Deserving personalities to whom SK was not awarded & reasons

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 23 Feb 2013, 21:22

Fans do not nominate or select Academy Award winners. In fact, highest grossing films rarely take the honours at the Oscars. The reporters have their own award, which is the Golden Globes.

EVERYTHING in life is riddled with politics and inequity. I highly recommend Rousseau's Origins of Inequality for anyone who thinks otherwise.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 23 Feb 2013, 21:24

It is interesting to know the behind the scene happenings for the title of sangeethakalanidhi.Under Sri Murali,Music Academy has made great strides and given fair treatment for the deserving candidates.However as the number of deserving musicians are many in number,sometimes Musicians may feel ignored.Sri T V Gopalakrishnan,the great versatile musician deserves a sincere consideration from the academy.Netiyankara Vasudevan was a great musician and deserved the coveted title

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Feb 2013, 22:08

RaviSri, you have referred a couple of times to the worry of the MA officials that a musician is not considered the right person to preside over the proceedings ( MVI, TNR etc. ). Assuming those are the actual reasons in those specific cases ( and not excuses ) I wonder if the Sangitha Kalanidhi title, as originally conceived, is really not an award but an appointment to conduct the annual music conference and concerts.

If that is the case, It is like being appointed as the CEO or the Head of the department, or a dean, or a chief justice or an Ambassador etc. The fact that it is prestigious and honorable adds a lot of value but it still need not be an award in the sense of 'Sangeetha Kala Acharya' or 'Sangeetha Kala Shikhamani' etc.

The distinction may seem trivial but if it is really an appointment and not an award, such an appointment can be made again and again. Just like a dean can serve as a dean for a year. take a break and come back and serve as a dean another year. But it does not make sense to give the same award to the same person again and again. The joke RaviSri played with SSI is not impossible if it is really thought of as an appointment. If this is the case, Semmangudi could have turned the table back on his distractors by saying 'I humbly accept because there is no one else qualified to conduct the proceedings this year'

Over time, may be it got the attribution of an award and the appointment aspect of it got relegated to the background.

This is just my speculation and I have been meaning to read through the journals of late thirties to see if there are any discussions on the thoughts behind SK but have not got around to it.

Is there any truth to my speculation?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 23 Feb 2013, 22:25

It IS a title, awarded with fanfare. Unlike Padma awards, the title is prefixed to the name later. The conferment happens during the Sadas, presided over by some other worthy.
The awardee presides over the annual conference from day one. See from the Academy archives 1961:

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2013, 22:29

Good point VK!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 02:00

A very interesting analysis of MA and the Tamizh Isai Movement. A must read...
http://ir.minpaku.ac.jp/dspace/bitstrea ... 71_009.pdf

srini_pichumani · Post by **srini_pichumani** » 24 Feb 2013, 08:32

CMLover,

Just a caution -- Yoshitaka Terada is quite blinded in his papers by his informants which unfortunately includes Prof.T.Viswa, a person I respect and have hosted in Ann Arbor couple of times and arranged concerts for through SPICMACAY. This problem of Indologists being blinkered by their informants is quite common.

For example, Terada seems to be completely oblivious to caste relationships and peer relationships operating in music (as in other fields) other than a simple Brahmin/Non-Brahmin contrast.

There is an interesting anecdote about TNR and Karaikuricci themselves in this regard -- revolves around the castes to which they belonged... Terada is quite innocent of such nuances.

Also, RaviSri had written:

>> It was decided almost unanimously that a scion of that family would preside over the conference.
>> T.Viswanathan presided that year and got the SK. There was no controversy

Other than Dhanammal family fans and hagiographers, many found this insulting to N.Ramani at that time. So, this decision was not without its bit of controversy.

>> and a whole day was set aside for the stalwarts of that family to perform.

That indeed was an enjoyable day -- for me the highlight was listening to Brindamma and Vinita Venkataraman playing veena duet, and Viswa's flute/vocal -- and the last time I attended the December season !

-Srini.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 24 Feb 2013, 09:00

That damned caste business is a part of most of our lives - musical or musical .
For three decades , I have been careful not to disclose my caste in many homes and enjoy the discomfiture of the hosts .
To my chagrin , in my younger days , I also noticed that I was offered coffee in the same steel cup at a friends home which I used to frequent often .A home which now has a meat eating son in law .

