mELa ragas

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 12 Sep 2006, 19:50

Can we start a discussion on mELa ragas and their specialities, and how various songs in them do justice to these ragas?

Anyone familiar with songs in Kanakangi, please start... I dont know much, hence this request.

We'll follow the sampoorna mELa order... starting with kanakAngi i.e kanakAmbari.

DrMrinalini · Post by **DrMrinalini** » 12 Sep 2006, 20:23

S Ra Ga Ma P Da Na S
S Na Da P Ma Ga Ra S

The first mela rAga -it is S'uddha wrt. R,G,M,D & N.

Starting with an invocation to Lord Ganesha we have 'Sree GaNanAtham bhajAmyaham' in KanakAngi of doubtful authorship which bears a mudra of 'Tyagaraja'.

Others I'm aware of:
KanakAngaka of KotIs'wara Iyer
KanakAmbari of Dikshitar (Asampoorna mela paddhathi).
There are many more (Lakshmanji's list awaited!)

Generally a plaintive melody, laden with much feeling & bhakthi.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Sep 2006, 21:39

Dr BMK has one kriti on Ganapati too - IshaputrAya namOstutE in kanakAngi. IIRC, in BMK's rAgAnga ravaLi ( kritis in mELakartas) only 2 are on Ganesha; The other being vAraNa vadanam in rAga sALaga, first mELa in prati madhyama rAgas.

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 13 Sep 2006, 01:48

It would be benificial if we have audio clips in this thread, particularly for those mELas that are not very well known.

-Ramakriya

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 13 Sep 2006, 20:58

Since kanakAngi is a very rare and beautiful rAga , one of the best way to recollect the rAga is by hearing mOgam Ennum Theeyil enmanam sung by KJ. YesudAs from the movie Sindhubhairavi (music composed by illayAraja).

Also I would suggest you to buy a exclusive commercial cd by MS Subhalakshmi where she sings the 72 mElaraagamaalika (praNathaarthihara prabO) composed by Mahaa Vaidyanaatha Sivan .

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:51

Here is another film song (partly) in kanakAngi, sung by Dr BMK

dEvara hoseda prEmada dAra

http://www.kannadaaudio.com/Songs/Movie ... aHaara.php

It is a rAgamAlike using appropriate rAgas for the description of three seasons

charana 1 - summer - kanakAngi
charana 2 - rainy - amritavarshiNi
charana 3 - spring - vasanta

-Ramakriya

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 14 Sep 2006, 02:34

The dubious kanakAngi kriti of sadguru tyAgarajar was sung by SRI K J Yesudas on January 10, 1989 in the Senate Hall of Trivandrum, Kerala State. According to the website, http://www.asianclassicalmp3.org/Yesudass.htm, this recording has been dropped from the Tharangini catalog. The website also offers free download of this song with a couple of others - nagumomu and janani pAhi sadA. All of them are worth listening.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Sep 2006, 02:41

I have listened to this song "Sri Gananadham Bhajamyaham" where he (KJY) mentions that the authorship of the Kriti is disputed.

I wonder if someone else has sung this kriti?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Sep 2006, 02:47

There is a movie version of srI gaNanAtham in kanakAngi by Vani Jayaram IIRC. This is from one of K Viswanath's movies ( Sruti layalu ? Sirivennala)?

Telugu movie buffs may be able to provide an audio link

-Ramakriya

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 14 Sep 2006, 04:54

You can find it here:

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/27/s/movie_name.6561/

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Sep 2006, 05:05

I wasb't way off when I said Vani Jayaram

BTW, is Purnachandar who has sung this song with Vani, same as the violist who has accompanied BMK on many albums?

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Sep 2006, 10:00

Here is a link to BMK's kriti in Kanakangi, sung by who else? Sri BMK. Hosted on sangeethapriya.org

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/%7Enanda/ ... 1indu.html

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Sep 2006, 21:18

(thanks ramakriya)
A very haunting raga. In the alapana, it seemed to me that the vivAdi swaras werent as prominent as in the krithi. In the krithi, the caressing slides down from s to ni, and ma to ga, and rests on them gives that haunting feeling. Total Serenity is another word which comes to mind regarding the mood set by this BMK rendiition (and i guess the raga). I am guessing it can have a good calming effect on people (:-)

Question: is kanakangi intended to rendered mostly flat with minimal gamakas? I guess the structure dictates that mostly. I wonder if in any N1 ragas, N1 is/can-be handled like D2 in ragas like abhOgi. aTANA, mOhanam(i.e. with d2-s combo)? May be not appropriate - as in those the usage of d2 may include n2/n3 as "implicit" anuswaras - just a wild uneducated guess? Maybe this drawn-out slow slide (or flat) is way n1 should be handled?

