Tyagabrahmam
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Tyagabrahmam
Though popularly known as Tyagaraja, his name was Tyagabrahma Iyer as indicated in the document signed by him! Photograph of ‘the sale deed inscribed on a plamleaf and SIGNED BY HIM’ is available at:-
http://www.eemaata.com/images/may2009/t ... le_doc.jpg
As per the Sale Deed, Tyagabrama Iyer sold his house in 1828, i.e. when he was 61 years of age. Curiously the document is in Tamil, though Tanjavur at that time was ruled by the Marathas and the mother tongue of Tyagabrama Iyer was Telugu. It is not known whether his signature is in Tamil or Telugu.
Here is the translation, attempted by me, of the Sale Deed and the initial note seen in the photograph:-
“Palm Leaf document with Sri Tyagaraja’s signature was found in the family of the hereditary Village Administrator of Tiruvaiyaru Kalyana Mahal Palace.
“On this 31st day of December 1828, 11th day of Margazhi month Sarvadhari year, the Sale Deed given by both of us - Tyagabrahmaiyer son of Ramabrahmaiyer and Subbhabrahamaiyer son of Panchanathabrahman residing in Tirumanjana Street of Tiruvaiyaru, to Sowbhagyavati Balammabai Ammal, daughter of Sowbhagyavati Lagubai Amma of Tanjavur City, covering the residential house and land property, owned by both of us, located in the Garuda Vastu western portion of Tirumanjana Street of the abovementioned village, sold to you as per this Deed for 32 souverign and 3 ¾ fanam, equal to Silver Rupee 50 5/16 and 3 ¾ fanam, and cash received by us in the presence of the Tiruvaiyaru Rajakumaratthi Sowbhagya (Uba)yaThaimar’s Palace Shroff Ayyalu Naicken which may be considered as compensation in full. Agreed as mentioned above, we, Tyagabrahmaiyer and Subbhabrahmaiyer, have given this Cash Receipt for the Sale to Sowbhagyavati Balammabai Ammal, daughter of Sowbhagyavati Lagubai Ammal.
(Sd.) Tyagabrahmaiyer (Sd.) Subbhabrahmaiyer
Witnesses:-
Venkitarama Sastri of the above Street - Witness
Sambasivaiyer of the above Street - Witness
Tiruvadi Venkitaramaiyer - Witness
Witness - Panchanata Gurukal, Son of Sama Gurukal
In the presence of: Shroff Ayyalu Naicken.â€
http://www.eemaata.com/images/may2009/t ... le_doc.jpg
As per the Sale Deed, Tyagabrama Iyer sold his house in 1828, i.e. when he was 61 years of age. Curiously the document is in Tamil, though Tanjavur at that time was ruled by the Marathas and the mother tongue of Tyagabrama Iyer was Telugu. It is not known whether his signature is in Tamil or Telugu.
Here is the translation, attempted by me, of the Sale Deed and the initial note seen in the photograph:-
“Palm Leaf document with Sri Tyagaraja’s signature was found in the family of the hereditary Village Administrator of Tiruvaiyaru Kalyana Mahal Palace.
“On this 31st day of December 1828, 11th day of Margazhi month Sarvadhari year, the Sale Deed given by both of us - Tyagabrahmaiyer son of Ramabrahmaiyer and Subbhabrahamaiyer son of Panchanathabrahman residing in Tirumanjana Street of Tiruvaiyaru, to Sowbhagyavati Balammabai Ammal, daughter of Sowbhagyavati Lagubai Amma of Tanjavur City, covering the residential house and land property, owned by both of us, located in the Garuda Vastu western portion of Tirumanjana Street of the abovementioned village, sold to you as per this Deed for 32 souverign and 3 ¾ fanam, equal to Silver Rupee 50 5/16 and 3 ¾ fanam, and cash received by us in the presence of the Tiruvaiyaru Rajakumaratthi Sowbhagya (Uba)yaThaimar’s Palace Shroff Ayyalu Naicken which may be considered as compensation in full. Agreed as mentioned above, we, Tyagabrahmaiyer and Subbhabrahmaiyer, have given this Cash Receipt for the Sale to Sowbhagyavati Balammabai Ammal, daughter of Sowbhagyavati Lagubai Ammal.
