Does Sadharna Ga actually come in Brindavani Saaranga?
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Hello everyone,
Does Brindavani Saaranga actually take a Sadharna Ga?
As far as I have heard, I can only hear :
AAROHANA - SA, CHATUSHRUTI RI, SUDDHA MA, PA, KAAKALI NI, SA
AVAROHANA - SA, KAISHIKI NI, PA, SUDDHA MA, CHATUSHRUTI RI, SA.
For instance, Kamalaptha kula and Kaliyuga varadhan songs, I really didn't hear a 'Sadharna Ga' in them. Correct me if I am wrong.
I will appreciate if somebody can comment and clarify on this.
Thanks,
Nandy.
Does Brindavani Saaranga actually take a Sadharna Ga?
As far as I have heard, I can only hear :
AAROHANA - SA, CHATUSHRUTI RI, SUDDHA MA, PA, KAAKALI NI, SA
AVAROHANA - SA, KAISHIKI NI, PA, SUDDHA MA, CHATUSHRUTI RI, SA.
For instance, Kamalaptha kula and Kaliyuga varadhan songs, I really didn't hear a 'Sadharna Ga' in them. Correct me if I am wrong.
I will appreciate if somebody can comment and clarify on this.
Thanks,
Nandy.
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Good question. Rangapuravihara by MD shows usage of sadharana gandhara, though very limited. Not all songs in this raga use G1 though, which would mean it is used occassionally & you can pull off the raga even without ever using G1.
Depending on the composition, there are 2 versions of murchana for this raga:
1. SRMPN3S - SN2PMRS
2. SRMPN3S - SN2PMRG1S
(janya of Kharaharapriya)
However, the names Brindavani & Brindavanasaranga seem to be used interchangeably. Besides the scale 1. above, I believe Brindavani also can be sung with the following scale:
AAROHANA - SRMPN3S
AVAROHANA - SN3PN2PMRS
(N3 being kakali nishadam and N2 being kaisiki nishadam)
The rendition of Soundararajam by TNS on musicindiaonline is interesting:
1. The ragamudra in the song is 'Brindavanasaranga'.
2. There are traces of G1 in the song.
3. His alapana & swarakalpana don't show G1 at all.
Again, the usage of G1 also seems to differ from artist to artist. I have heard Soundararajam being sung without a gandhara too.
I wonder if Brindavani & Brindavanasaranga were actually supposed to be two different ragas with G1 being used in the latter only. Maybe over time some artists looked upon them as one and the same?? Some artists may still be treating them as two different ragas??
Comments welcome.
Depending on the composition, there are 2 versions of murchana for this raga:
1. SRMPN3S - SN2PMRS
2. SRMPN3S - SN2PMRG1S
(janya of Kharaharapriya)
However, the names Brindavani & Brindavanasaranga seem to be used interchangeably. Besides the scale 1. above, I believe Brindavani also can be sung with the following scale:
AAROHANA - SRMPN3S
AVAROHANA - SN3PN2PMRS
(N3 being kakali nishadam and N2 being kaisiki nishadam)
The rendition of Soundararajam by TNS on musicindiaonline is interesting:
1. The ragamudra in the song is 'Brindavanasaranga'.
2. There are traces of G1 in the song.
3. His alapana & swarakalpana don't show G1 at all.
Again, the usage of G1 also seems to differ from artist to artist. I have heard Soundararajam being sung without a gandhara too.
I wonder if Brindavani & Brindavanasaranga were actually supposed to be two different ragas with G1 being used in the latter only. Maybe over time some artists looked upon them as one and the same?? Some artists may still be treating them as two different ragas??
Comments welcome.
Last edited by Music on 23 Dec 2006, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Music and Jyothsna_music,
I got this detail from an article in the Hindu published for the Dec,2006 music festival..
Brindavana Saranga : This raga has two versions.
In the version of Muthuswami Dikshitar it is known as Brindavani in which he has composed `Sri Soundararajam' and `Rangapura Vihara'. This version of the raga has only very minimal usage of kakali nishada if at all a very suggestive anuswara touch. This raga has become known as Brindavana Saranga now.
