Established mainstream artists don't sing popular kruthis

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Rasikas,

With the new generation of musicians - sanjay subramanyam,T M Krishna and other younger vidwans-some songs which used to make up a concert have gradually disappeared.
Nowadays the following songs are not heard:
Vatapi Ganapatim
Sri Mahaganapatim manasa smarami
Samajavara gamana
Chakkani raja
Giripai
Palinchu Kamaksi
Endara mahanubavulu
Sri rangapura vihara
Dharini telusukona and some more....

One hears Sri varalakshmi Namostute of Sri raga some times.
The musicians should keep in mind that there are listeners who are experts as well as those who like music,but have no knowledge.Including a couple of common items will
help to retain some music lovers.I have gone thru several concert reviews in the Kutcheri section.But these and some more songs heard during yester years have been slowly eliminated in concert platforms.

[rupavathi]

Sweeping statement based on limited listening... sanjay subrahmanyan & tmkrishna do not represent the beginning and the end of Carnatic music. All the songs listed by you are very much in circulation, if only you care to widen your listening list. It is simply tiresome to listen to the same old complaints year after year... :-@

[Nick H]

Sweeping statement based on limited listening... sanjay subrahmanyan & tmkrishna do not represent the beginning and the end of Carnatic music. ......

And they are certainly not the "new generation!"

They must be around twice the age of the actually new generation. Decidedly middle-aged! )

[sirsub11]

When GNB elaborated Andolika and Kuntalavarali, many initially didn't like it. When BMK sang his own compositions, many went ballistic, ARI's madhyama kala concept was scoffed at, some also felt that Semmangudi was overly obsessed with Sriranjani and Karaharapriya -there's no pleasing some people. And that's the way it goes.

I agree with rupavathi that hnbhagavan is guilty of making sweeping statements, but I disagree with the former's implied comment that the so called middle aged stars don't sing the classics. They do, but if you look at Sanjay's vast repertoire, he is basically mining rarely heard songs from established composers, and other composers from days of yore, whom we have not had the pleasure of listening to. Surely, that has to be a good thing.

Middle aged, Nick H ? In the world of Carnatic music, early to mid 40s should be considered young. It's a relative term.

[hnbhagavan]

It is not a sweeping statement.It is based on last two years of concerts at Bangalore.Although i cannot claim to have covered all the venues,I am basing on concerts at Bangalore Gayana samaja,Fort High School.In MES Kalavedi Sri D Balakrishna played Vatapi.I am considering Sri sanjay,TM Krishna,Malladi Bros etc as the established new generation.In carnatic music generally those in 40-50 are considered new generation.There are upcoming artists still younger in late 20's and 30's.I have given a general observation based on several concerts attended during the last few years.
I am not against including rare krities,new compositions,but i feel a few of the traditional songs my be included in the concerts.

[venkatakailasam]

hnbhagavan has made a simple point...that the NGM do not sing certain compositions..

The answer has to be limited to this only..in my view..

whether so and is ultimate or not in CM

is a deviation.....as he has also added " other younger vidwans' to Sanjay and Krishna

Can't we limit our reply..as such and such vidwans of NGM have rendered this song..

There is some validity in what he is telling..I have not come across any younger vidwans rendering Vatapi...except V Sankara narayanan..
Similarly, Sri Mahaganapatim manasa smarami has not been rendered by NGM.....except middle aged artists...
Samajavara gamana...I have heard only Suryaprakash rendering it....but he is not the one of this NGM group..

Other compositions...sorry..I have not heard them recently..except from OGM....
Not many concerts of these younger vidwans are available...

If anyone from NGM have rendered them, kindly enlighten ...with links..

[hnbhagavan]

Thanks to venkatakailasm Sir for the understanding.I have posted my view after observing many concerts.I am not against new compositions or rarely heard songs.They are welcome.But my point is that one of the old classics can be included in the concerts.Generally i attend concerts in full and hate the sight of people walking out.i have observed some rasikas leave in the middle when they do not get to hear even a single familiar song.

