Lalgudi Sahaptham Begins With Lakshmi Devanath's Book

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2013, 01:34

I am starting this new new topic inspired by reading the recently released Boigraphy of "An Incurable Romantic "-the musical journey of Lalgudi Jayaraman by Lakshmi Devanath. I am hoping many EXPERTS & SCHOLARS as well as "ORDINARY" Rasikas will share their thoughts as well as experiences so we can try to understand better the PHENOMENON called LALGUDI (LGJ) and in the process in the case of persons like me can RE-LIVE the EXCITEMENT OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF CARNATIC MUSIC which I arbitrarily redefine as the 1945-1986 period just for the sake of a reference period which also coincides with what I would like to be called the BEGINNING OF LALGUDI SAHAPTHAM. Whatever I write here is based on my belief that this FORUM grants everyone a right to express their opinions without the necessity fopr anyone to agree with any writer's opinion. It would be great if we can share our experiences/opinions about LGJ'S MONUMENTAL CONTRIBUTIONS........
I BEGIN my stating my LIMITATIONS (& ADVANTAGES) of being born a Tamilian in South India definitely color my outlook on things.......I grew up in the era where a whole generation at least grew up inspired by Mahakavi Bharathiyar and his minipoem which said" Thamizhan Enru Sollada Thalai Nimindru Nillada" ( Say you are a Tamilian & keep your head up & stand up- rough translation). (TO BE CONTINUED)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2013, 03:42

DEAR MODERATOR,
YOU HAVE DELETED THE WRONG POST. IF YOU CAN PLEASE RESTORE THE OTHER POST WHICH HAS TWO POSTS BY ME. THIS ONE IS INCOMPLETE. THANKS. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 04 Nov 2013, 10:53

Dear Sri VKV,

This is great.Looking forward to learn more about Sri Lalgudi's music from you.Lakshmi Devnath book does give some insights and his efforts to bring violin in the main platform.
But Sri Lalgudi is featured for solo very few times at Music Academy.As per the count I have mentioned earlier,Sri Lalgudi participated 44 times which include duets as well as accompaniments.His successful VVV concert was never featured at Music Academy.
His intimate association with Krishnagana Sabha is well documented.However you and MKR will be able to give more insight into his efforts starting from 1945.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2013, 11:47

Dear Sri. Bhagavan,
I STRONGLY FEEL that THIS BOOK & LGJ has given us the window to appreciate& understand what was GOLDEN about the Golden Age of Carnatic Music. I intend writing myself about VARIOUS ASPECTS some of them might be surprising as I intend covering the subject as Rasika, Witness and as a scientist looking at the LALGUDI PHENOMENON objectively as one can. I will wait a couple of days to see if my original 2 posts can be recovered. Otherwise I will rewrite what I wrote in them-they were extensive in nature- and go on from there. As I wrote in those posts I am requesting the participation of EXPERTS like Ravikiran, Dr.Narmadha, Uday Shankar, MKR, MAHAVISHNU, CLEVELAND VVS, SRaschi, and ANYONE with things to say to contribute towards ENHANCING our knowledge & understanding the GENIUS who was so ACCESSIBLE AND AVAILABLE TO US. VKV

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Nov 2013, 12:14

cacm wrote:I will wait a couple of days to see if my original 2 posts can be recovered. Otherwise I will rewrite what I wrote in them-they were extensive in nature- and go on from there.

VKV Sir,
Type it in a note pad or word save it and then copy and paste here. I donot know what you lost , but it is just sad to hear that .

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2013, 12:16

Rajeshnat,
I will take your advice from now on! VKV

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 04 Nov 2013, 18:15

Dear All: Just as I was dilly-dallying(as is my usual wont!!) about writing my own recollections of LALGUDI REMINISCENCES -- VKV--my mentor in Music Appreciation(if not in Physics!!!--not HIS fault!!!) has jolted me from my slumber and I am glad to jump into the fray.

For starters, I strongly recommend forumites to read Lakshmi Devanath's Book--in my opinion she has captured all the facets of Lalgudi--as a professional artiste.a family man,friend,teacher,composer--in a very objective and elegant manner.The writing is smooth and flows nicely with quotes and letters inserted in the appropriate places that bring out Lalgudi at his best. Having known Lalgudi Sir and his family for over 3 decades and having hosted him on his various tours to the US I can vouchsafe for the authenticity of the events and happenings in his life described in the book--some of which Lalgudi Sir was kind enough to share with me and my family.

I shall try to post atleast twice/week my own recollections/reminiscences.

I might forewarn forumites that although I might make all claims to objectivity and detachment,please do not kid yourself about it!!

I have been,I am, and I will ever be an unabashed admirer of Lalgudi Sir and if my narrative turns out to be cloyingly sycophantic I plead Guilty without an explanation!!!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 04 Nov 2013, 20:56

Moderator,

Moderator to respond as to why VKV postings were removed/deleted?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Nov 2013, 21:33

Duplicate posts happen often ( may be by members hitting submit twice etc. ) and we do clean those up. Let me look into it to see what happened in this case. No assurances since we may not have the full log.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 04 Nov 2013, 22:41

This is a great and timely topic. Thanks, Sri VKV.
I wanted to initiate a discussion on these lines after the maestro's passing in the "tributes and reminiscences" thread, but I think the context is perfect with the release of Lakshmi Devnath's book.

I have not read the book yet, it is high on my reading list. I will chime in as I make my way through the book. My family has had the privilege of being associated with Lalgudi for the last 5+ decades, and there are many photographs and personal anecdotes that would be great to share here.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2013, 23:06

Dear Mahavishnu, GREAT! I INTEND NOT ONLY TO READ YOUR POSTS BUT INTEND "PICKING YOUR BRAINS & EXPERTISE" ABOUT THE HUMAN BRAIN AS MANY of my activities reg LGJ arose not only as a result of his music but VARIOUS PUZZLES REG. THE ABILITY OF A LGJ FOR EXAMPLE TO TRULY FAITHFULLY REPEAT VERY LONG SEQUENCES OF THINGS HE HIMSELF JUST HEARD FOR THE FIRST TIME ETC-I am referring to a different phenomenon than the "Autistic" person's ability etc-....I will write you email separately reg an idea IN USING THE VARIOUS PICS you have during next years Cleveland Festival. Regs, VKV

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 05 Nov 2013, 00:19

Dear VKV, sincere apologies it seems the wrong post was deleted. Deleted posts are irretrievably lost. We will be more careful next time.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Nov 2013, 01:24

