A visit with Subramanya Bharathi

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jan 2007, 21:08

You are given an all-expense-paid trip to visit India during the period 1893-1921 to tag Bharathi from Ettayapuram to vAraNAsi to kaDayam to PuduccEri to Madras. What would you say to Bharathi? Given what you know now about him what subjects would you cover with him?

(If this topic is inappropriate here in this forum the moderator can delete it right away.)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jan 2007, 23:20

My, mahakavi! If only I could have walked the beach with him--as the mother of someone I know did in Pondy, if only I had been in the village my ancestors came from and happened to ride a bullock cart to kaDayam and saw this feller with such an unforgettable face, if only I had set my eyes on him on the banks of the ganges, if only I had seen him near the pathasarathy temple, my million questions would have melted in the fire of his being!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:18

If I ask him about what we know about him today it will be an anchronism. He would take me to be a fake astrologer trying to swindle him! In those days Bharathy was not appreciated and he lived in grinding penury. What makes you think he would engage in any small talk when his stomach was burning?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 Jan 2007, 07:56

Sorry, I should have expanded on my query. Leaving aside the monetary issues, what other subjects such as literature (how he got to assimilate so much Thamizh literature, Sanskrit education, and English knowledge enough to bring out English language newspapers), music (where did he obtain music knowledge to suggest rAgam and tALam for his many songs), and patriotism (how he really got into it despite struggling for his next meal). Apparently he had a very good voice and he used to sing his songs tuned by himself.

Also: Where did he get that internal flame in him so as to ask parAshakti to make the world prosper and not ask Her anything specifically for himself? It is like Abhirama Bhattar after erring in quoting the tidi, who did not ask ambAL for protecting him from the wrath of the royal court. Instead he asked for ambAL to appear before him with Her consort. Bharathi wrote, "inda nAnilam muRRilum nallinbattil vAzhga". He meant it seriously. He was crying his heart out for the indentured sugarcane workers in Fiji. He welcomed the Prince of Wales with a song while opposing the British rule at its core. A man who held contradictory views simultaneously without having to apologize for that.

Overall, what would you like to learn from him if you got that chance? What would be the nature of such conversations? I would be speechless at first upon meeting him but once I get my composure back, I would take a few of his poems and ask him his frame of mind at the time he wrote them, the circumstances under which he got such inspiration to pen them and I would let the discussions go from there in a natural flow. I would just listen and listen while he poured his heart out. That would be an experience worth treasuring for me. Of course I would not let him know that I know his future.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jan 2007, 03:04

Let us take one at a time. Bharathi is a 'aashu kavi'. The compositions came naturally to him not painfully constructed. He is comparable to Thyagaraja in this respect. He is an 'inspired' poet. When Ramanujam (who was coeval) was asked about his uncanny solutions; he replied 'naamagiri devi gave him the solution during the dream' ! I belive Bharathi was a shakti upasaka and he was blessed. If he were a few centuries earlier; we would have a story circulating that Parashakti appeared before him and wrote her bIjAkShara and then he sang 'Om Shakti Om shakti Om...'. Too bad he was too close to us in time for such miracle stories to be concocted and to gain currence

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jan 2007, 17:50

CML,
Too bad, you say (tongue in your cheek)! Can you believe the number of temples bhArathi would have had in Tamizh nAdu? Money poured into it all in place of building libraries or schools?

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 26 Jan 2007, 17:53

my reations:
1. bharathi has been well documented in comparison to thyagaraja. memoirs of chellamma bharathi, his own chinna sankaran kadhai, yadugiri ammal's memoirs, memoirs of bharati dasan, vaaraa are to name a few.
2. he had an instict for poetry and contrary to his father's expectations he could not make it to earning good money.
3. he met sister nivedhita when he went for calcutta congress where in his own words he describes it as gnana darshan. this and his metemorphosis as a revolutionary are well documented in 'barathiyin kaalamum karuthum' by chidambara raghunathan.
4. bharathi was a multi linguist- other than tamil, hindi, telugu, sanskrit and english he knew marathi too.
5. he belonged to a pre gandhian era of freedom fighters who went in to oblivion after the advent of gandhiji. he belonged to the clan of tilak.
6. many more insights are available in well documented prose of his by seeni viswanathan.
7. he was the first to give the tamils the 'tamil psyche'.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Jan 2007, 19:17

chalanata wrote:7. he was the first to give the tamils the 'tamil psyche'.

