OUR COMMON HERITAGE

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jun 2005, 21:20

Music is the bridge that unites India. We can instinctively identify Indian Music among all other forms of global music. In the West Indian Music is classified under "ethnic music" with a major subdivision as Hindusthani Music (HM) and Carnatic Music (CM). We have also accepted this division as fait accompli and draw an imaginary borderline across regions in India. There are tons of theoretical monographs which discuss the difference in the two systems. But to a Rasika, music is an affair of the heart not bounded by theory. Yet there is still a method in madness. Let us learn what unites us before delving into what divides us. This Forum opens the doors for both HM and CM Rasikas to join hands and appreciate each others form of Music. It is supposed to be entertaining and at the same time educational. We should have practical demonstration of what is what (thanks to the archival materials and the cyberbanks as well as experts who can explain the nuances). It is the motto of Ray Kinsella, the Iowa farmer who built the baseball diamond: "If you build it they will come" in the famous field of dreams which has impelled Chembai to make this facility available. Let us use it! educate, enlighten and enjoy!

My first quest is the most common link between HM and CM -- the Ragas.
Here is one of the links that shows the most common Ragas with definitions.
http://www.asavari.org/ragamala.html
While some aspects are being discussed in the thread:
http://www.freepgs.com/carnatic/viewtop ... 1&start=10
can we have examples and elaborations by knowlegeables in HM at this site? Can we also draw the attention of posters in RMIC to this facility so that we can explore together "our common heritage"? Thanks

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 04 Jun 2005, 23:45

sri cmlover,
thanks for the list of HM rAga list. probably Sri kulkarni will be able to give a comprehensive list of all HM rAgas.
i dont see Kedar in there

sri kulkarni,
thank you very much.
although not at all exposed to HM, i like BGAK, as I already admitted it. i expect you to educate us with some technicalities! not too much in detail ofcourse.

here's the link of 'yousendit' for Kedar .
http://s14.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0YAD ... 66ASTCUW9X

it will be available for 7 days. after that it'll be disabled.
posting this for the benefit of those who have difficulty in getting tickets to 'rapidshare'

kulkarniji, hope you dont mind me posting this link.

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2005, 00:36

kulkarniji, Thanks for opening the door!
Pl. do not lose heart, when i have nothing to contribute iÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??ll enjoy silently. Pl. share with us ur valuable knowledge and PLEASE do not get too technical, like divakarji mentions. If possible do provide us with audio samples. and educate us!
While growing up at home my father played ONLY HM music. ( he had just few selective LPs and this did not stop him, he played these 24/7. I did not appreciate the music then- ignorance

I enjoy BGAK and ustad bismillah khanÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢??s shehnai! And theres was this lady that my dad played i do not recall her name, what a voice she had! Not heard anyone like her.

thanks again!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jun 2005, 02:26

Chembai
Some of as are tyros in the realm of HM. It will be nice to have a 'gentle introduction to HM' from a veteran who knows CM very well. I would suggest a series of feature articles which is currently lacking at this site. Could you open up an area for posting such 'Lessons'? It will be nice if KulkarNi can enlighten us with samples with write-ups if he has time. Alternatively could you request some eminent Musicians in Chennai (GS Mani comes to mind) to assist us! He has given innumerable talks on "Milan", the interface between CM and HM?

meena
Could you also help us by posting links on HM (basics which we can read up).

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2005, 02:31

cml

Current i'm reading DELETED

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2005, 04:25

Deleted

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jun 2005, 05:52

Thanks meena
I'll try to catch up with you!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jun 2005, 07:26

all users.
rajan parikkars site is a wonderful storehouse to build on your stocks.tonnes of tracks and articles , in such a neat order.

divakar, meena
i have invited a few of my knowledgeable friends to participate, but i prefer to remain in the company of laymen.

tracks and clippings.... 80 gb of HM, NEATLY BURNT ON CDS RAGAWISE, starting from the humblest of bhajans to the most expansive of renderings for a raga,right through hindi film songs,qawwalis, lecdems, vividh bharathi sangeeth sarithas,is at the command of this forum..
the raga comparison file .. i will mail to srkris so that he can put it up on a permanent basis on this site(it is small file)