(Sd.) Tyagabrahmaiyer (Sd.) Subbhabrahmaiyer
Witnesses:-
Venkitarama Sastri of the above Street - Witness
Sambasivaiyer of the above Street - Witness
Tiruvadi Venkitaramaiyer - Witness
Witness - Panchanata Gurukal, Son of Sama Gurukal
In the presence of: Shroff Ayyalu Naicken.â€
Last edited by Pratyaksham Bala on 26 Oct 2010, 18:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
very interesting. I wish some rasika uploads the latest photo of the saint's house so that our members from us and Uk visiting India for the december season could also visit the place where he lived flesh and bones beside visiting the samadhi where he rests after his death.
At the outset I confess I am very ignorant about the biographical details of the saint. some doubts arise in my mind. I seek guidance from Experts.
1_ is there any mention about the sale of his ancestral house in any of his songs.
2-It is seen that the saint lived for 19 years after selling his ancestral house. Since his samadhi is at Thiruvaiyaru may be he did not leave the town. It is possible that the purchaser has magnanimously allowed him to stay there till his last.. Is there any expression of this gesture in any of his songs. or by any of his disciples
3-It is also possible that he might have shifted to some other house in thiruvaiyaru. In that case it may be worthwhile to trace out that house and make it a memorial for him. Is there any krithi in which he recollects with nostalgy the house where he lived and performed daily Dolothsavam till his 60th year.
4- from the registration dept may be we can trace the various persons who have bought his house until it was acquired by Smt Nagarathnammal. ( ?? ? )and the details of the present owner..
Ponbhairavi
At the outset I confess I am very ignorant about the biographical details of the saint. some doubts arise in my mind. I seek guidance from Experts.
1_ is there any mention about the sale of his ancestral house in any of his songs.
2-It is seen that the saint lived for 19 years after selling his ancestral house. Since his samadhi is at Thiruvaiyaru may be he did not leave the town. It is possible that the purchaser has magnanimously allowed him to stay there till his last.. Is there any expression of this gesture in any of his songs. or by any of his disciples
3-It is also possible that he might have shifted to some other house in thiruvaiyaru. In that case it may be worthwhile to trace out that house and make it a memorial for him. Is there any krithi in which he recollects with nostalgy the house where he lived and performed daily Dolothsavam till his 60th year.
4- from the registration dept may be we can trace the various persons who have bought his house until it was acquired by Smt Nagarathnammal. ( ?? ? )and the details of the present owner..
Ponbhairavi
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
These are photographs of the house where Tyagaraja (Tyagabrahma Iyer) lived and the Memorial built in that place. It is not known whether this was the ancestral house sold by him in 1828, or some other house where he had stayed subsequently.
Photo of the Old House:-
http://carnatica.net/nvr/tyg-house.JPG
Photo of the Memorial that was coming up in the place of the Old House:-
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/596 ... 39.jpg?v=0
Photo of the newly constructed Memorial:-
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dyna ... 17296f.jpg
Photo of the Old House:-
http://carnatica.net/nvr/tyg-house.JPG
Photo of the Memorial that was coming up in the place of the Old House:-
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/596 ... 39.jpg?v=0
Photo of the newly constructed Memorial:-
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dyna ... 17296f.jpg
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
QUESTIONS / OBSERVATIONS:-
1. What was the name given to him by his parents -- Tyagaraja or Tyagabrahmam? How to get authentic info on this?
2. His father's name was Ramabrahmam and his elder brother Panchapakesan's son's name was Subbhabrahmam. So, it is possible he was named Tyagabrahmam.
3. If Tyagabrahmam was his original name, did he prefer to use Tyagaraja as his mudra in his kritis, like Subrahmanya Bharati who called himself as Kaviraja when he sought the help of King Sethupati?
4. If Tyagaraja was the original name, may be Tyagabrahmam was the name adopted by him when he took 'sanyas'. In that case he should have beome a 'sanyasi' before the date of sale of the house; when did he actually become a 'sanyasi'? Any info on this?