An organiser from the north once told me a sad story about A famous vidwan who was lodged in his home with the accompanists - when they visited for a concert . The accompanists would rush home after the concert , beating the main artist in pace , so that they could have their meal undiluted . The main performer would appear later ( what seems now a deliberate act ) and the first thing he would ask was - Did those blokes eat well and fully . I hope they did not rush it up , for my sake . That is why I came slowly . They were so wonderful in the concert .

This caste business is a painful one and some paths are likely to lead into our own backyards .
So let us get moving without going into that . We as a nation have moved on , seeing our own daughters and sons marry into families that was unthinkable few decades ago .
Let us stick to musical merits . Some of this past is irreversible - with or without sandhyavandanams . it is a dfferent matter how these late masters will explain themselves in their audiences with that ultimate judge .

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 10:15

Good caution Srini:
We always assume that a Westerner (or for that matter a easterner) will be objective in their comments, but
Ignore the factor of the bias in their sources. The reverse bias operates when we look to local or intimate
Sources! Then there is no hope of an objective History!

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 24 Feb 2013, 11:29

When the Annual conferences started in 1929, there was no Sangeetha Kalanidhi. But senior musicians, musicologists were ‘appointed’ to preside over the proceedings. The initial years' presidents with the year they presided in brackets are as follows: T. V. Subba Rao (1929), Harikesanallur Muthiah Bhagavatart (1930), Pazamaneri Swaminatha Iyer (1931), Tiger (1932), Ponniah Pillai (1933), T.S. Sabesha Iyer (1934), Mysore Vasudevachar (1935), Umayalpuram Swaminatha Iyer (1936), Mangudi Chidambara Bhagavatar (1937), Ariyakkudi (1938), Musiri (1939), Kallidaikurichi Vedanta Bhagavatar (1940), Dwaram Venkatasami Naidu (1941), Mazhavarayanendal Subbarama Bhagavatar (1942).

It was in 1943 that the title Sangeetha Kalanidhi was instituted and it was decided that the year’s annual conference president would receive the award at the end of the conference. Palladam Sanjeeva Rao was chosen as the president of the 1943 conference. On January 1st 1944, along with Palladam, all the previous conference presidents were awarded the Sangeetha Kalanidhi.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 21:36

Now there is a plethora of titles Sangita Acharya, Sangita Ratnakara etc., but SK appears special due to the
academic atmosphere of the Music Academy! Is there a cash award?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Feb 2013, 23:06

cmlover wrote: We always assume that a Westerner (or for that matter a easterner) will be objective in their comments, but
Ignore the factor of the bias in their sources. The reverse bias operates when we look to local or intimate
Sources! Then there is no hope of an objective History!

I agree there is that bias which is bothersome. I think it is changing. Also, we should not be under the impression that History is objective. History is written by survivors and it suffers from that survivor bias big time. Hopefully, given that we have better records in the modern times, it will be better. But still the 'mass' belief systems tend to be affected enormously by the survivor bias and that is not going to change just because we have 24/7/365 internet records of everything. It is not a scientific issue but a sociological issue where there are millions of people involved in propagating belief systems.

But in general, in "soft science" fields such as anthropology, ethno-musicology and ethno-history, one should always look at it with a good dosage of skepticism, no matter what the source is. While going into it, I would not expect objectivity at all and it is up to the author to demonstrate credibility and some measure of objectivity. For that purpose, the writing style ( whether it is logical, cogent etc. ), the credibility of the author, where it was published ( the credibility of the publication, whether it was peer-reviewed, the post publication commentary etc. need to be considered.

Such fields are always full of controversy due to the nature of the subject matter. One should not assume a western ( or non-indian ) source is beyond doubt since that is just not the case. Only thing is, their output is taken seriously enough to be considered worthy of debate. Again, it is not the name of the author that matters. An Indian author(s) writing from a good institution will be taken seriously enough to be trashed by his peers

That is a big honor indeed!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2013, 00:04

The problem is the "hero worship" that is inherent in our culture. We look more to the person than to what he says
and even saint him for his statements many times undeservingly. Where else will you find folks ready to burn
themselves to defend their pet hero except in TN? Dying for a cause or for one's country is differeent.
CM history is never well written. Too much emphasis as BT and AT (before Trinityand after Trinity).
As RaviSri is exposing the History of SK institutionally; it needs to be told for us to evaluate the Golden Oldies.
The so-called Golden Era was riddled with politics and intrigues Which once we understand we may
appreciate better the present generation of upcoming artistes!

kalyani_ragam · Post by **kalyani_ragam** » 25 Feb 2013, 18:00

cmlover wrote:Now there is a plethora of titles Sangita Acharya, Sangita Ratnakara etc., but SK appears special due to the
academic atmosphere of the Music Academy! Is there a cash award?