[Rsachi]

HNB,
I fully agree. When I heard the Bhairavi classic Upacharamulanu cEkona from Ramakrishnan Murthy at SRLKM in 2012, I instantly fell in love with his musical values.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear RSachi,

I was misunderstood by some forumites when i said that the old classics are missing from the concert scene.There can be a good mix of newer and rare compositions and the old ones.

[Nick H]

There's nothing wrong with being middle-aged. I wish I was!

No, I don't think you can call someone young when they have been singing for decades and are star-billing hall packers. Sure, they are younger than I am, double-sure, they are younger than the elders, but they are not young. The youngsters, these days, are in their twenties, if not in their teens.

Some of this misapprehension comes from unthinking repetition. I have seen the words, "One of the younger generation of blah blah blah" used of a musician of around thirty years of age, and then copied, word for word, in other blurbs and concert announcements for the next fifteen years. Possibly still being used.

[vasanthakokilam]

It is hard to say something like this without generalizing to some extent and not being exactly right in positioning the point. So we need to more tolerant of the edges being fuzzy.
Let me see if I can rephrase HNB's statement as to what it is and what it is not. His thesis is: 'Established mainstream artists like Sanjay, TMK, Vijaya Siva, Gurucharan, Suryaprakash, Malladi Brothers, Abhishek, Sowmya, Bombay Jayashree, Nithyasree, R&G, Priya Sisters etc' do not sing the well known and (used to be ) oft repeated compositions'.

I am listing names so we exclude artists like Vedavalli, Bombay Sisters, TNS, Santhanagopalan, TMT, Balamurali Krishna, Nedunuri Krishnamurthy, TVS, SRJ, Raji Gopalakrishnan, Rama Ravi, Suguna Purushothaman, Suguna Varadachari etc. and upcoming youngsters like RamakrishnaMurthy, Saketharaman, Sanjeev, Prasanna, Bharat Sundar, Sriranjani Santhanagopalan, Aishwarya and others.

(I know I am missing a lot of names here, not including any instrumentalists etc. This is just to setup the context so we do not argue about the premise)

Speaking just for myself, I have heard enough of Vatapi Ganapatim, Sri Mahaganapatim manasa smarami and Samajavara gamana and so it would not bother me if I do not hear that for a while in live concerts. But HNB's point is quite valid. He is actually putting himself in the position of the non-geek rasikas. I have a mental model of the profile of such rasikas based on a few people I know. I think it is a fair point, they would like to hear familiar songs, just like if I go to a light music concert, I want to hear songs I know and love. For us it is replaced with ragas that we know and love. I think it is a vanishingly small percentage who crave for some totally unknown ragas for the main. For RTP, there may be more takers for such sojourns to unfamiliar and untrodden paths once in a while.

Back to the list, I would not mind repetitions of Chakkani raja, Giripai and Palinchu Kamaksi ( like twice a month)
and Endara mahanubavulu and Sri rangapura vihara a little bit less so, but they are not definitely not the kind 'Oh, not that one again!". I think that is more because they are such substantive compositions there are always something new to pay attention to.

But of course, the main thrust of the thread is not about us but more about rasikas 'out side the beltway'.

[VK RAMAN]

Look at all public light music competitions; most of the songs are from 1960s to 1970s movies; that does not mean the latest songs in latest movies are less melodious. Mix of old and new will be a balancing act.

[arasi]

VKR,
You said it well.

Quality in music matters. So, the old, tried and tested, and greatly loved songs which were savored by rasikAs of several decades are chosen for these contests, I think.

VKokilam,
I am glad you are expanding on the theme. Of course, in long lists, it's impossible to include all, but why do you group NSG among the older artistes? Raji Gopalkrishnan belongs not in the elder artistes category either.

