In the latest issue of "nilAc cAral" ezine I came across two songs which were classified as "haute" style (!!). I thought it was amusing.
They go as :
1. makkup paiyA makkup paiyA enakku mayakkam tandu tolaiyENDA..
மக்குப் பையா மக்குப் பையா எனக்கு மயக்கம் தந்து தொலையேண்டா....
2. ostAvA ostAvA urasik koLLa ostAvA...
ஒஸ்தாவா ஒஸ்தாவா உரசிக் கொள்ள ஒஸ்தாவா....
YAm peRRa inbam peRuga ivvaiyagam (let the world enjoy what I enjoyed!)
Enjoy!
Thamizh film music lyrics reaching the pinnacle...
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pallavi.pr
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vgvindan
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mahakavi
That first line of the song is quoted as I wrote-- "ostAvA". If "vastAvA" (shall I come? or is it will you come?) is the correct word, then they must have distorted it in Thamizh.pallavi.pr wrote:I guess the 2nd one is in Telugu...it must be vastaava...
That song will be featured in a comedy movie, "naNbanin kAdali" ( male friend's female lover)
The other song goes as:
makkup paiyA makkup paiyA ennai mayakkit tolaiyENDA
It will be in a movie called "tavam" (penance) produced by arjun
My point in mentioning this is to indicate what sells among the masses. It is futile to try to take CM to the masses--even songs in CM tunes while appealing will not evince an interest in CM per se.. Let us face it. Certain aspects of life have to be restricted to a limited segment and nurtured just there if you want to retain the value for those. There is no use in lamenting otherwise.
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MaheshS
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Totally. Interesting Sub, I was listening to songs from Nandanar this morning and was thinking the same. Look at the language used then and look at the language used now. Who dare uses words like "paramugam" and "penmane" etc etc ina cinema song. As a friend once said after listening to MKT singing in Sivakavi, "Dei maps, adhu baghavathar pattu da, vidu, namakku varadhu"mahakavi wrote:My point in mentioning this is to indicate what sells among the masses. It is futile to try to take CM to the masses--even songs in CM tunes while appealing will not evince an interest in CM per se.. Let us face it. Certain aspects of life have to be restricted to a limited segment and nurtured just there if you want to retain the value for those. There is no use in lamenting otherwise.
It'd be very intersting to see how the language of the cinema songs changed during say each decade from the 40's. Would it be fair to call it deterioration? Then again if everyone composed in absolute proper tamil language [for example] then not many would understand it and it loses its purpose. Same goes for English I would say. If every one wrote like the bard or spoke like one then langauge which is used for *communication* loses it's purpose.
Comments?
Last edited by MaheshS on 07 Mar 2007, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.
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mahakavi
MaheshS:
I fervently hope your countrymate Jayaram doesn't take issue with your use of apostrophe in "it's". Before he starts another thread " It's not It's but Its", go back and edit the apostrophe out in your post when you mean the possessive case for it,
Phew, that's easy! As for the "deterioration" of language, it is true but then who is going to stop it? For that matter it is my contention as technology advances certain other things have to give. It is a zero sum game (life that is). The purists can lament all they want but then as they disappear from the scene, the first set of renegade folks would take over the podium and proclaim that subsequent generations are starting to pollute the language. And on it goes!
Fifty years from now, I bet, the current generation would find it hard to understand the lyrics written in Thamizh at that time. What is "dingri dingA ingE koNDA" now may become "sandA bandA andA endA" or something like that --totally unintelligible to those who understand the first line now.
I fervently hope your countrymate Jayaram doesn't take issue with your use of apostrophe in "it's". Before he starts another thread " It's not It's but Its", go back and edit the apostrophe out in your post when you mean the possessive case for it,
Phew, that's easy! As for the "deterioration" of language, it is true but then who is going to stop it? For that matter it is my contention as technology advances certain other things have to give. It is a zero sum game (life that is). The purists can lament all they want but then as they disappear from the scene, the first set of renegade folks would take over the podium and proclaim that subsequent generations are starting to pollute the language. And on it goes!