Dear V&SKris,
I understand. These SENIOR moments is the only fig leaf excuse I have. I know how tough it is to do what all of you are doing in running this site. Sorry for my lapse. Will be more careful myself .THANKS, VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Nov 2013, 01:57

cacm wrote:I am starting this new new topic inspired by reading the recently released Boigraphy of "An Incurable Romantic "-the musical journey of Lalgudi Jayaraman by Lakshmi Devanath. I am hoping many EXPERTS & SCHOLARS as well as "ORDINARY" Rasikas will share their thoughts as well as experiences so we can try to understand better the PHENOMENON called LALGUDI (LGJ) and in the process in the case of persons like me can RE-LIVE the EXCITEMENT OF THE GOLDEN AGE OF CARNATIC MUSIC which I arbitrarily redefine as the 1945-1986 period just for the sake of a reference period which also coincides with what I would like to be called the BEGINNING OF LALGUDI SAHAPTHAM. Whatever I write here is based on my belief that this FORUM grants everyone a right to express their opinions without the necessity for anyone to agree with any writer's opinion. It would be great if we can share our experiences/opinions about LGJ'S MONUMENTAL CONTRIBUTIONS........
I BEGIN my stating my LIMITATIONS (& ADVANTAGES) of being born a Tamilian in South India definitely color my outlook on things.......I grew up in the era where a whole generation at least grew up inspired by Mahakavi Bharathiyar and his minipoem which said" Thamizhan Enru Sollada Thalai Nimindru Nillada" ( Say you are a Tamilian & keep your head up & stand up- rough translation). (TO BE CONTINUED)

......HEREWITH A BRIEF CONTINUATION OF MY LOST ORIGINAL POSTS.
I want to start off by observing that LGJ has SUCCESSFULLY bridged the inadequacies of Language, Musical notes according to Theory, as well as VARIOUS LIMITATIONS to take us to very EXALTED STATES OF EXCELLENCE THROUGH HIS GENIUS.

For Starters the most of our Music's popularity can be attributed to Thyagabrahmam (GOD to me)who wrote in TELUGU which more than ninety five percent of rasikas (including me) do not follow! CHOWDIAH & DWARAM WERE GOD'S ANGELS (tho' they were not tamilians either). In the case of LGJ he communicated it mostly thru' 22 notes between octaves. HOW is it we are RAVING about his accomplishments? I HOPE to study this intriguing situation by breaking down into various aspects and depending on contributions from various EXPERTS & RASIKAS IN THIS FORUM. I will try to concentrate on aspects that are more objective while recalling LGJ'S ACHIEVEMENTS as I observed them personally. I had known him well since 1949 when I first heard and met him. I intend writing at least once a week on various aspects at a very personal & objective level.
Lakshmi Devanath has written a brilliant book in Prose using the 26 letters in the English alphabet though it is to me POETRY IN MOTION and captures almost all aspects of LGJ, HIS ACHEIVEMENTS & GENIUS. It is a good starting & take off point.
I REQUEST EVERY ONE TO WRITE & SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES & VIEWS. In my view MLV has aptly summarized the magic & truth of LGJ'S APPEAL& MUSIC : "One has to sing along with his(Lalgudi's) violin to realize his utmost fidelity both to vocal and the emotional content of music". Ravi Shankar has the last word: "Although a classical traditionist , never compromising on the identity of his classical roots , LALGUDI took Carnatic music to new heights with his incomparable genius". VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Nov 2013, 02:22

As I expect my postings to last at least a year (or more) I want to write short specific ones as the subject is TOO VAST AS WELL AS BEYOND MY CAPABILITIES.
MUSIC- IN THIS CONTEXT CARNATIC MUSIC- is such a large topic I can envisage it only as what is generally called "NON-DENUMERABLE" infinity. It is equivalent to dividing one by zero. LGJ'S TALENTS & CAPABLITIES can be called "DENUMERABLE " infinity. ITS like finding the value of PI ( roughly 22/7) which is NEVER ENDING BUT WE CAN SPEND THE REST OF OUR EXISTANCE EXTENDING & EVALUATING IT!
Our system of music is considered to be "MELODIC" in nature and the "RYTHMIC" aspect also involves THE STRUCTURING OF INDIVIDUAL NOTES WITH RESPECT TO TIME. IN ADDITION IN CARNATIC MUSIC THE LYRICS AS WELL AS THE PHILOSOPHICAL CONTENT ARE FURTHER COMPLICATIONS.Consequently there is a need to clearly define the borders & ground rules which I will follow for MY discussions. Roughly here they are: 1) I will restrict myself to the ARIYAKUDI SCHEME which almost all of the musicians of the GOLDEN ERA- ARBITRARILY 1945-1986 PERIOD- AGREED was the BEST COMPROMISE. 2) MY GOLDEN STANDARDS ARE: MSS-DKP-MLV- ARI-MVI-CHEMBAI- GNB- MMI- DKJ- MAH S- FOR VOCAL; MSG-TNK-LGJ FOR VIOLIN; PMI-PSP-C.S.M.-V.R.-P.R.-T.S.- FOR MRIDANGAM & FLUTE MALI AS A SPECIAL CATEGORY.THIS DOES NOT MEAN OTHERS ARE NOT GREAT. I WISH TO RESTRICT THE LIST TO PERSONS I HAVE INTERACTED WITH ON A PERSONAL BASIS.3) In the next post I will describe the "Technical" areas I wish to discuss.
Incidentally I got involved in this ANALYSIS after I heard L.S.Ramamirtham & DEVAN (discuss one of LSR'S short stories) at Rajaji Seeval Store share their opinions about the workings of the human brain! I had been dumbfounded by LGJ'S CREATIVE GENIUS & been wondering about how it all happens! Though a theoretical physicist I have spent lots of hours studying Information theory & performing experiments on the "plasticity" of the brain etc regarding various aspects of carnatic music & hope to share these too apart from my personal interactions& observations of "LGJ & HIS METEORIC PROGRESS".
I request others to share their observations....END OF TODAY'S RANDOM THOUGHTS! VKV

drmnarmadha96 · Post by **drmnarmadha96** » 06 Nov 2013, 22:17

Dr VKV 's writings and views are awesome and extraordinary.

Really, the art world only survives thro such wonderful rasikas like Dr.VK Viswanathan .I stay amazed and spellbound.

The title incurable romantic and the various emotional and sentimental voyages of the legendary violinist Shri Lalgudi G Jayaraman has been astoundingly captured by Smt. Lakshmi Devnath. Every moment of the book moistened my eyes admiring Shri Lalgudi's commitment and the sheer will power to conquer through the violin.

Yes; This book can inspire millions of students to understand the greatness of the violin , the king of instruments and the queen of melody and what marathon training is required to create and to become an accomplished violinist and how to be in love with the violin for Eternity.

Long Live the legendary violin music.

Thanks and Regards

Musically

M Narmadha.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Nov 2013, 22:23

Dear Dr.M.N.,
THANKS for candidly writing your reactions to L.D'S BOOK.POSTS LIKE YOURS GIVES THE AUTHENTICITY & VALIDATION FOR MANY THINGS I AM HOPING TO WRITE. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 07 Nov 2013, 02:24

Dear Sri VKV and MKR,

I am eagerly awaiting your writings on Sri Lalgudi sir.It is astonishing that he has trained even vocalists Bombay jayashree and Saketaraman.An article in the Hindu by Sri Ravikiran
brought out his contribution to the music in general as he did much more than expected of any violinist.
In violin also,apart from lalgudi siblings,many more such as Vittal ramamurthy,Pakkala Ramadas,Padma Shankar etc besides a very senior T Rukmini are performing on the centre stage.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 02:30

Dear hnb,
I want to go thru' LGJ'S CONTRIBUTIONS in detail in a thorough fashion. So it may take time to address everything, I am sure you realise its like the story of the six blind persons of Hindustan trying to describe the Elephant! This is a similar situation. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 02:30

Dear hnb,
I want to go thru' LGJ'S CONTRIBUTIONS in detail in a thorough fashion. So it may take time to address everything, I am sure you realise its like the story of the six blind persons of Hindustan trying to describe the Elephant! This is a similar situation. VKV

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 07 Nov 2013, 13:58

VKV Sir, I have been fortunate enough to have been able to gawk in awe at the great LGJ on stage during my formative years. I will share my thoughts when I can gather them in a cogent way...of course after buying and reading the Lakshmi Devnath book which is on a mental to-do list.