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jun 2005, 08:24

raga comaparisons

while i was working on the file, could not help letting a few names out of the bag.
carnatic Hindustani
Niroshta Adhbut Kalyan
Bhairavi Ahi mohini
Dharmavathi Ambika
Deva Manohari badahamsa Sarang(Type2)
Balahamsa Champak
Bilahari Deshakshi
Hamsanandi Devnandini
Pushpa Lathika Goundgiri
Saveri Gunakri
Begada Hem Kalyan
Shuddha Saveri Lajvanthi
Manirangu Lankadahan Sarang
Udaya Ravichandrike Madhumanjani
Gambhira Nata Madhuranjani
Hamsanada Malarani
Jayanthasri Malkali
Phala Manjari Pat Manjari
Nagavalli Pundalika
Dhanyasi Takka
Revathi Vibhavari

cracking these hindusthani ones will take some effort, if they are
as exotic as their names suggest ...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jun 2005, 09:29

coolkarni
This is like learning a whole new language. But a Todi, KalyaNi or Mohanam by whatever name they are called still sound sweet!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jun 2005, 12:32

kedaram-saavani continues on a separate thread

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Jun 2005, 18:16

On this topic, I think it will be a good idea for people like me who are amateur CM lovers, venturing into HM to listen to an effort from Kanya Kumari and Pt. Mitta (I believe he is a disciple of BR Ravi Shankar, living in Madras): the album is called Prashantam, and it lives upto its name: they have handled similar ragas from CM and HM side by side. Allows one to see the similarities and differences: what struck me was that some of raags, like Sindhu Bhairavi see so VERY similar, and in fact, I could NOT tell musically, when the violinist completed, and when the sitar took over for this raagam.
On the same topic: does anyone have sites to listen to Anuradha Sriram-Sriram jugalbandhi?
Thanks.
Ravi

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 07 Jun 2005, 20:39

Janardhan Mitta also organises HM in Chennai under the banner Viswakalasangama.
His son plays tabla exceptionally well and is currently in the US.

Other albums which are worth listening.

1.Album titled Raag Milan -Bangalore Srinivas CM and Vinayak Torvi HM.
One interesting aspect of this album is the compositions they sing.
Normally in vocal jugalbandis ( I have heard Bhimsen-balmuarlii, Jasraj-balmurali,TNS-Rashid Khan, Balmurali-Kishori amonkar) each artist sings a different composition -or a line or whatever is that).but in this album, both sing the same lines ..Say in yaman and kalyani they sing "nada roopame sree ramudaina, vedarupame sree Krishnudaina'.Only then one can see the difference in approach of the two systems very clearly.
This is available in bangalore music stores
2.The famous Lalgudi-amjad ali Khan EMI album.mohana nad hindola
3.L subramaniam-Bismillah Khan at Geneva available at all stores
4.TNK-Amjad Ali-rag sangeetha and Salagabhairavi-HMV

However from Non commercial recordings I shall try to post
TNK-Bale Khan Sitar concert
TNK-N rajam AIR recordings-Bagesri-Sriranjini and Bhairavi-Sindhu Bhairavi
and some sangeeth saritha programs from AIR

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 09 Jun 2005, 01:17

I had compiled a list of Karanatak ragas and hindustani equivalents some years ago. The list is available here:
http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/hcragatable.html

I will also provide a link soon for a jugalbandi by Sudha Raghunathan and Aparna Panshikar singing kafi/kharaharapriya.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 09 Jun 2005, 02:33