Another thing to consider: we as rasikAs have our favorites and unfavorites in songs--not because they are either excellent or are awful. Oft-repeated songs, even the best of them sometimes get to us--especially when repeated by the same person--even if it's one of the 'gems' in krutis.

hnbhagwan,
Yes, if we spend considerable time on glancing through our years of concert review lists, we can get a fair idea. However, how many artistes get reviewed here? Even if they do, we do not cover more than a small percentage of the concerts they give!

What's more--our list of 'wish I can hear these songs', if you compare notes with fellow-rasikAs, will not be the same at all.

We can't win in getting our wish lists come true. Their wish to please us has the same fate. They make some happy, others, not!

Seems as if a judicious mix of songs from old and new, a generous mix in languages and composers is the best they can do to please at least some rasikAs at any given concert.

Oh dear! Then there are those who love the thukkaDA section and feel cheated if an RTP, main and sub-main take up time and they only get to hear a quick little song and the thillAnA.

So, the musicians can stop worrying (if they do) by going by the gItOpadEsa, to do their best and not be concerned with the results.

We rasikAs are a restless and dissatisfied lot, perhaps

[hnbhagavan]

Thanks to moderator for giving an appropriate title.Among the mainstream artists there are musicians for whom the hall overflows and there are less fortunate ones who sing to a thin or medium crowd.The most notable established ones who attract a large number of rasikas include Sanjay,Malladi Bros,RaGa sisters,TMK(In spite of his new drive to change concert pattern),Bombay Jayashree,Nityashree),Abhishek etc..I noticed that earlier who were in the prime and who still give quality concerts of the likes of Sri TV Shankaranarayanan,TN Seshagopalan are not attracting the same number.Presently this is also true in case of the likes of OST,Vijaya Siva.
In the instrumental category,the scenario is worse.Many sabhas do not feature them at all.The reason given is the thin attendance for such concerts.
I also notice the kind of exodus from the hall just around the middle of concert.This is true for most of the concerts.I am mainly referring to the concerts held at Bangalore.
Rasikas of all kinds will be attending the concerts - Very knowledgeable,Little or no Knowledge - but due to experience in listening are able to appreciate and the third category who enjoy without bothering about technical aspects.In view of this,It is a good practice to provide a balanced fare -Popular classics,rare compositions ,RTP's and Tukkudas.I feel this would help in good attendance in concerts.

[rajeshnat]

Vatapi Ganapatim

I agree with you this krithi is generally gone out of circulation. I think when musician decide to sing submain , this opening krithi is almost like a submain not a shorter ganapathi krithi . So time constraint makes this go out of circulation

Sri Mahaganapatim manasa smarami

There is a recent review of Muscat concert of suryaprakash he has sung this

Samajavara gamana

Not heard this at all for the last few years in a live concert

Chakkani raja

there is a recent review of suryaprakash indira nagar concert

Giripai

This is really rare krithi . I think 90% of musicians wont even know this . I think after MDR , I have heard TNS singing it . In the recent past sowmya and pantula sang giripai . I do recollect abhishek singing this krithi in nanganallur in this year.

Palinchu Kamaksi

very recently arvenky reviewed pattabhi pandit singing in chowdiah , bangalore

Endara mahanubavulu

I usually hear musicians like sreevalsan singing this often . I think this is like vathapi near submain status , people skip it for want of time

Sri rangapura vihara

Very recently kssr reviewed K gayathri singing this

Dharini telusukonti....

Few years back i heard , so u may be right

In short most of the songs are in circulation in the last 3 months , I just recollect fellow reviewers putting it. I think musicians are renewing new and also retaining the old charm for sure.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Sri Rajeshnath,

I agree with you.There have been some odd reports of the old classics sung,but not very often.In the Nadasurabhi,if you look at the 7 day festival at Bangalore,perhaps there may be only couple of old classics in the entire 7 days festival.

