Commercialism? Celebrities? ...or music?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Nov 2006, 12:09

I see from yesterdays Hindu that the launch party of the second edition of the Hindu Friday Review November Fest, [was] held on thursday at the Taj Connemara ballroom, [and] was attended by the who's who of the city

What's this about? Since when did carnatic music require a five-star hotel party? Is this the future of the Hindu and Music Academy tie-up?

(and is that alcohol I see in the hands of guests in ione of the pictures?)

Or am I just being a puritanical old bore?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 12 Nov 2006, 13:43

http://www.thehindu.com/mp/2006/11/11/s ... 080500.htm is the url that Nick is talking about.

Not just the pictures that is a concern, there is a mention of splendid 1/2 an hour concert woven on the theme of love.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Nov 2006, 17:51

What else do you expect from Ram - the darling of secularists? Be sure of Carnatic music becoming secular under his stewardship of 'The Hindu' - the gomukha vyAghra - as Sri tyAgarAja would put it.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 12 Nov 2006, 20:24

it is the order of the day. but we can not accuse this alone in isolation. It is generations since CM has become a status symbol and all related upper middle class hypocrisy have seeped in to its fabric.
probably this has been made too obvious. that is the difference.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Nov 2006, 20:56

I hear all sorts of things about Ram's political viewpoints --- one of which (this is not the place to discuss it) made me wonder if I really should go on buying his newspaper!

If he has an aim to increase awareness of carnatic music, and if that can be called secularism, then that is fine. But if only the rich and famous qualify, then it is not so fine.

Thanks for the link, rajeshnat: I was lazy to look it up, and forgetting that many members here won't have a neat pile of Hindu newspapers in their houses

Chalanata, perhaps it has always been the same? I guess Patronage by royalty and those others who can afford to give house concerts must have been a part of carnatic music for a long, long time.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Nov 2006, 00:10

Just to make a point that is missed. It is not a carnatic concert or an event promoting CM. It is world music with CM thrown in a little bit. I do not know if that changes any of the view points but it is worth considering it in that light.

With respect to CM a status symbol, that may have existed for a long time and may have gotten more so in recent times, but as we all know, that is not the whole story. In rural temple concerts, you will see a wider distribution of audience. At the Thiruvayyaru aradhana, though the morning aradhana attendance skews heavily towards the aficionados, the evening main concert draws quite a wide audience.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Nov 2006, 03:11

On a quick read, this whole thing rang like an alarm which sounded like 'rAvaNA has abducted Sita!' to me. On a second read, well, it sounds more like: look at all those people gathered by the bridge! Someone has jumped into the water!
CM is alive and well. It is flaunting a few guises and is trying to blend with other forms of music--like young girls in orthodox families in Chennai wanting to don a pair of jeans. This kind of assimilation is sometimes palatable, sometimes not. As rasikAs, we can pick and choose going to the venues we like to be at.
Nick, you, a puritan? Come on, I know you didn't get off the Mayflower!
Isn't secularism a good thing? Practised, it would have brought unity to India ages ago! I understand secularism to be tolerance and respect for our fellow citizens AND for the faith they adhere to. When did the word come to mean atheism? Within hinduism, there has always been interaction between the mArgAs. Those who sang out of bhakthi reached out for gnAna mArga and so on.
Coming to the event, as VK points out, it did not prtend to be a CM concert. CM was included in it--in a half an hour slot. None other than our young vidwAn TMK participated. Do proper CM concerts eschew love songs (not in the cinema sense) and adhere only to bhakthi? Yes, some soirees of the elite are frivolous and are a venue for some to serve the purpose 'to be seen'. Granted. I was not there to experience what it was all about.
On the subject of patronage--while it is true some among royalty and nobility loved the fine arts, others merely gave it a nod to be 'with it' or as a habit (their ancestors were patrons). However, music flourished and musicians earned a living. Do we look for bhakthi and high moral codes in the sponsors who hold music in traditional sabhas and not attend those which are sponsored by the lesser ones?
As for the president of the Music Academy, let the results of his work at the Academy be taken into account rather than what he does in his other capacities...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 13 Nov 2006, 09:03

Nicely put into perspectiveby the last two posts, and, whether puritan or not, I see that perhaps my dislike of the 'celebrity thing' is at the fore here. (Makes note to self about being more flexible and open minded).

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 13 Nov 2006, 12:51

Ms Arasi,

Isn't secularism a good thing?