Here is the link:
http://rapidshare.de/files/2260987/kahA ... l.mp3.html

mantra · Post by **mantra** » 28 Nov 2005, 00:16

Lakshman Sir,
Can you repost the Sudha-Aparna kafi/karahapriya?
Thanks
Shyam

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Nov 2005, 00:57

Here is the link for Sudha/Aparna Panishker: http://rapidshare.de/files/8250248/kahA ... l.mp3.html
Ravi

sumram99 · Post by **sumram99** » 20 Feb 2006, 20:15

Dear Kulkarniji,

Is Bangalore Srinivas you mentioned in one of your above postings same as "Chami" from Bangalore. This person (Chami) has composed background music for a lot of recordings of Vidyabhushana. Just wondering if he is the same person you were talking about.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 21 Feb 2006, 08:41

sumram99
sorry.that should have been Bangalor S Shankar.(this is turning out to be one of those bad weeks.I am getting even the names wrong I better go through all my posts in one shot and revise!!!!)

param · Post by **param** » 24 Feb 2006, 13:57

Coolji,
Is it too many signatures??? The load of having to do it alone???

param · Post by **param** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:24

Dear CML, Coolkarni and others,

Here is a treat for you all (it is possible u already have this in your files) if not please put it in.

One picture where u find the following:
Nissar Hussain Khan
Ahmadjan Thirakwa
Hafiz Ali Khan
Mushtaq Hussain Khan
Omkarnath Thakur
Kesaibai Kerkar
Allaudin Kan
Kanthe Maharaj
Ghulam Mustafa Khan
Keramatullah khan
Radhikamohan Moitra,
Illayaz Khan
Bismillah Khan
Kishan Maharaj
Ravi Shankar
Ali Akbar Khan
Vilayat Khan
Narayanrao Vyas
Vinayakrao Patwardhan
DV Paluskar
Ghulam Sabir Khan
SN Ratanjankar,
Gyan Prakash Ghosh
Vinaychandra Maudgalya
and our first President - Rajendra Prasad

http://rapidshare.de/files/15717397/HM_ ... e.doc.html 8)

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 17 Mar 2006, 19:21

Param,
A jewel indeed!
Thanks,
vrbadri.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 17 Mar 2006, 19:41

Oh Boy !!
Thank you so much Param..

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 21:37

Param

This is indeed a heritage picture that must be in every household! With Rajen Babu sitting in the middle It is like the galaxy with its centre of attraction! Many thanks for bringing this out.

Why no women other than Kesarbai? Which year?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 15 Dec 2007, 06:52

http://swaratala.blogspot.com/2007/11/r ... about.html
the sad story of shehnai
courtesy ranjani - member here

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 07 Jun 2008, 23:18

http://chennaionline.com/columns/variet ... nmusic.asp
A light-hearted article on CM vs HM.
Wonder if the Kulkarni and Shankar mentioned in the article have any resemblance to their namesakes on this forum.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Jun 2008, 01:33

Nice one by Sriram. Also would help young students of CM to get acquainted with the two systems.
As for rshankar, don't be fooled by his Chennai roots. He can translate
Tulsidas just as well as he does bhArati and enjoys HM. As for Kulkarni, I thought he WAS madrAsi--or Madurai man, 'Lord SundarESvarA'?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 08 Jun 2008, 04:59

ragam-talam wrote:Wonder if the Kulkarni and Shankar mentioned in the article have any resemblance to their namesakes on this forum.

LOL!

Thanks, Arasi!!

Kanti Dattani · Post by **Kanti Dattani** » 08 Jun 2008, 12:14

>>coolkarni wrote on 7.6.2005
>>...Lalgudi-amjad ali Khan EMI album.mohana nad hindola
>>...L subramaniam-Bismillah Khan at Geneva
>>...TNK-Amjad Ali-rag sangeetha and Salagabhairavi-HMV

Besides the three mentioned above I also have the following CDs. (I may have more, will go through my list more carefully at a later date.) I don't know if they fit the bill as I am not a musician. I am just keenly INTERESTED in 'World Music.' For further details contact [email protected]. I am not in music business and don't sell CDs. I am in UK and buy CDs from all over the world. I understand that CDs are cheaper in India and US.