5. The king had provided the said house to his father Ramabrahmam who had three sons -- Panchapakesa (Japesa), Ramanatha (who died young) and Tyaga... After the demise of Ramabrahmam the house must have passed on to his two surviving sons. Panchapakesa's son had signed the document of sale of the house indicating that Panchapakesa had passed away before that date.
6. It should be possible to get a clear image of his signature from the palm leaf. Can any member help?
7. The name of the buyer is indicated as Balammabai Ammal daughter of Lagubai Ammal of Tanjavur. This may indicate that they were dancers/singers attached to Tanjavur Temple. Any information available on these two dancers/singers?
1. What was the name given to him by his parents -- Tyagaraja or Tyagabrahmam? How to get authentic info on this?
2. His father's name was Ramabrahmam and his elder brother Panchapakesan's son's name was Subbhabrahmam. So, it is possible he was named Tyagabrahmam.
3. If Tyagabrahmam was his original name, did he prefer to use Tyagaraja as his mudra in his kritis, like Subrahmanya Bharati who called himself as Kaviraja when he sought the help of King Sethupati?
4. If Tyagaraja was the original name, may be Tyagabrahmam was the name adopted by him when he took 'sanyas'. In that case he should have beome a 'sanyasi' before the date of sale of the house; when did he actually become a 'sanyasi'? Any info on this?
5. The king had provided the said house to his father Ramabrahmam who had three sons -- Panchapakesa (Japesa), Ramanatha (who died young) and Tyaga... After the demise of Ramabrahmam the house must have passed on to his two surviving sons. Panchapakesa's son had signed the document of sale of the house indicating that Panchapakesa had passed away before that date.
6. It should be possible to get a clear image of his signature from the palm leaf. Can any member help?
7. The name of the buyer is indicated as Balammabai Ammal daughter of Lagubai Ammal of Tanjavur. This may indicate that they were dancers/singers attached to Tanjavur Temple. Any information available on these two dancers/singers?
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
This document is from 1828, some 19 years prior to his sanyASASramam and mOkSam in 1847. It is said that he took sanyAsASramA 7 or 10 days before his mOkSam on bahuLa panchami day. His birth name was indeed tyAgabrahmam. His sanyASASrama nAma was nAdaprEmAnanda saraswati. This reference is available somewhere online but I cant trace it now. I have heard brahmaSrI T S bAlakRSNa SAStri mention this in his tyAgarAja charitram upanyAsam.Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 4. If Tyagaraja was the original name, may be Tyagabrahmam was the name adopted by him when he took 'sanyas'. In that case he should have beome a 'sanyasi' before the date of sale of the house; when did he actually become a 'sanyasi'? Any info on this?
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
ksrimech:
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
A digression:-
I had the pleasure of working with Sri T.S. Balakrishna Sastri in State Bank of India, Madras! His standard dress was panchakutcham, coat and thalaipagai (to hide the kudumi). A number of people would be calling on him daily during office hours seeking his blessings!
I had the pleasure of working with Sri T.S. Balakrishna Sastri in State Bank of India, Madras! His standard dress was panchakutcham, coat and thalaipagai (to hide the kudumi). A number of people would be calling on him daily during office hours seeking his blessings!
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Mods
Can we merge this thread with the original TyagarAja thread
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... &start=175
Can we merge this thread with the original TyagarAja thread
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... &start=175
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
The other thread was named 'Thyagaraja (Krithis)'. That was the reason why I had to open a new thread.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
PB,Pratyaksham Bala wrote:The other thread was named 'Thyagaraja (Krithis)'. That was the reason why I had to open a new thread.
That thread had a wrong title to start with, but it is part of vageyakkara, possibly once this thread is merged , mods can rename that thread also, dropping krithis with just thyagaraja.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Fine.
I find a similar set of threads: Muthuswamy Dikshitar and Muthuswamy Dikshitar (Kritis).
I find a similar set of threads: Muthuswamy Dikshitar and Muthuswamy Dikshitar (Kritis).