The other version has liberal usage of both the nishadas, which is akin to its North Indian counterpart. It has been known here as Sohini.
Nandy.
I got this detail from an article in the Hindu published for the Dec,2006 music festival..
Brindavana Saranga : This raga has two versions.
In the version of Muthuswami Dikshitar it is known as Brindavani in which he has composed `Sri Soundararajam' and `Rangapura Vihara'. This version of the raga has only very minimal usage of kakali nishada if at all a very suggestive anuswara touch. This raga has become known as Brindavana Saranga now.
The other version has liberal usage of both the nishadas, which is akin to its North Indian counterpart. It has been known here as Sohini.
Nandy.
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drshrikaanth,
Well I also thought Sohini was completely different, probably I got it wrong from the review.
Can read this on the below link, towards the end.
http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/01/02/stor ... 140300.htm
Sorry about creating a confusion
Nandy.
Well I also thought Sohini was completely different, probably I got it wrong from the review.
Can read this on the below link, towards the end.
http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/01/02/stor ... 140300.htm
Sorry about creating a confusion
Nandy.
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Even though there are pAthAntaras of bRndAvana sAranga with kAkali nishAda in ArOhaNa, use of kAkali nishAda is not really a must.Nandy wrote:rbharath,
Only difference between, madhyamavati and Brindavani saranga is Aarohanam- Kakali nishadam in B. Saranga and Kaisiki nishadam in Madhyamavati. Avarohanam is the same.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nandy.
-Ramakriya
http://rapidshare.com/files/10297709/br ... a.mp3.html
maybe this is of some help ??
gs mani and rajaguru - two tracks I Love
maybe this is of some help ??
gs mani and rajaguru - two tracks I Love
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nandy,Nandy wrote:rbharath,
Only difference between, madhyamavati and Brindavani saranga is Aarohanam- Kakali nishadam in B. Saranga and Kaisiki nishadam in Madhyamavati. Avarohanam is the same.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nandy.
i do not know which is right. i m just contemplating what i know. However, i can assure you of one thing. i will try to check various sources of information and try to compile the rAga description and post it here, whenever i can.
What i am told is that, the nishadam of brindavana sAranga is somewhere in between kaisiki and kAkali. like the gauLipantu madhyamam or the sahAnA gAndhAram.
I will try to get more information on this.
bharath
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This is exactly what I was meaning to say - That nishAda has more shades of kaishiki, than kAkali.rbharath wrote:What i am told is that, the nishadam of brindavana sAranga is somewhere in between kaisiki and kAkali. like the gauLipantu madhyamam or the sahAnA gAndhAram.
bharath
I will try to pull in some info which may be in some of my e-mail archives too
-Ramakriya
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i did check some places.
vrindAvani / brindAvani / brindAvana SArangA
Uniformly this ragam is listed under the 22nd melam. with sAdharaNa gAndhAram being the bhAshAnga svaram
SSP or Sangraha Chudamani do not indicate the usage of kAkali nishAda anywhere. The bhAshAnga charecter is only because of the usage of gA in some sancarams.
vrindAvani / brindAvani / brindAvana SArangA
Uniformly this ragam is listed under the 22nd melam. with sAdharaNa gAndhAram being the bhAshAnga svaram
SSP or Sangraha Chudamani do not indicate the usage of kAkali nishAda anywhere. The bhAshAnga charecter is only because of the usage of gA in some sancarams.
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According to the lec-dem by T M Krishna in Shimoga available for listening (and downloading ) here...
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... index.html
TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE:
He clearly mentions that bRndAvana sAraMga and bRndAvani are NOT THE SAME!
BRndAvana sAraMga has only kAkali nishAda and no kaishiki nishAda. However, a more popular and a more "hindustAni" counterpart is bRndAvani which accomodates both nishAda (kaishiki and kAkali). It even has a "vivAdi" S' Ni3 Ni2 prayOga. He mentions that this is not accpetable in bRndAvana sAraMga! He also touches upon the fact that there is sAdharaNa gAndhAra in dIkShhitar's kRtis such as saundararAjam and rAMgapuravihAra.
this discussion happens at the end of the first clip and the beginning of the second.