And hence Kalki's tribute to the 'kaviarasar':

deiva tamizh nATTinilE veNNilAvE nAngaL vIraminri pEdayar pOl vAzhndiriundOm
yEdum SeivadariyAda pozhudinile oru simhanAdam kETTezhundOm veNNilAvE
iruLaDainda nADidenru yavarO SonnAr, anda iruLum oru perumaiyenru yeNNi vAzhndOm
nalla arivoLiyAl iruLagaRRa oruvar vandAr, idai amararnADenru arindOm veNNilAvE

Ravi

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jan 2007, 19:44

arasi wrote:CML,
Can you believe the number of temples bhArathi would have had in Tamizh nAdu? Money poured into it all in place of building libraries or schools?

arasi:
I seriously doubt that. That very thought sends a chill down my spine (I am sure you would feel the same too). He is to be revered and admired but certainly NOT worshipped. Bharathi does not belong in the same class as PeriyAr or even Kushbu ( i.e., popular among the masses) although Bharathi wrote all his poems in a style that could be understood by the common man. He also had a parallel deep current running through them for those who are more discerning.

As CML says he was certainly inspired by parAshakti as Ramanujan was (by Namakkal kALi). To me personally these two people stand foremost among Thamizh greats. If they built temples for Bharathi I would have been very disappointed. Build schools and libraries and light the flame for scholarship in every child. That would be the most fitting tribute we can pay to Bharathi.

Having said that I am not sure many people who extol him now would have done the same thing while he was alive. Usually clairvoyant and revolutionary souls are not appreciated in their own time. Homer, the epic poet, had to wander in the streets of his own hometown when he was alive. After he died, it is said, seven Greek cities claimed him as their own citizen. Imagine that!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Jan 2007, 19:57

And going by the chronology of naming universities in TN, there would have to temples for bhAratidAsan first before one for bhArati!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jan 2007, 22:34

arasi
reminds me of the poet's own words:
"paLLithalam anaiththum kOilkaL seivOM..'. In fact the temples were places of education (veda paaraayaNam, teaching upanishads etc.,). I wonder why we are not using those fine structures as lecture halls for education. Hinduism is a liberal religion and we Indians were always open-minded. What periyaar was preaching was in no way different from kapila's Sankhya philosophy. Sankhya philosophy is still extant though Shankara did a masterful job of demolishing it. Jayadeva (in his Bhakti movement) introduced Kapila/Buddha into the Hindu pantheon and that was the end of the debate. I believe the statue of Periyaar should be 'installed' inside the temples. One might even compose a 'stOtra' (shall I

on him.
(here is a prelude

nindati yag~navidhErahaha shrutijAtaM |
sadayah^ridaya darshita varNAvibhAgaM ||
kEshava dh^rita nAyakka sharIra jaya jagadhIsha harE ||

That will cut him to size and for his svayamariyaathai movement. Hinduism unlike other religions is assimilative/inclusive and 'open' and we were never afraid of open debate.
(Shankar! should I move this debate to the bhakti thread? I enjoyed the verse as well as that last quip

Sorry Sub

I will get back to Bharathi though these thoughts are not foreign to his teachings... Give me time...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:18

Sub
A quick question?
Bharathi knew Tamil, Telugu, Hindi, English.
He has composed in Tamil, English, Hindi but never in Telugu.
While we bewail the lack of Tamil kritis by Thyagaraja shouldn't we keep this in mind?
(this supports the divine inspiration theory!)

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:49

Here is another tribute by a great composer, Papanasam Sivan, to a great kavi Bharathi.