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Smt. MLV in her wonderful lecture-demonstration on Thodi consistently refers to the bard as Thyagabrahmam . Before this thread I thought it was a respectful way of addressing thyagaraja given the saintly status but now I know that Thyagabrahmam is indeed his actual name. ( Of course, the respect part of it is amply expressed in what she says about Sri. Thyagabrahmam )
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
vk - is this lec-dem available somewhere? Thanks.Smt. MLV in her wonderful lecture-demonstration on Thodi
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
r-t, if you did not find it in sangeethapriya, I should have gotten it from Thimma. Let us see what Thimma says. I have it on a CD I made for myself and I can extract it from there and post as a last resort.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
VK No I dont remember having given such a track. Just check if Concert Classical Archives shows up in the properties .
If Yes , then I will have to start searching for my track
Just listening to a serene Tyagarja Special by S Kalyanraman-T Rukmini - Raja Rao . Can put it up if some one likes it.
If Yes , then I will have to start searching for my track
Just listening to a serene Tyagarja Special by S Kalyanraman-T Rukmini - Raja Rao . Can put it up if some one likes it.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
S Kalyanaraman? T Rukmini? Yes, of course!
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Here's the lecdem - not sure whether I got it from this forum (coolkarni) or from Sangeethapriya.vk - is this lec-dem available somewhere? Thanks.
http://www.mediafire.com/?c9ry8zbc5q7p59j
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Dear all,
Although I am not able to read the tamil letters in the photograph provided(jpg), the signature below which is in telugu clearly indicates the name as "THYAGABRAHAM"
He belongs to Mulukanadu Telugu Bramhin sect and to keep the name as "Iyer" is not a known practice in this sect.
We can find similar anamolies in the names of "Pallavi Sheshayya", who is misquotes as Pallavi Shesha Iyer the guru of my great grand father Chintalapalli Venkatarao.
Similar examples can be cited in the names of Thiruvotriyur Thyagayya, Manabuchavadi Venkatasubbaiah, Pachimiriam Adi Appayya, Kuppayya, Pattabhiramaiah (Javali fame).
There is a need to rewrite the history and correct their names, upon which we will be able to pay them due respects which they deserved unconditionally.
Chintalapalli Somashekar
Although I am not able to read the tamil letters in the photograph provided(jpg), the signature below which is in telugu clearly indicates the name as "THYAGABRAHAM"
He belongs to Mulukanadu Telugu Bramhin sect and to keep the name as "Iyer" is not a known practice in this sect.
We can find similar anamolies in the names of "Pallavi Sheshayya", who is misquotes as Pallavi Shesha Iyer the guru of my great grand father Chintalapalli Venkatarao.
Similar examples can be cited in the names of Thiruvotriyur Thyagayya, Manabuchavadi Venkatasubbaiah, Pachimiriam Adi Appayya, Kuppayya, Pattabhiramaiah (Javali fame).
There is a need to rewrite the history and correct their names, upon which we will be able to pay them due respects which they deserved unconditionally.
Chintalapalli Somashekar
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
A few more exceptions:-Somashekar wrote:... He belongs to Mulukanadu Telugu Bramhin sect and to keep the name as "Iyer" is not a known practice in this sect ...
"Mulukanadu Brahmins - Carnatic Musicians:-
Puducheri Rangaswamy Iyer
Alathur Sivasubramania Iyer - of Alathur Brothers fame. A Sangeetha Kalanidhi
Alathur Venkatesa Iyer - Sivasubramania Iyer's father and the guru of Alathur Brothers
T. K. Jayarama Iyer - A Sangeetha Kalanidhi"
(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mu ... u_Brahmins)
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
I think that way back when, there was a tradition to call all smArta South Indian brahmins (regardless of their linguistic region of origin) as 'Iyers' - a tradition that continued/persisted in tamizhnAD. I think that the 'Iyers' from Kerala are the ones that are purely Saivaite!
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
hi,mulakanaadu brahmins wont kept IYER.In tamilnaadu they add 'R' as bahuvachanam to show the respect to the elders.so we should mean it as IYERS.In actual iyers sect we find tanjure iyers,palakkad iyers,devarayasamudra iyers,brihaccharana iyers etc.but tyagaraja, pallavi seshaiah etc.not belongs to these type of iyers.They are IYYAS,thats all.For further reading i suggest to read MULAKANAADU BRAHMANARU in kannada by Dr.T.V.Venkatachala shastry,a great scholar...... Shreekantham nagendra shastry.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Of course, Mulakanadu Brahmins do not use the surname Iyer, as a rule.
