Interesting Articles

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 30 Apr 2010, 21:13

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/04/30/stor ... 890300.htm

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 17 May 2010, 16:01

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranaga ... atyam.html

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 04 Jun 2010, 11:38

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... s%3Disch:1

some of the karanas in the middle picture are very difficult

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 09 Jun 2010, 04:06

http://www.carnaticdarbar.com/interview ... _murle.asp
This is an interview of Smt.Priya Murle that i did a year ago..! Do not miss the video links at the end.. Sorry for posting it so late.. I didn't know of rasikas.org then..!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 09 Jun 2010, 09:46

Nice article Madhan. Please post more of your work here. With so many different websites and places to publish, sometimes i dont know where to look for an article.

p.s. "Would you like tell anything to young dancers.."

American lingo showing up in English writing. I am glad it is not like would you like tell anything like to young dancers...

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 09 Jun 2010, 09:51

ksl wrote: p.s. "Would you like tell anything to young dancers.." American lingo showing up in English writing. I am glad it is not like would you like tell anything like to young dancers...

Its a typo.. I never knew of American lingo a year ago.. It must have been "Would you like to tell anything.."

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 09 Jun 2010, 10:15

aaahh...gotcha!

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 16 Jun 2010, 02:15

Its quite an old one.. some of u might have read it already.. http://www.fritjofcapra.net/shiva.html

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 27 Jul 2010, 03:03

http://www.narthaki.com/hplinks/ifa4.html
grants for research in dance..if someone missed it. Last date is Aug 2 2010

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 28 Jul 2010, 12:28

http://bharathanatya.net/services.htm reminds of menu card in hotels..!! ;(

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Jul 2010, 13:07

Yes, it does --- but is it a bad thing to be up front and detailed about charges and fees? Perhaps a lot of misunderstandings can be avoided.

A quick look, though, suggests that dance is for the rich!

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 28 Jul 2010, 18:36

$75,000 US Dollars seems reasonable for an arangetram in Bangalore |(

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 28 Jul 2010, 19:27

nidhi cAla sukhamE!

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 28 Jul 2010, 21:01

Good to be upfront, yes. Although... perhaps I missed it, but nowhere on Smt. Jaya's site did I find mention of her Guru or details of her training. Problem.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 29 Jul 2010, 11:18

@ Madhana: That page is priceless! Did u notice consultancy charges on that page?!!

that was the last thing i was expecting on a dance guru website. Dance consultancy...only if our nattuvanars knew of this business model, they would be filthy rich!

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 29 Jul 2010, 11:51

exactly.. its the last thing i wud expect a guru to charge me for.. i know a lot of gurus who teach items to deserving students from other skools for free.. i have personally talked to some gurus on some doubts and they were so willing to share their knowledge.. i dont understand whats the point in charging for consultation! its good to be upfront.. but this page scares me away! anyone from an Indian middle class family will give up the thought of learning bnatyam if they see this page!! and she seems to be targetting the NRIs more than the local pple! apparently, same is the case with a skool in chennai tht supposedly teaches "authentic", "original" bharathanatyam.. just that the rates are not on their website but they charge arnd 1500 USD for a varnam..!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 29 Jul 2010, 20:05

@ Madhan: I didnt know that. $1500 for a varnam huh? wow!! next time i have an argument with you know who, this info will be of tremendous help

Last week someone was complaining to me about how a certain old guru had increased the price to about $25/hour. That seems very reasonable in hte face of these newborns.

@ Nick: It is not as simple as being upfront. In India, we do not like to measure knowledge in terms of money. It is considered inferior in character to quote a price for knowledge. As soon as you do that, your primary goal seems to become the money and the learning a bi-product of ahving paid that much money. There was a time when mangudi used to travel all through chennai in a bicycle from 7 am, taking classes of girls whose parents/sometimes even the girls were reluctant to let them dance, forget paying for them. Now all middle class dads and moms are targets for milking money out of. No one cares when our famous schools quote exorbitant prices for kindergarden. But arts is not some british imposed education system that is measurable in terms of outcome. Learning a varnam doesnt mean passing 10th grade and an arangetram doesnt mean graduating high school. Imagine if VIshwamitra had told Dasharatha, taking your kids to a field trip with hands on exprience in combat is going to cost you $90000. You stop sounding like a guru and sound like a cheap businessman.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Jul 2010, 01:37

Point[s] very much taken.