Also, lakshman/drs: if you have ready access, can you please provide some info on what SSP says about kanakambari in terms of lakshana?

Thanks
Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Sep 2006, 21:28

Also, lakshman/drs: if you have ready access, can you please provide some info on what SSP says about kanakambari in terms of lakshana?

Never mind. Can access it here: http://www.ibiblio.org/guruguha/sspone_click.pdf

Notably, it says the dhIrga (elongated) niShAda and gandAtram S N D and M G R, Ni and ga should be in jAru (slide). Also, mentioned in older times ragas with S R1 G1 M skipped G1 in arOhana and was done so to make it easier in singing. I guess the r m, along with slow slide from m to g1, and then r1 s would make it sort of similar to asAveri and thus the asAveri jAti connection?

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Sep 2006, 21:40

arunk wrote:Also, mentioned in older times ragas with S R1 G1 M skipped G1 in arOhana and was done so to make it easier in singing. I guess the r m, along with slow slide from m to g1, and then r1 s would make it sort of similar to asAveri and thus the asAveri jAti connection?

Arun

IIRC, all asampoorNa mELas with G1, (and sometimes N1 too) to skip this swara, and include only in the avarOhana krama, many times with vakra sancAra to minimize the vivAdi effect.

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Sep 2006, 21:47

ramakriya,

True for varALi too - perhaps the oldest of the lot?

Atleast in kanakangi, i wonder if this (no ga going up) is one the reasons atleast that allows for more room for gamakas on ri (as in BMK's rendition particularly in kalpana swaras - ri elongated with nice slight kampita). Doing such a thing as in: s r~~~~ ma vs. s r~~~ g ma "feels" just about the same. Perhaps since the r~~~~ seems to implicitly include g1 anyway. Maybe that is one reason why people in olden times perhaps deemed it spurious in ArOhanA (:-).

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Sep 2006, 00:13

arunk wrote:Question: is kanakangi intended to rendered mostly flat with minimal gamakas? I guess the structure dictates that mostly.

Arun

I think, this depends. If you listened to the filmi rendition of Sri GananAtham, you can see it does not show up as very flat, IMO.

arunk wrote:I wonder if in any N1 ragas, N1 is/can-be handled like D2 in ragas like abhOgi. aTANA, mOhanam(i.e. with d2-s combo)? May be not appropriate - as in those the usage of d2 may include n2/n3 as "implicit" anuswaras - just a wild uneducated guess? Maybe this drawn-out slow slide (or flat) is way n1 should be handled?

Arun

I remember noticing such a treatment this in few kritis of BMK with N1, in rAgas like shAmalAngi. dhavaLAmbari etc, and in SRJ's lec dem on gamakas where he elaborates dhavalAmbari/dhavaLAnga.

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Sep 2006, 00:46

I think, this depends. If you listened to the filmi rendition of Sri GananAtham, you can see it does not show up as very flat, IMO.

That version is definitely peppier. A good alternate feel of the raga.

Also, may be i am hearing this wrong, but I notice that the handling of G1 with gamaka by Vani Jayaram (compared to Poornachandra Rao) is different - giving it a more asAveri touch. It seems to me as if it is made to span more of the interval between g1 (or may be even r1) and m1, and thus like g2 in asAveri (or toDI). In the KS portions, i think only Vani Jayaram does this, poornachandra Rao's response is a flat(ter) G1. May be all this adds up to our impression. I notide the kampita on r1 is here too - i think that is not uncommon for ragas with r1.

BTW, check out http://www.geocities.com/gnanarnava/audiobooks.html. It has a brief sample of MD's krithi by TMK - faithfully following the notation given in SSP. BTW, this is part of a project (And i got to this site from G. Ravi Kiran's website). Even though the sample is a brief one, the mood (and handling of G1/N1 etc.) here is closer to that of BMK's krithi - very sedate (sort of expected given it is a krithi by MD).

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Sep 2006, 01:54

arunk wrote:Also, may be i am hearing this wrong, but I notice that the handling of G1 with gamaka by Vani Jayaram (compared to Poornachandra Rao) is different - giving it a more asAveri touch.

It seems to me as if it is made to span more of the interval between g1 (or may be even r1) and m1, and thus like g2 in asAveri (or toDI). In the KS portions, i think only Vani Jayaram does this, poornachandra Rao's response is a flat(ter) G1. May be all this adds up to our impression. I notide the kampita on r1 is here too - i think that is not uncommon for ragas with r1.

