mELa ragas

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Sep 2006, 00:51

Songs in ratnAngi:

Atma paripurna ?
Bhavani shankari shive pahimam ambike-Rupaka-R.K.Suryanarayana
Chintayami ratnangim-Adi-C.Rangiah
Innam vairam unra nenjile iruppadenna-Adi-Marimutta Pillai
Janani ashrutapalini jagajjiva ratnangi-Rupaka-Muttiah Bhagavatar
Kalasha vardhijam satatam bhaje kamala lochanam-Adi-Tyagaraja
Nimmatiyana nenjinile nidam ninaiye-Adi-Shuddhananda Bharati
Pahi pahi parameshvari amba parama-Adi-Cuddalore Subramaniam
Pammip-padarnda pazham tamizh nilamishai-Adi-Tamizhnambi
Rajavattam sagara kantha chakra (lkg)-Matya-Venkatamakhi
Ratnangim-Adi-Bangalore S.Mukund
Ravana kumbbhakaranadi (lng)-Triputa-Govindacharya
Saduvula jeraka sadgati galguna sarasa-Adi-Pallavi Shesha Iyer
Shakti shivan maindan sannidhi tozha vendum sada avan-Adi-D.Pattammal
Shaktihastam vinayakam bhaje shambhu putram-Adi-Ashok R.Madhav
Shri dakshinamurtim isham chitprakasham pranaumi-Adi-Dikshitar
Shri gurum chintayamyaham satatam-Rupaka-Balamuralikrishna
Shri rajeshvari-C/Rupakam-Dokka Sriramamurti
Tarunam ide dayanidhe aru sheyvai adiyen-Adi-Kotishvara Iyer

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:10

Arun where are you?

Giving here some relevant interesting lines from C.Rangiah's kRti in ratnAngi, Adi tALa

cintayAmi ratnAngIm |
cintitArthadAm sadAnandAm ||P||

SAntarasa Suddha ShaShTha suswarAm |
antima kaiSikI niShAda samPurNAm ||AP||

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:12

There are audio clips of scales for many rAgAs including mELakartA rAgAs here:

http://www.geocities.com/vasudevanvrv/c ... aagams.htm

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:19

Lakshman,
Do you have notations for the BMK's comp.? would like to have a look
Thanks

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:29

drshrikaanth wrote:Giving here some relevant interesting lines from C.Rangiah's kRti in ratnAngi, Adi tALa

cintayAmi ratnAngIm |
cintitArthadAm sadAnandAm ||P||

SAntarasa Suddha ShaShTha suswarAm |
antima kaiSikI niShAda samPurNAm ||AP||

Are all of Sri Rangaiah's compositions in mEla rAgas on the rAga dEvate? Or is it just a few of those?

It looks like a nice amalgamation if kriti and a lakshaNa gIte..

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:32

No not all of them.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:36

drshrikaanth wrote:
ramakriya wrote:How about creating some audio examples ourselves, for mElas with very few examples? I am sure that there are many on this forum who could sing/play from reading notations
Good idea. If you can get people to sing

I will try to do my bit when we reach some mELas, where I can sing somthing

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:40

ramakriya wrote:By looking at my very limited listening of ratnAngi, (a grand total of 2 renditions , it looks like it offers limited scope for elaboration - at least more limited than its neighbouring mELas on either sides ( kanakAngi and gAnamUrti). Tyagaraja in this rAga.

No. rAtnAngi is innately more melodic than kanakAngi as it has one less of a vivAdi swara. N2 is also innately melodic swara.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Sep 2006, 02:17

Suji ram: I have notations for all of BMK's songs. Which one would you like?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 22 Sep 2006, 02:19

Lakshman wrote:Suji ram: I have notations for all of BMK's songs. Which one would you like?

For now Kanakangi and Ratnangi discussed

If you have it in telugu its fine too
Thanks

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Sep 2006, 03:25

They are in tamil. I can scan them and send but cannot post.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 22 Sep 2006, 03:29

Lakshman wrote:They are in tamil. I can scan them and send but cannot post.