"pAmAlaikkiNaiyuNDO" in the rAgam harikAmbhoji

Pallavi line: pAmAlaikkiNaiyuNDO subramaNya bhArathiyE nI bhaktiyinAl toDutta

AP or C: tamizhnADu sey tavappayanAy vandavA...

Listen to Sanjay Subrhamanyan's rendition here.
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit10152001/musicarts1.asp

Sanjay does the neraval on the line "tamizhnADu sey..."

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:57

cmlover wrote:Bharathi knew Tamil, Telugu, Hindi, English.
He has composed in Tamil, English, Hindi but never in Telugu.
While we bewail the lack of Tamil kritis by Thyagaraja shouldn't we keep this in mind?
(this supports the divine inspiration theory!)

Well, yes it supports the divine inspiration. T was fluent in his mother tongue Telugu and it is natural that he poured forth in that spontaneously. Likewise Bharathi's early learning was centered on Thamizh literature. He had both literary knowledge and language proficiency in Thamizh as strong foundations before he started writing poetry. His knowledge of Telugu was just minimal (conversational level, maybe) but not enough to attempt writing poetry in it. He could have attempted since people like GNB and several others composed in Telugu while it was not their mother tongue. But those were muscial compositions impregnating bhakti in the few lines. Bharathi would not attempt such writing just for the sake of displaying his knowledge. Everything came from within. The English part was done to cater to the national audience induced by the zeal of freedom fighting.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Jan 2007, 00:26

What periyaar was preaching was in no way different from kapila's Sankhya philosophy.

You mean one who burnt of Periya Puranam and Kamba Ramayanam preached Sankhya yOga? Worth reading more into his life!

Sankhya philosophy is still extant though Shankara did a masterful job of demolishing it. Jayadeva (in his Bhakti movement) introduced Kapila/Buddha into the Hindu pantheon and that was the end of the debate.

I am afraid there is a little confusion. Sankhya Yoga propounded by Sage Kapila is still very much part of Hindu philosophy. Buddha's philosophy is totally different - His ahimsa and anti-yajna aspects were incorporated into Hinduism.

Buddha is called sAkhya muni.
Sankaracharya demolished the theory of Sakhya - Buddha. Kumarila Bhattar episode refers to Buddhists.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:30

VG
Periyar's burning of Ramayanam, breaking vinayaka idols were all tokenisms. He was bent on eliminating caste barriers. Ignore his stunts. When he found he could not succeed within 'Hinduism' he continued his battle by becoming a buddhist.

kabila's sankhya is 'atheism'. It is different from 'sAnkhya yoga' (found in gIta or bhagavtam). There is a school who believe he was influential on fashioning the outlook of buddha himself who was also an atheist. His buddhism was a variant of kabila's sankhya philosophy. Shankara demolished 'atheism'.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jan 2007, 02:16

http://www.sawf.org/audio/sivan/tvr_sharade.ram

Here is the link for Sanjay's rendition of "pAmAlaikkiNaiyuNDO..."

The previous reference I gave contains a tribute to Sivan.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jan 2007, 02:18

Oops, wrong again. That was TVR's.
This is Sanjay's:
http://www.sawf.org/audio/sivan/sanjay_paamaalai.ram

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 09:51

mahakavi,
I had heard Sanjay sing pAmAlai in a concert, and your posting it made me realize that it is among the best compositions about bhArathi, in verse and music--and Sanjay delivers it with reverence. While I wish with all my heart that more vocalists would take up to singing bhArathi and songs about him, I am not sure if some who do sing his verses do justice to them in investing the emotion which they call for. Also, the tuning of the songs sometimes falls under the popular category than the 'feeling' sort. I keep wishing more would sing bhArathi, with emotive sincerity...
Now that we are at it, any recordings of pATTukkoru pulavan bhArathiyaDA!--of Dandapani Desikar??