Fifty years from now, I bet, the current generation would find it hard to understand the lyrics written in Thamizh at that time. What is "dingri dingA ingE koNDA" now may become "sandA bandA andA endA" or something like that --totally unintelligible to those who understand the first line now.
Last edited by mahakavi on 07 Mar 2007, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.
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jayaram
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A comparison can be made with how Malayalam film songs have changed over time. Even today the majority of Mallu songs are melodious (often CM based), slow-paced, most of them with good sahityam, etc. Not very different from the songs of, say, the 70s. I would say one reason for this is that the films still have rural (or 'slow') settings, and take a more leisured, intelligent look at life.
The contrast with Tamil is quite obvious, what with the likes of 'Raguman' ruling the roost. Perhaps it's also got to do with the audience and their tastes? (as in close to 100% literacy in Kerala?)
The contrast with Tamil is quite obvious, what with the likes of 'Raguman' ruling the roost. Perhaps it's also got to do with the audience and their tastes? (as in close to 100% literacy in Kerala?)
Last edited by jayaram on 07 Mar 2007, 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
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MaheshS
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Jayaram -
Interesting comparison between Tamil and Malayalam. I've got a few ideas / comments ...and before anyone jumps, I'm 50% mallu myself. My mum is from Palakkad [not exactly, a kuk gramam about 14 miles away]. The other 50% is Tamilian from Tanjore [Tirukarukagavur]!!
- The rate in which Tamil movie industry grew compared to Malayalam movie industry. Tamil movie industry just grew exponentially and still continues to do so.
- It may be Tamil people were "influenced" more and related to that in every walk of life. There hasn't been a CM for TN since 60's [IIRC] that hasn't been invloved with the movie industry before they came over to politics. Naiveity?
- Re: literacy. Hmm maybe, however, there is a common consesus that people from ALL walks of life use to enjoy that kind of music in the 40's etc and the usual "andha kalathula mattu karanukku kuda sangeetham theriyum". I can only infer that there were uneducated masses as well. So we can't just point at education, IMHO.
I'm sorry if this is a digression from CM, but very interesting topic to me and would love to have a open discussion.
Interesting comparison between Tamil and Malayalam. I've got a few ideas / comments ...and before anyone jumps, I'm 50% mallu myself. My mum is from Palakkad [not exactly, a kuk gramam about 14 miles away
]. The other 50% is Tamilian from Tanjore [Tirukarukagavur]!!- The rate in which Tamil movie industry grew compared to Malayalam movie industry. Tamil movie industry just grew exponentially and still continues to do so.
- It may be Tamil people were "influenced" more and related to that in every walk of life. There hasn't been a CM for TN since 60's [IIRC] that hasn't been invloved with the movie industry before they came over to politics. Naiveity?
- Re: literacy. Hmm maybe, however, there is a common consesus that people from ALL walks of life use to enjoy that kind of music in the 40's etc and the usual "andha kalathula mattu karanukku kuda sangeetham theriyum". I can only infer that there were uneducated masses as well. So we can't just point at education, IMHO.
I'm sorry if this is a digression from CM, but very interesting topic to me and would love to have a open discussion.
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rajeshnat
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Jayaram/MaheshS
1. Unlike other southern states, kerala is very distinct in the population profile . To the best of my knowledge , there is both rural and urban getting intermixed everywhere . I can't find a difference between ernakulam town (city) and the nearby manjappara. No clear distinction between urban vs real.
Whereas cities in other states have a clear urban identity (especially AP and TN). The influence of urban is very distinct and not intermixed with rural.
2. Also in general kerelites being a communist paradise , the influence of social themes are considered as a essential prerequisite for the families to enjoy. In that respect I would rate keralites have a better taste in films atleast with respect to the critical mass. Unfortunately in TN and AP , everything since 1970's has been influenced by few heroes and more importantly unwanted heroworshipping.
These 2 critical points are with respect to movies. Since songs and lyrics are only a part of movies the good/bad/ugly intent of movies get trickled to its dependent songs and lyrics.
1. Unlike other southern states, kerala is very distinct in the population profile . To the best of my knowledge , there is both rural and urban getting intermixed everywhere . I can't find a difference between ernakulam town (city) and the nearby manjappara. No clear distinction between urban vs real.