Suffice it to say that LGJ was at the epicenter of so many intense, defining moments of 20th century Carnatic music.

I like to tell this apocryphal story that around 1830 when Baluswami Dikshithar was figuring out how to play Carnatic music for the first time on the violin, he prayed to his Lord in frustration and desperation. The Lord finally appeared to him in his dream and said "don't worry, do your best and press on and spread the awareness of this instrument. In about a 100 years time, I will induce three special siddhas to be born to go forth and completely redefine Carnatic music on the violin forever."

Paraphrasing the last verse of the Bhagavad Gita (Chapter 18 verse 78) "Where there are Krishna, the master of all yogis, and Arjuna, the supreme marksman, there will be greatness, victory, extraordinary power, and integrity." We could say equally, "where there is Jayaraman there is extrordinary musical power and integrity".

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 07 Nov 2013, 15:39

Tapaswi Lalgudi Jayaraman Sir accepted my request to meet him and seek his blessings. To my surprise he consented. I had unforgettable time with Lalgudi Sir, his beloved wife and GJR Krishnan. When I conveyed to him my father and guru Sandhyavandanam Srinivasa Rao's opinion on Lalgudi Sir's musical achievement as told to me "He is not only a great son and disciple of a great Vidwan, he is also a great father of two immensely talented children and disciples GJR Krishnan and GJR Vijayalakshmi ", Lalgudi Sir commented that such respect and blessings from such Maha Vidwans only lead to his achievements and attainments.
Another aspect of Lalgudi Sir's large heartiness of sharing the limelight has to be brought out to the rasikas. SSRao, Lalgudi Sir and Madurai Soma Sundaram Sir were given by President of India , the Sangeeth Natak Academy Award-National Award. SSRao was to give a concert at Delhi University Music College. Before the concert there were facilitation to the recipient of awards. Lalgudi Sir informed that he is doubly honored to have received the award along with SSRao, known for pure, sublime and uncompromising in classicism in his music and scholarship and recognized and respected by us all as authority on Mudduswamy Dikshita and Dasara padas and the facilitator should have spoken more of SSRao than about himself or Somu. It is one of my unforgettable incidents in life and association with Lalgudi Sir

munirao2001

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 20:53

I REQUEST OTHERS WITH PERSONAL RECOLLECTIONS OF LGJ TO COME FORWARD & SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES LIKE SRI. MUNI RAO. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 20:54

I REQUEST OTHERS WITH PERSONAL RECOLLECTIONS OF LGJ TO COME FORWARD & SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES LIKE SRI. MUNI RAO. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 07 Nov 2013, 22:12

Dr.Narmada's comments on Sri Lalgudi sir

It is indeed a great thing to hear from a contemporary leading Violinist who herself is the torch bearer of the Parur tradition.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Nov 2013, 22:32

Dear VKV Sir,
I was living in Australia then. My friend led me to a blog called Parvathi in Sep. 2009 where they had shared a great concert of Sri Lalgudi ( I later went and met the Parvathi family for the first time). I listened to the concert and wrote the following piece in my own blog (RSachi.blogspot.in). Later I attended the livecasts of his 80th Birthday celebrations and screen-shot the photos below.

I do believe my favourite among Lalgudi masterpieces is his exposition of Bhairavi. He is the ultimate Bhairavi Upasaka I know.
Thanks
Sachi R

Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Lalgudi G. Jayaraman

And there was a Lalgudi.

I am full of trepidation as I write this. I am writing about an extraordinary musical soul who lives amongst us and has created a wonderful legacy of music. He comes from a family of musicians, and his great grand-father was a disciple of Saint Thyagaraja. In fact Thyagaraja composed five magnificent songs while he was visiting this disciple in the village of Lalgudi.

That was over 170 years ago perhaps. And today, there is a musician amongst us who is totally unmatched for his contribution to Carnatic music. Who am I to say this? Actually a nobody. But I cannot help express these thoughts as I listen to his music streaming from a glorious blog site. This is a 1970's concert with Palghat Raghu on the mridangam. Listen to it and you will take a few hours to recover from its musical impact. It is studded with gems.

Thanks to the great rasika and patron of the arts K. Srikantiah of Mysore Parvathi. The blog created by Vishwanath of New Jersey is a cornucopia of memories and music.

I attended three concerts of Lalgudi in Mysore in 1967-68 within a span of 3-4 days. I was so mesmerised, I sat close to the dais. And I got his autograph. He signed with a flourish, the letter L shaped like a violin.

This great maestro has composed so many wonderful tillanas and other songs. He has given countless magnificient concerts. He has accompanied the great musicians like only he can. He has trained students who can hold their own today. He has created an incomparable solo violin style. The way he modulates the sound, the way he makes the violin speak the words... the way he creates a wonderful dialogue in the improvisation passages, bringing to our hearts the very God of music.... The way he coaxes the violin time and again to do even more...It is difficult to see where the bow and strings end, where the player begins and ends, and where God steps in and takes over.....

I remember an occasion when Lalgudi was playing in Krishna Gana Sabha. A suburban train passing by blew the strident whistle. At once he played the exact same sound and welcomed it to become a part of his raga essay...

I remember Lalgudi accompanying MDR in Bidaram Rama Mandira. MDR always had a packet of Kalkandu (crystal sugar) and dry fruits and so on, which he would strew in front of himself on the stage and occasionally pop some into his mouth with a delectable expression. Lalgudi would look out for a chance and steal a few pieces for himself and delight in them... the mridangam player would not be left behind either (I think it was TVG)...

Listen to the concert in the link. Each piece is a nugget. Kharaharapriya, Jayathasri, Mohana, Yadukula Kambodhi, Shanmukhapriya, the ragamalika in the end where he plays five octaves on the violin......Krishna nee begane....it is an endless treat.

Sometimes one is glad to be alive in THIS world. Where there is music and there is Lalgudi.....