But among the several Mulakanadu Brahmin families settled in Tamil Nadu, in a few families the subsequent generations who are born in Tamil Nadu have opted for the surname Iyer. For example, among musicians, Puducheri Rangaswamy Iyer, Alathur Sivasubramania Iyer, T. K. Jayarama Iyer have opted for the surname 'Iyer'. I know a few Mulakanadu Brahmin families settled in Tamil Nadu, who are using the surname 'Iyer'! Of course, these are exceptions.
We come across other surnames also, like Sarma, Sastry, Rao, being used by Mulakanadu Brahmins. And many of them settled in Karnataka use the surname 'Ayya'.
What was the original surname used by them before they started leaving 'Mulakanadu'?
But among the several Mulakanadu Brahmin families settled in Tamil Nadu, in a few families the subsequent generations who are born in Tamil Nadu have opted for the surname Iyer. For example, among musicians, Puducheri Rangaswamy Iyer, Alathur Sivasubramania Iyer, T. K. Jayarama Iyer have opted for the surname 'Iyer'. I know a few Mulakanadu Brahmin families settled in Tamil Nadu, who are using the surname 'Iyer'! Of course, these are exceptions.
We come across other surnames also, like Sarma, Sastry, Rao, being used by Mulakanadu Brahmins. And many of them settled in Karnataka use the surname 'Ayya'.
What was the original surname used by them before they started leaving 'Mulakanadu'?
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Many indian saivite brahmin immigrants, when they get US citizenship, change their last name to Iyer.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Not only in karnataka, in andhra also they use 'iyya'.there are somany families like balakuntla, kaakarla,paanyam etc.in mulakanaadu.some families settlled in tamilnaadu,they also keep the same,but from the local people they are being addressed as IYYERS.with this influence some are keeping tamil names also.In Tyagaraja's case his name is tyagabrhmam only, but then he was called as Tyagarajayya;Tyagayya by his contemporaries ;this has been written by my greatgrandfather mysore asthana vidwan late chintalapalli venkata rao,as told by his guru mysore sadashiva rao
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Great!
We have two evidences:-
1. A document mentioning the name 'Tyagabrahma Iyer', signed by Shri Tyagabrahma Iyer himself, witnessed by four people known to him (two of them lived in the same street), and recorded by an official.
2. A reported recorded hearsay.
(Of course, with due respects to all concerned.)
Whether I like it or not, Shri Tyagabrahma Iyer called himself as an 'Iyer', as evidenced by a document signed by himself and witnessed by others. There is nothing more to add on this subject.
We have two evidences:-
1. A document mentioning the name 'Tyagabrahma Iyer', signed by Shri Tyagabrahma Iyer himself, witnessed by four people known to him (two of them lived in the same street), and recorded by an official.
2. A reported recorded hearsay.
(Of course, with due respects to all concerned.)
Whether I like it or not, Shri Tyagabrahma Iyer called himself as an 'Iyer', as evidenced by a document signed by himself and witnessed by others. There is nothing more to add on this subject.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
please don't impose us saying,'there is nothing to add'.there should not be a BHARATHAVAAKYAM like this.The reality is, we have changed so many vaaggeyakaara's name from IYYA to IYYER.In your documentation also there is TYAGABRAHMAM in TELUGU.For your IYYER concept,we can call this process as tamilization. we can notice several examples in this process.Natta/naata will become nattai. In somany compositions tamilisation has given wrong pronounciations. parihaasakama is the original sahitya;we are using pariyaachakamaa{vanaspathi].so we dont have any right to change the names&saahityas of others.please read B.G.L.Swamy's 'Tamilu Thalegala Naduve,' regarding this very topic. This is like assuming Dr Manmohan Singh's name as Dr Manmohan Singh IYYER pun apart, it is re-iterated that none of us have no business to alter, add prefix. suffix or distort the names and works of any one . That will be nothing short of Sacrilege ! !.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
The very premise of this document is suspect. TyagarAja lived in times when paper was easily available and was being used for most administrative work. VenkaTaramana bhAgavatar wrote out the nauka caritram in notation, in a paper codex.
