Music Season from an Artist's Perception

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 31 Dec 2006, 10:11

http://www.hindu.com/ms/2006/12/29/stor ... 200800.htm

I found this interesting...especially their views on vocalists from the time they were accompanists!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jan 2007, 08:45

Mark Twain had not foreseen the possiibility of two vocalists addressing themselves as WE when he wrote those famous words :
"Only Emperors , Editors and Men with tapeworm have the right to address themselves as WE".

On a serious note , their cry about Instrumentalists is not justified.With the exception of the likes of Ravikiran ,there is hardly anyone who can do justice to a full length Instrumental Concert.
There are swarms and swarms of accompanists(and i am not referring to percussionists here-only Violinists) , who can toe the main artists line of thought ..but an instrumental concert...
Some day , probably Balsai will get his due place in the scheme of things with his flute, or an AK Devi with her Veena ...
who knows.....

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Jan 2007, 09:49

,It is interesting to hear the performers' view for a change. After all, we spout our views unreservedly about them. If only we had more of an inkling about their views, we would be better off as rasikAs. For instance, the popular view that some top singers (especially the female of the species) are only after money and would give any number of performances--never mind the quality. The sisters seem to favor lesser number of concerts and more oppurtunities for listening. Yes, when the lives of performers are riddled with the business side of their existence, nurturing their music can be impeded.
Nothing like listening to a live concert, I agree, and it is not impossible. At least, the male performers seem to do it, even with a busy schedule. Vijay Siva, Sanjay (who attended a few--one immediately after his own concert (TNS at
the Academy). Others were there too, I hear. However, it is easier for them to enter the hall unnoticed, unlike their fairer counterparts...

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 01 Jan 2007, 11:47

The sisters have a very valid point.

there are too many concerts and performing artists can no way give their normal, leave alone the best concerts.

To even sit and listen to too many concerts introduces fatigue.
This season, i was just fatigued and have to make a great effort to go to temple on the Ekadhasi day. I can understand how the artists would feel..

There needs to be better system, a sytem where artists get sufficient rest and they can perform in rotation.

These artists are God chosen and are divine gifts to us.
It does not matter whether if some are too young and inexperienced.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 03 Jan 2007, 06:07

And Ravikiran seems to content himself with playing keeravani wherever he goes!

(Couldn't resist that dig at him).

As for instrumentalists, there is still the old guard of TNK, MSG and LGJ. Although none of their offspring or disciples have shown any great promise (hearing Narmada 'man'handle soothing ragas is almost painful), maybe in a few years time... In fact LGJ's son and daughter aren't half bad. If only they developed a style of their own... What we need is a great vainika. Gayathri (or however she chooses to spell her name) is the only artiste with some claim to brilliance. Others I frankly don't know of. We have never had a proper veena concert in Singapore for the past 12 years I think (although Gayathri may have turned up once).

Regarding schedules, why do artistes force themselves through such a crazy schedule? And what is an optimal number? 10? 5? 20? While the sisters' view is certainly justified and correct, what surprises me is their surprise or shock at the state of affairs regarding numbers of concerts. Yes, artistes should perform less, but often the lures of fame and fortune are just a bit too great.

And Hindu should look into doing some editing of their articles. From what I recall, KVN passed away a good number of years ago. So unless someone channelled his spirit, or the Sisters were referring to an older concert, or recordings it will be a bit of a shock to me to hear that KVN performed this season! Maybe the Almighty decided to let Chennaiites have one more chance to hear at what chaste, clean music sounded like... And give TNS fans something to think about! (Couldn't resist that either!)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 03 Jan 2007, 07:32

bala747 wrote:And Hindu should look into doing some editing of their articles. From what I recall, KVN passed away a good number of years ago. So unless someone channelled his spirit, or the Sisters were referring to an older concert, or recordings it will be a bit of a shock to me to hear that KVN performed this season! Maybe the Almighty decided to let Chennaiites have one more chance to hear at what chaste, clean music sounded like... And give TNS fans something to think about! (Couldn't resist that either!)

Bala,
This is one instance where I do not see a need for Hindu to exercise 'editorial' skills: It was clear to me in the context of the article that R&G were referring to the past when they used to attend the Madras music season as girls growing up in Bombay, and contrasting it to the current situation when they are performers!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 03 Jan 2007, 10:56

Shankar, I agree. It was quite clear to me what era of the music season and KVN the sisters were referring to.