No Problem, pl send to sujiram_29@yahoo.com

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Sep 2006, 03:46

Done.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 22 Sep 2006, 04:14

Thanks Lakshman

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Sep 2006, 04:31

Arun where are you?

I am out of town and they are working me too hard

. I will see if i can post something later today.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Sep 2006, 03:48

Here are the notes on ratnangi and the asampUrNa mEla phEnadyuti I made a few days ago. Please elaborate/correct/refute as appropriate:

* There is a gItam in phEnadyuti by muddu vEnkaTamakhin in matyA tAlam that is notated in SSP. It is interesting to note that subbarAma dIkshitar explicitly mentions that he couldnt appreciate this gItam as it as swara sancharas capable of producing ranjakatvam (what does this term mean? "vivadi"

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 23 Sep 2006, 05:07

[quote="arunk"]* There is a gItam in phEnadyuti by muddu vEnkaTamakhin in matyA tAlam that is notated in SSP. It is interesting to note that subbarAma dIkshitar explicitly mentions that he couldnt appreciate this gItam as it as swara sancharas capable of producing ranjakatvam (what does this term mean? "vivadi"

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Sep 2006, 07:14

The scale of phEnadyuti as given in the SSP is

SR1M1PD1D1PN2N2S* | S*NDDPMG1G1RS ||

Simplified version will be

SRMPN,S* | S*ND,PMG,RS ||

As D, N and G are jaNTi swaras, they are the jIvaswaras as well. This rAga provides ample scope for melody. Just as an aide-de-memoire, the ArOhaNa is the same as rEvati (Which is a janya of this mELa). Also PNNS is reminiscent of dhanyAsi.

* Just peripherally looking at the SSP notation difference between the phEnadyuti krithi and the kanakAmbari krithi points to some key differences. Kanakangi is more flat with not as much gamakas as in phEnAdyuti. I think the dhIrgha N1 and G1 dominate kanakAngi.

dIrgha or reduplicated G is seen in ratnAngi as well.

But in ratnAngi you have the M P D N S R "area"

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 23 Sep 2006, 08:01

Hi All,
Can we discuss some janya (rare ones)while considering the melas?I think this song is a janya of Ratnangi-
http://as01.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=179513
(seems to be dhaivatha varjya).Whats the name of the raga?The vivadhi is seen here,isnt?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:10

2 kannaDa move songs based on phEnadyuti/ ratnAngi mELa. They seem closer to phEnadyuti than to ratnAngi. Of course as is the wont with film songs, there are foreign notes.

A melodious and very nice song from the blockbuster "SShh"

http://www.kannadaaudio.com/Songs/Movie ... analli.ram

Another song from the movie "maTha"(2006) (Melody is not prominent but the swaras are unmistakable).

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/krK ... As1NMvHdW/

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 23 Sep 2006, 18:05

http://as01.coolgoose.com/music/song.php?id=179513
(seems to be dhaivatha varjya).Whats the name of the raga?The vivadhi is seen

ghaNTA or ghaNTArava uses SRGMPNS/SNDPMGRS as the scale.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Sep 2006, 18:13

Lakshman wrote:ghaNTA or ghaNTArava uses SRGMPNS/SNDPMGRS as the scale.

The ghaNTa in vogue is a different rAga. There is a rAga "indu ghaNTArava" (Also having name of ghaNTArava) which is a janya o phEnadyuti. Its scale is

SR1SG1M1PN2S* | S*ND1PMGRS ||

There is another janya of this mELa with the name ghaNTa. It is a niShAgANtya rAga sung in madhyama Sruti. It is very much like ratnAngi in madhyama Sruti.

What kartik has posted is a film song, not a kRti. I dont think we have to worry about finding a name for the rAga. Suffice to say it is based on the 2nd mELa.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Sep 2006, 20:26

does anybody have any recordings of the MD krithi in phEnadyuti?