Arun

You are hearing this right

This shows the different ways the same swara can be handled. The kampita on G does give asAvEri chAye, not so much of tODi.
I beleive this is what Subbarama dikshtitar implies by Asaveri jAti in SSP.

arunk wrote:BTW, check out http://www.geocities.com/gnanarnava/audiobooks.html. It has a brief sample of MD's krithi by TMK - faithfully following the notation given in SSP. BTW, this is part of a project (And i got to this site from G. Ravi Kiran's website). Even though the sample is a brief one, the mood (and handling of G1/N1 etc.) here is closer to that of BMK's krithi - very sedate (sort of expected given it is a krithi by MD).

Arun

I had a chance to listen to it too. But this version does not bring any Asaveri chaye IMO.

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Sep 2006, 02:19

This shows the different ways the same swara can be handled

True.

The kampita on G does give asAvEri chAye, not so much of tODi.

I thought the kampita on G on tODI can vary in many many ways, although it is usually much deeper typically between r1 and m1 (i.e.with no hint on R2/G1 - which must be so for tODI)?

While i am not 100% sure (need to check back to Drs fantastic demo!), in asAveri it is not as deep and maybe "dwelves" on the R2/G1 area a bit - i say it because asAveri to me has a vivadi touch many times in the way gandaram is handled. It has a wee-bit varALi touch as in some sort of emphasis of the R2/G1 area.

I beleive this is what Subbarama dikshtitar implies by Asaveri jAti in SSP.

I am not so sure - there seem no direct references to this. The swara pattern for asAveri jAti is given as:

Code: Select all

mG r s, r m p d p mg G r s, s p d p/ n d p mG g r s

where the slashes are slides. There is no indication of kampita symbol here and m to G1 seems always a jAru. That seems more consistent with BMK's rendition of his composition and of course TMK's renditioon of MD's.

As for the asAveri resemblance, to me, you have d1 p m1 g1 r1 s in a rAga, then it is not hard to get an asAveri touch

. I sense it most often if have a combo involving just m1, p, d1; and then go from m1 to the R2/G1 area. In asAveri it would be to G2 but as i said the way G2 is handled there to me has a tinge of G1. In kanakangi/kanakambari it would be to G1. Thats where i see the resemblance. It is of course not strict asAveri but just a general resemblance. I sense it whether it is a slow-slide from M1 to G1 or M1 followed by G1.

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Sep 2006, 03:19

arunk wrote:As for the asAveri resemblance, to me, you have d1 p m1 g1 r1 s in a rAga, then it is not hard to get an asAveri touch . I sense it most often if have a combo involving just m1, p, d1; and then go from m1 to the R2/G1 area.

Arun

So true. In fact, you don't even have to go to R. If you listen to the first 19 seconds of the song from Sruti Layalu, you see Asaveri with only s, m,p and d.

-Ramakriya

nsbhushan · Post by **nsbhushan** » 15 Sep 2006, 10:37

Samples of all Koteshwara Iyer Krithis in MeLa ragas rendered by S Rajam are available at http://www.musicalnirvana.com/script/mu ... e=carnatic

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Sep 2006, 20:12

thanks nsbushan. This rendition is also more in inline with MD's and BMK's w.r.t usage of G1, N1.

I think we have had a good, comprhensive audio coverage of kanakAngi. I want to add that elongated flat D1 also plays a part in setting the mood of the raga. The raga has scope for moderate elaboration as renditions by BMK, KJY and S. Rajam have included improvisations in alapana, neraval (S. Rajam) and kalpana swaras.

Time to move on to the next mELa?

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 16 Sep 2006, 09:48

May be

Since we have almost seen different audio samples in kanakAngi. Before moving on to Ratnangi, I would like to mention that last month I attended a Veena concert where Sri Srikanth Chary played a faboulous rAga-tAna-pallavi in kanakAngi and followed it with rAgamAlikA svaras in 11 rAgas, taking one rAga form each chakra.

If I come across a recording of this, I will post it.

-Ramakriya

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 16 Sep 2006, 17:46

There is a malayalam song in kanakangi from the film Sreeragam that goes like "kanakAngi swaravAhini varavarNini kudajAdri nivAsini" sung by KJY and Kanchangad Ramachandran.

By the way, here is an illustration of Kanakangi by Nookala - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/SJx ... .As1NMvHdW but there is some disturbance in the recording.