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Jan 2007, 10:22

sub
One other in favour of inspiration is the fact that Bharathi never imitated his predecessors. None of his compositions are patterned after other famous poems in Tamil (exception is the 'aathishooDi'). Notice that his compositions generally do not follow yaapilakkaNam (though some occasional ones do!). Again his language was simple compared to the contrived language of the previous poets. When you read him, you understand him plain and simple and no verbal pyrotechnics. Of course he uses words effectively to convey the emotions. Herein I agree with arasi that the singers usually fail to bring out those emotions while tuning his songs, He is like Kalki who simplified prose Tamil and made it accessible to the common man. I think Thyagaraja did the same thing while composing in Telugu making his kritis simple and elementary which is why his songs are so melodious. Bharathi did write kritis and set them to music and he did sing them with a strong voice! He could have been a great Tamil vageyakara were it not for the fact that his love of unconstrained 'blank verse' overpowered his psyche. He was a free spirit who cannot be bound by the fetters of raga and taala of CM. That is why many choose light music to experiment with his compositions. Unfortunately the raucous instruments kill the emotions behind his constructions. Maybe we shoudl discuss how one should go about singing 'Bharathiyaar KavithaikaL'. Perhaps new ragas (or misra ragas) are needed. I personally would like the liberal HM approach. Discuss please!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 27 Jan 2007, 10:23

This thread is getting interesting, by the day.

Arasi
here is the track.
http://rapidshare.com/files/13578764/Pa ... u.mp3.html

Hope to get to read the full poem/translations/commentaries as we go along.
Thanks to all ..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 12:38

Cool,
Thank you for the prompt delivery! Bet many others are glad too, to hear Desikar...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 12:41

mahakavi,
Wasn't it nAmagirit thAyAr that the orthodox vaiNavA Ramanujan worshipped?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 27 Jan 2007, 20:40

arasi wrote:mahakavi,
I had heard Sanjay sing pAmAlai in a concert, and your posting it made me realize that it is among the best compositions about bhArathi, in verse and music--and Sanjay delivers it with reverence.

Arasi,
I too, like this P.Sivam's composition, but I love Smt. MSS's version of Kalki's ode even more - absolutely powerful, especially where he talks/she sings 'ganagaiyena pongivarum tantamizhinAl, kavidai pala punaidaLittAr veNNilAvE'. I think Lji posted the lyrics somewhere.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jan 2007, 21:42

arasi wrote:mahakavi,
Wasn't it nAmagirit thAyAr that the orthodox vaiNavA Ramanujan worshipped?

Yes, it is nAmagiri (nAmakkal in Thamizh) Lakshmi who was the family goddess (kuladeyvam) for rAmAnujan (from his maternal side, I guess) since rAmAnujan's mother hailed from Erode, which is close to nAmakkal.

Incidentally if you like to see the house where rAmAnujan lived in KumbakONam here is the link.
http://www.maa.org/pubs/mayjuneweb.pdf

Read pp 5-6 for the article about the pilgrimage to rAmAnujan's hometown.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 22:07

Oui, oui, Ravi (not the violinist!), kalki's song is beautiful. After all, the man worshipped the poet. The missionary zeal with which he spread the word about the poet is amazing. The Ettayapuram BhArathi VizhA, bhArathi songs competitions, seminars on the poet, articles, and many more efforts to promote the kavi.Once, I sang the invocation for the Ettayapuarm vizhA. My uncle gave an entire concert (the first of its kind?) of bhArathi's songs. From then on, any literary meet that I would go to, still a child, he would spot me and with a smile, sometimes say--come and sing 'endaiyum thAyum' (or some other song) to start the meeting. TKChidambaranada mudaliar,
A. Srinivasaraghavan, rAjAji, nAmakal kavignar and other poets, writers, scholars (all great speakers) used to address these meetings and kalki was instrumental in making them happen. And how I loved listening to them!
We are talking of bhArathi, pan mozhip pulavan--he spoke french, I bet. Wonder if he has written in french too. A few years ago, I went to visit his house in Pondy. Simple, but a well kept little museum now.
My friend wanted to take a picture of me, standing next to his portrait. Though she is english (well, part irish--so, his revolutionary ways appealed to her!) and had no clue about bhArathi until then, she saw me all excited and knew how important he was. I told her things about him and translated a few lines of his poetry as we walked the beach--and moi who does not shed tears easily--was crying copiously while tracing the bard's footsteps on the sea shore..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 22:21

mahakavi,
(no, I am not addressing bhArathi, but sub!)
Thanks.