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 22:57

Dear RSachi,
What an inspiring account! THANKS a million. I request others to shed their reservations & come forward to share their experiences. I feel for the first time we can talk about a genius who was accessible & wiling to share everything we asked him & wanted to know about him. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 23:20

The uniqueness of anything MUSICAL about LGJ is the fact that he is in the DIRECT SISHYA PARAMPARA OF THYAGABRAHMAM which to me is as close to the SOURCE as one can get....I intend closely following and using the excellent research of Lakshmi Devanath to express and illustrate everything I intend covering.....
Before I get into the specifics of my own observations broadly speaking I intend to follow the following scheme to express my thoughts: I BROADLY intend sharing my views under the following MAJOR topics:
1) LGJ'S EVOLUTION AS A PERFORMER (1). I hope to put a mark (1) etc to indicate the area I address. In this category the SUB ones are: A) AS ACCOMPANIST. B) AS SOLOIST. C) INNOVATIONS.
2) ASPECTS OF LGJ'S MUSIC (2). SUB A) TECHNICAL PROWESS B) REPERTOIRE C) CONTRIBUTIONS AND FIDELITY TO THE COMPOSITIONS AND COMPOSERS.D) UNIQUE CONTRIBUTIONS OF LGJ.
3) LGJ AS INNOVATOR (3) SUB A) AS COMPOSER B) IN VARIOUS AREAS AND MEDIA C) IN VARIOUS AREAS D) AS AN ACHARYA, TEACHER, AND PROPAGATOR OF OUR CULTURE AND HERITAGE.E) EVALUATING AND UNDERSTANDING A GENIUS LIKE LGJ.
4) PERSONAL ANECTODES, INTERACTIONS ETC. (4)
With this I begin my attempt. I urge others to SHARE their experiences, views etc so we can have a better understand the MASSIVE CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR CULTURE AND MUSIC. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Nov 2013, 23:15

1) LGJ'S EVOLUTION AS A PERFORMER(1)
I want to briefly examine the "State of Affairs" around 1942 when Lalgudi emerged in Public as a performer. At that time the ROLE of the violinist was strictly PLAYING "SECOND FIDDLE" -As a matter of fact VIOLIN was called Fiddle!- and by the time LGJ, TNK, MSG EMERGED AS LEADING ARTISTS IN THEIR OWN RIGHT & PMI, PSP ELEVATED THE CARNATIC MUSIC CONCERT reached the status to the level ready for the GOLDEN AGE (which I hope to cover). Due to length constraints I will restrict list of performers & concentrate on LGJ the subject of these posts.
Though GIANTS like T.Chowdiah & Kumbakonam Rajamanikkam Pillai were the accompanying artists & Chembai, GNB, MMI especially PAID RESPECTS to their artistry& knowledge in the OPEN during their concerts the role of accompanying artists was pretty much treated as a minor necessity MOST of the time & relegated to a minor role. Actually TNK was mostly reduced to make the concerts interesting for ARI & SEM etc.. Artists like SEM reminded accompanists of their expected subservient roles & openly put down accompanists even yanking the microphone at times. MSG was lucky to play for CHEMBAI who OPENLY encouraged & praised his accompanists as well as giving them opportunities like giving PSP 4 THANIS in a single concert etc; However he was put down as playing an admixture of carnatic & hindustani styles etc. LGJ was FORTUNATE in that he was a TOTAL OUTSIDER. Like GNB who burst in like a comet & MMI whose fan support was such it demanded his concerts, LGJ WAS a meteor which lighted the sky though he was supposed to play second fiddle.
Along with Late S.S.Venkataraman I have visited LGJ'S place in Chennai (almost everyday) to report to Gopala Iyer (LGJ'S DAD& GURU) our account of LGJ'S Concert the previous day's concert. As the EXPERT Dr.N.Ramanathan has pointed out for many irrespective of who the main performer was it was a LALGUDI CONCERT! Gopala Iyer was fascinating & educated us about many things to the extent I can write a separate book on him. We rarely spoke to LGJ who was almost always practising (many times with Srimathi Brahmanandam) in a back room & when we left would just smile at us knowing we would be showing up at his next concert!
Briefly stated his belief was GENIUS is 99 percent Prespiration with one percent inspiration. To be a good accompanist requires the abilities to follow & understand the main artist. LGJ agreed with this himself & implemented it to perfection beyond belief! (to be continued)

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 10 Nov 2013, 22:00

Sri VKV,

Looking forward to further postings.Lakshmi Devnath has clearly brought out the role played by Sri Lalgudi in promoting Violin as an independent medium for promotion of classical music.For a person who is musically inclined,but cannot follow the sahitya,Sri Lalgudi has amply demonstrated that Violin concerts and the other instrumental concerts provide the required medium to hear good music.VVV concert idea is one such example and even many young instrumentalists today are performing the VVV concerts.It is heartening to note the great cooperation of Sri Ramani and Venkataraman in this venture.The VVV concert was never featured in Music Academy.
The present violinists like GJRK,MNagaraj etc are featured in violin duet concerts by all leading sabhas regularly.I do not recall Lakshmi Devnath mentioning about the new year concerts of Sri Lalgudi on Jan 1 at MFAC.Even though I am in Bangalore and never attended this in Chennai,I know about these concerts thru The Hindu reviews.
Some violinists like Ganesh and Kumaresh are giving only violin duet recitals.
The concerts where Sri Lalgudi accompanied as also Sri TN Krishnan and MSG were a big draw and it is no secret that some of us attended for accompaniment alone without bothering who the main artist was.This particular thing happened first in the late 1940-50 when Sri Lalgudi started accompanying great stalwarts.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Nov 2013, 22:25

I have attended the 1st January concerts at MFAC for a few years regularly. I think the last one I attended was in1976. Myself and my father were regulars for these concerts, for that matter, we used to go to every concert of Shri LGJ that he got to know our faces and he used to smile at us. We used to be very thrilled about it. I never gathered enough courage to go and talk to him. But that smile from him was so friendly. I can still remember his smile. We used to sit right in front, on the jamakkalam. I wonder if I ever even blinked my eyes. I was so mesmerised by his dancing fingers on the violin.
Those were the days!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 10 Nov 2013, 23:24

Dear Punarvasu,

Thank you for sharing MFAC concerts.Concerts on Jan 1 till 2006 was performed by Sri Lalgudi sir as Violin duet/trio.From 2007 onwards,Lalgudi Siblings regularly perform on Jan 1
at 09:30 hrs.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Nov 2013, 23:59

Dear Punarvasu,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I WAS EXACTLY like you & it took SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE I could even utter one word to these giants! As I had corresponded with LGJ even before he moved to Madras it was easier but the EXCITEMENT YOU have conveyed is infectious & really gives the feelings we all had. VKV
Dear hnbhagavan,
Actually L.D. in pages 174 & 261 has described both the importance as well as LGJ'S OWN views about his MFAC (Mylapore Fine Arts Club). I have attended many of these concerts tho' I was living in USA since 1959! In 1964 MFAC asked LGJ to play a solo concert in place of Alathoor Subbaiyer who had fallen ill. PALHAT MANI IYER who was part of the original team SURPRISED every one by agreeing to play Mridangam- He had not played for a female artist then- for that concert saying SRIMATHI was like his daughter. This was the "HIGH POINT" OF LGJ'S solo career as well as the FIRST TIME PMI played for LGJ SOLO. To quote LGJ" I can never thank MFAC enough for considering my solo as an alternative to the cancelled Alathur concert.Because of this I received the good fortune of having PMI'S accompaniment. What a brilliant artiste he was".
Historically the tradition of ushering in the New year with the LGJ SOLO was started by Balasubramanya Sangeetha Sabha in 1966 & continued by MFAS FROM 1978. Sachin T has said his Favourite cricket ground was MCC in Madras (later called Various other names) & his Best knock (according to him)was his century which I was lucky to witness(Against Australia when sixer Siddhu & Sachin thrashed Shane Warne). In a similar fashion the BEST CONCERTS of MMI took place in Mani Mandapam ( in Tiruchy with PSP according to MMI himself, GNB'S Best were in Hindu H.S.Triplicane (where his father used to be Head Master), and LGJ'S Solos among the best were in MFAC. My classmate Late SS Venkataraman (also known as LIC Venkataraman) had the honuor of garlanding LGJ EVERY YEAR at that concert! (He was so lucky MMI would ask "Is LIC Venkataraman there" before starting his concerts-).I used to be in the last row 1 Rupee group with him!..As Punarvasu has observed "Those were the days" Many of us still say "Anda Nalium Vandhidadho" (will those days) return!....VKV