I take strong exception to Bala's other statements.

bala747 wrote:As for instrumentalists, there is still the old guard of TNK, MSG and LGJ. Although none of their offspring or disciples have shown any great promise (hearing Narmada 'man'handle soothing ragas is almost painful), maybe in a few years time... In fact LGJ's son and daughter aren't half bad. )

Bala, I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but isn't that a harsh sweeping statement? Such one-sided statements are hurtful and not constructive in spirit. Also, what do you mean by "none" of their disciples have shown any great promise? A very large number of leading violinists (and indeed some talented vocalists) today are disciples of the big three. Several of them give solo performances to audiences large and small, in India and abroad (US/UK/Canada). Many of them also routinely win awards at the MA sadas etc.

BTW, Dr. Narmada is an excellent musicologist and a highly skilled musician. And Ravikiran is constantly pushing the boundaries of very high standards in classicism. What do you mean by "being content with himself" by playing Keeravani wherever he goes?

From my reading of R-G in the Hindu, they were lamenting the fact that the audience does not take to attending instrumental concerts, not at the shortage of instrumentalists. This music season alone the Music academy featured 14+ instrumental concerts over 16 days, many in the prime time slots with violin recitals by GJR/Vijayalakshmi, T Rukmini, Mysore Nagaraj/Manjunath, Ganesh-Kumaresh & TNK. This is many more than there have been even in the most active periods of the big three. Senior veena spots were filled by D Balakrishnan
& Karaikudi Subramanian (both excellent and very scholarly musicians; last year the veena list included Padmavathy mami & Jayanthi + E Gayathri). Throw in Ramani, Ravikiran, Mandolin Srinivas, Shashank and you get a galaxy of great instrumentalists.

I think one needs to think of how many amazing vidwans there are out there with a sense of humility, before making bald statements like: there are no good instrumentalists out there. If Singapore has not heard a good veenai recital in recent years, I would think of it as Singapore's loss and not necessarily as lack of vidwans of high calibre. Even TNS, who Bala could not resist taking digs at, is a top-class veena player.

R-G's comments specifically stemmed from the reaction that they got from the audience when they decided to play the violin instead of giving a vocal performance this season. On the contrary, instrumentalists seem to enjoy a well-established presence in Hindustani music. Somehow in CM we believe that a soloist can only emerge after playing years of second fiddle (no pun intended) to major vidwans. This perception needs to change.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 03 Jan 2007, 14:41

Ah the almighty Maha Vishnu himself has spoken to this mere mortal!

Isn't that validation enough?!

(BTW MV, if you been reading my posts you should know by now that I always make tongue in cheek remarks).

One can hardly call T Rukmini a "young" or modern day artiste. I should have qualified my comments better there!

Apologies.

My context was currently upcoming artistes. I consider Ganesh Kumaresh, Nagaraj/Manjunath, and GJR/Vijayalakshmi as distinctly second grade when compared to the likes of the violin trinity or Chandrasekhar or Dwaram Mangathayaru. Good, but nowhere near that mark and there is very little differentiation between the current lot. They all seem to be made from some cookie mould. Lalgudi's kids are an exception but they play like a xerox of Lalgudi, and frankly Narmada may be a music scholar, but she manhandles ragas and krithis. Even MSG himself is guilty of tossing sahityam out of the window when playing krithis and Narmada takes it even further. She has inherited the technical wizardry from MSG but has none of the warmth as far as raga rendition is concerned.

As for the Ravikiran dig, read my previous posts on how artistes take overseas audiences for granted. I shall not repeat it as I have done it quite a few times in the past. His raga of choice seems to be Keeravani ad nauseam.

I didn't say there are NO veena artistes of high calibre. I say we need more GREAT vainikas. I said there are no GREAT (a word I use for only the best of the best), vainikas, not that there are no good vainikas at all. Even Gayathri I wouldn't call great. Very good, top class,but not great. Pardon me for having such high standards

but the veena is the most melodious instrument in the world and nothing but the best in it would do for me.

As for TNS, he sang a concert here that was better forgotten (unless you have ears that needed unblocking).

Again MV, don't take my comments to heart. I always talk like this

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 03 Jan 2007, 23:02

Bala, I see your point. Thanks for the clarifications.