We do miss spring cuckoo's (VK) chirpings, Ravi--have to wait until he is back from his vacation...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Jan 2007, 22:23

My comparison of Bharathi and Ramanujam are more than appropriate. They shared the same time frame. Both were inspired by shakti; but of course Ramnaujam being a (vIra) vaiShNava she took the LakShmi form! Both were primarily selftaught. Both died comparatively young. The greatness of both was not appreciated during their lifetime. And even today their homeland is chary of praise for their excellence because they happened to be 'brahmins'. Will the TN Govt ever consider sponsoring/donating any funds if their life and achievements were to be filmed!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jan 2007, 23:10

arasi wrote:mahakavi,
(no, I am not addressing bhArathi, but sub!)
..

Yes, I realize. He is mahAAAAAAAAAAAkavi! I just use his title (with the lower case "a" ) as my nickname, that is all. By the way I have been using it as my userid for almost 10 years now at so many websites. It is my way of "lviing" with him in thought, word, and deed.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 23:29

CML,
You are right. They do have a lot in common. Mainly, penury. My mother insisted that at least a few of our garments should be sewn by- - - - - - though we fussed about the fit. My mother was a young widow herself and her heart went out to this woman.
Fill in the blanks with Mrs.Ramanujam. Plying the sewing machine fetched a few rupees--for the widow of one of India's great minds...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jan 2007, 23:33

mahakavi,
Is it like this peasant woman calling herself arasi?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Jan 2007, 01:24

While cmlover wondered why the great rasika of 'mahaa kavi' called himself 'mahakavi', the one who commanded 'aa rasi' became 'arasi'

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Jan 2007, 01:59

With the current trend of out sourcing many things to India from all around the world (including non-emergency Health Care), Bharati should feel very vindicated - after all, many decades ago, he proudly predcited 'ulaga tozhil anaittum uvandu seivOm'! And he left nothing out: from the lowly needles (USigaL seivOm) to mighty weapons (Ayudam SeivOm) and everything inbetween (including paper - nalla kAgidam seivOm), he said we would do it all!
And if we followed his advice, we would be world leaders in the green revolution (kADu vaLarppOm), marine biology (kaDal mInai aLappOm)...
I could go on, but you get the point!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Jan 2007, 02:16

vINil uNDu kaLiththiruppOrai nindanai seivOM

(there is a slap for the obese westerners

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Jan 2007, 03:11

Yes - at least get some exercise, right?

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 28 Jan 2007, 06:38

cmlover wrote:When he found he could not succeed within 'Hinduism' he continued his battle by becoming a buddhist.

He didnt become Buddhist. Ambedkar did.

kabila's sankhya is 'atheism'.

I dont think this is correct. Its perhaps close to non-theism, but it admits a Purusha and Prakrti which does not tally with atheism.

It is different from 'sAnkhya yoga' (found in gIta or bhagavtam).

The Gita speaks of both sankhya yoga and sankhya darshana. Krishna even calls himself Kapila.

There is a school who believe he was influential on fashioning the outlook of buddha himself who was also an atheist.

Buddhism is not atheistic either. This is a popular misconception.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 28 Jan 2007, 07:12

OK, here are couple of his declarations.
1. Bharathi wanted an egalitarian society (while recognizing the existing caste system: Ayiram uNDingu jAti enil anniyar vandu pugal enna nIti.

"We may have umpteen castes amongst us but there is no justification for the foreigners to meddle in our country"

JAti madangaLaip pArOm--uyar
janmam iththEsattil eydinarAyin
vEdiyarAyinum onRE-anRi
vERu kulattavarAyinum onRE

"We will ignore the considerations of caste and religion. Whoever has attained a lofty status in this country of ours, they are all equal whether they belong to the priestly class or any other caste". That emphatic declaration comes from a person born as a brahmin.