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 16 Sep 2006, 19:14

Ramakriya-rtp in kanakangi?Please do find a recording and post it.
SRK,I listened to that song on Asianet long time back (was it picturised on nedumudi venu?)and was looking for the movie.Thanks for posting it.I will hunt for the song.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 16 Sep 2006, 19:49

Kartik... I think it is the same one available at http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=43602

By the way, what is the meaning of the word kanakAngi and does it have any relation to the todi varnam which starts with the same name?

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 16 Sep 2006, 20:54

srkris wrote:By the way, what is the meaning of the word kanakAngi

A woman with gold studded body?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 16 Sep 2006, 20:57

Golden hued would be more appropriate.

-Ramakriya

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Sep 2006, 21:09

srkris wrote:Kartik... I think it is the same one available at http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=43602

By the way, what is the meaning of the word kanakAngi and does it have any relation to the todi varnam which starts with the same name?

The clip from cooltoad is just a few seconds long!

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 16 Sep 2006, 21:57

Might be some problem with their website, since it shows a length of 4 minutes or so on the song page.

So the todi varnam "kanakangi" has no relation to the raga? Perhaps it was once sung in Kanakangi?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Sep 2006, 23:25

Hera is the text of the tODi varNa:

kanakAngi nI (varNa). rAgA: tODi. k/aTa tALA. Composer: Pallavi Gopala Iyer.

P: kanakAngi nI celimikOri gAciyunnadirA
A: dhanaduNDaina shrI tulajEndruni tanayuDaina sarabhOji mahArAjEndra
C: maguva rammanerA

Bombay Sisters have sung it here:

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... rtist.102/

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Sep 2006, 01:05

srkris wrote:So the todi varnam "kanakangi" has no relation to the raga? Perhaps it was once sung in Kanakangi?

Surely not. I do not know the exact meaning of the varna (may be meena/lakshman can help) but an pretty sure that kanakAngi is refering to the nAyaki of this varNa.

The svara sancharas in the varna do not suggest any bit of kanakAngi.

-Ramakriya

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 17 Sep 2006, 01:16

Thanks Ramakriya

meena · Post by **meena** » 17 Sep 2006, 01:23

sorry i do not have the meaning .
the varna clip is available at DELETED- create a login and then search in music for 'sudha rani' (manda sudha rani)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Sep 2006, 01:40

Kiran,
Does the sAhityam refer to the fact that a 'lady with a golden complexion waiting for the favors of sarabOji mahAraja, the son of tulAji maharAja, has asked for him to come to her'?
Ravi

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 17 Sep 2006, 04:58

Sankar
You are right. Here is the word to word meaning of the sahitya

P: kanakAngi(lady with golden complexion) nI(your) celimikOri(favours) gAciyunnadirA(awaiting)
A: dhanaduNDaina(????) shrI tulajEndruni tanayuDaina(son) sarabhOji mahArAjEndra
C: maguva(the lady) rammanerA(is welcoming you)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:16

celimi- friendship, company
kOri- expecting
dhanaduNDaina- dhanaduNDu+ aina- you who are a giver of great riches
SrI tuLajEndruni tanayuDaina- you, the son of king tuLaja.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:22

Thanks Kiran and DRS. I think we can now move on to ratnAngi. But before that, does someone know the naming scheme for the mELa ragas? There is some precise formula, but I am not aware of the details.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:37

The naming scheme is kaTapayAdi. Pl. refer to http://members.tripod.com/~RKSanka/music/katapaya.html (i guess it is also called kaTapayA?)

Basically syllables are assigned a certain number (0-9). You then take the first 2 syllables of a melakarta raga name, lookup the numbers. Flip the numbers and that gives you the mela number. Example: dIrashankarAbharaNam: dI/da = 9, ra = 2 i.e 9 and 2 or when flipped 2 an 9 = 29.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:43

arunk wrote:Example: dIrashankarAbharaNam: dI/da = 9, ra = 2 i.e 9 and 2 or when flipped 2 an 9 = 29.

Arun

It is dhIra SankarAbharaNa. kaTapayAdi= ka+Ta+pa+ya+Adi

Why is kanakAmbari being sidelined? Is the thread restricted to sampUrNa mELas?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:50

Oops! Should have stayed away from examples and thus avoided shooting myself in the foot!

Sorry and thanks Drs (And a big slightly belated welcome to this thread

).

We did discuss kanakAmbari briefly (i had quoted stuff from ssp a few posts back etc.) albeit not in a scholarly way perhaps!

I think we must discuss both systems here.

