Child Prodigy- Aishwarya Venkataraman

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 10 Mar 2007, 09:36

Madhuvijay,

I felt the same way when I went to that site. It's embarassing

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Mar 2007, 09:47

Children need encouragement, encouragement, encouragement from parents to blossom into healthy individuals and to develop their interests in areas of learning, including the fine arts. This is true, true, true. However, this does not include their being touted as prodigies, however adept they are in their artistic expressions. Children need the least amount of interference from the outside world when they pursue their interests. When they are made to 'perform' for others constantly, their natural flair for artistic expression would suffer or diminish...

ninjathegreat · Post by **ninjathegreat** » 10 Mar 2007, 11:26

A website does not even a musician make!!! I have a pretty expansive website (full of photos) too

!!!

Encourage the children, but don't push them into it. They will carry on if they want to. I think that it is necessary to critique them if at least to humble them about their talents. I had this friend in my undergrad days at Anna University (then the only one) who thought he was a great singer, and would push himself to sing publicly at all events. Well, he used to sing - pleasant for one who was completely tone deaf!!!! When I pointed it out to him (from a recording of his singing - sometimes friends are merciless!!), his reply was "but my parents always enjoy and praise my singing"!!!! Praise all right, I doubt if they enjoyed it!!!!!!!!

Maybe too much off note. Anyways, Children should be encouraged and they'll find their own way to the top. It's never necessary to be broadcast by their near and dear... And though we may have our opinions, I think we should not be overly harsh on the child. After all, parents are responsible till he/she's 18, are they not???

hsuvarna · Post by **hsuvarna** » 10 Mar 2007, 12:34

MADHUVIJAY wrote:Folks: I don't normally blog here but after reading all the reviews of Aishwaraya I went to her website and listened to her Music. If folks call this carnatic music by a prodigy. I wish CM good luck. Without trying to discourage her efforts. I encourage each one of you to listen to 8 yr old Jayshree Sarathy who sings and plays violin in the lotus concerts and other bay area concerts to understand what it means to be a prodigy and I don't think I have heard anyone call her that. I am not saying Jayshree is the best but it will give you some food for comparison.

If playing to correct shruthi and reciting memorised swara patterns means CM by a prodigy then I would request you to listen more to our stalwarts of yesteryears ......KVN, MDR, Ariyakudi....etc before jumping to such conclusions. Isn't there something called Raga Bhavam which you only get by internalising a raga and learning many krithis in one raga to understand every nuance in depth?

They say ignorance is bliss but this should not influence the "unknown bliss" of others who love CM music.

I am not sure whether one would recite memorised swara patterns in a concert for 2.5hrs. May be some part but not all I guess. At least we have to give credence to her Guru Sri TN Krishnan and her professor in university who recognized some talent in her.

Comparing to other 8yr old kids does not help anyone neither the 8yr nor 13yr.

But over exposure definitely does harm. There is no question about it. At the same time the argument of 'donot push kids' is also not fully true. Pushing them initially to some extent may be needed. Otherwise, they will end up in front of Tom&Jerry or cartoons channel. If they donot respond after pushing for sometime, we have to leave it and wait for them to blossom into whatever. If one wants to be an expert, working hard since childhood is necessary and that is what we have seen in history. Personally these experts may lose 'some' aspect of life as pointed by other netizens. But everyone losese some aspect of life.

<rajunds> Kambli did suffer from overhype/comparison and expectations. They harm and add pressure. But I would say that for his talent and the hard work he did, atleast he could play for sometime for his country. If he had not worked hard in childhood, we don't even know who Kambli is.

One great point someone mentioned is stagnancy. That is really true. I hope great things happen to this kid in future.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 10 Mar 2007, 19:01

when children show promise they should not be exposed. they should toil for donkey's years to attain a stage where their 'grooming' is adequate enouth to enable them to render CM like ritualistic mantra. this is how many of the existing vidwans toiled for years and please remember they can not recognise a talent blossoming so quickly. it is unnatural and the parents of them should be booked under a suitable provision of IPC for venturing in to such things.
Long live CM! Long live the connosiers of music!

gumki_thatha · Post by **gumki_thatha** » 10 Mar 2007, 21:41

I agree with Chalanata...

coimbatorerasigan · Post by **coimbatorerasigan** » 10 Mar 2007, 22:30

Today's top artists, Sanjay, TMK and Vijay Siva...the latter 2 quite talented even as youngsters...were not hailed by anybody as a "prodigy" as far as I can remember...infact, Sanjay used to be called a GNB clone in the early 90's...he sang marughelara repeatedly, and he seemed to laboriously struggle to come up with even a decent thodi...infact, his voice range was so limited, that one particular concert in 1992 or 93, had me rush to the exit....at the horrid hoarseness on display!