SK appears special because people like you endlessly keep debating about it. Who is deserving, who is not, who does not deserve got it, who played politics for someone not to get etc etc..

Whay cant this be seen as a recognition for X amount of talent. If awards are given to any tom dick and harry, it loses its charm. Amongst the people who have been given this title, I doubt if anyone is less deserving. Yes, some have not been given. But that has not make them any less popular.

More than a dozen a year are awarded the various Padma awards. But with a 1 Billion Population that India has, there will be far too many who has be deserving to be awarded. Can all be given. I doubt..

Rather than gossiping endlessly on this, you may try something which is mroe productive

My two cents..

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 25 Feb 2013, 21:28

Kalyani_ragam,
I think you're missing the point somewhat here.
This thread is about deserving personalities who were denied SK - as we have since been told, by a lot of chicanery.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Feb 2013, 23:52

There are many things that only have value or importance because they are given it. How many sabhas give how many awards, and yet, which is the one that grabs the attention, not only every year, but all year! It really is not reasonable that one organisation, one award, gets so much notice.

But it does. So it gets talked about, and this thread has been far more interesting than many on the subject.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Feb 2013, 11:36

Alright folks, we will deal with the aftermath of this skirmish, if any, off the thread through other channels of communication for a few reasons. Thanks.

Back to our topic, referring back to RaviSri's #110, that 1943 decision is interesting. Until then, the choice of the president seemed to have been made on the basis of their ability to lead the scholarly panel on many different topics related to music. Knowledge of music, both practical and theoretical, seem to be important. More over, the people selected to be President seem to be already de facto leaders or have some leadership skills. At least, this person should be someone that other musicians and scholars would respect and listen to what they have to say about music either practical or theoretical. In such a setting, if someone who is considered as President could not make it for whatever reason, some one else who had acted as President can jump in and conduct the proceeding. If this mode had persisted, I have a feeling that quite a few highly talented and popular musicians may not want to be President, since they are not that material.

But with this award of SK over laid on top of this in 1943, that seemed to have changed that vibe and color tremendously. Over time, the qualities needed to conduct the proceedings seemed to have taken a backseat. We see a few remnants of it during the morning lecture demonstrations but these days it is not the SK who conduct those sessions. They just get to speak a few words about what was presented. A big change indeed.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Feb 2013, 12:39

There is, from the musician's point of view, the practical issue of committing that much time, every day, to the MA. Do they get any fee for that? If not, perhaps they might rather be giving concerts! Whilst some factors might make a person unsuitable for the role, there are many who are perfectly happy to perform with their voice or instruments on the stage, but have no wish, or even no ability, for comparing and fulfilling other such roles. I have seen a person, quite used to singing and teaching, suffer great stage fright about speaching. (one might wish that there were more such people

).

As to the self-felt and perceived importance of the Academy and its awards, isn't part of this the fact that it sets itself up as an academic institution as much as a presenter of performers? How many other sabbhas have an "experts committee?" How many run music schools? The latter, a few I suppose.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 27 Feb 2013, 05:06

cmlover wrote:Good caution Srini:
We always assume that a Westerner (or for that matter a easterner) will be objective in their comments, but Ignore the factor of the bias in their sources. The reverse bias operates when we look to local or intimate Sources!

This is very true and applies whether the author is Indian or from the West. Some forumites will remember the controversy about Radha Venkatachalam's thesis.

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 27 Feb 2013, 11:23

For many years the SK award carried a cash component of Rs.10,000/ to be presented on Sadas day to the SK recepient. Now, for the last few years this has been enhanced to one lakh rupees and goes by the name of 'the Sangeeta Kalanidhi M.S.Subbulakshmi award'. This, I feel, is enough reward for the president of the conference to dedicate a full day every day for 13 days to preside over and offer his/her illuminating observations. Apart from this (forget the treatment of Papanasam Sivan) the Academy usually arranges a car to pick up/drop the president of the conference, as also providing them with free tiffin, coffee, meals if necessary at the canteen. If an outstation artiste is elected in a year, like say, Viswa, Doreswamy Iyengar, A.K.C.Natarajan etc., the Academy books a room at the nearby New Woodlands hotel and pays for the expenses.