I guess a lot of people have made businesses out of dance.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 02 Aug 2010, 22:09

The classical arts festival of the stuednts svanubhava is now being webcast live. I assume the times they mention are IST. Here is the details and links to the blog

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article548056.ece

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 05 Aug 2010, 21:29

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/dance/article542161.ece

I thought the pic was priceless although i couldnt identify a few in there.

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 06 Aug 2010, 00:12

ksl wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/arts/dance/article542161.ece

I thought the pic was priceless although i couldnt identify a few in there.

I could identify about half - bonus points to anyone who can name all the dancers!

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 06 Aug 2010, 00:58

Hah, I had that as my desktop background for the longest time!

From left to right,
Narasimhachari, Revathi Ramachandran, Lakshmi Viswanathan, Padma Subrahmanyam, Shanta Dhananjayan, Chitra Visweswaran, Krishnaveni Lakshmanan, Vasanthalakshmi, Sudharani Raghupathy, Dhananjayan

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 06 Aug 2010, 01:22

Kudos Umesh.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 06 Aug 2010, 01:42

Yes.. I think i have this picture still in my orkut profile.. i took from smt.revathy ramachandran's website though! Mr.Nick (tripmonk0 on youtube) has uploaded almost all the videos of this show!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 06 Aug 2010, 07:22

for Umesh from me too.
I just noticed none of the ladies is wearing a pajama costume and most of them are actually wearing sarees, not saree costumes (except for PS). Was it a saree trend or something?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 10 Aug 2010, 10:10

swanubhava pictures:

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article561144.ece

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 19 Aug 2010, 11:52

The IDA dance festival reports
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/dance/article566522.ece

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 21 Aug 2010, 23:59

kuchipudi and melattur; similarity in traditions
http://dspace.vidyanidhi.org.in:8080/ds ... -109-1.pdf

devadasi82 · Post by **devadasi82** » 22 Aug 2010, 07:51

ksl wrote:kuchipudi and melattur; similarity in traditions
http://dspace.vidyanidhi.org.in:8080/ds ... -109-1.pdf

This is a totally misleading and false article:
"...the dance style of Kuchipudi is strictly according to the instruction of Bharata in terms of various elements like Hastas (hand gestures), Karanas (body postures)...."

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 23 Aug 2010, 07:17

1. It's not an article. It's a thesis.
2. Seriously? Kuchipudi (Bhagavatams) is a dance-drama format. Kuchipudi has all 4 abhinayas, vachika, aharya, angika and sattvika. Kuchipudi has all the purvangas and poojais described by bharata's NS. They have solo nritta repertoire and group repertoire. Clearly in terms of percentage of NS covered by any Indian art, Bhagavatams(Kuchipudi/Yakshaganams/kathakali) score the highest since they have dance, drama and music which is the definition of natya.Kathakali even uses eyebrow movements and cheek movements described in NS. And you reject them why?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 23 Aug 2010, 07:51

Development of Sadir in the court of Raja Serfaroji-II (1798-1832) of Tanjore
http://dspace.vidyanidhi.org.in:8080/ds ... Prelim.pdf
http://dspace.vidyanidhi.org.in:8080/ds ... -073-1.pdf

please find the rest of the links here:
http://sangeethas.wordpress.com/2009/01 ... f-tanjore/

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Aug 2010, 08:55

Thanks KSL. Great material. I tried to read the writings on the walls of the big temple when I visited there but it wass hard. I did not realize it has information about the temple dancers and how much they were paid etc.