In any case, here's an interesting piece on instrumentalists in CM from today's Hindu:
http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/01/03/stor ... 200100.htm

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 03 Jan 2007, 23:12

It's a bit sad that some of the good violinists today (ganesh-kumaresh, lalgudi brother-sister, and even mysore nagaraj-manjunath) seldom perform as accompanists. Don't they realize that the masters we all venerate and respect, e.g. Lalgudi, TNK, MC, etc. made their name mainly as accompanists? Or is it that they feel today's vocalists don't deserve their accompaniment?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jan 2007, 00:01

Nagaraj and Manjunath do accompany vocalists. So does Lalgudi Vijayalakshmi. I went to a concert at Mudhra this season where Nagaraj accompanied TMK. He was an asset...

humdinger · Post by **humdinger** » 04 Jan 2007, 00:01

Jayaram, i disagree about mysore brothers. They regularly keep accompanying....from young vocalists like abhishek raghuram to the veterans like RK Srikantan, i have seen them accompanying many here...

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 04 Jan 2007, 03:50

Ok, I stand corrected. I still feel that some of the younger (good) violinists don't seem to take as much interest in accompanying as their seniors did. The 'CD culture' may have something to do with it.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 04 Jan 2007, 05:34

jayaram, very true.

Ganesh/Kumaresh and the Lalgudi offspring apart from some brief forays earlier in their careers have not done much accompanying. Artistes like MSG used to accompany vidwans right up to the early 90's. TNK gave up accompanying 'early' about the time he was kalanidhi'ed, but he still accompanied SSI. I have heard LGJ accompany artistes like Santhanam, TNS and others upto 1986. Considering they started performing in the 40's that is a lot of experience. Their kids have nowhere near that level of experience of accompanying top artistes (and dealing with artistes who think it's honour enough they play for them, an how dare they ask for renumeration!)

But on the other hand there are some very good violinists who are for some reason not making the jump to solo. Nagai Muralidharan comes to mind.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Jan 2007, 11:11

bala747
Welcome back in your true boeing 747 style.I have only heard LGJ and TNK in solo.Once I heard L.Subramaniam in mysore.

Based on the nAdham and bowing that i hear as accompanists,I like vittal rAmamurthy and charumathi raghuraman. In this season they gave solo concerts , but I missed them. Also I see RKSK-VaradarAjan also sometimes playing together.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 05 Jan 2007, 05:35

But the violinist par excellence in my view is Dwaram Mangathayaru. In many Mali concerts it was she who actually carried him to a decent concert! (My grandfather would recall when he was stoned out of his skull with drugs or alcohol or whatever in Bombay, she virtually played a violin solo in between his peeps) Her raga alapanas and spontaneity in swaras (and patience) even put great accompanists like M Chandrasekharan in the shade. I suppose it was because she used to accompany a certifiable nutcase like Mali almost every concert that she never rose to prominence. Criminally underrated violinist. I would pay a king's ransom (from what I can afford from my meagre pay, it must be a pretty small kingdom!) for a solo performance of hers.

Vittal Ramamurthy gave a decent concert here in Singapore a few years back (about 2001 or 2002 I think). I only heard RKSK in accompaniment roles. Another violinist I think who should be playing more solo.

I never liked the LS brothers. They play well enough and have quite a degree of technical mastery but their playing lacks any bhavam and beauty. they have a bull in china shop approach to music, and are overrated. But thank the heavens above they're not Kunnakudi!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Jan 2007, 11:11

I must get to hear this Kunnakudi you guys talk about one day!

I heard MSG accompany TNS on my first visit to India in 1997: it seems I was very lucky.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jan 2007, 11:16

Nick !
You must hear and SEE !!

make sure you take a front seat,...

on a serious note , you will not be disappointed.
based on your interest in the laya aspect.Kunnakudi-Valayapatti used to be such huge draws at KGS and great experiences.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 05 Jan 2007, 22:11

I once watched an interview of KV. He clearly states he plays for the mass for them to get initiated to CM. He even demonstrated how he can play seriously as well as ...well the way he plays.

I know couple of people who started listening to other great CM masters and they owe them to KV for initially getting them interested.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 06 Jan 2007, 17:40

Mysore Nagaraj is anything but "second grade".

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 08 Jan 2007, 05:59

Suji, that may be the case for some of the stuff he plays, but I fail to see how playing songs from the film 'Rangeela' gets people initiated into CM.

(Concert in Bombay sometime in 1996). The last thing a concert goer wants to hear is violin renditions of Urmila Mantondkar's gyrations as she lips synchs to 'Hai Rama yeh kya hua'. As for the aesthetics of it, Urmila in a shorty-short dress is far more pleasing to the eye than a man with a traffic light on the centre of his forehead, leading a motley crew of drum-bangers!

I fail to buy that argument of 'playing for the masses'. It shows that he considers the masses to be complete dullards who can only be coerced into CM by listening to crap like that on a concert platform. Also the man's shenanigans prove that he doesn't give a jot about the 'masses' but is just interested in his own name and fame, no matter what he says. LEt me explain.