I remember, in 1988 when Viswa was elected president of that year's conference, the British Airways flew him free from USA to Madras and back and also had a full page advertisement in 'The Hindu' on the last page about this. That was British Airway's first year of their direct flight from London to Madras.

gardabha_gana · Post by **gardabha_gana** » 27 Feb 2013, 12:25

Where is AKC from? I really love his playing.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 27 Feb 2013, 13:20

SIFA:
Sri A.K.C. Natarajan (Clarionet) was born in Tiruchirapalli, Tamil Nadu and started learning Music at the age of 10 from Alathur Sri Venkateswara Iyer. Later he learnt Nadaswaram from Ellupur Natesa Pillai and Clarinet from his father Late Sri A.K. Chinnakrishna Naidu. At the age of 15, he gave his first performance and joined the All India Radio as a staff artist in Calicut & Delhi. Following considerable success, he started giving live performances in India & abroad and received numerous awards. He also holds the distinction of having the post of Thiruvadhuthurai Adeena Vidvan & Dharmapuran Adeena Vidwan. He was also made the Asthana Vidvan of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam. One of the most prestigious awards which he has received is the 'Clarinet Chakravarthi' given by the Maharaja of Mysore, Sri Jayachamaraja Wodeyar at the Dasara Function, and 'The Sangeet Natak Academy Award' in 1995. He was also made an 'Arasavai Kalaignar' by the government of Tamil Nadu.

Awarded SK in 2008.
Beautiful article here: http://www.williamepowell.com/pdfs/Samp ... ecture.pdf

Also some anecdotes in SanjaySub blog.

Listen to this: http://raa.ag/t41200

gardabha_gana · Post by **gardabha_gana** » 27 Feb 2013, 13:45

Thanks RSachi. I was wondering where he lives - probably Tricy area? Sanjay had an excellent article on his blog. I remember his soulful bhairavi in SIFA San Jose -10 years back. I don't see him play that often these days. He played in RSM Bangalore, 3 years back. Of course, he was a frequent visitor to bangalore in my younger days (late 70s/early 80s).

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 27 Feb 2013, 14:12

Yes, for a long time I had believed he was a Bangalorean.
I don't know where he lives now.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Feb 2013, 14:14

Thanks for even more insider (but not insider trading!) knowledge. It does seem that the SK for the year gets decent recompense for the job that goes with the award.

I'm curious about membership of the MA. I suspect that all of the bigger sabhas no longer want members, because, unless life membership is given in exchange for a very fat cheque, ticket sales are probably more useful to their finances than subscription-paying bums on seats. I suspect it is about as hard to get membership of the MA as it must be to get a place at an auto stand outside a five-star hotel, which is probably inherited --- or a political favour. How many members does the MA have? What are their privileges? What does it cost? Do they get free admittance to the concerts?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 27 Feb 2013, 14:39

Akc is residing now in trichy

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 27 Feb 2013, 16:28

You get free sumptuous breakfast on 1st Jan if youa re a member!!!

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 27 Feb 2013, 19:52

AKC has always lived in Trichy.

Nick, the Academy wanting to build its finances started a membership drive way back in the 1930s. I'll crosscheck and post about the details. In the 1970s and 80s the Academy stopped admitting new members. The members of course get to attend the concerts and all programmes sponsored by the Academy for free as also a free, sumptuous breakfast on January 1st every year. It is called the member's day. The members also get to vote the office bearers. They have the privilege to elect the President of the Academy (not the president of the conference), Secretaries, committee members etc. There is this annual meeting of the Academy where the accounts etc., are submitted and the members attend in order to pass the account statement etc. Sumptuous tiffin, lunch etc., follow. You have to know someone in the higher echelons or a politician or a society bigwig to be able to become member. But I heard that they are now slightly liberal in admitting members. You can try your luck. If I want I can join as member now but I am not interested as I don't even visit Madras these days.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 27 Feb 2013, 20:36

RaviSri: Do you know if members receive the Music Academy Journal? Just curious.