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 11 Nov 2013, 00:56

Dear vkv sir,

I was one of these mad fans who wanted to take up the violin as a child because the very first musical recording I heard as an infant was a Lalgudi recording. So much was his impact that I was buying or downloading any recording that had Lalgudi or LGJ on it -- not even caring who the main artiste was and I now understand I was not alone. Of course, I never understood (and just am beginning to understand) what kind of perspiration lies behind such inspiration. Even now whenever I am in town if there is a Lalgudi siblings concert I will almost certainly be there. I heard him only once in a live performance -- 2004 MFAC New year concert and managed to meet him for a few seconds a couple of years ago in AIR when one of his recordings was released. He asked me my guru's name and wanted me to come and play at his home, but I was so petrified knowing fully I could only dream of playing phrases like he could that I never summoned the courage (and I regret it till now).

Although much has been said about his accompaniment, I will say it again in my own way. To make a great accompanist, there are two things to overcome -- 1) The barrier between the ear and the instantaneous ability to grasp it -- this is more of a CPU processing function 2) The limitation between how much the ear can hear and how much of that can be grasped and stored in the memory for long term retrieval -- this is more of a "RAM" or a "Flash memory" function 3) The amount of music that can be created in one's mind while playing a violin which is significantly more demanding on the brain than vocal music, 4) The barrier between the music in one's mind (both instantaneous, short term and long term memory) and the ability to transfer it on to the instrument -- a function of technical skill and 5) The barrier between a violinist's playing skill and his Laya and Tala skills !!! -- Thus playing a violin at LGJ's level requires penta core levels of processing!

From this angle, one can see that there were some violinists who excelled at breaking some of these barriers in particular, but LGJ was the first one I know who could successfully break through all 5 barriers. At his best moments (which is to say, most of the time) there was no gap between what he grasped, what he had in mind and what he could play. Compared to his solos, Lalgudi took many more risks in playing accompaniment and such was the speed of his CPU and his nerves that he could again and again succeed.

Although many other violinists also excelled at spot reproduction (where they followed the main artiste with a few seconds lag), only LGJ had this unbelievable long term memory to remember whole alapanas, complicated kanakku or svara patterns and even rephrase the main artiste's phrases giving rise to his own touches. He was the first to fully conquer all 5 barriers of violin playing.

One lesser thing about LGJ as a teacher that no one has talked about is his genius in his ability to write notations. His notations symbolized all the gamakas with easily understandable curves and symbols that show how the phrases flow up and down INSIDE the swaras and he had shown clearly which gamakas to use taking the lyrics into account (For e.g. Singing the swaras of the pallavi, etc... in a varnam can have many gamakas, but the syllables and splitting of the lyrics will dictate which of these should be used while singing the lyrics). In this his hand written music books are better than any other book in the market and can show even very delicate nuances. I was so inspired by this I developed my own notation system while I was in college after which I could transcribe pretty much any musical phrase or brigha with the exact gamaka variations I was looking for and it was only possible after going through his book of compositions. In this even "AN INCURABLE ROMANTIC" doesn't delve too deep into the technical aspects of his music (for obvious reasons) -- but a concerted effort in this direction would be very beneficial to serious enthusiasts and students but there is always plenty more to talk about with so many knowledgeable musicians and rasikas.

Now about the technical aspects to his playing, there are many factors to consider -- bowing techniques, tone production, tonal variations, left hand technique, gamaka playing, brighas, clarity of articulation, intonation -- it is such a huge topic. And while you have covered many of the things that make an artiste great, I may add one more element -- his pratice. How he sculpted each phrase, how he brought his music to the level of polish, what all he practiced in a session, how he approached laya related matters -- how he successfully combined cerebral genius with soul stirring emotion. We can keep talking about this for a long long time.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Nov 2013, 01:25

cacm wrote:1) LGJ'S EVOLUTION AS A PERFORMER(1)
I want to briefly examine the "State of Affairs" around 1942 when Lalgudi emerged in Public as a performer. At that time the ROLE of the violinist was strictly PLAYING "SECOND FIDDLE" -As a matter of fact VIOLIN was called Fiddle!- and by the time LGJ, TNK, MSG EMERGED AS LEADING ARTISTS IN THEIR OWN RIGHT & PMI, PSP ELEVATED THE CARNATIC MUSIC CONCERT reached the status to the level ready for the GOLDEN AGE (which I hope to cover). Due to length constraints I will restrict list of performers & concentrate on LGJ the subject of these posts.
Though GIANTS like T.Chowdiah & Kumbakonam Rajamanikkam Pillai were the accompanying artists & Chembai, GNB, MMI especially PAID RESPECTS to their artistry& knowledge in the OPEN during their concerts the role of accompanying artists was pretty much treated as a minor necessity MOST of the time & relegated to a minor role. Actually TNK was mostly reduced to make the concerts interesting for ARI & SEM etc.. Artists like SEM reminded accompanists of their expected subservient roles & openly put down accompanists even yanking the microphone at times. MSG was lucky to play for CHEMBAI who OPENLY encouraged & praised his accompanists as well as giving them opportunities like giving PSP 4 THANIS in a single concert etc; However he was put down as playing an admixture of carnatic & hindustani styles etc. LGJ was FORTUNATE in that he was a TOTAL OUTSIDER. Like GNB who burst in like a comet & MMI whose fan support was such it demanded his concerts, LGJ WAS a meteor which lighted the sky though he was supposed to play second fiddle.
Along with Late S.S.Venkataraman I have visited LGJ'S place in Chennai (almost everyday) to report to Gopala Iyer (LGJ'S DAD& GURU) our account of LGJ'S Concert the previous day's concert. As the EXPERT Dr.N.Ramanathan has pointed out for many irrespective of who the main performer was it was a LALGUDI CONCERT! Gopala Iyer was fascinating & educated us about many things to the extent I can write a separate book on him. We rarely spoke to LGJ who was almost always practising (many times with Srimathi Brahmanandam) in a back room & when we left would just smile at us knowing we would be showing up at his next concert!
Briefly stated his belief was GENIUS is 99 percent Prespiration with one percent inspiration. To be a good accompanist requires the abilities to follow & understand the main artist. LGJ agreed with this himself & implemented it to perfection beyond belief! (to be continued)