I wonder what songs they sang and danced to. They seemed to have sung both Sanskrit and Tamil songs, they had different singers for each. That is before the bifurcation of CM and HM ( I suppose ). Was their dance music different from the dance music of the North? Just some idle curiosities.

These theses are a great resource for the historical accounts they cover.

Thanks.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 23 Aug 2010, 10:21

I didnt read the whole thing, it's extensive. Long time back Chapter 3 interested me the most.

I think the bifurcation of HM and CM happened long before this thesis period. I am assuming you are talking of the sadir thesis. Swati Tirunal's period was 1813-1846 and we know by then the bifurcation was in place because he explicitly learned both and incorporated alien items like thillana into south Indian music which were non-existant before that. I think the music part of it is focus of Chapter 4 which is clearly didnt read

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Aug 2010, 11:12

KSL, I was loudly wondering about the dancers and their troupe that is mentioned in the inscriptions in the Big Temple in Tanjore. ( The thesis talks about that in the first chapter ). I agree that the subject matter of the thesis was from the 1800s onwards by which time the bifurcation had long happened.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 23 Aug 2010, 12:03

@VK: I just started reading the first chapter. Apologies for my digression

Will comment soon.

Meantime
I like this article on arangetrams. Very insightful observations on the purpose of it and its evolution thus.
http://www.boloji.com/dances/00106.htm

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Aug 2010, 12:16

ksl, your digressions are interesting observations. Please continue. Thanks. I will read those chapters when I have some quality time. Thanks.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 23 Aug 2010, 12:49

I do find the split in aryam paduvor and tamil paduvor interesting but i worry about putting them in the north indian, south indian label. My limited knowledge of hearing eminent tamil scholars about the definition of 'arya' seems to indicate it's more of a caste issue. Sanskrit was the prerogative of the learned and hence only brahmin families. Hence to learn and dance on sanskrit and sing in sanskrit probably meant an additional level of learning. Thus the bifurcation.

I would like to stress that 1 A.D-1200 A.D is also the period when Adi Shankaracharya was spreading the tenets of the vedas and hence a resurgence of sanskrit was to be found in all corners of India. Thus the language and poetry were finding their lost origins back together with the samgam period. So, i think its the language bifurcation and not the music bifurcation that is referred to. Technically speaking current day Hindustani music finds sparse sanskrit texts and relies more on prakrat and braj. So, i wouldnt extrapolate aryam paduvor to hindustani musicians.

devadasi82 · Post by **devadasi82** » 24 Aug 2010, 14:08

ksl wrote:2. Seriously?

Yes. Give a few references to any Kuchipudi dancers performing all the 108 karanas and using the all the mudras/hastas strictly according to NS.

Too much of wishful thinking!

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 24 Aug 2010, 22:10

http://www.frontline.in/stories/20100910271808100.htm

Tap into Tradition...

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 24 Aug 2010, 23:04

@ KSL... I read that thesis recently and it is quite a good read. It answered several of the questions I had (and of course created a few more).

For ex: now I know before TQ, Sabdams were in all Talas and Raagas because according to this document the nirupanas were written in just one raaga/Tala and nirupanas consisted of sabda that are pre cursors to Sabdams of TQ.

But "why TQ chose to compose sabdams only in Kambodhi and misra chapu is still a mistery to me". (raaga malika sabdams are recent changes. TQ originally wrote them in Kamboji).

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 24 Aug 2010, 23:10

@KSL... I enjoyed your articles on Narthaki very much. It was very well written. I have a small point to digress though. We do have flat foot tapping in Flamenco (I took flamenco classes for a few years). And one does pleae (however it's spelled) to get a good sound during this flat foot tapping. But unlike Bharatanatyam, where your pleae is with knees on the side (aremandi), in flamenco you just bend your knee to the front and hit the floor. But then again, we also wear high heels shoes with nails on the heels for the sound. So is it really flat foot if you are wearing high heels?