today, with adequate "grooming" and "sadhana" (Sanjay particularly) these artists have such a vivid imagination, and are handling complex expositions with elan....a thodi by Sanjay today is supreme in its scope....

whereas artists like Unnnikrishnan, Mandolin Srinivas that were hailed as prodigies....to my mind have clearly stagnated! Prodigies are the bane of carnatic music...one of a 100 so called "prodigy's" in modern times have really made it in music...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Mar 2007, 23:57

chalanata,

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Mar 2007, 00:12

Funny, chalanata! Until VK guffawed, I didn't get the acronym...

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 11 Mar 2007, 03:21

Explain to me!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Mar 2007, 03:24

IPC is an abbreviation for Indian Penal Code.

ninjathegreat · Post by **ninjathegreat** » 11 Mar 2007, 07:47

...the most famous of which is IPC 420...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Mar 2007, 11:14

Chalanata,
For a second there, I thought that you were of the school of thought that groomed the Williams sisters - but just for a second! ROFL!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 Mar 2007, 14:08

N Rajam Says in this DD program
My advice to the Kids ... they all seem to be in a hurry,.This music of ours is such an Old tradition.where is the need to hurry.
Please absorb it in Lesiure and learn as much as you can.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/pr8279

musicquest · Post by **musicquest** » 12 Mar 2007, 11:10

I want to clarify one point in my message. My message was not at the young girl but more on the use or misuse of the word prodigy. I think hsuvarna has a point when she says you cannot give a concert for 2.5 hrs by memorising patterns she is correct I did not listen to the concert and if she did give a good performance I think it is definitely commendable and in hindsight I feel should have been more elaborate and specific in my comments. But since I have not really listened to this kid other than the few clippings available on her website. I would like to take back any negative message in my comments to the kid or her parents .

My apologies if I have hurt anyone's sentiments.

My only concern would be that we might be using the word prodigy very lightly it is important that we set high standards for the kids and everyone to follow. This great music has evolved and will continue to do so and during the evolution the depth, quality and purity of the music should not be sacrificed.

Also in reference to the need to hurry. I think we (parents) are too eager to put the kids on stage, rather the focus should be on ensuring kids enjoy the music they learn. If you read interviews of our greats most say the samething....their focus was never on becoming famous or making money the need was to learn and sing/play to high standards.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 12 Mar 2007, 11:58

henceforth if any of the parents refer to their child as prodigy a law has to be enacted to send them to a concentration camp in siberia!

apasruthi · Post by **apasruthi** » 12 Mar 2007, 12:04

I think we all should immediately stop this thread, as it is freely giving publicity to the who-so-ever prodigy it is, (including this post of mine) for no reason, by being on top of the posts all the time (unless ofcourse if that is intended). I hope this would be the last post, and after which it would go down the list...

Apasruthi

P.S. Please don't reply by saying I agree..!!!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 12 Mar 2007, 19:32

If not "I agree", can I say tatAstu (in cmlover's language)?
Sorry! THE END!

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 09 May 2007, 13:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcmAlkzI ... ed&search=

The mridangam is out of tune from the start of the swarams

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 09 May 2007, 13:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Js60QVQEE

Also wanted to show this.

rasam · Post by **rasam** » 09 May 2007, 14:17

Her bowing is pretty impressive ... but its really hard to say anything about her after hearing some swarams for 'vathapi' ... are there any clips of her playing rakthi ragams like bhairavi or sahana?

All said, looks like she's pretty talented for her age! Good luck to her!

Babu Nair · Post by **Babu Nair** » 10 May 2007, 09:43

dear hsuvarna, thanks for introducing this child prodigy to us. i visited her web site. it is soooooo nice. if you can bring some of her works to us we will be very so lucky.

appu · Post by **appu** » 20 May 2007, 09:52

Hello all,

I am a new member. I got interested in this thread. I had an opportunity to listen to her at Partha sarathy swami sabha, this last December and I must say she handled the violin like a pro. Rasam asked if there were any clips of this kid performing rakthi ragams like Bhairavi or Sahana. I went searching and stumbled upon Thodi. Check it out. Here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emg2r8wj8i4