In this brief post I wish to BRIEFLY concentrate on LGJ'S BREADTH OF COMMAND AS AN ACCOMPANIST which drew SPONTANEOUS PRAISE and ADMIRATION FROM THE GIANTS OF THE GOLDEN AGE:
Before I start I wish to point out that there were many accompanying giants who were happy& satisfied to enhance the concert experience by co-operating with the main artistes and submerging their own Himalayan Talents like C.S.Murugabhoopathy (Whose perfection was such that MMI sang an entire concert in Shanmugananada Sabha when the Thambura acted up with listening to his Mridangam & Madurai Somu who said he was singing only to hear CSM PLAY!), R K Venkatarama Sastriar & SUSWARAM Tiruvalngadu Sundareswara Iyer whose PERFECTION CONTINUALLY AMAZED M.S.S. , V.R. whose VERSATILITY & NADAM AMAZED EVERY ONE INCLUDING LAYA "TIGERS" ("PULIS!) like MALI & Alathoor Bros. Particularly I must mention the GREAT Palghat Raghu & TIRUCHY SANKARAN who SUCCESSFULLY not only survived by including the strengths of PSP& PMI - IN REVERSE!-& CREATING THEIR OWN STYLES.
In GENERAL the major areas of Expertise- for discussion purposes- in the Golden Era CAN BE subdivided into: Melody&Swara based singing of MMI, Raga expertise of GNB, LAYA expertise of Alathoor bros & Mudicondan. Of course Kaliyuga Nandhi PMI & PSP are among others MORE COMPETENT TO COMMENT ON LGJ'S GENIUS. So I will only observe & quote them starting with LGJ : A proper grounding in vocal music is an indispensable prerequisite for playing an instrument. This is not my own theory but the practical wisdom of our family". With Gopala Iyer's insistance (and LGJ'S ABILITY TO ABSORB ANYTHING RENDERED IN THE FIRST INSTANCE ITSELF PERFECTLY)on hearing & practising the styles of EVERY LEADING MUSICIAN it is not surprising give his talents they observed:
Even as he finished his first song (in the very first concert LGJ accompanied him) Nada Thanum Anisam Madurai Mani Iyer 's expression reflected astonishment. Unable to contain his joy he exclaimed "Nobody has ever played for me, in my own style, like you just did". This absorption of MMI continued every time LGJ accompanied him. He actually was criticized for ELEVATING the status of an accompanist! He continued to openly admire the accompaniment of LGJ & asked Vembu Iyer to make sure LGJ was available to accompany him...
Half an hour into the concert GNB stopped singing & beamed at LGJ! LGJ" Had that session with GNB been recorded it would have in how many different ways I was tested by the maestro". GNB wrote to a Sabha in Bangalore" When Jayaraman is there where is the need to fix another violinist? J& I are inseparable"
The 1954 M.A. President Chittoor Subramania Pillai himself a giant in laya observed about the Shanmarga pallavi in 32 kalais rendered by Mudicondan with LGJ RECRUITED without any preparation or warning by PSP FOR Mudicondan said" Hillary's conquest of Mount Everest is nothing compared to Mudicodan's Herculean achievement. What astounded me was that the young LGJ was able to reproduce flawlessly reproduce that scholarly display"
PMI told LGJ was blessed with BRAHMALAYAM. Coming from Kaliyuga Nandhi its no small praise. Flute MALI who could not falter in LAYAM even if he tried & wanted to was all praise for LGJ'S Laya GNANAM& EXECUTION. So were the Alathur brothers who tried very hard to test him!
I am writing all this as a prelude to hopeflly EXPERTS in this forum discussing these in more detail. As I had written I am liberally using what L.D. has with very hard research & work written in her book.VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 13 Nov 2013, 02:00

[quote="cacm"]I have BRIEFLY initiated the subject of LGJ as an accompanist in the previous posts to give a historical starting point as well as how he started as a performer in Carnatic music. Similarly I want to start discussions on LGJ'S CONTRIBUTIONS as SOLOIST as I feel it truly enables one to analyze & understand not only his abilities as Genius but HIS UNIQUE CONTRIBUTIONS (1B).
As an accompanist he had revolutionised the art of accompanying, ESTABLISHING THE VIOLIN as EQUAL to the main artist (though he did it in a VERY SUBTLE FASHION) without affecting or interfering with the flow, style, and creativity of the main performer. This meant he had to acquise by not pointing out the shortcomings of the main performer while emphasising the strengths. Obviously this involves lots of compromises but his genius enabled him to "LIFT" any concert he was involved with to greater and loftier levels. As Dr.N.Ramanathan has correctly pointed out while learning live on stage with the GIANTS any concert he was involved with ende up being labeled as a Lalgudi concert.......I cannot write like L.D. & LACK BOTH THE DEPTH & ABILITY OF L.D. TO COMMUNICATE but my aim here is to begin a discussion so we can all benefit from the experiences & insights of anyone who has heard/studied LGJ because he provides us with a unique window to answer the questions about why many are still enamoured with the Golden Age & how a genius can alter even the mathematical equations almost ie if the sum of the parts can be greater than the whole! It also raises the philosophical questions about Objective Vs Subjective truths etc not to mention the subject of Infinities I had mentioned before.....
While his violin "Succeeded in acheiving what he set out to do , namely endow a mute instrument with a tongue so that it might sort of sing"(Sruti,1990)LGJ firmly declared "Vocal music reigns supreme" and in our system of music cannot be equalled by any instrument though violin comes closest. He has come closest to being perfect in Almost ALL aspects as his pedigree discipline and creative talents enabled him to reach great heights.It is these aspects that DESERVE CLOSE SCRUTINY which I hope to pursue. LGJ also said: "Music exists for people and it's not the other way around"
I was very lucky to have attended LGJ-SRIMATHI FIRST SOLO(1958 dec) in Madras at The Ayyappa Utsavam in George Utsavam which olnly his mother attended.Needless to say the debut was such a roaring success that in three weeks they performed at KGS (with UKS as accompanist) & it was ALL SUCCESS from the on....
L.D. has pointed out that Gopala Iyer giving the go-ahead had added: "Create something original, a new style that reflects the best of others".
We want to examine this suggestion that turned out to be in line with LGJ'S ORIENTATION towards music that had as ts hall marks creativity and originality. I request others to share with me a detailed analysis of the various aspects of LGJ'S GENIUS. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Nov 2013, 10:04

It is generally agreed that our music can broadly be studied under two major categories : Kalpitha-Songs ORIGINALLY composed by various composers and later performed by artists. Manodharma- Musical structures that are shaped by the artists in real time
(though they may be prepared ahead of time) using their imagination. Dr. Bruno Netl has called them as Created and Creative. Dr. N.Ramanathan (the expert L.D. has relied on as a LGJ Expert) has further subdivided these into two types of Melodic Structuring: Crystalline and Amorphous. We will proceed directly to LGJ'S Contributions as HE IS UNIQUE as he fits the various roles like: Composer, Performer and though a solo violinist he created the illusion of listening to vocal music.As Sruti(1990) pointed out in 1990 " Lalgudi has succeeded in acheiving what he set out to do , namely to endow a mute instrument with a "tongue" so that it might sort of sing" and the singing violin of LGJ conveyed a variety of expressions HANDLING SOUND AND SILENCE with equal sensitivity.
The fascinating and interesting aspect of LGJ'S Genius and approach is based on his conviction that VOCAL MUSIC IS SUPREME and he was moved more by passion than any other consideration (L.D.). I will add PERFECTION to this list.
His knowledge of the LANGUAGE, the context and composer's intent, the technical grammar of the composition combined with the ability to implement it close to composer's intent made his renderings close to PERFECTION in the Kalpitha aspect. In addition his knowledge of the capabilities & limitations of his instrument plus his creative genius enabled him to INNOVATE even in the Kalpitha aspect which one would think was not possible. As an example his rendering of NADALOLUDAI REVOLUTIONISED the way it was rendered in the fifties and made persons like me DECIDE LGJ should go worldwide and explain our music & our efforts proved successful at least initially in terms of a North American Tour! He studied the Kalyanavasantham piece which B.M.Sundaram had procured from an old lady from Andhrapradesh & with Selam Desikan's help came up with his version. MANY Musicians accepted his version. 32 other compositions received the LGJ treatment and came to be accepted as compositions played in the LALGUDI BHANI.
The guiding principles for his decisions were unfailing adherence to the grammar of the raga , loyalty to the song, fidelity to the lyrics and enhancement of the song or raga or both.
"Irrespective of whether his efforts received accolades or brick bats ,LGJ continued to "settle" compositions in the way he thought best. The experimentations and innovations of LGJ were not done overnight but spread out over the decades. Together they form quite a treasureable chest" (L.D.)
I welcome rasikas to share their own opinions on the Kalpitha aspect of LGJ'S MUSIC. VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Nov 2013, 14:06

