Etymology for "sankIrna"
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One of the meanings (most common one , AFAIK) of sankIrNa is complex, complicated etc.
I have no idea why the names have been handed over like this over the generations. However, originally there
was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).
I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.
-Ramakriya
I have no idea why the names have been handed over like this over the generations. However, originally there
was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).
I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.
-Ramakriya
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The 5 jAtis to the 7 tALas was a contribution of purandaradAsa only and not a development after his time. He systematized the tALas and clasiified the 7*5 jAtis. Of course the 5 in which he set alankAras came to be the default ones for each type as they are the ones taught and sung most often.ramakriya wrote:However, originally there was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).
I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.
-Ramakriya
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My thoughts on the names. tryaSra (triSra/ tiSra) and caturaSra need no explanation. khaNDa because it is tryaSra and half of caturaSra(khaNDa) joined. miSra because it is a conjoining (miSra) of tryaSra and caturaSra. And sankIrNa because it is a complex mix of khaNDa( which itself is a combination) and caturaSra.
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Apologies if my words were ambiguous/nebulous.arunk wrote:drs,
so the word khanDa implies/hints-at "joining"? And the word miSra implies/hints-at "conjoining"? Can you please clarify? maybe with examples of usage of these words in other contexts with their meanings (if appplicable)
Thanks
Arun
I had no intentions of implying different meanings for "joining" and "conjoining". khaNDa does not mean nor does it hint at "joining". khaNDa means a piece or fragment/part of the whole. miSra means mixture. It does not beg for an example as that is simply what it means.
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I remember reading something to this effect in an article by Prof R Satyanarayana - Will try to get hold of that. There is always a chance that my memory is failingdrshrikaanth wrote:The 5 jAtis to the 7 tALas was a contribution of purandaradAsa only and not a development after his time. He systematized the tALas and clasiified the 7*5 jAtis. Of course the 5 in which he set alankAras came to be the default ones for each type as they are the ones taught and sung most often.ramakriya wrote:However, originally there was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).
I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.
-Ramakriya
-Ramakriya
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As far as my current understanding goes these are the literal meanings:
khaNDa - fragmented/broken (DRS interprets this as a 3 + half of 4, so broken )
misra - blended/combined/mixed
saMkIrNa - mingled/put together/spread out
It would be interesting to know why these names are used instead of the numbers which they represent, and why only for these three is this kind of name used, the other two having their normal names tisra and chatusra? Okay so misra makes sense... it is a combination of tisra and chatusra. How to link the other two?
khaNDa - fragmented/broken (DRS interprets this as a 3 + half of 4, so broken )
misra - blended/combined/mixed
saMkIrNa - mingled/put together/spread out
It would be interesting to know why these names are used instead of the numbers which they represent, and why only for these three is this kind of name used, the other two having their normal names tisra and chatusra? Okay so misra makes sense... it is a combination of tisra and chatusra. How to link the other two?
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Re: Etymology for
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq7ev5V_9xE
Sashikira gives a different twist to Khanda , while still maintaining the meaning of fragmentation .
Sashikira gives a different twist to Khanda , while still maintaining the meaning of fragmentation .
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Re: Etymology for
Cross-posting from :
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15980&start=150#p198080
" Strictly speaking, there are only two basic jatis - chaturashra (4) and tishra (3). ....
Mishra (mixture of the two fundamentals) = 4+3.
Khanda (split) = 4+3+3 / 2
Sankeerna (integration) = 4+5 "
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15980&start=150#p198080
" Strictly speaking, there are only two basic jatis - chaturashra (4) and tishra (3). ....
Mishra (mixture of the two fundamentals) = 4+3.
Khanda (split) = 4+3+3 / 2
Sankeerna (integration) = 4+5 "
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Re: Etymology for SANKIRNA
It is like how auDava is there for rAgAs with 5 notes , derived from uDu - thought to be a constellation of 5 stars (Prof. SRJ Lecdem@ Columbus, Ohio) or in general representation , a star graffiti has 5 vertices, if drawn continuously by hand.
uDu in general means a constellation. uDupa is also a float - likely from a metaphoric view of stars swimming the ocean of the space. Reminds of kaliDasa's "udupEnAsmi sAgaram" - I will stay afloat in the sAgara (ocean) of effort in composing raghuvamSa.
Sometimes artists can get artistic in picking terms.
uDu in general means a constellation. uDupa is also a float - likely from a metaphoric view of stars swimming the ocean of the space. Reminds of kaliDasa's "udupEnAsmi sAgaram" - I will stay afloat in the sAgara (ocean) of effort in composing raghuvamSa.
Sometimes artists can get artistic in picking terms.
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Re: Etymology for
Etymology for Sankirna:
Just saw this thread. Monier Williams:
सं-कीर्ण b mfn. poured together, mixed, commingled
9 can be split as 2+3+4, 1+3+5,4+5,3+6 and so on. Gives the maximum play for such combinations.
Just saw this thread. Monier Williams:
सं-कीर्ण b mfn. poured together, mixed, commingled
9 can be split as 2+3+4, 1+3+5,4+5,3+6 and so on. Gives the maximum play for such combinations.