2. vITTukkuLLE peNnaip pUTTi vaippOmenRa vindai manitar talai kavizhndAr...kummi aDi peNNE
"Those weird men who wanted to keep the women in the confines of the home have retreated in shame".

Bharathi argued for women's upliftment and egalitarianism long before these slogans (women's liberation movement and equal opportunity employment) became fashionable in the west . He was way ahead of his time. Perhaps society does not like such clairvoyant people.

True it took sister Nivedita to open his eyes towards women. But once he recognized that he became a true champion of their rights and potential.

ANum peNNUm nigarenak koLvadAl aRivilOngi ivvaiyam tazhaikkumAm "By considering men and women equal this world will achieve intellectual merit and prosper"

paTTangaL ALvadum saTTangaL seyvadum pArinil peNgaL naDatta vandOm

Indira Gandhi would have a lot to thank Bharathi for that.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Jan 2007, 09:05

Sub,
Isn't this another of his declarations?
'jAti iranDozhiya vErillai enrE
tamizh magaL Solliya Sol amirzhtam enbOm
nIdi neriyil ninru pirarkudavOm
nErmayar mElavar kIzhavar maRROr'

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 29 Jan 2007, 07:40

Here is an example of Bharathi's universalism. He was a devout Hindu worshipping parAshakti. But he wrote poems on Jesus and allAh (actually just two, one on each). On top of that he recognized all religions and all gods as just one. Here is a sample:

deyvam palappala sollip-pagait
tIyai vaLarppavar mUDar
uyvadanaittilum onRAy-engum
OrporuLAnadu deyvam

tIyinaik kumbiDum pArppAr-nittam
dikkai vaNangum turukkar
kOyiR ciluvaiyin munnE-ninRu
kumbiDum yEsu madattAr

Those who profess by their own gods and breed enmity among people are stupid. There is only one essential god in all the life forms.

The brahmins worship the fire (agni). The muslims offer their prayer everyday facing the direction (of MeccA). The Christians worship in front of the cross at the churches. They are all worshipping just one god. Let us not quarrel among ourselves.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Jan 2007, 09:29

Those who profess by their own gods and breed enmity among people are stupid
They are all worshipping just one god

Problem with man is two fold:
Complicated truths, he cannot Understand.
Simple truths , he forgets easily !!

mahakavi
I cannot make the imaginary all-expenses-paid-trip, that you offer.
But I can narrate my experience with a very strange Gentleman , while on a Train Journey from Chennai to Mumbai.
I was barely a few months into my career (after Graduation ) and I was travelling by First Class.We were only two in our Compartment and this Old gentleman sitting across me was wearing dark Specs.I am generally uneasy with people who dont reveal their eyes to me(unless they are blind , ofcourse) and was keeping my own counsel.
After an hours journey, he spoke first but exhorted me :
"Dont tell me your name! the moment we reveal it to each other, we will quickly find out what religions we belong to and that may color our interactions for the next 30 hours.
What do you say to this idea.We will travel the full distance without discussing our names or religions !)
I thought he was a queer guy , but he started opening beautifully.He was a Retired GM in the Railways(Signals) and went on to educate me ,about how the whole complicated system worked.
Discussions moved on to other areas as well.By afternoon , he was chastising me for not pursuing my interest in Sanskrit and went into some detail about how Sanskrit fascinated him (he was some scholar on the subject )
By the Time we approached Bhiwandi, the next day , I had made up my mind that this was some Yagneswar Dixit or Thatwamasi Dixit, but then Mumbai was still an hour away.
Barely ten minutes before alighting he introduced himself.
"That was a fine journey, my Lad.Sorry for the inconvenience of my small trick.My real name is Thameezuddin and it translates into "A man of good manners ".
I have always found this method to work , when I want to get straight to the person inside.This is a beautiful Country isnt it ?
No matter what the Politicians say . I wont say the Solutions are simple, but if only each of us could master our religions before lifting the club to strike.....
Good Day , and Good Luck !"

I walked out of the station a changed man that day .