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... index.html
TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE:
He clearly mentions that bRndAvana sAraMga and bRndAvani are NOT THE SAME!
BRndAvana sAraMga has only kAkali nishAda and no kaishiki nishAda. However, a more popular and a more "hindustAni" counterpart is bRndAvani which accomodates both nishAda (kaishiki and kAkali). It even has a "vivAdi" S' Ni3 Ni2 prayOga. He mentions that this is not accpetable in bRndAvana sAraMga! He also touches upon the fact that there is sAdharaNa gAndhAra in dIkShhitar's kRtis such as saundararAjam and rAMgapuravihAra.
this discussion happens at the end of the first clip and the beginning of the second.
Last edited by vrbadri on 07 Jan 2007, 01:55, edited 1 time in total.
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vrbadri,
In Hindustani, it is called Vrindaavani Saranga and not Bindavana/Brindavani Saranga.
I heard Sowmya sing Kaliyuga varadhan, Brindavana Saranga, on musicindiaonline.
If I'm not mistaken she sang it more like the Hindustani version, "vivAdi" S' Ni3 Ni2 prayOga included in the end, both the Ni's used.
You can just type - kaliyuga in the search box and you get a list- check out the first song.
In Hindustani, it is called Vrindaavani Saranga and not Bindavana/Brindavani Saranga.
I heard Sowmya sing Kaliyuga varadhan, Brindavana Saranga, on musicindiaonline.
If I'm not mistaken she sang it more like the Hindustani version, "vivAdi" S' Ni3 Ni2 prayOga included in the end, both the Ni's used.
You can just type - kaliyuga in the search box and you get a list- check out the first song.
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nandy:
technically, as far as I know, vrinda=brinda...and I have heard some artists in karNAtaka style call it vRndavana sAraMga (e.g., flute K S Gopalakrishnan, does so....but he is the only person I know....)
and the hindustAni version is described here as....brindAvani sAraMg...and I have to agree I have seen it called as vRndAvani sAraMg. I presume they are the same....
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit10302000/musicarts.asp
-Badri.
technically, as far as I know, vrinda=brinda...and I have heard some artists in karNAtaka style call it vRndavana sAraMga (e.g., flute K S Gopalakrishnan, does so....but he is the only person I know....)
and the hindustAni version is described here as....brindAvani sAraMg...and I have to agree I have seen it called as vRndAvani sAraMg. I presume they are the same....
http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit10302000/musicarts.asp
-Badri.
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vrbadri,
Yes you are right, as per the article , it is called Brindavani sarang.
As per the books I have, it is called Vrindavani sarang as per P.B. Devdhar
and Brindabani sarang as per P. Maanikbuva Thakurdas.
Thanks for the article, probably all our musicians themselves are confused about names because of too many raagas.
Nandy
Yes you are right, as per the article , it is called Brindavani sarang.
As per the books I have, it is called Vrindavani sarang as per P.B. Devdhar
and Brindabani sarang as per P. Maanikbuva Thakurdas.
Thanks for the article, probably all our musicians themselves are confused about names because of too many raagas.
Nandy
: http://rapidshare.com/files/12490894/Vr ... i.mp3.html
: http://rapidshare.com/files/12491761/ME ... R.MP3.html
Sorry .The Vrundavani is not by Paluskar.
Could be Ganpathi Bhatt(Disciple of Basavraj Rajaguru)
also a small audio clip-on megh malhar-from a Ragotsavam program on a channel from Kerala.very nice.
: http://rapidshare.com/files/12491761/ME ... R.MP3.html
Sorry .The Vrundavani is not by Paluskar.
Could be Ganpathi Bhatt(Disciple of Basavraj Rajaguru)
also a small audio clip-on megh malhar-from a Ragotsavam program on a channel from Kerala.very nice.