But that detail would not change any of your arguments. Again, good article.

kuchipudivaibhavam · Post by **kuchipudivaibhavam** » 24 Aug 2010, 23:21

@ Devadasi82,

We think ksl was saying that among today's existing dance traditions, Bhagavata Sampradayas (like Kuchipudi, Kathakali) cover the most percentage of NS. We can speak of Kuchipudi, and the Purvaranagavidhi is exactly as the same as described in NS: Indhradwajam, Kutilakam, the presence of a Sutradhari, Vidushaka etc., Pravesa Dhruvas are preserved intact in the form of "Pravesa Daruvus" (remember the famous Bhamane Sathyabhamane? entry in Bhama Kalapam

) She never said, they completely cover NS. None ever can, not nowadays!

No dance style we know of today in India incorporates all 108 karanas! Is there an Indian concept of dance, where karanas are the sole basis of judging the classicality of dance? The mainstay of Indian Natya is Abhinaya and Nritta together to help getting a message across, it is never nritta or karanas alone! Mere straddling up in poses doesn't help! Especially in a scenario like a Bhagavatham which is meant to be watched by people to whom Bhakti is being conveyed through those enactions! Imagine what would have happened in medieval times if Kuchipudi Bhagavatham artistes displayed a quick succession of karanas for the sake of appeasing NS hawks, while forsaking the scintillating effects of other forms of Abhinaya : Vachika, Ahaarya and Sattvika which were meant to hold the audience's attention (equally applies to Kathakali)! Hence, the low predominance of karanas in Kuchipudi in its evolution. Everything happens for a reason.

And yes, all the classical hastas/mudras are used in Kuchipudi as well. We cannot show you an example just for the sake of it, because we are sure no artiste would have thought of enacting ALL mudras out in a video, just because some people doubt the authenticity. We will give you an example though. Kuchipudi being a part of the Madhura Bhakti sampradaya, and Padams of Kshetrayya form a very important part of the Kuchipudi. Kshetrayya incidentally, comes from Movva which is 10km from Kuchipudi village. So you can understand the geo-cultural importance. In Kuchipudi, padams are enacted to in a seated manner. Some of the last artistes of pre-independence royal courts in Andhra, were documented in enacting Padams as they learnt from their Natyacharyas who were Bhagavthulu from Kuchipudi.

The single line "Makkuva Teerchara Muvva Gopala", ( "Come indulge me in union, Oh Movva Gopala), was expounded for nine hours by Jeevaratnamma, an Asthana Narthaki of the Bobbili Samsthanam if North Andhra, without repeating a single gesture, her Guru being Bhagavathula Vissayya, a noted Kuchipudi exponent of late 1800s!! Even in basic items, you must have noticed, a line in a Kuchipudi song is usually repeated 2 - 3 times, and each time the dancer portrays the abhinaya differently (possible in part to Kuchipudi being vakyartha pradhanya).

Many such examples abound. Its just that they aren't as readily available on net (from where you glean your information). They are buried in theses done in Universities, like the one ksl dug out. The reasons for this are many and variegated.

We can talk to a well-informed person, we can elucidate to a little-informed person, we can educate a non-informed person, but a misinformed person is a lost cause. We hope you aren't one the last mentioned.

@ksl, also among them, you can find a thesis by Dr. Anuradha Jonnalagadda (noted academician of Kuchipudi today) also done under Bharata Kala Prapoorna Dr. Nataraja Ramakrishna (who incase you didnt know, is the person who single handedly reconstructed Andhra Natyam, Perini Sivatandavam and other dance forms), if you are interested.

Best Regards,
Kuchipudi Vaibhavam

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 25 Aug 2010, 09:08

ganeshpv wrote:@KSL... I enjoyed your articles on Narthaki very much. It was very well written. I have a small point to digress though. We do have flat foot tapping in Flamenco (I took flamenco classes for a few years). And one does pleae (however it's spelled) to get a good sound during this flat foot tapping. But unlike Bharatanatyam, where your pleae is with knees on the side (aremandi), in flamenco you just bend your knee to the front and hit the floor. But then again, we also wear high heels shoes with nails on the heels for the sound. So is it really flat foot if you are wearing high heels?