Whereas cities in other states have a clear urban identity (especially AP and TN). The influence of urban is very distinct and not intermixed with rural.
2. Also in general kerelites being a communist paradise , the influence of social themes are considered as a essential prerequisite for the families to enjoy. In that respect I would rate keralites have a better taste in films atleast with respect to the critical mass. Unfortunately in TN and AP , everything since 1970's has been influenced by few heroes and more importantly unwanted heroworshipping.
These 2 critical points are with respect to movies. Since songs and lyrics are only a part of movies the good/bad/ugly intent of movies get trickled to its dependent songs and lyrics.
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
In 1954 (?) when ANNA wrote Or iravu there was a song
'ayya saam', aavOji saami, nari kombirukku vaangalayO..' sung by MLV. It made a ruffle in CM circles that MLV could sing such a trash though the song in the movie was sung by a nari kuRaththi. MLV personally did not like that bad publicity. But the song became outrageously popular and more such songs started surfacing in Tamil movies sung by other new comers. TMS started singing with zest nonsense lyrics and he was well paid. Of course ARR capitalized on that theme also using raucous western music in combo. ILayaraja tries (tried ?) to package CM in gliitzy words (naaTupaaDal too!) hoping he could bring a resurgence of interest in CM. Sindhubhairavi is a case in point. Incidentally barring BMK IR is the only composer who has composed in all the 72 melas. it is wrong to claim that public will not appreciate good CM in movies. But 'sex' sells. And the youngsters flock in droves after 'verbal pornography' while the 'blue' varieties will not survive the censor's scissors. What do you guys think if these trash music were couched in elegant CM ragas ?(since ragas are independant of the language
Worth a serious discussion....
'ayya saam', aavOji saami, nari kombirukku vaangalayO..' sung by MLV. It made a ruffle in CM circles that MLV could sing such a trash though the song in the movie was sung by a nari kuRaththi. MLV personally did not like that bad publicity. But the song became outrageously popular and more such songs started surfacing in Tamil movies sung by other new comers. TMS started singing with zest nonsense lyrics and he was well paid. Of course ARR capitalized on that theme also using raucous western music in combo. ILayaraja tries (tried ?) to package CM in gliitzy words (naaTupaaDal too!) hoping he could bring a resurgence of interest in CM. Sindhubhairavi is a case in point. Incidentally barring BMK IR is the only composer who has composed in all the 72 melas. it is wrong to claim that public will not appreciate good CM in movies. But 'sex' sells. And the youngsters flock in droves after 'verbal pornography' while the 'blue' varieties will not survive the censor's scissors. What do you guys think if these trash music were couched in elegant CM ragas ?(since ragas are independant of the language
Worth a serious discussion....
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arasi
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CML,
AiyyA sAmi, AOji sAmi, ayyA rAYYA vAYYA, you come AiyyA!
AiyyA sAmi, AOji sAmi, narik kombirukku, vAngalaiyO!
An 'appaTTa' (blatant) copy from 'chOre chOre', shamshad begum's hit song in hindi.
The youngsters today may find it difficult to understand, however easy it all seems--and the admixture of languages too. Let me prove it. To them, vAngalaiyO would mean=haven't you bought it, while 'vAngalaiyO?' is how a hawker cried out to sell his goods: kIrai vAngalaiyO, kIrai!'
Mahakavi,
Please abstain from writing verse, inspired by this. I would rather have your murugan pATTUgaL!
AiyyA sAmi, AOji sAmi, ayyA rAYYA vAYYA, you come AiyyA!
AiyyA sAmi, AOji sAmi, narik kombirukku, vAngalaiyO!
An 'appaTTa' (blatant) copy from 'chOre chOre', shamshad begum's hit song in hindi.
The youngsters today may find it difficult to understand, however easy it all seems--and the admixture of languages too. Let me prove it. To them, vAngalaiyO would mean=haven't you bought it, while 'vAngalaiyO?' is how a hawker cried out to sell his goods: kIrai vAngalaiyO, kIrai!'