Balamurali and Bhimsen Joshi
Balamurali and Hariprasad Chaurasia
Balamurali and Kishori Amonkar
Gopalkrishnan and Sultan Khan
Jayanthi Kumaresh and Purbayan Chatterjee
Kadri Gopalnath and Wadwati
Narayan Mani and Ulhas Bapat etc
Shashank and Rashid Khan
Srinivas and Sultan Khan
L Subramanium and Ali Akbar Khan 3 CDs
L Subramanium and Rais Khan

Best wishes

Kanti Dattani
8.6.2008

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 08 Jun 2008, 16:36

ragam thalam

That is the tortuous path I have travelled.Indeed .

From Ragam to Thalam.

I wonder What Shankar and Kulkarni would have done if they had attended concerts that are shown below.
Firstly Bade Glulam Ali Khan
http://rapidshare.com/files/118974495/01-Yaman.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/118849625/0 ... hwanii.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/118974497/03-Kedar.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/119232051/04-Malkauns.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/119219165/05-Thumris.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/119219164/06-Darbari.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/119219163/0 ... -Tabla.mp3

A Khan singing for a Ramanavami Concert in Bangalore 1956.
Listen to this concert Nonstop for 3 1/2 hours and you will see that these Canteen-distinctions are at best superficial.It is the undercurrent that matters.

Like what Lalgudi does here in a private concert .

Langorous Lalgudi , toying with notes at will..

http://rapidshare.com/files/120914746/L ... apriya.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/120914747/L ... illana.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/120914748/L ... Kanada.mp3

No wonder he was raving about BGAKs Music when I last met him , and played a Video of Bade for him.
If you are keen I can upload the best part of this vintage lalgudi Concert later - a series of alapanas and then a sudden break into a Pallavi in Shamukhapriya

lifeisasong · Post by **lifeisasong** » 09 Jun 2008, 00:38

coolkarni wrote:If you are keen I can upload the best part of this vintage lalgudi Concert later - a series of alapanas and then a sudden break into a Pallavi in Shamukhapriya

I am keen!

Kanti Dattani · Post by **Kanti Dattani** » 09 Jun 2008, 12:21

Further to my posting on 8 June 2008, I have just found out that the following two new CDs have just been released by http://www.senseworldmusic.com/

1. Kala Ramnath & Ganesh Iyer
Ahir Bhairav/Chakra Vaham

2. Kadri Gopalnath & Ronu Majumdar
Hansadhwani
Hansadhwani / Pilu Gat in Addha taal
Percussion solo featuring Tabla, Mridangam and Morsing

I will continue to search for more in my music collection.

Kanti

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 05 Jul 2009, 13:10

AIR started broadcast of National Program of Music with jugalbandhis. Jugalbandhi was of the format , wherein a similar,common and popular raga of both HM and CM are chosen and Ustads/Pandits of HM will perform first and followed by Vidwans/Vidushis will perform second, separately. After few programs, the program was taken off the AIR. The reason was that musicians were not showing adequate interest in participating/performing. When raga Jaijaiwanti and Dwijavanthi was chosen, no CM Maestros were willing to perform. As Chief Producer, GNB mama requested SSRao, Producer to take up the challenge and perform ! SSRao chose and sang Mudduswami Dikshita composition 'Cheta Sri Balakrishnam Bhaja re' and was well received and well appreciated by GNB.
If we stick to the original idea on jugalbandi, offer HM and CM music, as per the tradition,uncompromisingly and present educative concerts, , enlivening the rasikas of both HM and CM, the cause of Indian Music will be well served. I need to mention that the enthusiasm and support given by the Vidwans/Vidushis and rasikas of CM to HM is not at all matched by HM Ustads/Pandits and rasikas of HM. Lec-demo on the raga and the composition being taken up and the jugalbandi concert will definitely enlighten the listeners, will lead to appreciation, enjoyment and support of the rasikas.

munirao2001

mankuthimma · Post by **mankuthimma** » 06 Nov 2010, 10:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ5bySQg ... re=related

Some Soul stirring stuff
From an Afghan festival

rasikas.org

OUR COMMON HERITAGE

Re: OUR COMMON HERITAGE