If not, have we run out of gas on mELA #2 so that we can move on to next

?

But before we move on, i want to ping you once again: What do people think of the similarity to tODi in S.Rajam's rendition of kOTIswara Iyer composition vs. no such thing in BMK's. Also did you notice that there is no asAveri feel with this rAga unlike kanakAmbari inspite of having a structure which perhaps should/could give that feel? Isnt that interesting and say a lot about how magical a melody based system like CM is?

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 26 Sep 2006, 21:23

arunk wrote:does anybody have any recordings of the MD krithi in phEnadyuti?

If not, have we run out of gas on mELA #2 so that we can move on to next ?

But before we move on, i want to ping you once again: What do people think of the similarity to tODi in S.Rajam's rendition of kOTIswara Iyer composition vs. no such thing in BMK's. Also did you notice that there is no asAveri feel with this rAga unlike kanakAmbari inspite of having a structure which perhaps should/could give that feel? Isnt that interesting and say a lot about how magical a melody based system like CM is?

Arun

I am not able to get on to the musicalnirvana site - to listen to the ratnangi kriti by S Rajam.
Can anyone give the right link.

Sometime mid-October, a violin duet by Sri H K Narasimhamurthy and H N Bhaskar is planned here in SF Bay area. The highlight of the concert will be a RTP in ratnAngi

I will post the concert date once it is certian.

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Sep 2006, 21:34

ramakriya wrote:I am not able to get on to the musicalnirvana site - to listen to the ratnangi kriti by S Rajam

I noticed that now too. Well that sucks! Does anybody else have this rendition we could listen? But is that a commercial rendition (seems like a good possibility)?

Arun

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 26 Sep 2006, 23:38

Try this link:
http://www.musicalnirvana.com/script/mu ... st=S+Rajam

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 27 Sep 2006, 00:05

lakshman,

it didnt work for me. I think the entire website is down.

Arun

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 27 Sep 2006, 00:08

The linked worked for me. Thanks lakshman

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 27 Sep 2006, 00:23

Suji Ram wrote:The linked worked for me. Thanks lakshman

Hmm. I cant even ping www.musicalnirvana.com (times out). And this is from 2 computers from which I could reach the website and listen to the samples, last week. Dont know what happened.

Arun

meena · Post by **meena** » 27 Sep 2006, 01:02

maybe the server is busy.

DrMrinalini · Post by **DrMrinalini** » 27 Sep 2006, 20:43

About the similarity of Ratnangi with Todi, well you get a slight whiff of some common sancharas bw the 2 in the anupallavi of 'taruNamiDe dayAnidhe'(KotIs'wara Iyer's kirtana-btw I have the cassettes), but the distinctiveness of Ratnangi stands out yet in the characteristic flattened 'Ga' usage, while the Todi 'Gi' is something complex & reflects a myriad colours of the raga by virtue of its gamaka-laden texture.

DrMrinalini · Post by **DrMrinalini** » 27 Sep 2006, 20:52

Also to just return for a minute to the meanings of the raga names-you have it clearly described in Maha Vaidyanatha S'ivan's 72-melaragamalika:
'KanakAngya ramayA poojitha sanakAdipriya kripAlaya'
Meaning : Oh Merciful One ! (Lord Shiva/PraNathArthihara) Who is worshipped by None less than Devi RamA/KanakAngi (MahAlakshmi-the Golden-Hued One), Sanaka,sanandana,sanatkumara etc

'RatnAngya Dharmasamvardhanya ramaNa mAm paripAlaya'
meaning: Oh Divine Consort of the bejewelled Dharmasamvardhani! protect me!

Quite apt that this raga name meaning should be discussed during Navaratri-KanakAngi means Mahalakshmi & RatnAngi refers to Parvati.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 27 Sep 2006, 21:26

With musicalnirvana site being dead, I wonder if there would be any more ratnAngi/phEnadyuti postings..