I remember, in 1988 when Viswa was elected president of that year's conference, the British Airways flew him free from USA to Madras and back and also had a full page advertisement in 'The Hindu' on the last page about this. That was British Airway's first year of their direct flight from London to Madras

Interestingly, I travelled to Chennai on the second BA flight from London to Chennai. I did not know anything about the significance but saw some extra reception in Chennai with people greeting us as we get off the plane. Later I learned that it is a very new thing.

So, it was MA in conjunction with BA ( as a sponsor ) paid for Viswa's trip? What did BA's advertisement say? Did it invoke MA and Viswa? Sounds like a good thing for BA to associate themselves with culturally significant entities and peope.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Feb 2013, 20:58

So the members elect the executive commitee, President,secretary etc.,democratically and the executive commitee after deliberation selects the SK for the year. Correct me if I am wrong. What is the duration for the President and other office holders? Do the ordinry members have any say on the nominations for SK?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Feb 2013, 21:49

Thank you RaviSri, for yet another insi[dt]e. No, I'm not clamouring to be a member: I don't even spend much time there, although that changed sufficiently this last December to make me think I might go for a season ticket this coming year --- and a week or two in a guest house within walking distance! The latter being for the early concerts, which aren't ticketed anyway.

Somehow they did a good job with Murali --- but, before that, wasn't the MA in rather a poor state of health. I seem to remember there being some possibility that they would not even hold a season. I'm a new boy around here, a very new boy: this would have been around 2004 or 5?

Sounds like a good thing for BA to associate themselves with culturally significant entities and peope.

Air India used to sponsor quite a lot of stuff in London. I think BVB there benefited from their relationship with the company... but I suppose the airline business took quite a knock. When was the last time BA made a profit?

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 27 Feb 2013, 22:26

SK was not awarded & reasons

Reason 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?ao65g0w5n546ehj

Once an anti establishment man , Always an anti establishment man . Irrespective of the merits ofthe view
True of TRS .of SB . of Becket .Of Kapil Dev. And millions of managers who never make it to the top in corporate hierarchy . :devil:

srini_pichumani · Post by **srini_pichumani** » 28 Feb 2013, 06:42

RaviSri wrote:

>> Apart from this the Academy usually arranges a car to pick up/drop the president of the conference,
>> as also providing them with free tiffin, coffee, meals if necessary at the canteen.

Earlier still, when the conference was still held in P.S.High School premises in temporary pandals, after the day's proceedings, Music Academy officials like V.Raghavan used to take them by naDa-rAjA service to Mattala Narayanan Street and buy them pakoda, mixture, sweet, and coffee... "that's all we got !" Viswa Sir mentioned with a twinkle during our conversation.

Turned out that the sweet/savory stall is the same one that belonged to my extended family and had a very strong musical connection (!) because the house it was a part of was the venue for a very popular Tyagaraja Aradhana celebration that has been going on for 60+ years... and predates the current festival in Sangeetha Vidwat Samajam premises in Mylapore. The miTTAi kaDai thus was a very popular one with musicians.

The Tyagarajaswami portrait which is still in that house was a hand me down from the Umayalpuram family and used to be borrowed by the Vidwat Samajam in the early days, I believe. Apart from this, in the very same premises, Papanasam Sivan lived with his family for sometime during his early days in Madras... so also, various musicians like Karaikkudi Sambasiva Iyer stayed there during his initial days before going to Perambur... and Maruttuvakkudi Rajagopala Iyer taught Tyagarajaswami kritis to many famous musicians at these premises. Mali and his father were very popular visitors too, since M.Natarajan (who owned that house -- a granduncle and an uncle of mine) was one of the earliest colleagues/disciples of Mali.

>> (forget the treatment of Papanasam Sivan)

V.Raghavan didn't particularly care for Sivan anyway, so I am not sure if Sivan's remarks irked him !

-Srini.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Feb 2013, 07:25

Srini;
If that T picture is different from the ones we know, could you scan and post here?
Viswa also must have received the 1 lakh that RaviSri cites?

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 28 Feb 2013, 11:29

I don't know about the picture at Maddala Narayana Street but the one at Vidwat Samajam, Mylapore now, is a different kind of picture. Thyagaraja does not cover his head and the picture is dignified.