We know for a fact that tyAgarAja himself was using a handwritten copy of the pOtana bhAgavataM, and I remember that the year and makers' watermark on the paper had been identified.
Also, we only have access in this picture to the transcript of the palm leaf manuscript, and not the palm leaf itself. If there were a better picture of the palm leaf itself, it would be available for all of us to read.
We know for a fact that tyAgarAja himself was using a handwritten copy of the pOtana bhAgavataM, and I remember that the year and makers' watermark on the paper had been identified.
Also, we only have access in this picture to the transcript of the palm leaf manuscript, and not the palm leaf itself. If there were a better picture of the palm leaf itself, it would be available for all of us to read.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
Dear Keerthi, I totally accept your ideas and opinion on this topic. I feel it is a disease engulfed on us to step into bees hornet when it is totally uncalled for. As i know, the paper was available during Thyagaraja Swamy's period. With a proven history of his great quantum of creations and documentation, Thyagaraja would not have used palm leaf. So one can easily question the authenticity of this palm leaf, supposed to have been created.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
>I feel it is a disease engulfed on us to step into bees hornet when it is totally uncalled for.
Just curious. Why is Ayya vs Iyer just a sensitive topic to escalate it to the level of 'engulfing in a disease' etc.? It has been a healthy debate so far which is great but we do not have to get all twisted up on this.
In fact I would like to know more along the lines of what Keerthi is talking about ( T using a water marked paper copy of treatises etc. ). We also hear about some originals being safeguarded by some families in Madurai. While I do not fully understand such secrecy in this day and age, I respect that but if somehow they can be persuaded to digitize them, they are doing themselves a favor. Those paper copies are not going to last forever.
Just curious. Why is Ayya vs Iyer just a sensitive topic to escalate it to the level of 'engulfing in a disease' etc.? It has been a healthy debate so far which is great but we do not have to get all twisted up on this.
In fact I would like to know more along the lines of what Keerthi is talking about ( T using a water marked paper copy of treatises etc. ). We also hear about some originals being safeguarded by some families in Madurai. While I do not fully understand such secrecy in this day and age, I respect that but if somehow they can be persuaded to digitize them, they are doing themselves a favor. Those paper copies are not going to last forever.
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
vasanthakokilam wrote:It has been a healthy debate so far which is great but we do not have to get all twisted up on this ...
Thanks! Yes, there is no need for emotional outbursts. There is nothing personal here - we are just discussing a subject.
And these discussions do not in any way aim at disrespecting anyone. Sri Tyagabrahmam was born and brought up in Tamil Nadu. He was living among Tamil Brahmin crowd. Like a few of my Mulakanadu family friends in Tamil Nadu who are using the surname 'Iyer' for two/three generations, Sri Tyagabrahmam too might have opted to use this surname. In post #19 I had mentioned the names of Mulakanadu Brahmin musicians who have willingly taken the 'Iyer' surname. We have also seen that a number of Mulakanadu Brahmins who have opted to use the surnames of fellow Brahmins of those places where they have decided to settle down. We are all equally attached to Sri Tyagabrahmam and admire him for his contribution to CM.
keerthi wrote:TyagarAja lived in times when paper was easily available and was being used for most administrative work. VenkaTaramana bhAgavatar wrote out the nauka caritram in notation, in a paper codex ... ...
That was the same doubt I had at the beginning!
Though paper was used extensively by general public and in many government departments of princely states, the land records were continued to be maintained in palm leaves by several princely states even upto 1896. Check http://www.princelystates.com/ArchivedF ... 3-05.shtml
where three images of cadjan (palm leaf) fiscal documents of Cochin State are shown. These palm leaf land documents bear signatures inscribed on 9.6.1890, 21.7.1885, and 9.1.1883!
MODS: If you feel that we have had enough, you may consider closing this thread!