[arasi]

Rajesh,
Yes, we had Suryaprakash's Muscat concert reviewed, so we know how old favorites are after all sung by our vidvAns and vidushis here and there, even by looking at Rasikas.org reviews!

If you haven't heard sAmaja vara gamana in a while in Chennai, you can hear it on youtube sung by Sanjay last April right there in the heart of the capitol of CM

[CRama]

Rajesh- Your point to point reply was apt.
Btw, do you have the recording of Giripai by TNS?

[rajumds]

I would add Harikambohi as raga which seems to have fallen out of favour.

In spite of their vast repertoire the previous generation musicians sang only a select set of songs in the concerts and popularised them. So great was their vidwat and grip over the kriti, no two renditions were alike. DKJ rarely sang Balagopla/O Rangasayee /Amba kamakshi. I have never heard SSI / MSS sing some of the MD kritis which were so popular in DKP school. MLV was the one who brought in a wide variety of kritis on the concert stage and in the present generation it was TNS.

My grouse with the newer gen artists is that they present new kritis (may be out of pressure to sing more and more kritis) without internalising and polishing the kritis. They just don't carry the stamp of the performer.

[Rsachi]

THIS is my feeling too:

they present new kritis (may be out of pressure to sing more and more kritis) without internalising and polishing the kritis. They just don't carry the stamp of the performer.

I have said this to some musicians, who made an effort to learn and present songs in a hurry, that unless they really do
"Shravana, manana, nidhidhyasana" for the kriti, they will be just delivering the shell without the content.

There are many technically perfect bharatanatyam and Carnatic presentations I come across routinely. The number of songs, the number of performers, the number of concerts, have all gone up. But rarely, I say rarely, do the presentations have the "soul" of the performer and the bhava+raga+tala+sahitya of the item delivered into my heart and stirring me for a long time afterward. Why is that so?

I must add that there ARE a few singers (for example TM Krishna, Ramakrishnan Murthy, Amritha Murali), and when he/she presents a song, it stays for a while inside me.

In any case, I add the rider that music is subjective and rasikatva is also subjective.

[Nick H]

Usually, from my well-informed friends, I hear it as a matter of praise that an artist has sung new or rarely performed items in a concert, or that they are continually adding to their repertoire, and a criticism of others, some of them quite senior, that "they always sing the same things."

For myslef, I suppose it is pleasant to hear the few songs that I recognise, and a very, very few may have reached oh no not again status but I really do not mind at all what an artist performs.

[ganesh_mourthy]

yes, when a carnatic krithi gets popular by means of cinema ( maha ganapathim) some musicians scrap it off their list as they do not want to hear a comment like " movie song eh!!!, but this version is not as good as that. "

[priyaram78]

As already mentioned in the above posts, I would like to say that it is very difficult to say whether a particular song would be welcomed by all rasikas. A song maybe new for some but for others it may be oft heard. Again, popular kritis are welcome by some but others may prefer new kritis. Overall, I feel, What lay rasikas like me want has more to do about the Raagams of the songs selected. I mean, after a hard days work, office goers, homemakers, students come to the concerts in the evening to enjoy music and feel happy ! They surely enjoy lively raagams like Naatai, Abheri, Kambodhi, Madhyamavathi, Keeravani, surutti and many other such raagams. So more than the songs whether new or popular, it is more about the feel of the Raagams !

[munirao2001]

We must consider three very important aspects, with regard to the art of listening.

One is the state of being of mind sense physically being in the present, but really in the past. One has deep memory of experience of happiness and high value attached, yearning for the recall pleasure. Expectation is artist has to give recall pleasure in the present. In this sense of mind, the present is either totally missed or not given the total attention. With a small percentage of exceptions, the rasikas in the age group above 50 constitute the majority in this group. Currently except for the immensely popular artists, this group forms the majority of the rasikas attending the concerts.