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 20 May 2007, 14:53

I listened to her todi. I agree its well rehearsed and lacks vigour but for a 13 year old, she's done a great job. Her bowing is fine (TNK's disciple...what do u expect?) and she HAS handled what is thought the most difficult of ragams, with maturity.
One more word about the comments made so far. If you don't think she's good enough or a child prodigy or whatever, please donot pass -ve comments. Remember that her future is at stake. There are many ppl reading posts in this forum and such criticism can damage the furture of the child. When there are a lot so called senior artistes getting away with sub standard stuff, why targert this child? Again, I am in no way related to her or donot know her parents. I am only concerned about the fact that her future should not be affected by this. I agree that parents are pushing thier wards beyond limits these days but in the process, the child suffers, both in terms of performance and in terms of -ve feedback.
-bhaktha

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 May 2007, 15:21

Prodigy: what is in a word? I personally think it rather meaningless to labour so much about the definition of the word, and its application to this young girl. I have attended one of her concerts before in US, and I thought she played remarkably well for her age. Her bowing is very fluid, and she has a good sense of rhythm and swara shuddham. Basically, at this age, she has much of what is technically necessary in becoming a good violinist. The swaras she played in that concert I attended had been rehearsed as well, but I think she can always work on manodharma in years to come. She has time. Only personal interest and hard work can ensure she progresses from being a "good" violinist to a "great" one. From what little interaction I saw between parents and girl during the concert (where Ravi Shankar was guest of honour), it appears she is being brought up in a very stringent manner. I'm not sure she gets to choose what she does or does not do in her life, so we can probably not speculate on the level to which she is really interested in carnatic music.

We would be able to judge her talents better if and when (and hopefully she does) she starts accompanying.

By the way, I visited her website and found it hilarious. I'm surprised the webmasters of the page stopped short of proclaiming she has specially descended from heaven to singlehandedly rejuvenate our music.

thinker225 · Post by **thinker225** » 20 May 2007, 19:08

The word prodigy is relative. But when it comes to my frame of reference, she is a good violinist for her age. I wouldn't term her a prodigy. Prodigy is something like an L Shankar at her age or an L Subramaniam at her age or a Mandolin Srinivas at much younger an age or say Zakir for example or even Palghat Mani Iyer who started accompanying the great Chembai from a tender age of 12!!

appu · Post by **appu** » 25 May 2007, 11:03

Very interesting EPK at www.sonicbids.com/divinestrings. Mokshamu in Saramati, and a RTP in Thodi. The tanam had a Nilambari that I dearly enjoyed. I wish the webmasters had uploaded the full recording. The tonal quality of her violin is absolutely remarkable.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Jun 2007, 10:02

Iwish to make a few observations:1) I thought this was a website to discuss music but find people are more involved in playing Psycho analysis, personal insulting of parents even complaining that the parents are educated "well heeled etc". I find this to be as bad as Subbudu's reviews to sell "copies"(tho' he knew at least the music) & offensive. It reflects poorly & I would like to think rasikas of carnatic music will rejoice that some one born in USA can reach such heights. 2) I have listened to the great masters since 1948 & I can assure you that if you ever listen to just her rendering of Vataphi ( I must have listened to more than a thousand times to truly GREAT renderings by MMI, GNB, Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer, Lalgudi, Ramani & others not to mention TNK himself) it is not just Brilliant & stands up to the BEST IN Carnatic music by any objective standards.. 3) She appears to be the answer to the technical criticism of south indian musicians regarding: Sruti Suddham & Swarasthana Suddham. Actually I REFRAIN FROM PLAYING MUSIC OF Carnatic music except MMI& M.S. to any serious musician from North India or North America. 3) She is already on top of WESTERN MUSIC-CLASSICAL &JAZZ. I WILL CONFIDENTLY PLAY HER MUSIC TO ANY ONE ANYWHERE( I DO NOT KNOW HER & NOT RELATED TO HER- NO AXE TO GRIND ETC!). Quibbling about age or how many other are prodigies is waste of time. This not Olympics speed record! The basic fact is very few(T.V.S. is one of them) can make it in Carnatic Music if they have not made it by ten or twelve. Ravikiran could identify RAgas by age TWO. 5) I would APPRECIATE A SLIGHTLY IMPERSONAL approach in trying to understand PERSONS WITH EXTRA ORDINARY ABILITIES. 6) Having a web site is no sin. Actually without communicating-thanks to internet- its what they say" NO GAIN!"..7) LET US CONCENTRATE ON THE POSITIVES & NOT PLAY EXPERTS IN AREAS WHERE WE ARE NOT EXPERTS OURSELVES. VKV....PLEASE DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY MIXING CAPITAL& SMALL LETTERS. VKV

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 05 Jun 2007, 14:54

vkv43034 wrote:3) She appears to be the answer to the technical criticism of south indian musicians regarding: Sruti Suddham & Swarasthana Suddham. Actually I REFRAIN FROM PLAYING MUSIC OF Carnatic music except MMI& M.S. to any serious musician from North India or North America.