The Rs. One lakh award was instituted only recently, about 7 or eight years ago, so Viswa must have received only the earlier Rs.10,000.

Nick, the MA faced a lot of problems in the early years of this century mainly because the office bearers didn't want to give way to new, fresh faces and there was no new thinking. There were also allegations of corruption, nepotism etc., allegations which started becoming public. Add to this T.T.Vasu's health began deteriorating. Outsiders began taking an interest in the Academy affairs. Two insiders took the Academy to court over alleged irregularities. The Madras High Court stayed the conduct of all programmes. A stunned Academy hired the best lawyers to ward off this crisis. This I think was in 2004. At the eleventh hour the court granted permission to conduct the annual conference of that year. Vasu died and Murali and a new team took over.

The tenure of the president and other office bearers is three years. Every three years there is an election. K.V.Krishnaswami Iyer reigned for the maximum years, from 1935 to 1966. T.T.Vasu's reign was the second longes , from 1983 to 2005. U.Rama Rao was the first president and after KVK it was T.L.Venkatarama Iyer followed by T.S.Rajam of the TVS group, then K.R.Sundaram Iyer of the Enfield group followed by Vasu.

I don't know whether members receive the journal but they get the souvenir free. That too I don't know about the present. Members were offered a concession of about Rs.300 on the Academy book: 'Four Score and More', the price of which was Rs.1700/.

BA's advertisement said: "British Airways is proud to sponsor the travel from Connecticut to Madras and back of eminent Carnatic music flautist T.Viswanathan . We are proud to be associated with the Music Academy and Sri.T.Viswanathan who is this year's Music Academy conference president." (This is from my memory. May not be exact words but the gist is there.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 28 Feb 2013, 12:58

http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1454069/

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Feb 2013, 13:44

Goodness! That would need a lawyer to read!

Anyway, thank you for contributing source material to the history lessons

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 28 Feb 2013, 19:19

Srini wrote:

V.Raghavan didn't particularly care for Sivan anyway, so I am not sure if Sivan's remarks irked him !

What was Raghavan's objection to Sivan? I have read Subbudu saying that many did not like Sivan's "film" connection...Is that the reason?
If Raghavan did not care, who were the "champions" of "SK for Sivan" that time? Do you know?

Pasupathy

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Feb 2013, 21:10

Terrific PB!
Like Nick I am equally confused with the Legalese...

What is the current membership fee for MA? Are there special NRI rates?
Was SSI an office bearer for a long time or was just a member consultant?

Pasupathy
Film connection would rule out MS as well..and even GNB though there was
strong resentment in the 40's about their Movie connections. Raghavan perhaps
was indifferent since Sivan was never a performer and considered a light-weight.
By the by who gave Sivan the title "Tamil Thyagaraja" ?

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 28 Feb 2013, 21:30

>>By the by who gave Sivan the title "Tamil Thyagaraja" ?
>>cmlover

As I remember it was one Simizhi Sundaram Iyer.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Feb 2013, 21:45

I doubt
Simizhi Sundaram Iyer (1884–1927). Appears too early for such recognition!

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 01 Mar 2013, 00:31

>>The title ‘Tamil Tyagayya’ was conferred on him by the great Simizhi Sundaram Iyer, when he heard Sivan singing the song ‘Unnai Thudikka >>Arulthaa’ in Kuntalavarali raga during the Tyagaraja Ratotsavam at Tiruvarur.

From:
http://www.swathithirunal.in/articles/bhagyalakshmi.htm

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2013, 01:09

Thx.
Interestingly this is not documented in the other web bios of P Sivan!
I wonder where Bhagyalakshmi got this info from?

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 01 Mar 2013, 03:50

I have read it in other documents; that's why I remembered it. If I recall, will let you know.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 01 Mar 2013, 04:43

cmlover wrote:
"What is the current membership fee for MA? Are there special NRI rates?"
When I was doing research at the MA library last December, I had to become a member of the MA to gain access to the books. It is Rs.400 per year (with 2 photo IDs). I think there is also a lifetime membership available. NO idea if tere is a special rate for NRIs.

MaamiAtHeart · Post by **MaamiAtHeart** » 01 Mar 2013, 05:46

400 per year is a steal! (finding 2 photo ids is a lot harder!!) So you dont need connections anymore?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2013, 06:05

How many members do they have currrent?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 01 Mar 2013, 08:44

Surely the Rs400 doesn't give you free entry to any concerts though

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Mar 2013, 10:44

With season seasons costing thousands, it would seem unlikely.