BTW. did anyone practice my last assignment? Singing the kriti in phEnadyuti from SSP notation, that is ?

Folks! If I had the capability I would have done it. Go for it

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 12:08

ramakriya wrote:With musicalnirvana site being dead, I wonder if there would be any more ratnAngi/phEnadyuti postings..

-Ramakriya

Moving on to the 3rd mELa;

In saMpUrna scheme, the 3rd mELa is gAnamUrti

S R1 G1 M1 P D1 N3 S
S N3 D1 P M1 G1 R S

Thyagaraja's kriti in this rAga, gAnamUrtE is very well known, and popular, even though some scholars have expressed doubts about it's authenticity (just like the kritis in kanakANgi and ratnAngi).

This rAga gives good scope for elaboration; I feel it gives rise to both bhakti and adbhuta rasa at the same time.

There are a number of commercial recordings of this kriti.

One excellent recording I can recommend is a veena-venu-violin of LGJ,Ramani and Venkataram. It is simply superb. I do not know if it available on the net.

The 3rd mELa in asampUrNa scheme is called sAmavarALi, which is also called gANasAmavarALi for fitting to katapayAdi scheme.

Ramamatya has the following shlOka for description of sAmavarALi.

shuddhAH sarigamAshcAtha shuddhau paMcamadhaivatau |
niShAdaH kAkalIsaMGYO hyeteH saptasvarairyutaH ||
melaH sAmavarAlyAkhya stasmin sAmavarAlikA |
anyeca sambhaviShyaMti rAgA iti vidAm matam ||

Thanks to www.guruguha.org

Translated -> The mELa sAmavarAli has 7 swaras - shuddha sa,ri, ga, ma,pa,da and kAkali nishAda.

So the rAga has been in existence with the same lakshaNa from at least 1550 AD ; IIRC, the rAga has been mentioned in texts much older than swaramELakalAnidhi.

Muttuswami Dikshitar has continued the trend of skipping the shuddha nishAda in the Aroha -and has composed a kriti in sAmavarALi with the mUrchane - S R M P D N S - S N D P M G R S.

-Ramakriya

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 29 Sep 2006, 13:18

I recently heard Muttuswami Dikshitar krithi brahadIshvaro rakshatu mAm in gANasAmavarALi ,sung by TV Ramprasadh

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 29 Sep 2006, 15:04

Here is the recording (from Shivkumar kalyanaraman's archives page) of Susarla Sivaram singing Brihadeeswaro in Gaanasaamavarali
http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivk ... hithar.mp3

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 29 Sep 2006, 20:13

Some corrections:

ramakriya wrote:S R1 G1 M1 P D1 N1 S
S N3 D1 P M1 G1 R S
...
Muttuswami Dikshitar has continued the trend of skipping the shuddha nishAda in the Aroha

It should P D1 N3 S. Also shuddha nishAda => shuddha gAndhAra.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 29 Sep 2006, 20:27

My observations:
regarding gAnamUrti as in gAnamUrtE: When compared to kanakAngi and ratnAngi, to me somehow seems to G1 plays a relatively more "prominent" role establishing the rasa of the raga. Do others see that? This along with M1 and P seems important swaras (in both gAnamUrti and ganasamavarali).

In the rendition of MD krithi (very nice! thanks kiransurya for hunting it down!), the S-M combination seems to be highlighted very nicely (pallavi as well as of course as the pivot for swaras). BTW, what does "sahaja" as in "sahajagAna" (samavarALi) mean? Am I mistaken that tiSra gati is employed in the ciTTaswara part of that MD krithi rendition?

Also, just like the other 2 mELas the slide down from M to G1 is here too.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Sep 2006, 20:31

arunk wrote:My observations:
regarding gAnamUrti as in gAnamUrtE: When compared to kanakAngi and ratnAngi, to me somehow seems to G1 plays a relatively more "prominent" role establishing the rasa of the raga. Do others see that?