His 'serious' repertoire is fairly standard fare at least from what I have heard. The same old Vathapi and Samajavaragamana stuff. Raga alapanas are mediocre to bad, but there are spots of good playing, swara patterns are interesting but htey appear to be rehearsed ad nauseam and completely devoid of spontaneity.

I also fail to see how 'inventing' a raga after a morbidly obese former actress and chief minister has anything to do with initiating 'the masses' into CM. Let him play a decent raga first and then maybe someone will play a RTP in "Jayalalitha" ragam (Shudders).

Incidentally, isn't he the chap who tried to play Amrithavarshini in a failed attempt to coerce rain onto Chennai? And he is now running a tax-payer funded "Raga Research Centre". It seems that the man is an eternal blowhard who would do anything for his 15 minutes of fame. While that is not essentially wrong, at least if he had the kind of skill to match his shenanigans he would be tolerated. He is just a mediocre hack who by hook and crook, has risen to some prominence.

(Just for the fact that she promised him a Bharat Ratna I hope Jayalalithaa never becomes CM of Tamil Nadu again!)

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 09 Jan 2007, 03:07

deleted

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 09 Jan 2007, 03:44

Guys, please, can we show some restraint and not ridicule artistes to such an extent on a public forum like this? I am not a big fan of KV, mind you, but so much of muck-raking is not warranted, I feel. Thankyou.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 09 Jan 2007, 11:17

Moderators where are you.????????

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 24 Jan 2007, 17:30

mahesh3 wrote:Mysore Nagaraj is anything but "second grade".

Listen to the RTP at http://www.carnaticliveconcerts.com/cgi ... e.cgi?TVS1 and then come back whether Nagaraj is "sendond grade" , whatever that means

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 24 Jan 2007, 19:49

Sunayanaa,

I was disagreeing with Bala747 when he mentioned that Mysore Nagaraj was "second grade". I think he is an atist par excellence. I am unable to get the Keeravani RTP to play...whats your opinion?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Jan 2007, 20:35

i will put up one shortly , to prove it , Mahesh..

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 24 Jan 2007, 21:55

to prove what, K-ji? That he is or he isn't "second grade"!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Jan 2007, 22:02

second to none

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 24 Jan 2007, 22:48

Many thanks! we r speaking the same language, after all

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jan 2007, 23:29

houdurI

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 24 Jan 2007, 23:34

I got to attend a lec dem by the Mysore brothers few months ago in a tiny room with ~ 25 people. They treated us to wonderful playing without mike.

Coolkarni, Looking forward to some clip.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 24 Jan 2007, 23:55

Not sure why we have to prove a self-evident truth. The Mysore brothers are excellent violinists indeed.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 25 Jan 2007, 00:43

It is interesting to see so many 'Mysore Brothers'.

I knew only R Visweswaran, R Satyanarayana etc (vainikas) being refered to as Mysore Brothers.
Recently came to know that even Veena Raja Rao and his brother were also called Mysore Brothers.
Of course, we have Nagaraj and Manjunath.
Violinist Mysore Srikanth and flautist V K Raman are brothers too !

-Ramakriya

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Jan 2007, 06:17

Not sure why we have to prove a self-evident truth

We need some reason to upload a track, dont we ?

Suji,
Yes .They come out as fine ,thinking human beings - in such interactions.
Last month , Nagaraj gave a memorable display for us - a bunch of three- in a friends place about the challenges of accompanying a wide variety of vocalists
- that tiny little window of opportunity they get in displaying their own manodharma .
- the importance of the first few phrases , while shadowing the main artist , which gets them committed to either a safe mode or a challenging mode , etc
Went on to explain this by opening up kharaharapriya in 6 different ways..
He was singing , all the while ..
BTW we have a standing offer from them to play for us rasikaorgites as and when we get started.They are extremely committed to perform / interact , in an educative mode.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Jan 2007, 06:20

WOW! that is great indeed...

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 25 Jan 2007, 06:44

BTW we have a standing offer from them to play for us rasikaorgites as and when we get started.

That's great! Now we don't have reason to wait any longer to get started with our rasika 'sabha'. Ahem, ahem.

Cool-garu, are you listening??