What does it take to be a "patron?" Very considerably more, I should think. They get to wander in and out of the front rows, I think...

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 01 Mar 2013, 11:03

Folks: Got in late for the MA-Bashing Party!! Better late than never!!

Confessions:

1. I am a member--thanks to my late father's "pull" with the Academy--I do not consider it any badge of honor-- I recall paying Rs. 5000 or so more than fifteen years back. Since then I get to attend the season concerts(which I seldom do and my family members residing in Chennai and my nephew from Singapore get to attend. I get the souvenir free and when I am in Chennai for the season I may miss many of the concerts at the MA but NEVER the Jan 1 FREE Breakfast which I am told is not so hot these days!!
2. During my college days(Presidency/Engng College Karaikudi)--circa 1954thru 1960 I was a regular at the season-How did I manage as a student to enter the hallowed halls of MA? Again I have to thank my late father who was Secretary of Shanmukhananda Sabha (SS) in Bombay--SS had an affiliation as an institution to MA for a nominal fee for which they get one ticket--there were not many takers from Bombay for the season in those days so that I got to avail myself of the privilege. Those years when an official of SS came for the season, I played the "Gooja Boy or flask(if you will)" for the leading musicians who used to "sneak" me in on some pretext or other. I will spend the 10 days from 8 A.M. to the night performance shuttling between MA hall and mandaveli where I lived,for my meals,coffee!!. Could not afford to eat in hotels being a student!!! This way I got to see plenty of the internal intrigues/machinations going on within the MA--plus some of the key office bearers' sons were good friends of mine so that I would be privy to stories--no doubt selective and biased about their own fathers-officebearers.(Most of RaviSri's comments are accurate and corroborate my own observations of those years . At this point it is only fair to narrate an anecdote that redounds to the credit of some of the principled office-bearers of MA.(this story was told to me my late father and has since been corroborated by persons with knowledge of the incident).

I do not recall the year-- -the selection of SK was being discussed--Dr.V Raghavan was Secretary along with C.K.Venkatanarasimhan and K.Soundararajan)--amongst the experts committee a suggestion was made to make Dr V the SK--although he was not a performer(nor was TV Subba Rao or Sambamurthy who had been given the SK earlier ) ---because of his immense contributions to the MA archives(he was instrumental in introducing Hindusthani Music--geting Pt.Ravi Shankar,Ali Akbar Khan, Ratan Jankar et al to participate in the season---mostly the 9 P.M slots--he was also instrumental in discovering Uthukadu's compositions first introduced to MA thro Needamangalam Krishnamurthy Bhagavathar.). Suffice it to say except for the fact that he was not a performer he had other impressive credentials and there was unanimous agreement to make him the SK EXCEPT for a LONE dissenter--Prof. K.Chandrasekharan(KC) (prof of English@ the Govt Arts College in Chennai)--- one of the elites of Mylapore and S/O of V.Krishnaswamy Iyer a noted Advocate held in very high esteem by the British regime in the late Nineteenth century--he argued powerfully that it would serve as a bad precedent and the MA ought not to deviate from its principal criteria that SK-designates should be performers. SO WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT THE DISSENTER? He and Dr.VR were close family friends for over 4 decades and opposition from him(KC) was least expected--needless to say DR VR was shocked but KC prevailed and that's how MA got some credit for not letting brazen cronysm dictate the selection. I am told that Dr.V was disappointed although in fairness he did not canvas for the title.