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Re: TYAGABRAHMA IYER aka TYAGARAJA
I know of no bee that has ever taken the surname hornet
But something wise was once said about roses, names and smells
But something wise was once said about roses, names and smells
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Re: Tyagaraja
I just bumped into this interesting bit of information (not sure if this was posted elsewhere in our forum before)
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sci ... age_id=861
"Of Interest: This image ( of Mercury ), taken with the Narrow Angle Camera (NAC), gives us a stunning high-resolution view of Tyagaraja crater. The crater was named for Kakarla Tyagabrahmam, colloquially known as Tyāgarājar, the 18th century composer of Carnatic music or classical South Indian music. "
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sci ... age_id=861
"Of Interest: This image ( of Mercury ), taken with the Narrow Angle Camera (NAC), gives us a stunning high-resolution view of Tyagaraja crater. The crater was named for Kakarla Tyagabrahmam, colloquially known as Tyāgarājar, the 18th century composer of Carnatic music or classical South Indian music. "
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
And let's not forget the bhakti of this devotee towards Tyagabrahmam: http://www.thehindu.com/2001/07/20/stories/0920070f.htm.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
Some more interesting information about the ancestors of Sri tyAgarAja -
http://tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article22.xml
http://tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article22.xml
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
Govindan Sir,
SubbarAma dIkSitar too has said things similar to Prof. Nagaswamy's article, and identifies this GirirAja Kavi with tyAgarAja's grandfather [he doesn't say paternal or maternal]. He also gives in notation a vairAgya padam in kAmbhOji ''mAyA nI vanchana", with the girirAjEndra signature.
I remember an article by Prof Raghavan distinguishing a girirAja-brahmam who was a scholar in Tulaja's [?] court; from this girirAja kavi, who lived in tiruvArUr, and composed many padas and was in Shahaji's [and Sarabhoji I's] court.
I am unable to locate the article, but am inclined to believe that there were these 2 scholars - girirAja kavi, of tiruvArur the composer of padas and bhAvata mELa nirUpaNams of the lOhita gotra; and tyAgarAja's ancestor girirAjabrahmam of the atrEya gotra[?] and the family title [iNTi pEru] kAkarla. There seems to have been a tradition of affixing brahmam to the names - as recorded by walajapet V. Bhagavatar in his verse on tyAgarAja [in the set with vyAso naigama-carcaya etc].
As for the veiled reference to an ancestor in the bangALa song - which wasn't tyAgarAja's first composition anyway; there is little substance to that story, as can be seen if we look at this song from tIrthanArAyaNa yati's KLT, and its preceding slOka; it is very clear how every single phase in the bangALa song is either a paraphrase or a borrowing from the song jaya jaya swAmin.
So, the 'reference' to a grandparent - maternal or paternal, must be a coincidence.
SubbarAma dIkSitar too has said things similar to Prof. Nagaswamy's article, and identifies this GirirAja Kavi with tyAgarAja's grandfather [he doesn't say paternal or maternal]. He also gives in notation a vairAgya padam in kAmbhOji ''mAyA nI vanchana", with the girirAjEndra signature.
I remember an article by Prof Raghavan distinguishing a girirAja-brahmam who was a scholar in Tulaja's [?] court; from this girirAja kavi, who lived in tiruvArUr, and composed many padas and was in Shahaji's [and Sarabhoji I's] court.
I am unable to locate the article, but am inclined to believe that there were these 2 scholars - girirAja kavi, of tiruvArur the composer of padas and bhAvata mELa nirUpaNams of the lOhita gotra; and tyAgarAja's ancestor girirAjabrahmam of the atrEya gotra[?] and the family title [iNTi pEru] kAkarla. There seems to have been a tradition of affixing brahmam to the names - as recorded by walajapet V. Bhagavatar in his verse on tyAgarAja [in the set with vyAso naigama-carcaya etc].
As for the veiled reference to an ancestor in the bangALa song - which wasn't tyAgarAja's first composition anyway; there is little substance to that story, as can be seen if we look at this song from tIrthanArAyaNa yati's KLT, and its preceding slOka; it is very clear how every single phase in the bangALa song is either a paraphrase or a borrowing from the song jaya jaya swAmin.
So, the 'reference' to a grandparent - maternal or paternal, must be a coincidence.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
keerthi,
This person 'Nagaswami' seems to be some research scholar - ASI related? At least that is what I guess from the type of articles written by him as listed in the website.
I fully concur with your view points - even the mention of 'girirAja sutA tanaya' is far fetched - because it is addressed to Lord gaNESa.