Second is the state of being of mind sense in the present, rejecting the past. With no deep memory of experience of happiness and high value attachment, yearning is for the excitement of novelty and new, experience of taking as it is being offered as a reactive pleasure with contentment for the present lively moments only. The experience is forgotten easily after the end of the listening. With a small percentage of exceptions, the raskas in the age group of 35-50 constitute this group. Mind set of one being with the popularity and current flavor is the drive factor.

Third is the state of being of mind sense in the present, in observation, in total attention, unconditioned, open, experiencing with the flow of music, non judgmental. This is the mind with natural and innate ability to being in the present, not in the past, never in the future. With a small percentage of exceptions, the rasikas constitute in the age group of 10 to 20. With trained mind, in the age group of above 20 and below 35 also belong to this group.

Art of listening rests with the mind sense being in the present and in the happening lively moments, non judgmental with total attention and in relationship with the performing artists. Creative moments should never be missed out.

We must appreciate the fact the challenge for the immensely popular artists to succeed meeting the expectation of majority of the cultivated and following rasikas and also other varied kinds of listeners. They do the balancing act of meeting the expectations of the nostalgia group, excited group and ever critical and analytic group.

munirao2001

[Rsachi]

Munirao sir,
Your points are all very valid.
But I think for me classical music is all a function of memory! My mind listens to the music as if I am in a familiar library and am going around encountering books. I CANNOT listen without thinking about the raga, song words, and if I have heard it before, recalling that experience. This is my problem.

And coming back to the library analogy, if I hear some wonderful music, I will enjoy it as I would read and enjoy a book, whether it is the familiar Wodehouse, the ever-enticing Roald Dahl, the deep and dark Maugham, or the humorous writers and cartoonists... There is joy, sometimes wonderful delight, whether in the familiar or absolutely new, but my memory is like my glasses, which I can't do without

[munirao2001]

Minds ease of comfort is always related to the past, past experience, in deep memory. When one is seemingly listening, the person is always looking for the recall pleasure. Art of listening demands training of the mind and mind to be in the present lively and happening moments, undisturbed by the memory of the past and urge for the recall pleasure. Classical Music is rich mainly because of its potentiality for highest creativity in the present and also for its potentiality for intellectual satisfaction. If creativity is of making more the known, it is re creativity. Original creativity is in making the unknown, known. Unknown is in abstraction. Artists are rare and exceptional if they bring out aesthetic beauty out of abstraction. To experience it, rasikas have to be in the present, unconditioned, determined not to yearn for the recall memory pleasure. Majority of the artists prefer less demanding and less risky proposition of playing safe with focus on the kindling the recall pleasure, with the stated belief of sampradaya sanctity. Forgetting that Sampradaya is derived out of sampada, the gift and the wealth, of one's own offering to the progeny. Rasikas also develop the mindset if the sampradaya of a popular Great Meastro/Maestro is followed, the artists have delivered satisfaction, uncritically and unmindful. The attitude of rasika is one of thanks giving for the delivery of recall pleasure, in reality.
It is like while reading a book of great literature, constantly and parallel comparison with yet another or set of books of great literature. Quality suffers in aggressive or passive comparison and competition.

munirao2001

[arasi]

Sachi,

Can't dispute with a connoisseur like you. Yes, memory has a great deal to do with it. But isn't today's new experience, if it is pleasant, gradually becomes familiar, and during the course of many years finds a place in your heart as a fond memory?

If memory means the repeated pleasant experience of the same familiar song of merit, what chances do we modern day composers have, of even our best compositions ever be heard or appreciated?

Munirao,
Yes, in our minds, the quality of any concert does suffer in comparison--aggressive or passive

[Rsachi]

Arasi,
That is the precise opportunity for a new composition! We will always receive it in full freshness. I remember KVN sang a Ranjani song on Dattatreya in Odakattur in 1993 or so. As he came off the stage, I spoke and asked him whose wonderful composition it was. He said it was of the Mysore swamiji Ganapati Sachidananda-ji. Later I came to know it was actually tuned by KVN himself.
That item sung on Podhigai by KVN is on YouTube.