But that detail would not change any of your arguments. Again, good article.

Thanks. I did mention that kathak and flemenco do tap their feet. But that is not their equilibrium position or the most repeated gesture/most emphasized gesture. I also mentioned about heels. I also mentioned that flat hitting is different from a flat fleeting touch of the ground. By hitting i meant hitting and staying put. For that kind of an impact i thought a bent knee was essential. A bent knee that stays bent like in bharatanatyam and odissi and not the kind where u bounce because u bend and the next moment u are up straight because the flat hit is not emphasized or doesnt remain put.

I am bad with writing concise things. Apologies

ganeshpv wrote:@ KSL... I read that thesis recently and it is quite a good read. It answered several of the questions I had (and of course created a few more).

For ex: now I know before TQ, Sabdams were in all Talas and Raagas because according to this document the nirupanas were written in just one raaga/Tala and nirupanas consisted of sabda that are pre cursors to Sabdams of TQ.

But "why TQ chose to compose sabdams only in Kambodhi and misra chapu is still a mistery to me". (raaga malika sabdams are recent changes. TQ originally wrote them in Kamboji).

TQ did a lot of strange things that i don't completely understand. Maybe someone can explain. my conjecture for the reason it was kept at kambodhi was because by TQ's time the conductor, nattuvanar used to sing. Sabdam as in their teaching format was the first abhinaya item. So they probably wanted to keep it in one raga and chapu tala so it was consistent in ease of dancing to? I am just thinking loud.

The thing is it is strange when people quote simple inceidental decisions taken by some historic dancers and make it sound like it was all destined to be that divine way. Like balasaraswati's this quote about margam as introduced by TQ is overrated and very over used,

"The Bharatanatyam recital is structured like a Great Temple. We enter through the Gopuram (outer hall) of Alarippu, cross the Ardha mantapam (half-way hall) of Jatiswaram, then the Mantapa (great hall) of Sabdam, and enter the holy precinct of the deity in the Varnam. This is the place, the space that gives the dancer expansive scope to revel in the rhythm, moods and music of the dance. The Varnam is the perpetuity which gives ever-expanding room to the dancer to delight in her self-fulfillment, by providing the fullest scope to her own creativity as well as to the tradition of the art. The Padam follows. In dancing to the Padam one experiences the containment, cool and quiet of entering the sanctum from its external precinct. The expanse and brilliance of the outer corridors disappear in the dark inner sanctum; and the rhythmic virtuosities of the Varnam yield to the soul-stirring music and abhinaya of the Padam. Dancing to the Padam is akin to the juncture when the cascading lights of worship are withdrawn and the drum beats die down to the simple and solemn chanting of scared verses in the closeness of God. Then, the Tillana breaks into movement like the final burning of camphor accompanied by a measure of din and bustle. In conclusion, the devotee takes to his heart the God he has so far glorified outside; and the dancer completes the traditional order by dancing to a simple devotional verse"

The fact is tillana was not introduced in south indian classical music until Swati Tirunals period. hence there is no way that it would ahve seeped into 'traditional' margam format until 18-19th century. balasaraswati, like every other artist, had a few philospohical extrapolations based on what she was taught. People just blindly repeat these things because as soon as something is spiritual, they are eager to be close to it and thus be of a more 'highly' form without using their own reasoning.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:We think ksl was saying that among today's existing dance traditions, Bhagavata Sampradayas (like Kuchipudi, Kathakali) cover the most percentage of NS.

At least someone reads what i write.