Thanks for clarifications.
This person 'Nagaswami' seems to be some research scholar - ASI related? At least that is what I guess from the type of articles written by him as listed in the website.
I fully concur with your view points - even the mention of 'girirAja sutA tanaya' is far fetched - because it is addressed to Lord gaNESa.
Thanks for clarifications.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
In the spirit of squabbling over names, tIrtha, bhArati, etc. are aSrama nAmas and this saint's name is nArAyaNa tIrtha.keerthi wrote: tIrthanArAyaNa yati
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
Sri G S Mani said in a recent lec-dem that Sri Thyagaraja adopted the name Nadabrahmananda when he took sanyas in the last days of his life. Thus it is wrong to call the festivities on Bahula panchami day Thyagaraja Aradhana.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
The speaker in the recent lecture demo on Nauka Charitham is Sri. R. Nagaswamy (singing by Gayathri Girish with B V Raghavenda Rao and Ram Kumar R). May be it is the same gentleman referred to in this thread.
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24906
(Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FqwilrGI30 )
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24906
(Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FqwilrGI30 )
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
Yes, it is the same person.vasanthakokilam wrote:The speaker in the recent lecture demo on Nauka Charitham is Sri. R. Nagaswamy (singing by Gayathri Girish with B V Raghavenda Rao and Ram Kumar R). May be it is the same gentleman referred to in this thread.
At the above-referenced lec-dem, Dr. Nagaswamy gave the attendees a copy of an article he had written which had been published quite a while back in The Hindu. The article is titled Fresh Light on Tyagaraja's Ancestry and makes for interesting reading.
Giriraja Kavi's brother was Venkata Kavi. Sri V Narayanaswami Iyer (note the last name or caste identifier), a descendant of Venkata Kavi, showed Dr Nagaswamy some documents from which Dr Nagaswamy derived his conclusions on Sri Tyagaraja's ancestry.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
That is the same article that Sri VGovindan shared. I can only accept this identification of Giriraja Kavi with TyAgaraja's ancestor [and the ostensible reference in the bangAla], if we can all agree that nArAyaNa tIrtha anticipated that tyAgarAja would take birth in the dauhitra lineage of a certain GirirAja kavi, Tanjore court poet; and cryptically embedded this nostradamic prediction in his song on 'GaNesa jaya jaya swAmin'.At the above-referenced lec-dem, Dr. Nagaswamy gave the attendees a copy of an article he had written which had been published quite a while back in The Hindu. The article is titled Fresh Light on Tyagaraja's Ancestry and makes for interesting reading.
Giriraja Kavi's brother was Venkata Kavi. Sri V Narayanaswami Iyer (note the last name or caste identifier), a descendant of Venkata Kavi, showed Dr Nagaswamy some documents from which Dr Nagaswamy derived his conclusions on Sri Tyagaraja's ancestry.
DO tell me what the consensus is. If it is in favour of NT being a prescient Nostradamous encoder, I volunteer to read the entire KrishanlIlAtarangini carefully, and then enrich the history of carnatic music, by performing a fine-toothed combing of any such hidden gems that nArayaNa tIrtha may have encoded about dIkSitar and Papanasam Sivan and Sri Spencer Venugopal.
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
This is a most interesting thread
One thing that appeared rather strange to me was that the property sale happened in the month of Margazhi which is usually not considered the right time to make any big purchases/events etc., - those days they believed Shastras even more so how come this deal happened in this month??
One thing that appeared rather strange to me was that the property sale happened in the month of Margazhi which is usually not considered the right time to make any big purchases/events etc., - those days they believed Shastras even more so how come this deal happened in this month??
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Re: Tyagabrahmam
Tyagaraja has used 'Hemachala Chapa' in his Kalyani krithi Isa Pahimam. Perhaps he borrowed it from the same shloka of Sri Narayana Teerthar.keerthi wrote: As for the veiled reference to an ancestor in the bangALa song - which wasn't tyAgarAja's first composition anyway; there is little substance to that story, as can be seen if we look at this song from tIrthanArAyaNa yati's KLT, and its preceding slOka; it is very clear how every single phase in the bangALa song is either a paraphrase or a borrowing from the song jaya jaya swAmin.