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Jan 2007, 06:50

We should get started in April.
It will not be an ONLY rasikaorgite show , since a substantial part of this circle of enthusiasts are not net-savvy.
But that should not matter.
We have located a quiet place in W Mambalam which can hold 20-30 people.
Watch out for an introductory Note on this , which I will put up , sometime in the first week of Febr.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Jan 2007, 08:49

http://rapidshare.com/files/13257838/Ra ... i.mp3.html

Nagraj-Manjunath-K Mani-V Suresh

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Jan 2007, 09:01

Mahadevappa's sons, Nagaraj and Manjunath are two gentlemen from Mysuru who play awesome pitilu. Nagaraj, low key but full of verve and humor. Dr. Manjunath, adventerous in his playing and bubbling with energy, has his ruminative moments too...

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 25 Jan 2007, 09:49

Fellow Rasikas,

Talking of "Mysore Brothers", don't forget the erudite and very artistic Rudrapatnam Brothers - R. N. Thyagarajan and R. N. Tharanathan. Great musicians are just that, no matter which salt of the earth they imbibed.

humdinger · Post by **humdinger** » 25 Jan 2007, 11:12

nagaraj and manjunath..this awesome two-some are in a class of their own among violin duet players.

there was a concert of them here in bangalore few weeks back as a part of Sri Vadirajaswamy aradhana series. with sri bhakthavatsalam and sri vaikom as pakka vadya players. a great concert that was...i have heard one of the best kanada till date there. and a magnificient keeravani. not to forget that breath taking nalinakanthi.

It was video recorded. if any of you have contacts with Sri Vadirajaswamy trust of sri RK padmanabha, i suppose you can acquire a recording of it. dont miss it.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 25 Jan 2007, 13:02

I too found them to be of a very high standard though my music appreciation skills are no match to others on this forum. I attended the Academy concert and I think they played the Saveri varnam, Vachaspati and Madyamavathi. I was hoping somebody would review that concert.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Jan 2007, 15:24

Had to miss that concert (reluctantly) to go to a family event. Heard Nagaraj play for TMK at Mudhra. Great support! Ran into him again in Chennai. Could not hear Manjunath though, this season...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 25 Jan 2007, 22:32

coolkarni wrote:We should get started in April.
It will not be an ONLY rasikaorgite show , since a substantial part of this circle of enthusiasts are not net-savvy.
But that should not matter.
We have located a quiet place in W Mambalam which can hold 20-30 people.
Watch out for an introductory Note on this , which I will put up , sometime in the first week of Febr.

Wish I could be there. Maybe hear over the SKYPE live?

Thanks for the clip. It was a wonderful post dinner treat. Heard it with a nostalgia- Reminded me of Radio sangeet sammelan days with my parents.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 26 Jan 2007, 06:20

Thanks, K-ji. It is so easy to just dismiss all the talent that abounds these days....as good as some of the yesteryear greats were, it is wrong to say that today's talent is "second grade". The word "Distinct" attached to "second grade" makes matters worse...I can understand naming one or two individual artists here and there as "second grade".... but describing the cream of a whole generation of talented, hardworking, still-with-potential for greatness...artists as "second grade" doesn't cut ice.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 26 Jan 2007, 07:02

Agree.
Part of the Problem is the fact that TNK-Lalgudi-MSG have taken it to such great heights that everyone looks second grade !;)
And the best thing I like about these Brothers is that they still believe that accompanying is something close to their heart.
In fact more challenging than Solos.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 26 Jan 2007, 09:19

Hi when I said 'second grade', I was referring to simply the fact that Nagaraj and Manjunath have potential and have performed very well for years but still have some way to go before they can be considered in the same league as MSG/LGJ/TNK (although TNK used to get 'lazy' in his solo concerts but was a brilliant accompanist). They are accompanists of the highest order, and I particularly prefer Mysore Manjunath who has a less aggressive approach than Nagaraj. I realise it was a mistake to include them with other violinists and clump the whole lot of them. I was trying to make two points with one set of examples. Sorry about that.

I didn't mean it in a derogatory way by any stretch. I love hearing both of them. I still can't forget the look of awe on Shashank's face when Manjunath ran rings around him in a Purvikalyani RTP here in Singapore. Oh by the way I love his flute but that day Manjunath was simply spectacular.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:25

"They are accompanists of the highest order..."

Bala747, Point taken

!

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 27 Jan 2007, 12:52

mahesh3 wrote:Sunayanaa,

I was disagreeing with Bala747 when he mentioned that Mysore Nagaraj was "second grade". I think he is an atist par excellence. I am unable to get the Keeravani RTP to play...whats your opinion?

To play that clip 1) you should use Internet Explorer 2) Disable all popups or enable pop up windows for the website www.carnaticliveconcerts.com