The only danger to avoid for a composer is to not sound too contrived or like a me-too hotchpotch effort.

[arasi]

We have reacted similarly on first hearing the song...I was simply stunned by the beauty of dattAtrEyAdi when I heard KVN sing it in Connecticut. Its loveliness haunted me for years and I got a recording of it after some years. His prowess as a tune smith is fully seen there.

[Ranganayaki]

Munirao sir,
Your points are all very valid.
But I think for me classical music is all a function of memory!

There is joy, sometimes wonderful delight, whether in the familiar or absolutely new, but my memory is like my glasses, which I can't do without

I think there are no rules on how to listen. That should be a given. Everybody is free to listen as they please and derive the pleasure they are sensitive to. Nobody can dictate that, there is no right way or wrong way to listen. We are all free in the world of our minds and our thoughts and reactions and prisms are our own and there are no rules that anyone but ourselves can enforce.

So our pleasure is rooted in our individuality. But when we evaluate and pass judgement, we cannot be confused in our criticism. We can certainly describe our reactions, but we need to be aware of what was intended and what was achieved and not club all our reactions into one single clump and make a judgement on aesthetics.

[munirao2001]

Ranganayaki,
Yes there are no rules. Every rasika is guided by his own mind sense, individually. However, in collective, others influence play their part. But with long history of practices, observations are made and suggestions are given for optimization of the listening experience for rasikas own realization and pleasure. They are guidance only based on the shared experiences. Perception of beauty of aesthetics is at its best when the mind sense is in freedom, freedom from the past and the future. It is in lively happening moments of creativity of the artist. Memory and urge for recall experience of pleasure can act as a barrier when the original creativity is either being explored or offered by the artist. Even in re creativity of the original, artist offers his own observation, insight and interpretation, a variant in saahithya bhaavam or raaga bhaavam e.g.kaala pramaanam of the composition, pada vibhedam, sangati ornamentation. This re creativity quality and delivery of the artists are the differentiation factor, either with newer values or degrading the value for the acceptance or rejection by the pandita and paamara rasikas. In acceptance, the artist receives better recognition and support. Artists achieve the ideal of delivery of pleasure for both the paamara and pandita and thus attain the popularity, well deserved. This ideal to succeed the role of rasika, both the discerning and uninitiated, are critical factors. Artist in freedom with manodharma, with strict adherence to the lakshana and the rasika, in freedom from the past, in observation, with minimal knowledge, total attention, unconditioned and sensitivity, make the listening pleasure the highest. It is to be noted that it is not restriction to curtail but to enable.

munirao2001

[munirao2001]

RSachi Sir
Greatest of the composers give the original creativity and with abstraction of beauty. This quality of inherent abstraction of beauty gives the scope for performer to go into re creativity of the original, with their stamp of class. Many other composers, with love and great respect follow the great composer ideas and offer their works, with great reverence and familiarity to the original composition, but with very minor variation. Another category of composers take the different ideas and make a collective of the original ideas in their composition, seemingly different, but claim originality. With popularity achieved, it is not questioned. It receives acceptance and endorsement.
Ultimately, litmus test is being time tested and continued offer of great pleasure or message.
Great Maestros and maestros, with deep insights and internalized experience and practice of original creativity tune any average or good quality lyric in to a great or good composition. Daasa Saahithya, Bhadrachala Ramadasu and Annamayya compositions and other lyricists, with exception to the compositions in the karna parampara, are the very good examples of turning them in to good and great compositions by the great maestro/maestro tune smiths. Knowing Great Maestro KVN Sir, his mind perennially focused on the music, musical compositions in all his waking hours, immense saadhana, can not but tune the lyric in to a good composition, at a minimum level of his creativity and work.
RSachi, to put it in simple terms, it is like your post/comments, urging thinking on the part of forunites! :namaste:

[maduraimini]

I remember a time when we heard Vatapi, Chakkani Raja and Darini sung by every artist at every concert. Not only that, when navarathri season came every girl sang these same songs, whether they were good or bad singers. i used to dread listening to awful rendering of the same song all through the season! I think today's artists sing a wider variety of songs. Sanjay seems to dig into old Tamil, Telugu and Sanskrit songs that are forgotten or never heard in concerts and sings them. Most of the new (newer than Semmangudi, Ariyakudi etc.) do sing many songs of Thyagaraja that were never heard before. Also some songs are liked by most listeners at one time and hated at another time- just like fashions come and go kritis also follow the pattern and the poor artist cannot please everyone all the time.
One thing I notice is that most of today's listeners don't have the patience to listen to a long song like 'Sri Subrahmanyaya namasthe', except some. They say they are busy and want a fast tempoed kriti. The artist has to please the majority of his listeners, not cater to a select few who love these kind of songs. Chamber Music or a concert at somebody's home with likeminded rasikas would be good .

[tiruppugazh]

If you want Vatapi just think of L Subramaniam. I don't think he has played any other song in the last 40 years )

[priyaram78]

Really enjoyed reading your post maduraimini. Thanks. You have so well pointed out the fact that many listeners today dont have the patience to listen to a long song and prefer fast tempoed kritis. There can be a balance but I feel too many slow kritis will not be enjoyed by all. We have to take the audience's needs and interests into account if we want more youngsters to listen to carnatic music and come to the sabhas to attend concerts. Even test matches have been replaced by twenty twenty. This is the fast paced generation. Else we should not complain as to why youngsters prefer film songs, but dont like to come to carnatic concerts. Music directors compose film songs based on lively, fast tempoed raagams and attract youngsters !

[PRCM]

Here is Sree Varalakshmi from TNS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dVbhqX5PiQ

Samajavaragamana by Ganesh Kumaresh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NGNL2Qh1-4

[Ponbhairavi]

. Music directors compose film songs based on lively, fast tempoed raagams and attract youngsters !

very true: pArthen sirithen in veera abhimanyu and Adhi nAdhan ketkinrAn in Ganga Gowri sound more enticing sahana than Giri pai

[VK RAMAN]

arasiji: here is KVN rendition of Dattatreya for everyone's pleasure: http://listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=rarA ... a_cApu_(I) - you can listen on repeat in this version of youtube.

[CRama]

Both belong to two different genres- they should not be compared.

[arasi]

ponbhairavi,

Maduraimini gave the thread new life by focusing on the the majority of listeners who make up the core of CM listeners today. Experts and connoisseurs are but a jot here, a dot there in a sabha gathering. Many of them are not even going to concerts, as much as they do to lec-dems. When experts analyze a concert, no doubt we get informed about many aspects of CM, but it shouldn't take us farther away from the bulk of rasikAs who make up an audience: music minded rasikAs who take the trouble and time to be at a concert, in spite of their time restrictions.

We have experts as members here and are very proud of them for teaching us about CM in their posts. Yet, in this context, we cannot lose focus and get away from a normal rasikA. Nor can a performer. No, I am not saying jana ranjakam has to mean that everything in a concert is a light fare. After all, the expression started with the meaning of being appealing to a large number of listeners--not in the sense it is meant now: a mere crowd-pulling, light affair?

Priyaram is a perfect example for the kind of rasikA the artistes have to keep in mind: young, with a keen interest in going to concerts, in being keen on learning quality music, and in being very keen on the very concert experience.

When our generation of listeners move on to another world, her kind are the rasikAs who will matter, and the youngsters who will come into the fold as well--not forgetting the ones who are senior to her by a decade or two...

[arasi]

crama,
Our posts crossed. Yes, that too.

VKR,
Thanks for the repeated treat...