That's a huge accusation. This might have been true in the past. But today's musicians sing with excellent sruthi shuddham. I name the following as examples:

Male:
1. Shri TVS
2. Shri OST
3. Shri Vijay Siva
4. Shri TMK
5. Shri Sikkil Gurucharan

Female:
1. Smt. Sudha
2. Smt. Jayashree
3. Smt. Nityashree
4. Smt. Gayathri venkatraghavan
5. Kum. Savitha
Note: The lists cover a cross section of all age groups.
And I can quote many more...
And btw, the young child is NO answer to the technical criticism of south indian musicians regarding: Sruti Suddham & Swarasthana Suddham. Sorry...we have not run out of our own good musicians!
-bhaktha

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:30

VKV,

Please, tell me how she is on top of Western Music-Classical & Jazz. That statement in itself is ridiculous. Just as we laugh if a Jazz musician/rasika made grandious claims about one carnatic musician (L. Sub is the first example that comes to mind....he's been called the greatest carnatic violinist ever by many Western critics), how do you think they would react to your silly claim. Please research your point further, and you'll see that you are sorely mistaken when you say that she is on TOp of western music (BOTH classical and Jazz).

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:32

vkv4...,
you are not helping aishvarya!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:42

Well said, chalanata.
Let the gifted Aishwarya enjoy her art and get better at it every day. Let us wait and see her blossom into a fine musician...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:44

Sorry...we have not run out of our own good musicians! -bhaktha

bhaktha, she is 'us' too.

As has already been pointed out, let us not drag the child through the mud. The web site seems to promote her a bit heavily but that is not unheard of. We hear people saying 'XYZ artist is so talented, he/she would be at the top had there been suppport and sponsorship at the higher levels'. Let us see if this strategy works out. Whether she is going to make it, if she so chooses, or not as a CM professional musician depends on her growing vidwat over the next decades.

The one thing that annoys me about those who manage her web site is, they seem to think we are not worthy to hear a full piece by her. They better change that.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:00

I or for that matter NO ONE can help anyone where creativity rules the roost! Many "prodigies" fall by the wayside which is the usual story. We have to wait & see what happens in EACH case. But TALKING ABOUT OTHER ASPECTS than her music appears to be unnecessary to me. In this unique class- They are few & far between-. one cannot make ABSOLUTE pronouncements. or play Experts!...
I must also add that in predominantly most cases such persons have shown promise very early in their lives. Reg her current status in terms of Western music to my knowledge she is going to perform in Licoln Center very soon, is "booked" till 2009 at prestigious places( has composed very decent pieces already in several genres of music) all over the world & is performing in Boston in prominent concert hall & giving concerts in prestigious places etc. Reg jazz type situations she performed in Madison Square Garden with leading musicians to a full house to enormous approval & played in NBA Knicks game to people standing up & cheering her performance.
I am NOT claiming she is Yehudi Menuhin or John Coltrane or Thelonius Monk yet but shows enormous promise & thats USUALLY the start of great things to come. I can keep going but time& space WILL NOT settle this. I claim it is an attitude of the mind that prevents many from accepting things the way thery are.
Regarding L.Subramaniam I agree with what you have written but his strength to me is his composing for movie music & his fusion & Jazz type music is quite outstanding. I think the two cases are totally different. I thank you for elevating the level of discussion to what one should be talking about instead of sordid comments about parents & other stuff which is trivialising things on what is suppposed to be a music site; In my view personal stuff should be off limits. VKV

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:35

Thank you for replying. I'm sure she's performing Western music, but based on what you have said, I don't think its reasonable to say that she is on TOP of the western music world. I was trying to point out that you have have exaggerated that portion of your comment. I spoke out harshly against whoever made her website. I'm pretty sure its her parent's doing, and that troubles me to see parents who will compare her to God (divine strings!). She is a good violin player for her age, no doubt. From what I've listened, she has a good tonal sound, but needs to increase her technical level (from what I've seen on youtube). The reason why it takes 35-40 years for Sanjay Subramanian to become what he is, is because of how difficult carnatic music is to learn/perform. Parents calling their own kid a prodigy also disturbs me, but this again reflects on the parents and not the girl.