3. Regards several points made by RaviSri and others regarding SSI's influence on the selection process,--after 1968 when all the stalwarts of his era had passed away SSI's stature loomed large and as he had settled in Chennai it was easier for MA officebearers to solicit his opinions and he did manage to get SK's for people like K.S.Naraynaswamy(veena) who had served with him at the Academy in Trivandrum,Santhanam and his own disciples TMT and TNK(there is a story of inner-court intrigues/machiavellian maneouvres in the TMK-TNK saga.)--his intrusions in the process gained him lot of illwill.
SSI had initiated TMT's induction to the SK hall of fame--by virtue of the fact that he was his disciple,he was a good teacher,excellent tunesmith and had excellent credentials being relatively senior to other aspirants at that time(including TNK)--this had gathered momentum and was about to be a fait accompli when TNK's sycophants(probably tacitly encouraged by TNK himself) mounted a full-court press to get TNK elected(although TMT was atleast 5 years senior to TNK and added to it --there was some illwill between the two when both were under the tutelage of SSI in trivandrum. TMT got wind of it but the proud and principled man that he was(to this day amongst living musicians there is unanimity about TMT's integrity) he steadfastly refused to let his sycophants--although not so powerful -mount a counteroffensive--all along hoping that SSI--his Guru would play fair and not favor one sishya over the other especially when one of them was senior(seniority in age for the most part was observed). Absent the counteroffensive TNK prevailed--SSI not being able to stem the tide and wishing to salvage the situation--I am told insisted that TMT be made SK the following year and got the assurance from the MA authorities.That is the reason why you would find sishyas of the same Guru being honored in successive years--never in the annals of MA would you find this anomaly!!). SSI personally went to TMT and made sure he was mollified and not reject the formal offer the following year. TMT the principled man-- although did not care much for the belated recognition did not want to embarass his Guru. Such a graceful man he was (TMT) he never sought to use the media or other musician friends to present his side of the story--a story of betrayal by people who should have known better,(I must confess--TNK admirers must pardon me for this opinion- I am an admirer of TNK too-- SSI was a little "miffed" in his later years(although he would not comment even within earshot--) that in his (TNK)various media interviews and public speeches(including The Hindu),SSI was conspicuosly omitted(ARI/Chembai/GNB/MMI were all mentioned in one form or other)--as is well known SSI was a champion/patron of TNK in his early years--much to the discomfiture of senior violinists of that time--Rajamanikkam Pilai,Papa Sir and Chowdiah who all used to "needle" SSI for "allegedly" neglecting them even though they were all in their prime.
POINT of this digression is that SSI's interventions at the MA in his later years had brought him lots of grief
--which my father used to advise him to stay away from the politics and SSI used to admit that his efforts may have ended like the Tamil proverb "Pillayar pidikka Poi Kurangaha mudindadhu(trying to sculpt a ganesha idol ended up sculpting a monkey!!).

Another incident involving SSI and the MA where again he was caught in between two close family friends vying for the MA's Presidency--TT Vasu vs. the KRS family(who was treasurer of MA for a long time)--both were close to SSI--SSI has sung in every one of the weddings/other auspicious/occasions for the two families.In one year they contested against each other(it may have been one of KRS's sons). SSI tried to have Vasu back off saying in Tamil "Avargal Veettu Uppai thinravan"( and that I owe them my support--it was one of those Mahabharata situations with SSI playing Lord krishna and the two combatants--close to each other--KRS and TTK were friends when TTK was minister(TTK was TT vasu's father) and they have played cards together whenever TTK visited Chennai). To the remark by SSI regarding his obligations to the KRS family the acid-tongued,irreverent TT Vasu seems to have retorted--Did my father feed you poison when he hosted you in Delhi--TTK was Minister in the central Govt and both parties got SSI to stay neutral and Vasu prevailed!!

As regards a comment on T.Viswa, one of the forumites had commented that the comment was a n insult to N.Ramani--I do not place much credence on this because Ramani and T Viswa were very good friends, and both are "poster-boys" noted for their reticence and grace--everytime when Viswa was in Wesleyan and Ramani visited the US Viswa would arrange a concert in Wesleyan and coax his students to attend the concert.

Finally regarding the MA affairs during the time I had close opportunities to watch,the admin namely the three Secretaries--all of them noted personalities on their own--seldom intefered in the SK deliberation process that went on amongst the Experts Committee and if some anomalies occurred as there were many,the Experts Committee(of which Mudicondan--although not a very regular concert performer throughout his career-- exerted considerable influence. The belated recognition of Papanasam Sivan(nee Polagam Ramaswami) may also have been caused by some jealousies amongst senior musicians like ARI --- who although a contemporary--both were born in 1890 and both were in the Thyagaraja Sishya parampara--Sivan was an unabashed admirer of Konerirajapuram Vaidyanatha Iyer who was a contemporary of Poochi Iyengar--ARI's guru and some professional jealousies as to who are the true torch bearers of the Thyagaraja tradition.
Sorry folks this 'yarn' has turned out to be longer than I had intended!!