Had I not spent one full night ,fifteen years ago in Jamshedpur, huddled up -terrorised-in a corner of my home with my Dad and Mom, with a marauding mob outside my house.The only member of the Sikh Family that survived that night(across the street) was a 8 year old kid who had locked himself up in the bathroom..

This Gentleman put everything in perspective for me.
As I write these words , I am listening to
BGAK singing
Mahadeva Maheswar..( I dont remember Bade Saab singing any compsoition on Allah )
Jasraj Singing " Allah Jane ...."
Rashid Khan singing " Khelath Nand Laala"
Wasifuddin Dagar singing " Niraakar Para Brahma "..

can this thread take a few sample clips ?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jan 2007, 10:44

Cool,
As usual, you deliver the message (here, of bhArathi and so many others to whom humanity matters and religion is directional rather than mere excercises in dogma). Your personal experiences add substance to ideas and ideals that we discuss here. To this day, we are made to realize that music and other forms of art overcome castes, creeds and territories (George Harrison's Bangla Desh concerts, MSS's concerts, to name a few). dhanyavAd, shukriyA--for your 'jog us from torpor' tales...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Jan 2007, 12:42

So I take it that these sample excerpts are not out-of-place here.

Allah jane -PANDIT Jasraj.mp3
http://file.uploadr.com/c555

Mahadev Maheswar-Bade Ghulam Ali KHAN.mp3
http://file.uploadr.com/c557

Niraakar Para Brahma- WASIFUDDIN Dage.mp3
http://file.uploadr.com/c559

Rashid Khan Singing-Khelath Nand Laala.mp3
http://file.uploadr.com/c55a

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 29 Jan 2007, 13:17

coolji,, they are IN PLACE here..!! and everywhere.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jan 2007, 15:42

Shashi,
I can't download any of the above...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Jan 2007, 15:52

now you can..

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 29 Jan 2007, 20:14

coolkarni sir.. the links are not available. i just tried

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jan 2007, 20:40

I could! I found it a bit difficult at first. I tried again--and heard Rashid Khan sing ban mE khElath nandlAl! I went to his concert in December and was waiting to hear him again, and here he is! Thanks, Shashi...

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 29 Jan 2007, 20:42

and where is subramanya bharathi by the way?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jan 2007, 21:02

He is in Banares, listening to gavaiyyAs, being inspired to sing nanda lAlA, traversing the north of India, singing: ellOrum Or kulam, ellOrum Or inam, ellOrum india makkaL...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 29 Jan 2007, 21:10

Bharathi is everywhere wherever music, poetry, religious tolerance and oneness of humanity prevail. That is not very many places in this planet earth but they are quite sacrosanct. That is enough and if only that spirit gets infectious then it forebodes well.

Bharathi stood for national integration with his famous song,

"bhArata dEsamenRu peyar solluvAr ....
engaL bhArata dEsamenRu tOL koTTuvOm...
sindunadiyin misai nilavinilE, sEra nannATTiLam peNgaLuDanE sundarattelunginil pATTisaittE...
kAsinagarp pulavar pEsum urai tAn kAnjciyil kETpadaRkOr karuvi seyvOm..
singa marATTiyartam kavitai koNDu sErattu dandangaL parisaLippOm"

In addition he made the (arguably) first plea for integration of rivers in India,
vangattil ODi varum nIrin migaiyAl maiyattu nADugaLil payir seyguvOm

"Let us utilize the excess waters that flow into Bengal (and the bay of Bengal) for crop cultivation in central India".

At the end of the song (13 stanzas in all) Bharathi talks about the two castes (only two) mentioned by avvaiyAr which was quoted by rshankar earlier in this thread. Bharathi's definition of upper and lower castes differs slightly from that of avvaiyAr. avvaiyAr said iTTAr periyOr iDAdAr izhikulattOr "those who give (help) are lofty and those who don't are lowly". Bharathi added an extra dimension to that by saying "those who help others by observing justice and righteousness are the higher caste folks and the rest belong to the lower caste"

Very fitting, right?