Sorry for the digression. Secularism, if practised, in its right spirit, is most desirable; but in India, it is the most abused word. Anything to do with Indian culture and traditions is not secular. For example lighting 'kuttu vilakku' is not secular; singing 'vande mataram' is not secular; singing invocational songs in functions is not secular - because all these hurt the sentiments of persons belonging other religions. When Hindus were in a state of shock and disbelief at the arrest of Kanchi Acharya, it was Mr Ram who led the attack against Him. The Acharyas were condemned even before they were tried. Some years back, a 'letter to the Editor' was published in 'The Hindu', which stated, 'the amount of milk, ghee etc wasted in Hindu religious functions is a national waste' or words to that effect. So much for secularism.
From what you say, I understand Mr Ram is President of Music Academy - kudos!!

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 13 Nov 2006, 16:25

"let the results of his work at the Academy be taken into account rather than what he does in his other capacities..." - like the story of Ariyakudi huh arasi?

Btw Nick, you had me alarmed!

sangeetarasikan · Post by **sangeetarasikan** » 13 Nov 2006, 19:24

It is Mr. Murali who is the President of the Music Academy.

In the inaugural speech of The Hindu festival, Mr. Ram has said that it is Chennaiites who are the beneficiaries with access to other genres of music. In the context of Carnatic music, their festival is really not doing much. Even Carnatic artistes have been roped in only to present Abhangs or fusion! I am not sure if this is going to help CM in any way other than boost the image of those particular artistes.

I felt that the Carnatica Bharat Sangeet Ustav was much better in terms of variety within the Indian classical arts. I wish one day they can join forces with organizations in different parts of the world and present similar fare. That might help put Indian arts on the world map.

On an side note, it appears like The Hindu is try to break of the mould of being a conservative newspaper. In the last four years, you might have seen the change in the language and tone of most articles. They apparently want to be more trendy to catch up with (their image of) the urban classes. The coverage for films, non-classical music and western trends has gone up multifold. I see it turning into what the Times of India has become - fluffy and showy.

sangeetarasikan · Post by **sangeetarasikan** » 13 Nov 2006, 19:36

Arasi, it is not that love songs are not part of CM. Despite the fact that I don't understand it very well, I believe Padams, Javalis and Ashtapadis convey the beautiful and strong emotion of love. Bhakti itself is a form of love, isn't it? Chinnanchiru kiliye is a personal favorite of mine as it conveys the feelings of a father towards a daughter. The sheer novelty of the theme and the lyrics are v.moving.

I think that both Nick and Rajeshnat were more pained at the fact that The Hindu Festival folks feel that CM has to be packaged thus to make it palatable to the 'hip' crowd. Am I right in understaning you guys?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 13 Nov 2006, 19:42

Hmm, a "splendid 1/2 hour concert" by TMK - wonder why it wasn't just a 5-minute concert. I can see the day when we will have mini and micro 'concerts'.

Obviously this event must have been the one where they show off their expensive sarees, jewelleries and the like. Precisely the kinds of things that the great saint complained about in his songs. But hey, who listens these days, and how does it matter if a bit of alcohol is imbibed. It's all for a good cause! (They even served 'exotic' south indian dishes!)

I will take refuge in my madurai mani iyer tapes, thank you.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 13 Nov 2006, 20:11

i can only quote sivavakyar who says 'will the ladle understand the taste of curry?' Thiagaraja in a different context says 'the vessel doesn't understand the taste of milk in it'
(Entha muddo-Bindumalini)
long live sponsors! long live CM!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Nov 2006, 21:51

sangeeta rasikan,
Of course, what you say about love songs in CM is understood and it wasn't as if I was forgetting the way love is expressed in CM. I merely mentioned film songs because I guess TMK only sang CM. Half an hour is too short for a concert but this was NOT a concert. In a wedding wher CM can be sung, one does not expect the duration of it to be the same as in a regular concert. Please note that I am all for a sumptuous three hour (or more) concert.
I do not know the man who heads the Academy and The Hindu. And we on the forum are more interested in discussing music than the way Hindu is going. Evenings of this kind are not worth our while to discuss. They serve their purpose and are soon forgotten...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Nov 2006, 22:06

Nick,
I like your quick analysis on your reaction. Wish all of us could think about what motivates us and be as flexible as you are