I have a request though. I know you like to spread the 'greatness that is kuchipudi and related andhra styles of dancing'. Thats probably why ur team is named kuchipudi vaibhavam. I find the repeated gentle suggestions of greatness of kuchipudi a little annoying. I get that u think Kuchipudi is great and i ahve no problems with it. You just dont have to say it in each and every post. I get what u want me to get. I am telugu too. doesnt mean i write about how great telugu people are in each and every post. No propagandas please. No matter how subtle or how atrocious. I dont trust intentions when there is propaganda involved. Its just me. If other people find your propaganda endearing, please carry on.

kuchipudivaibhavam · Post by **kuchipudivaibhavam** » 25 Aug 2010, 10:20

I know you like to spread the 'greatness that is kuchipudi and related andhra styles of dancing'. Thats probably why ur team is named kuchipudi vaibhavam. I find the repeated gentle suggestions of greatness of kuchipudi a little annoying. I get that u think Kuchipudi is great and i ahve no problems with it. You just dont have to say it in each and every post. I get what u want me to get. I am telugu too. doesnt mean i write about how great telugu people are in each and every post. No propagandas please. No matter how subtle or how atrocious. I dont trust intentions when there is propaganda involved. Its just me. If other people find your propaganda endearing, please carry on.

Okay, let us call your tomfoolery and moral heckling out once and for all. We have never "hinted" at the greatness of Kuchipudi. We just write facts, and clear misconceptions about the dance form which we research upon. We have nowehere, said Kuchipudi is the ultimate dance form or anything to that extent. If we state facts about Kuchipudi, and you feel that we are "gently" showing off the greatness of it, we really can't help things there apart from attributing it to an unexplained insecurity on your part. We understand that whenever someone talks with an authority on a certain dance form, the novices do feel a bit of resentment. We don't blame you for that.

And we take severe umbrage to your use of the word "propaganda". Propaganda constitutes the unqualified opinion you flaunt like the following:

Infact, read this article
http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art279.html

to see how not hitting flat on the floor and overusing poses, jumps, walks and other heel-toe based movements are so not classical and more characteristic of folk, kuchipudi and western. We are the only ones who use a unique footwork, as in Bharatanatyam and Odissi.

We were shocked to see you define what is classical or not, based on adavus (which are not even mentioned in the NS), and thereby club Kuchipudi with folk and western (citing as source your own article!!)!! Where has Bharata said that "overusing glances/walks etc." is "so not classical". Did he say that underusing them is classical? Also, fro m where have you got the idea that they are "over-used" in Kuchipudi? We would love to hear you deconstruct this random opinion with official and substantiated sources. First of all, you are not trained in any dance form except BN, and you pass off judgement on every dance form!! This is the "gentle propaganda" not ours. So descened from your fake moral high ground. The difference between you and Devadasi is she has the guts to go right out, while you indulge in the "gentle propaganda" as you put it. In that sense, everything written on this forum can be termed propaganda. Infact, the highest form of gentle propaganda is your narthaki article, where the ending subtext makes it very clear. So desist from calling us "propagandists" hypocritically. Writing an article on Narthaki does not make any of us experts on all dance forms. We are all learners, and should bear that in mind before passing out random advice

To keep the propaganda of such miscreants at bay from influencing lay public, we correct them. So little wonder that you didn't like it. Countering negative propaganda with facts is not called propaganda. We understand that you do not like to be corrected and/or see anything debated or elucidated upon apart from BN, but really this is carrying it too much!

And we wonder how you have inherently assumed that we are all Telugus writing on Kuchipudi, when that is not the case. Desist from such base and immature cultural geo-tagging, especially in an age when all Indian dance forms are going global. Kuchipudi has been replenished by several items written in Tanjore courts, and Bharanatayam's repertoire consists of many Telugu item; it has an entire Mysore baani. Nowhere, have we praised or boasted of telugu or Telugu people. All dance forms that have emanated from South India, could not have been the way they are, if not for influences from all over. Get the notion out of your head that BN belongs to TN and Kuchipudi belongs to Andhra etc. So whether you are a Telugu or not is irrelevant and immaterial to us.

So we guess its more a question you have to pose to yourself: "Why do I find facts which are correct about Kuchipudi as stated by Kuchipudi Vaibhavam annoying?". Good luck with that!
Oh, and also, as already requested kindly desist from flaunting unwarranted opinions!