VKV Sir,
I am sharing the gist of few impromptu discussions I had with Great Maestro.
1. Violin Accompaniment:
1.1. Artist should start accompaniment only after achievement sufficient expertise on both the fingering and bowing techniques of the Guru and also learning about the techniques of other Maestros-both theoretical and practical.
1.2. Artist should have insights on the body positioning, body language, aspects of comfort and ease enabling him to avoid blemishes which can be attributed to lack of this knowledge.
1.3. To continuously improve the lakshya gnanam, setting aside the preferences and prejudices. To develop belief system and humility that any performer given the opportunity to perform must have attained certain standard and quality and might be either interesting or sets the mind thinking to explore the possibilities or the limitations.
1.4. To take full advantage of inherent ability on memory and also learn to know and practice the memorizing technique, which will help in achieving success in performance.
1.5. To continuously learn and improve the repertoire and also to develop commitment for sampradaya or tradition.
1.6. To seriously prepare to familiarize with the performer’s music both kalpita and manodharma aspects. To accompany Great Maestro and Maestro, practices well keeping in mind the observation and their style. Also the art of how other artist(s) accompany and gaining the acceptance and appreciation of the artist(s).
1.7. To keep the self dignity and try to appease to win favors.
1.8. After achieving fair amount of appreciation, recognition and respect, maintain high visibility and profile. Net work to advantage.
1.9. To maintain and enjoy good health, life style and discipline.
1.10. To be open minded and enjoy the other genre of music.

2. Soloist:
2.1. Must have achieved reputation for ones Bani and Style.
2.2. Must have achieved popularity to get the support of committed rasikas and Sabhas.
2.3. Must have secured ‘A’ ranking by AIR.
2.4. Must have earned the appreciation, respect and blessings of the Maha Vidwans.
2.5. Must be prepared for ignorance or avoidance by the Vocalist Vidwans.
2.6. Must have the family support.

One can easily comprehend the sadhana of this Great Maestro and legend to attain the mastery, if we truly understand his wonderful insights. All the technical aspects and many more sharing of the wealth of his knowledge might have been communicated by his direct disciples and peers and written in the book by Smt.Lakshmi Devanathan. I am keenly looking forward to read the book and learn more about this legend.

Munirao2001

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 16 Nov 2013, 21:14

Dear Sri VKV,

I have talked to several rasilas and they are not very much aware of Lalgudi as a complete musician.Lakshmi Devnath's book and the details you are providing in these columns give further insight into his scholarly deeds.I recall the following articles in the Hindu in support of this.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 648024.ece
Definitely he has projected Violin could be on the main platform and this is evident from the number of Violin performers.As a teacher he was par excellence as evidenced by the number of youngsters performing on the stage now.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 17 Nov 2013, 00:00

Dear Sri Munirao2001 & HnBhagavan,
THANKS FOR sharing your insights. I hope to cover all the major Kalpitha & Manodharma aspects of LGJ & sharing my experiences along the way. By the time we are done I am hoping to at least partially UNRAVEL how & why LGJ was a glue in making the GOLDEN ERA still creates echoes with persons who have not heard the masters in person. VKV

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 17 Nov 2013, 18:44

cacm wrote: His knowledge of the LANGUAGE, the context and composer's intent, the technical grammar of the composition combined with the ability to implement it close to composer's intent made his renderings close to PERFECTION in the Kalpitha aspect. In addition his knowledge of the capabilities & limitations of his instrument plus his creative genius enabled him to INNOVATE even in the Kalpitha aspect which one would think was not possible. As an example his rendering of NADALOLUDAI REVOLUTIONISED the way it was rendered in the fifties and made persons like me DECIDE LGJ should go worldwide and explain our music & our efforts proved successful at least initially in terms of a North American Tour! He studied the Kalyanavasantham piece which B.M.Sundaram had procured from an old lady from Andhrapradesh & with Selam Desikan's help came up with his version. MANY Musicians accepted his version. 32 other compositions received the LGJ treatment and came to be accepted as compositions played in the LALGUDI BHANI.

VKV sir
I kind of relate to what you wrote ,as nadaloludai has not been taken by artists half a generation before and may be LGJ first took it up. May I know a list of 32 other compositions(atleast whatever you recollect)???. I am atleast thinking enta muddo enta sogusO in bindumAlini was also first tried by LGJ in concerts and many musicians accepted his version.

In general , not to challenge your statement - just few inputs there. In general those who are born between 1925 to possibly 1945 are indeed very fortunate . While many many ragas like kalyanavasantham etc were considered bit of taboo by generation of those who are born from 1890 to 1925, these musicians had the sound foundation from their previous generation , and indeed pushed the carnatic envelope by going with a new subset of ragas and also many unknown krithis.

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 17 Nov 2013, 21:49

There is a different version of Nadaloludai - Kalyanavasantham; I think Madurai Somu used to sing that version. There is another Thyagaraja krithi in Kalyanavasantham - Kanuluthanga which GNB used to sing, and SKR has rendered detailed alapana in Kalyanavasantham in some concerts.

I was surprised to hear another version of Lalgudi Pancharata krithi - Lalithe Sree (Bhairavi) ; rendered by Alathur Srinivasa Iyer with Lalgudi and Mani Iyer in a National program of music. Srinivasa Iyer hailing from the neighboring village, Valadi next to Lalgudi.