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Nov 2006, 03:28

Well, if I say we have a CM loving secular president who respects his religion and all the other religions in the world, would I be wrong?
Am I too optimistic in thinking there are a lot of folks who are open minded and have the largeness of heart to see differences in others and respect them in spite of them?
Listening to CM elevates us. Politics in politics (!) and in the arts and all walks of life is unsavory, we know only too well. if we look around in a concert hall, we see all kinds of different folks who have gathered there with one object: to spend their time in a better way than it is possible elsewhwere--of course, with varying degrees of interest and knowledge.
Nick, now that you have set an example--I will try not to knock those who are a nuisance in a concert hall. Live and let live, I say. Sometimes by knocking others about being elitist, we
may end up being elitist ourselves, in a totally different way, of course!
Also, you and I know well that we have gone on about concert hall misbehavior and got nowhere

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 14 Nov 2006, 10:11

Air tel was a major sponsor for the Carnatica music festival. The ad displayed was perhaps an indication of the way the sponsors will treat CM.Tha ad featured a man siting in a chair (rather reclining) in a lawn , with his suit, tie & shoes, stretching his his legs and a mrudangist sitting on the grass at his feet & a kanjira artist standing behind him palying for him. What are they trying to convey. It is sad the musicians didin't feel offended by such ads. Money is important & sponsors do play a big role. But what is important - music or sponsor's interest.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 14 Nov 2006, 10:13

Always, acceptance is the first step arasi...so not to worry.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Nov 2006, 15:33

Thanks Arasi, but I'm afraid I'm too quick to jump up and shout without doing the thinking first. Leads to many eaten words.

And I'm not giving any examples where tolerating bad concert behaviour is concerned! The person you hear going "Shhhh" is quite likely to be me.

Yes, of course concerts need sponsors, and I'd go so far as to say that carnatic musicians should be paid a great deal more for their labour: I suspect that you could get a dozen top artists (at least here in Chennai) on stage for a sum that wouldn't entice any leading Hindustani musician out of their house.

Speaking generally about CM (I think we've established that this concert series does not really count) or, even about Indian classical music in general, I think sponsorship should be restrained, and in keeping with the ethos.

And on another limb of this discussion, secularism is indeed desirable. One good example of this is given by our HM neighbours. I recall a [hindu] friend of mine telling me, at a concert by her favourite HM singer, a muslim, 'Amazing, she sang that song about Ram with as much feeling as any Hindu could have done'.

The President of India is a remarkable human being and stands way above most world leaders: yes, his is an example well worth following.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Nov 2006, 15:53

Nick, the President is a vainika (veena player), if you have not heard.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 14 Nov 2006, 17:06

rajumds wrote:Air tel was a major sponsor for the Carnatica music festival. The ad displayed was perhaps an indication of the way the sponsors will treat CM.Tha ad featured a man siting in a chair (rather reclining) in a lawn , with his suit, tie & shoes, stretching his his legs and a mrudangist sitting on the grass at his feet & a kanjira artist standing behind him palying for him. What are they trying to convey. It is sad the musicians didin't feel offended by such ads. Money is important & sponsors do play a big role. But what is important - music or sponsor's interest.

To earn a living and make some extra cash, even 'good' musicians will compromise on their principles, I believe! I have seen that many times in action, in the form of accomplished vidwans who are whisked all the way from India by air, being paid good 'phoren' money and performing for an 'arangetram' by the kids' rich parents. In one such event I had to attend here, watching a senior vocalist having to put up with apaswarams on stage was just pathetic. But hey, they get paid loads of money, so it must be allright!

kAshe tAn kadavuladA !
(that is 'money is god' for those who are Tamil illiterate)

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 14 Nov 2006, 19:25

I hate going to Sree Krishna Sweets .Have you guys seen the way the performers (in the evenings)sit in cramped fashion, by the side of the cashier ,conscious of Kids glaring at them..
Horrible, to say the least !

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 14 Nov 2006, 19:50

i'm very much tempted to go to Krishna sweets, buy some sweets and distribute the same to members for your welcome home coming coolji. Especially after the carnatica episode you have been lying low. What happened?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Nov 2006, 22:27

Where is Sree Krishna Sweets BTW?

-Ramakriya

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Nov 2006, 23:14

In Madras, it has a few branches, I have been to the Anna Nagar branch. Every evening some musician performs there (mostly unknown musicians playing their instruments, no vocal)

And what coolkarni says is true.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 14 Nov 2006, 23:24

they even sponsor kutcheris...
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 030300.htm

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:22

I was referring to the shop at adyar ...
chalanata
Lying low is not because of carantica episode.In fact I surfaced at that forum..so to speak.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:37

You did, indeed, Mr. Smith, I mean, Shashi...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Nov 2006, 11:47

If it were not for Sri Krishna and Mr Nalli there would be very considerably less music in Chennai.