Best Regards,
Kuchipudi Vaibhavam

kuchipudivaibhavam · Post by **kuchipudivaibhavam** » 25 Aug 2010, 10:40

You know what, just forget it.

We have had enough of dealing with people like you and Devadasi. You win! Go ahead and proclaim anything you like as facts, and freely condemn others who actually give documented facts as "propagandists with dubious intentions". You win in one upmanship. All the best!

Best Regards,
Kuchipudi Vaibhavam

sathirdance · Post by **sathirdance** » 26 Aug 2010, 00:07

ksl wrote:TQ did a lot of strange things that i don't completely understand. Maybe someone can explain. my conjecture for the reason it was kept at kambodhi was because by TQ's time the conductor, nattuvanar used to sing. Sabdam as in their teaching format was the first abhinaya item. So they probably wanted to keep it in one raga and chapu tala so it was consistent in ease of dancing to? I am just thinking loud.

As was told to me by Tanjavur KP Kittappa Pillai only a fraction of the Tanjavur Quartet compositions are published. To bring to light the compositions and publish them was a big task and he said I do not have the funds for that.

If they could compose other dance items in different raga's and talaâ€™s, then would have very well done the same for the sabdams. If they needed it easy because they conducted and sang the sabdams then they would have set the varnams also only to one raga/tala.
Only some of the sabdams are published. Many of the sabdams written by the TQ donâ€™t have the raga/tala mentioned. And some of the TQ sabdams we use now were set to Kambodhi by Meenakshi Sundaram Pillai.

I have seen quite a few of the yet unpublished compositions. Sabdams (without raga/tala mentioned), jathiswarams (in many different raga/tala), padavarnams, ragamalika sahityams and other unknown repertoire.
What is published now is not enough for us to come to a conclusion.

Some of the Tanjavur family members now work at publishing more work of the Tanjavur Quartet.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Aug 2010, 07:35

Whatever the reason for chosing kAmbhOji as the rAga for Sabdams may be, subsequent composers of rAgamAlika Sabdams always used kAmbhOji as the first rAga (and I have to say that I find the initial 'tAtaiyA tai tattatAm' in kAmbhOji very thrilling to hear), until Madurai Sri Krishnan's dEvi tAyE which eschews kAmbhOji completely. Are there other such examples?

smala · Post by **smala** » 26 Aug 2010, 08:57

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:You know what, just forget it.

We have had enough of dealing with people like you and Devadasi. You win! Go ahead and proclaim anything you like as facts, and freely condemn others who actually give documented facts as "propagandists with dubious intentions". You win in one upmanship. All the best!

Best Regards,
Kuchipudi Vaibhavam

I hope KV stays and continues to participate and contribute to this forum. You have brought in valuable points with clarity and objectivity.

No one "wins" or owns anything on this forum.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 26 Aug 2010, 10:24

hindu reviews young dancers like sathvika

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/dance/article582102.ece

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 26 Aug 2010, 11:53

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote: We have nowehere, said Kuchipudi is the ultimate dance form or anything to that extent. If we state facts about Kuchipudi, and you feel that we are "gently" showing off the greatness of it, we really can't help things there apart from attributing it to an unexplained insecurity on your part. We understand that whenever someone talks with an authority on a certain dance form, the novices do feel a bit of resentment. We don't blame you for that.

I said what i felt from all your activities. Its my personal opinion. As i said, it was a request. If you feel you are right in what you are doing, as i said to you in your personal message to me on facebook to promote something or the other, please feel free to follow your gut. I always respect that and so does anyone who follows their gut.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:We were shocked to see you define what is classical or not, based on adavus

As i clarified in narthaki, I am dealing with Bharatnatyam as a desi sadir. I didnt say they were classical. i said these classical footworks are unique in India. Every other footwork is common in folk and western footwork. No superiority implied. The only implication is uniqueness to be found in these two styles of dance. I dont take the natya Shastra route. Because i dont see how kuchipudi is less based on NS than bharatanatyam. In fact as i said, it is more closer to spirit of NS in terms of its dance drama format. which u were really pleased to hear from me. What i termed as classical was the definition implied by govt. of india.