Mahakavi,
Please abstain from writing verse, inspired by this. I would rather have your murugan pATTUgaL!
Last edited by arasi on 07 Mar 2007, 23:31, edited 1 time in total.
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mahakavi
arasi:arasi wrote:Mahakavi,
Please abstain from writing verse, inspired by this. I would rather have your murugan pATTUgaL!
You are depriving me of pecuniary benefits! Kollywood will not buy Murugan pADalgaL. But this "attiri kattiri pattiri endiri" will fetch lots more money when written for group dance. But I will listen to you and desist from peddling my "highly literary" attiri songs even it means I have to forego the next meal!
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cmlover
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- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
arasi
at the same time MLV sang therein also 'thunbam nErkayil yAzheDuththu nI inbam sErkka mATTAyA' the beautifulu lyric of bhArathidAsan in beautiful dEsh which indeed brought the attention of the CM folks to this lovely northern Raga. While dEsh did get into CM concert circuits the movies went for trash rather
at the same time MLV sang therein also 'thunbam nErkayil yAzheDuththu nI inbam sErkka mATTAyA' the beautifulu lyric of bhArathidAsan in beautiful dEsh which indeed brought the attention of the CM folks to this lovely northern Raga. While dEsh did get into CM concert circuits the movies went for trash rather
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rshankar
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CML:cmlover wrote:arasi
at the same time MLV sang therein also 'thunbam nErkayil yAzheDuththu nI inbam sErkka mATTAyA' the beautifulu lyric of bhArathidAsan in beautiful dEsh which indeed brought the attention of the CM folks to this lovely northern Raga. While dEsh did get into CM concert circuits the movies went for trash rather
That wasn't MLV, it was S. Rajeshwari! And I think this is the only song of bharatidAsan that sounds melodious when set to music. Most of the others I've heard soound so contrived!
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mahakavi
cmlover:
BhArathidAsan (aka kanakasubburattinam) was an ardent admirer and follower of our own dear Bharathi. He tagged Bharathi during the days of Bharathi's exile in PuduccEri and was a moral support to Bharathi. For that I admire BD. But he marched to his own trumpet in writing poetry taking some cue from Bharathi. It is a genre of his own. That is why he is known as "puraTcik kavignar" (revolutionary poet). He resorted mostly to mixing prose and poetry. Many current day poets(?) follow that tradition. BD did not write poetry to be tuned to music but for its own sake. He later on wrote dramas too.
BhArathidAsan (aka kanakasubburattinam) was an ardent admirer and follower of our own dear Bharathi. He tagged Bharathi during the days of Bharathi's exile in PuduccEri and was a moral support to Bharathi. For that I admire BD. But he marched to his own trumpet in writing poetry taking some cue from Bharathi. It is a genre of his own. That is why he is known as "puraTcik kavignar" (revolutionary poet). He resorted mostly to mixing prose and poetry. Many current day poets(?) follow that tradition. BD did not write poetry to be tuned to music but for its own sake. He later on wrote dramas too.
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baboosh
- Posts: 140
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There is no point in lamenting.Only we have to ensure that such compositions like renditions do not appear in CM dais.We see nowadays anything is passed off as a great kirtanam.I do not want to quote any for the fear hurting the sensibilities of fellow rasikas.There was athread in ragamika subjectmahakavi wrote:That first line of the song is quoted as I wrote-- "ostAvA". If "vastAvA" (shall I come? or is it will you come?) is the correct word, then they must have distorted it in Thamizh.pallavi.pr wrote:I guess the 2nd one is in Telugu...it must be vastaava...
That song will be featured in a comedy movie, "naNbanin kAdali" ( male friend's female lover)
The other song goes as:
makkup paiyA makkup paiyA ennai mayakkit tolaiyENDA
It will be in a movie called "tavam" (penance) produced by arjun
My point in mentioning this is to indicate what sells among the masses. It is futile to try to take CM to the masses--even songs in CM tunes while appealing will not evince an interest in CM per se.. Let us face it. Certain aspects of life have to be restricted to a limited segment and nurtured just there if you want to retain the value for those. There is no use in lamenting otherwise.