Arun

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 17 Sep 2006, 05:55

By all means, please elaborate on kanakAmbari too. I dont get what you mean by sidelined...

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 06:11

srkris wrote:I dont get what you mean by sidelined...

What is so difficult to understand here?

kanakAngi was discussed by Arunk and ramakriya. someone could post kanakAmbari recording. arun, ramakriya can also discuss it.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Sep 2006, 06:20

drs,

i cant come up with any more based on my current limitations er... capabilities (:-). We did post a link to a brief, partial rendition of the dIkshitar krithi in kanakAmbari by TMK. We talked about the usage of G1 and N1 as mentioned by SSP, and as rendered by TMK, which is also consistent with many renditions of kanakAmbari also. Please add what we missed, and elaborate what we may touched only peripherally, as you feel appropriate.

Thanks
Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 06:41

arunk wrote:We did post a link to a brief, partial rendition of the dIkshitar krithi in kanakAmbari by TMK.

Yes but it is too brief to get a feel.

It is always a good idea to give a scale (With all its limitations) first. That itself simplifies the process of understanding to a degree. For kanakAmbari the scale is

SR1M1PD1S* | S*N1,DPMG1,RS ||

You and Ramakriya have done a good discussion. Im taking it in. Keep it coming.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 06:44

There is als rAga SuddhamukhAri that is listed as a janya of kanakAmbari in SSP and CP. mukhAri is the first of the pUrvaprasiddha mELas. I dont find any difference between SuddhamukhAri and kanakAmbari except in name. Can any of you see/infer a difference?

I think mukhAri was renamed as kanakAmbari to fit the kaTapayAdi sUtra

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Sep 2006, 07:59

mukhAri is the first of the pUrvaprasiddha mELas. I dont find any difference between SuddhamukhAri and kanakAmbari except in name. Can any of you see/infer a difference?

Yep i think mukhAri was the first mELa in all texts from rAmamatya upto (but not including) sangrahacUDAmaNi. (For the benefit of others) Basically, this was because it has all "suddha swaras" and in the old grama system "suddha swaras" were considered "pure" or atleast "special". Hence the status of first mEla was reserved for the mEla which has only suddha swaras.

But of course the twist is that most probably the suddha swaras of the old gramas were not the suddha swaras we know today. They were (probably) akin to kharaharapriya mELa (this itself a separate topic (:-)).

It is believed (and i tend to agree) that the old mukhAri mEla was something that was perhaps born in the post-grama era out of theoretical interpretation of the grama-era, and an incorrect one at that. Ramamatya says mukhari is accepted as suddha by SarngadEva (can you find a reference in sangItaratnAkara? I couldnt). It was definitely practised - but whether it was the kind of inheritence from grama system that the texts seemed to imply - we are not sure, and it doesnt seem that likely.

Coming back to kanakAmbari and suddhamukhAri, from the text references i consulted, you are right. I think they are indeed the same in structure. In texts that give swara pattern, both drop ga and ni in ascent. Some texts (not just mudduvEnkaTamakhin's) explicitly mention it dropping ga and ni in ascent.

I think mukhAri was renamed as kanakAmbari to fit the kaTapayAdi sUtra

I think you may be on to something. It didnt occur to me. mudduvEnkaTamakhin's work was the first one where kanakAmbari appears - with mukhAri under it. SSP says this later came to known as suddhamukhAri.

The are early work hrdayakautaka, places a mukhAri in 20th mEla but also claim it has all suddha swaras (except dhaivata). The author of this work and another similar work is hrdayanArAyaNadEva, intrprets the old suddha swaras as that of 22nd mEla. Some later texts follow this. This mukAri is of course the "modern mukhAri". I think these texts interpreted the old suddha swaras correctly. I think these are "northern" texts. The southern ones starting with rAmamatya seemed to have possibility gotten on the wrong path.

BTW, mudduvEnkaTamakhin has a mukhAri under 1st AND 20th mELa.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Sep 2006, 14:18

Hear muraharENa mukundEna of dIkShitar in SuddhamukhAri here. It also has some swara kalpane in it. Will give a very clear idea of kanakAmbari

http://rapidshare.de/files/33413954/mur ... Shitar.mp3

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 17 Sep 2006, 15:23

DRS, the ragamudra for this song is "shuddha mukhari", then how come dikshitar uses both references - kanakAmbari and shuddha mukhAri, in his compositions if they are the same?

And how can the same raga (if they are identical) be listed as its own janya under a different name (like what you mentioned about SSP and CP)?

The song is good. Who is it?