The kRti starts on G itself (swarAkShara) and this immediately throws G1 into prominence. There is quite a strong play on G1 as swarAkShara. Perhaps this could be one reason to doubt if it really is tyAgarAja's.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:10

arunk wrote:Some corrections:
ramakriya wrote:S R1 G1 M1 P D1 N1 S
S N3 D1 P M1 G1 R S
...
Muttuswami Dikshitar has continued the trend of skipping the shuddha nishAda in the Aroha
It should P D1 N3 S. Also shuddha nishAda => shuddha gAndhAra.

Arun

Thanks Arun for the corrections! Effects of staying up late :rolleyes:

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:15

drshrikaanth wrote:
arunk wrote:My observations:
regarding gAnamUrti as in gAnamUrtE: When compared to kanakAngi and ratnAngi, to me somehow seems to G1 plays a relatively more "prominent" role establishing the rasa of the raga. Do others see that?
The kRti starts on G itself (swarAkShara) and this immediately throws G1 into prominence. There is quite a strong play on G1 as swarAkShara. Perhaps this could be one reason to doubt if it really is tyAgarAja's.

I think that is one of the reasons. Other is that it was in the repertoire of only one line of shishyas.

Added to that, the rAgamudre; Tyagaraja has very rarely used rAgamudre in his kritis.
(even kritis where he could have used it very easily and appropriately); Does that could be
a reason for the doubt?

Just as an aside, I can recall only these tyagarAja kritis with rAgamudre.

gAnamUrtE - doubtful authenticity
sarasIruhanayanE - (amrtavarShiNi) - doubtful authenticity
mOhana rAma

Are there any others?

-Ramakriya

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:19

sarasIruhanayanE - (amrtavarShiNi) - doubtful authenticity

I thought that the above krithi was composed by thiruvotriyur(???) thyagayya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:22

arunk wrote:BTW, what does "sahaja" as in "sahajagAna" (samavarALi) mean? Arun

sahaja means natural, genuine, true etc.

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:30

kiransurya wrote:
sarasIruhanayanE - (amrtavarShiNi) - doubtful authenticity
I thought that the above krithi was composed by thiruvotriyur(???) thyagayya

It has tyAgarAja mudre. I am not aware if it is listed as tiruvottriyur tyagayya's in references.
Did he use the same mudre too?

But, I have seen the gaMbhIravANi kriti, sadA madini - listed as tiruvottriyur tyagayyas, inspite of having tyagarAja mudre - and also heard it annouced as such in AIR; IIRC, it was Ravikiran who was playing that day.

If we have more replies on this(authenticity issue), I request the moderators to move it to a new thread:) to keep the focus of this thread.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:58

tiruvoTRiyUr tyAgayya has generally used the mudre "vENugOpAla" which he shares with his father vINe kuppayyar. As the "pallavi swarakalpavalli" clearly lists the composer for each composition, there is no confusion between the two.

Having said that, tyAgyya has on the odd occasion used the mudre tyAgESa and tyAgarAja also. I have seen this in his varNas. I dont remember seeing this in his kRtis. It is possible though. This amRtavarShiNi kRti however seems to have only been "discovered" recently. God knows who the composer is.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 22:19

drshrikaanth wrote:This amRtavarShiNi kRti however seems to have only been "discovered" recently. God knows who the composer is.

Just to put the record straight, "recently" here is at least 2-3 decades.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Sep 2006, 22:21

What is the basis for saying 2-3 decades?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Sep 2006, 22:24

For a list of other prakShipta or spurious kRtis, see here

http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/prakshipta.html

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 29 Sep 2006, 22:30

drshrikaanth wrote:What is the basis for saying 2-3 decades?

Because I have heard it sung in a concert at least 2+ decades ago

-Ramakriya

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 30 Sep 2006, 16:52

Here is an expert Ganamurthi-
http://www.savefile.com/files/120287
Great magic starting 5:45