You were 'shocked' that kuchipudi is closer to folk movements? Why? Do u think being closer to folk movements is embarrassing? I dont think so. I just think its a very different flavour because Kuchipudi is performed for the public.Like kathak. UNlike BN and Odissi which were performed in a temple. Please read the thesis on kuchipudi and melattur to see why kuchipudi adopted and transitioned into more items from folklore and grew artistically as it was presented to the general public vs. melattur which stuck to its bhagavatam roots because it was ritualistic and not artistic in its evolution. Who is to say that ritualistic traditions which lead to no change from origins are morally superior or inferior to an art that evolves as the public reception evolves? I am not propaganda because i dont preach that people as audience are inferior/superior to god as audience. Every way has its advantages and disadvantages and a place in the society. Ritualistic dance and dance for the public have very different grwoth processes and very different evolution. Its the topic of my new article. Please bear with me until then or i will be out of material

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:First of all, you are not trained in any dance form except BN

I am trained in Kuchipudi for 7 years, infact in Mysore style of kuchipudi. My guru was from Dharwad.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:The difference between you and Devadasi is she has the guts to go right out, while you indulge in the "gentle propaganda" as you put it.

Yes. My propaganda is against any institutional propaganda. And it is not gentle at all. Thats why i called u out even though u only talk about kuchipudi facts and participate in this forum whenever someone writes something against kuchipudi.

As i said, i get it that thats what ur group is constituted for but i personally dont prefer it.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:Where has Bharata said that "overusing glances/walks etc." is "so not classical". Did he say that underusing them is classical? Also, fro m where have you got the idea that they are "over-used" in Kuchipudi? We would love to hear you deconstruct this random opinion with official and substantiated sources.

I didnt term them less classical. I termed them not unique to Indian classical as they exist in every other dance form in the world. Did i say in that article that i dont consider kathak, kuchipudi, kathakali, manipuri classical?
I said their footwork is not unique to Indian classical dancing. Walks are used in ballroom dancing, sideways glances is used in movie dancing. What is not used in them is a straight glance/address and hitting the floor in aramandi.I thought i was careful in what i was saying because i did not want to come off as a propaganda-person but as a common sense person. Please dont pull Natyashastra with me. My article had nothing to do with natyashastra or any divine document but my common sense.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:Writing an article on Narthaki does not make any of us experts on all dance forms. We are all learners, and should bear that in mind before passing out random advice

Nothing will ever make us expert in anything. Expert is a relative term. Learner I am but i dont give out random advice. If i had ever seen u participate in rasika other than when someone started talking against kuchipudi, i wouldnt have called you out. You dont see me doing that with anyone else, do you? I am also biased since your personal message to me on facebook which is really unprofessional. You didnt want to post something on rasika for some reason and u wanted me to post it. Not cool man!

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:We understand that you do not like to be corrected and/or see anything debated or elucidated upon apart from BN, but really this is carrying it too much!

I love to be corrected. Ask devadasi. She and i have a long history and i learn a lot from her when she is not selling stuff. Everyone who seeks the truth loves being corrected. I like debates on everything. I asked to start a thread if u wanted me to elucidate on body movements on melattur link. You never did. True to form u only write when someone writes against kuchipudi. More involvement might be useful to everyone and held less against u.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:And we wonder how you have inherently assumed that we are all Telugus writing on Kuchipudi,

Great misunderstanding. I was providing an example. Not implying u are telugu or telugu people boast or telugu people are not great. Please read it again.

kuchipudivaibhavam wrote:Oh, and also, as already requested kindly desist from flaunting unwarranted opinions!

yeah, i am getting tired of moral brigading myself. No more moral brigading.