I think there are some rare thyagaraja krithis only I have heard Lalgudi used to render - Mati Mati ki delpa (Mohanam), Raghu Nandana Raja mohana (suddha desi), ... If these were vocal renditions, these krithis would have become more popular.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 18 Nov 2013, 01:13

Dear Sri Rajeshnat & Annamalai, YOUR QUERIES have raised questions above my pay grade as its commonly called in usa! I will try to respond mostly relying on the L.D. Book where it is discussed on p182-183.
Apart from the Nadaloludai "settling"(as its called normally) which is rather well known Najjevaradha(Bilahari) is another where "his graded sangathis , chiselled to perfection have been acclaimed as an example of architectonics at its best". Dr.N.Ramanathan has pointed out that LGJ RETURNED to the popular version of Aparadhamula(Rasali) in 1970's where it fits perfectly into the Desadi Tala which is the Teen thal of hindusthani music which I conclude he didn't like. Similarly while the most CLASSICIST of all musicians BRINDA appears to have wholeheartedly approved of his "settlings"! For example in the Kambodhi Lalgudi Pancharatnam Mahita Pravrddha (in Misra Chapu) Ritha Rajan who has studied the Umayalpuram manuscripts says LGJ'Padantharam is in Tisra triputa thala like a KSETHRAYYA padam. I AM TRYING TO FIND THE COMPLETE LIST OF LGJ'S 33 SUCH ATTEMPTS. SIMILARLY I am trying to COLLECT A LIST OF ALL HIS PALLAVIS which are EXCEPTIONAL LIKE EVERYTHING HE DID!ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING PL WRITE IT HERE.
Reg the Bindumalini Kriti my memory is that BMK RENDERED & POPUALARISED IT BEFORE LGJ. LIKE MMI whatever LGJ RENDERED BECOMES HIS OWN! I CANNOT FORGET THE STANDING OVATION LGJ RECEIVED IN PHILHARMONIC HALL IN NYC WHEN HE RENDERED IT AS MAIN!
I was hoping to use these examples as cases where one thinks of KALPITHA as a rigid framework LGJ found ways to innovate and especially because of his DEEP understanding of the language, intent of the composer, HIS OWN DEEP THINKING&ANALYSIS , just USING THE SANGATIS APPROPRIATELY he has innovated in an area where TRADITION RULED THE ROOST! I REQUEST EXPERTS MORE COMPETENT THAN ME TO COMMENT. VKV

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 18 Nov 2013, 06:12

annamalai wrote:
There is a different version of Nadaloludai - Kalyanavasantham; I think Madurai Somu used to sing that version.

This brings to mind what I read in a Tamil magazine (most likely, Ananda Vikatan)where I read about the proceedings of the discussions at Music Academy. This must have been in the early 1970s.

In one session, the magazine reported that a vidwan (not named by the magazine) got up and said that the raga Kalyanavasantham has been modified from its original form and asked why Lalgudi Jayaraman is knowingly contributing to this deviation from tradition. Dramatizing the situation, the magazine reported that the questioner had tears in his eyes at this sacrilege.

This had bothered me since that time and about three years ago I had the opportunity to ask Sri Lalgudi Jayaraman himself if there was a different version of Kalyanavasantham. He acknowledged that a version differing in dhaivatham -- my memory is hazy on this -- exists. I didn't dare ask him then who changed it to the version that he used to play.

But this kind of tampering with ragas and krithis has been going on for a long time.

The most well-known one is the changing of "Nagumomu ganaleni naa jaali thelisi" from Abheri to Karnataka Devagandhari reportedly by Musiri. With the new tune, one could say that even the sahithyam now got changed to "Nagumomu ganaleni naa jolly thelisi" because the mood of the song changed from pathos to gaiety.

Musicologists have condemned the re-casting of Hamsanadham and moving it from being under the melakartha raga Neethimathi.

Isn't it "Rama Neeyeda" that has been re-tuned from Dileepakam into Kharaharapriya?

Smt R Vedavalli has released a CD with some of these songs in their original versions. The name of the CD is "Pramaanam".

annamalai wrote:
I think there are some rare thyagaraja krithis only I have heard Lalgudi used to render - Mati Mati ki delpa (Mohanam), Raghu Nandana Raja mohana (suddha desi), ... If these were vocal renditions, these krithis would have become more popular.

A similar fate has occurred to a number of Deekshithar krithis. However, you get to hear them in the akhandams organized by various groups. In fact, a complete set of all of Deekshithar's krithis can be compiled from these akhandams but I am not sure such a complete set is available for Sri Thyagaraja's krithis.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 18 Nov 2013, 08:59

harimau wrote:He acknowledged that a version differing in dhaivatham -- my memory is hazy on this

The "controversy" is indeed over the the usage of dhaivatam. Kalyanavasantham as we know it uses D1, making it Keeravani janyam and has some character and emotive appeal. Change the dhaivatam to D2 and it becomes Gowrimanohari janyam and has neither character nor appeal. It is a very odd sounding rAga, I just tried it out for a few minutes

. I am no musicologist or musician, but I am betting that the D1 version is of a more authentic vintage. Perhaps the "controversy" may have arisen due to the fact that something played predominantly on the nagasvaram sometimes can morph swarasthanas.

harimau wrote:The most well-known one is the changing of "Nagumomu ganaleni naa jaali thelisi" from Abheri to Karnataka Devagandhari reportedly by Musiri. With the new tune, one could say that even the sahithyam now got changed to "Nagumomu ganaleni naa jolly thelisi" because the mood of the song changed from pathos to gaiety.

Indeed. In this case the process is called "Abherration".

There's also the case of the rUpavati kriti Morabettide being changed to Todi (possibly by Naina Pillai??). This kind of tampering is extremely unfortunate because Tyagaraja has composed a mere handful in vivAdhi's and any loss of the original paatam is irreparable. One may say of this kriti, in a horrible trilingual pun involving Hindi, Kannada, and English "Todi morph aai bittide".

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 18 Nov 2013, 09:15

uday_shankar wrote:
There's also the case of the rUpavati kriti Morabettide being changed to Todi (possibly by Naina Pillai??). This kind of tampering is extremely unfortunate because Tyagaraja has composed a mere handful in vivAdhi's and any loss of the original paatam is irreparable. One may say of this kriti, in a horrible trilingual pun involving Hindi, Kannada, and English "Todi morph aai bittide".

That is too convoluted for my taste. :p

"Morph agivittade" would be my preference.

Only English and Tamil.

Also satisfies Occam's Razor: As simple as possible.

PS. It is vain to do with more what can be done with fewer. [-x

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Nov 2013, 10:35

Don't know enough Tamil, how about
mAriviTTadu.

In Kannada one would say
mArpADiside.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Nov 2013, 10:38

Did Vid. Vedavalli render in that CD the Nagumomu without the Abherration attributed to her guru?

Post Edit: I have been corrected ..I was thinking Smt V was Musiri's disciple but her guru was Mudikondan.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Nov 2013, 11:46

Rsachi wrote:Did Vid. Vedavalli render in that CD the Nagumomu without the Abherration attributed to her guru?

Smt Vedavalli's guru was Mudicondan Venkatrama Iyer, not Musiri.
[update]Sorry, correction noted as posts crossed[/update]

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 18 Nov 2013, 12:14

Rsachi wrote:
Did Vid. Vedavalli render in that CD the Nagumomu without the Abherration?

Yes. This is the list of songs contained in the 2-CD album produced by SwathiSoft.

Disc 1

1 Introduction
2 Viriboni Varnam
3 Nada Tanumanisham
4 Banturiti - Hamsanadam
5 Ramaniyada - Dilipakam
6 Seetamma Mayamma
7 Gnanamosagarada

Disc 2
1 Chetulara Sringaramu
2 Ni Dasanu
3 Nagumomu
4 Ninnuvina Marigalada
5 Maye Tvam Yahi
6 Krishnananda
7 Parvati Ninnu