And just out of the blue (VKV in your ID)...are you her father, or is that just some sort of weird coincidence (Vinod K. Venketraman)?

vkv43034 wrote:I or for that matter NO ONE can help anyone where creativity rules the roost! Many "prodigies" fall by the wayside which is the usual story. We have to wait & see what happens in EACH case. But TALKING ABOUT OTHER ASPECTS than her music appears to be unnecessary to me. In this unique class- They are few & far between-. one cannot make ABSOLUTE pronouncements. or play Experts!...
I must also add that in predominantly most cases such persons have shown promise very early in their lives. Reg her current status in terms of Western music to my knowledge she is going to perform in Licoln Center very soon, is "booked" till 2009 at prestigious places( has composed very decent pieces already in several genres of music) all over the world & is performing in Boston in prominent concert hall & giving concerts in prestigious places etc. Reg jazz type situations she performed in Madison Square Garden with leading musicians to a full house to enormous approval & played in NBA Knicks game to people standing up & cheering her performance.
I am NOT claiming she is Yehudi Menuhin or John Coltrane or Thelonius Monk yet but shows enormous promise & thats USUALLY the start of great things to come. I can keep going but time& space WILL NOT settle this. I claim it is an attitude of the mind that prevents many from accepting things the way thery are.
Regarding L.Subramaniam I agree with what you have written but his strength to me is his composing for movie music & his fusion & Jazz type music is quite outstanding. I think the two cases are totally different. I thank you for elevating the level of discussion to what one should be talking about instead of sordid comments about parents & other stuff which is trivialising things on what is suppposed to be a music site; In my view personal stuff should be off limits. VKV

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:43

vasanthakokilam wrote:
Sorry...we have not run out of our own good musicians! -bhaktha
bhaktha, she is 'us' too.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude...I was only reacting to vkv's comments.
Ya! The child is "us" too... please refer to post no# 74 in this thread.
-bhaktha

ninjathegreat · Post by **ninjathegreat** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:10

hm.. this discussion should stop. Every child is a prodigy in their own way, and let's leave it at that. She's a good violinist, and let's enjoy that if we can, or let's be silent - otherwise, we are only hurting both the child and her parents.

-N.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:31

I do not know her,not related to her, & strictly wrote what I wrote based on technical & asrtistic considerations...
Can you clarify what your criteria for being considered well above ordinary?... I can say mine: While I am in the FIFTIES TO SEVENTIES ERA MYSELF I have to honestly tell you that I avoid playing music other than that of MMI, MSS, MALI & RAMANI, PMI, PALNI & RAMABHADRAN TO NAME THE HANDFUL(THERE ARE OTHERS ALSO) to any north indian or north american who knows anything technical about music because you will notice mostly mistakes in Sruthi, Swarasthanam & surprisingly kalapramananam. Actually its mostly because of this most Carnatic musicians refuse to give permission to record their concerts.
However because of our experiences our minds suppress many such defects because the trinity as well as sivan, koteeswara iyer, & others have provided us
with such a SUPERLATIVE start with their compositions; As MMI & S.S.I. have publicly stated if one renders the composition perfectly it the best one can do; Actually MMI whose rendering of Vataphi I have heartd at least 300 times- I used to visit him regularly & discuss something new he managed to innovate in every rendering- had the intellectual honesty to remark& point out what he attempted & how it came out & stated till the very end that he is still attempting to render the perfect rendition of Vataphi. I have asked many famous musicians when they felt they were PERFECT & I am yet to come across one who claimed it for more than a minute in their entire career. So the point is these are all quests towards perfection & one has to judge each performer TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION the stage at their career reg age, experience etc.
There is no need to compare A VS B etc. ACcually many have claimed that Mali at 8-14 was far SUPERIOR to the later mali; I feel there are no hard & fast rules. On the other hand Experience& Age most of the time accentuates the bad habits& mistakes. The fact is it is too tough to be PERFECT!
I DONOT WISH TO EITHER JUDGE THE PARENTS, WEBSITES ETC(WASTE OF TIME & IRRELEVENT)... VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Jun 2007, 23:06

ninjathegreat! I bow to your superior suggestion&wisdom....I was under the impression that I was attempting to "elevate" the discussion level(very tough to go against Newton& Einstein?!) to avoid writing about personal things like parents, websites, & other inane& irrelevent topics- a waste of time....Can you suggest what shd be discussed & written about? VKV follwing in footsteps of George Bernard Shaw-paraphrased- Those who CAN DO & the rest.....?