[annamalai]

To add to Maduraimini - DKJ in one of his lecdem has remarked that some sabhanayaka asked him (DKJ - expert of Dikshitar krithis) if he knew Vatapi Anyway, this krithi has been sung ad nauseam by many artists. There are many other krithis in Hamsadhwani - including Parvathi Pathim (Dikshitar krithi, that DKJ used to sing). The demise of Samajavaragamana, can be attributed to Sankarabaranam movie ( sanjay has also remarked this in his blog).

Every artist, also has their Padantharam, speciality, I like Nadachi Nadachi as much as Chakkani Raja or Pakkala Neela; similarly if every artist sang only Enduku Peddala, there is no opportunity the other classic krithis - Eduta Nilachite, Manasu Swadheena or Bakthi Biksha or Bagumeera gananato (lovely krithi - not heard at all).

I totally agree with the point of rajumds, I would rather hear a known krithi but well-polished krithi, instead a rare krithi not fully packaged or ready for the concert stage.

However, I would agree with the point, that musicians need to sing some popular krithis - to bring the new rasikas to concerts. I was one, who was attracted to carnatic music concerts of Maharajapuram Santhanam or DKJ or MLV only to listen to thukkada section. Now, the thukkada section is perfunctory and reduced due to lack of time.

[munirao2001]

ponbhairavi,

You opine " pArthen sirithen in veera abhimanyu and Adhi nAdhan ketkinrAn in Ganga Gowri sound more enticing sahana than Giri pai" [-x
I have not heard 'Adhi nadhan'. But the 'Choochi, valachi'-in Telugu and 'Parthen Sirithen', contain quintessential sahana. Sahana in ' Giri pai', is verily, Sahana raaga bhaavam, ever inspiring. If 'Parthen, Sirithen' pleases manas, mind sense; 'Giri pai' is intellectually gratifying. We should be mindful in making such posting/comment, even if it is your individual opinion. Exercising freedom, has its responsibility of veracity, when making a public statement.

munirao2001

[Pratyaksham Bala]

ponbhairavi,
You opine " pArthen sirithen in veera abhimanyu and Adhi nAdhan ketkinrAn in Ganga Gowri sound more enticing sahana than Giri pai" [-x
I have not heard 'Adhi nadhan'. But the 'Choochi, valachi'-in Telugu and 'Parthen Sirithen', contain quintessential sahana. Sahana in ' Giri pai', is verily, Sahana raaga bhaavam, ever inspiring. If 'Parthen, Sirithen' pleases manas, mind sense; 'Giri pai' is intellectually gratifying. We should be mindful in making such posting/comment, even if it is your individual opinion. Exercising freedom, has its responsibility of veracity, when making a public statement.
munirao2001

[-x We should be mindful in making such posting/comment, even if it is your individual opinion! Exercising freedom, has its responsibility, when making a public statement.
This is an open forum where Members share their experiences.

[Ponbhairavi]

I know the meaning of the words "sound" and "enticing" and I am sure that no "veracity" is jeopardized.but I won't discuss your opinion as it is your own.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

... I won't discuss your opinion as it is your own.

:ymapplause:

[sureshvv]

Giripai was one of the last compositions of Thyagaraja after he completed the one crore rama namas that he had set out to complete. In it he sets out the timeline of his departure from this world. It is a very moving keerthana set against this context. Especially for the non-intellectual.

[PRCM]

Giripai by GK ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sN0it0pxIM

[vgovindan]

"...demise of Samajavaragamana...."
An audacious statement indeed! Even if generations of musicians did not sing this tyAgarAja kRti, it will spring back as it is etched permanently in the hearts of rasikas. A hundred Sankarabharanam films will not make a difference. Let not professional musicians pride that they are custodians of Carnatic music.

[cacm]

GNB&MMI have made sure your prediction will come true!Who can ever forget TNR' Rendering of this kriti at the request of BOTH GNB& MMI MANY TIMES!....VKV