in general how to get them interested anywhere.

While growing up in HYd there was not much CM around except for tiny bit on the radio/casettes/TV and from my Mom (who was shy to sing). Concerts took place mostly in Sec' bad not convenient for the whole family to go.

It was actually my jealousy towards my Madras cousins who could sing CM during our visits that drove me crazy and an yearning to learn. Once I found a teacher I spared no time in learning as much as possible though it lasted only 3 years.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2007, 03:19

My use of the word 'role model' was a bit loose and it includes the situation like Suji's madras cousins. Something that the kid can relate to and want to emulate whatever may be the motivation and psychological drive. Mom comes with too much baggage

and is considered a role model to emulate only by some.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 17 Mar 2007, 03:31

vasanthakokilam wrote:Mom comes with too much baggage and is considered a role model to emulate only by some.

You are right!. Actually it is now that Mom and I can talk so much music. I often asked her why she did'nt tell any of her experiences with CM when we were kids. She only smiles..that tells all.

meena · Post by **meena** » 17 Mar 2007, 03:39

My mom is one of those mamis you see in a concert who will look down upon you as if you were some sort of retard if you couldn't tell a panthuvarali from a poorvikalyani. I remember she used to tell me: "IddithOnE chollanon" (you should be able to tell it as soon as he takes it up) and I used to wonder if I was an adopted kid or something smile

rasam, do give me a fair warning when ur mom is in the room.

rasam · Post by **rasam** » 17 Mar 2007, 03:45

Sure, but just to be safe make sure you can distinguish D1 from D2

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2007, 09:06

Regarding tricking the kids subliminally to like CM songs for their own future good

, what songs are good candidates? There are already some mentions of inclusions ( Raghu Vamsa sudha ) and exclusions.. The criteria is something pleasant, mainstream CM, good voice and good sruthi and immediately accessible ( hooksy, if I may ).

My list so far.

1. Ninnuvina Namadendu - MSS
2. Ninnuvina Namadendu - Mali
3. Nagumomu - MSS or Mali
4. elavathara - Mukhari - NCV and/or Maaye - Tharangini - NCV ( AIR's subliminal programming with these two songs got me started

)
5. Vararagalaya - A good recording by GNB
6. Vandadum Solai Harikambodhi - MSS
7. Niravatisukhada - T.N. Rajarathnam Pillai
8. E Vasudha - Sahana - Karaikurichi Arunachalam
9. A short and swift mallari nadhaswaram
10. Makelara - Neyveli Santhanagopalan ( there are quite a few catchy ones along these lines, I just picked one )
11. Vilayada Idu Nerama - Santhanam
12. Nalinakantimathim Ragamalike - Santhanam ( has good scope to engage the kids in id'ing the ragas as it changes )
13. Krishna Ne Begane-Yamankalyani - For variety, let us bring in Lalgudi for this.
14. Brovabarama - Bahudari MSG
15. Marugelara - Jayanthasri - T.V. Shankaranarayanan
16. Bhavanutha - Mohanam - MSG
17. Thillana in Sivaranjani, Desh, Revathi etc.

EDIT: Added Jayanthasri and Mohanam on Mahesh33's prodding

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 17 Mar 2007, 09:42

How could you miss Hamsadhvani, Mohanam, Mohanakalyani, Jayanthasri and Gowdamalhar?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 17 Mar 2007, 09:50

I think some amount of compulsion is required from parents

Reminds me of a cartoon quip.

Father of unruly youngster to wife reading Child psychology book:
â€œDoes it say anywhere, where we are supposed to apply this free hand we are supposed to give him ?â€

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 17 Mar 2007, 09:53

Priceless, your quips are....

Godmod, u r way COOOL

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 17 Mar 2007, 17:10

rasam wrote:Here's a strategy from my own experience which might help: make raga identification a sort of game to interest children.

The last five to ten minutes of my music classes are spent me playing a raga alapana and my students have to guess them. I use only the ragas which they are familiar with. They seem to enjoy this exercise.

kaapi · Post by **kaapi** » 17 Mar 2007, 20:11

I think the following issues will influence the listening pattern of youngsters as far as CM is concerned, especially when they are located outside India.

Firstly, there is a question of being able to relate to the music they listen. It may not be possible for a youngster learning gItham or varnam to be able to appreciate a krithi, rAga AlapanA, neraval etc. Hence the initial exposure can be to tukkada and may be varnam. Also music of younger contemporary musicians will be more acceptable than the past masters.
(Once I was trying to explain the CM scene of the 50â€™s and 60â€™s to a youngster. When I recalled how during the 60â€™s in one of the concerts SSI sang a torrential swaram for mmgowlai which left both the accompanists and the audience equally stunned, he quipped â€œ but that happened almost half a century agoâ€

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2007, 20:15

VK
Niice selections. We can add many more that will be catching!

Folks

let us not discount the effect of 'laya' which is more intrinsically appealing. I have seen even two year olds rhythmically swaying and dancing to the beats of mridangam/ghatam. Most teeen agers are drawn to WM more through the rhythm whose effect cannot be discounted. Make the kids listen to PMI/UKS/KM or any of your choice and then see how they respond. Rhythm being free of language is of universal appeal. Children are no exceptions.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Mar 2007, 22:54

Good point CML, on the universal appeal about rhythm.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 17 Mar 2007, 23:00

I have seen Kids having selective hearing for mridamgam

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 18 Mar 2007, 16:08

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=8407
â€œThis is the fourth batch of students. I teach them Pancharatna kirtanams, Navaratari kritis and Navavarana kritis. This class is meant for music lovers, who earlier had no opportunity to learn music, but wanted to sing classical music. I consider it a great serviceâ€