interesting links to watch

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 03 Jul 2010, 05:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odTAizNJ ... re=related

On the sub-sub-sub-sub-sub standard depiction of bharatanatyam in movies.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Jul 2010, 08:35

A demo on the various ways to dance to an Avartana of 7 beats (miSra cApu tALa in this instance, but could also be tiSra tripuTa tALa I guess):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqxYRyvLv3Q

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 06 Jul 2010, 03:56

@rshankar: I think Tishra Triputa is the same as Mishra Chapu. Chapu just means you dont count every akshara, the way you would normally put talam. Instead u just keep track of it by clapping (most practical instances where it is too fast to count every akshara and hence inconvenient).

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 06 Jul 2010, 03:59

A dance drama called Keraleeyam by Rema Srikant. I dont know if its the elephant or the beautiful costumes, i love it!

Esp the sri Chakra formation in the second video had me in goosebumps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Yd9wPRLr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzxMqw5- ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFbqzTM5 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shUeHtIA ... re=related

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 06 Jul 2010, 08:48

I'm not very well versed on the subject but isn't Misra Chapu outside the saptatala system and based on nadai? Misra Chapu is always in mishram. Tisra (laghu) Triputa can be in any of the nadais, including mishram.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 06 Jul 2010, 21:00

@ Umesh: Is that true that mishrachapu cannot be played in any other nadai?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drDVEftG8fc
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7929

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 06 Jul 2010, 23:03

Ksl, my post more of a question, as I mentioned I claim no expertise in this. I know TT is sometimes an alternative to Misra Chapu in sangeetham, but from a dance perspective, Misra Chapu is usually danced in mishra nadai, whereas TT's nadai is chatushram (at least the TT we are talking about), so logically speaking, you would expect it to be danced as such. Is it correct to treat a song as if it were in mishra nadai and call it TT? I really do not know. I would think the feel of the song would be different in each instance (take, for example, tishra nadai adi compared with chatushra nadai rupakam).

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 07 Jul 2010, 06:09

@ Umesh: I wasnt implying you were wrong. I know about this probably just as much as or less than you.

IMO, Mishra Chapu is not in any nadai. I actually dont know how to keep track of the tishra nadai mishra chapu in the video i posted. From what i know, i can only make out the nadai of a talam when it is performed in more than one speed. Like chatushra nadai aadi or tishra nadai aadi comes into existence when there are 4 or 3 subdivisions (respectively) of each akshara of the talam. So if in aadi taalam someone is singing in 1st speed where there is only one swara in each akshara, i cannot tell the nadai. But if in next speed he sings 2 swaras in each akshara you know its in chatushra nadai. I have never seen anyone sing 1.5 swaras in each akshara as that is hard to keep track of. So tishra nadai aadi is usually 3 swaras/kalams in each akshara.

By analogy, in the dance video above, i cannot tell what nadai it is in. Hence your question threw me off. I dont know what you mean when u say mishra chapu is in mishra nadai. because if u clap 3 times (3+2+2) or if u clap two times (3+4) either ways, i dont know how many akshara kalams each akshara is split into. All i know is i clap for 3 aksharas+2 aksharas+2aksharas.

Not sure if i am making myself clear.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 07 Jul 2010, 11:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrRXOIsdck

tiruppugazh kautuvam. I really enjoyed the choreography. I would like to point out that this is the way Vel is fought with unlike the way Priyadarshini GOvind uses it, like a trident in subramanya kautuvam. A vel is by principle of origin, thrown and not stabbed with at the enemy.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 07 Jul 2010, 18:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDycQsg__Ms - Anbin atchiyai, a piece on Jesus christ. Simple, yet impressive, choreo by the Dhananjayans (not very sure) and "aarpaatam illaadha" nattuvangam by Mrs.Radhika Shurajit..! Also seen in the video is avigna dance ensemble-fame Mrs.Deepa Narendra.. Wonder why the artistes are not wearing salangai..!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Jul 2010, 21:49

Can anyone identify the composition and the composer in this piece? I have not heard this 'tODayamangaLam'!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 10 Jul 2010, 04:01

can someone give me lyrics of this javali and tell me the ragam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVrteAB562w

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 10 Jul 2010, 04:46

its yera ra ra by dharmapuri subburaya iyer.. in khamas http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7698

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Jul 2010, 06:49

KSL/Madhan - did you notice that another student of Smt. Rema's has also danced to this jAvaLi in her arangETRam?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 10 Jul 2010, 08:55

thanks madhan. I actually also found the meaning here:http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7700
@ rshankar: yes i did notice that. I like the other girl a bit more but her audio was not as clear.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 10 Jul 2010, 10:00

Yeah.. i too liked the other artiste (Ms.Ruchi Anadkat) more..

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 18 Jul 2010, 10:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCFChfVm ... re=channel

marathi composition..by savitha shastry

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 20 Jul 2010, 03:55

@Umesh.... laghu in Triputa can be any jathi (tisra, chatusra, kanda, misra or sankeerna). And Tisra jathi Thriputa Tala is same as misra chapu tala.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 20 Jul 2010, 06:05

Ganesh, tishra laghu triputa is in chatushra nadai by default (as are all talams) and my issue here is with nadai, not the laghu of the talam. Though I see why practically they are sometimes interchanged, I can't see how chatushra nadai TT can be considered the same as MC. As I understand, the latter is a talam based on nadai (essentially, just maathras, not aksharams split into maathras). Yes, both talams work out to the same number of maathras (7x4=28), but I'm not even sure of this- what if you had more than 4 mishrams? By definition, couldn't you still call it MC, though it it would no longer fit into TT? Regardless, even when maathras are equal and you could technically gesture TT for MC or vice-versa, they are not grouped the same in each talam and could thus affect the way the song and dance are rendered.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 20 Jul 2010, 08:18

Out of the world. I cannot remember any other chaliye kunjan mo swati tirunal wanting to see after he sees this one. What is this percussion. Esp when she does the bee thing, he even accompanies that. This is dance music!!! the singer is equally wonderful in his modulations going with the sahityakalpana. Awesome!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRs_uhIq ... re=channel

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 20 Jul 2010, 23:43

@Umesh, it seems like you are confusing between maatras, and how many tala cycle in an avartana. Unit of time is not maatra but akshara. And there are 7 aksharas in thisra triputa and they are grouped as tha ki ta thaka dimi which is same as misra chapu. BTW, It is not just the number of aksharas; misra eka despite having 7 aksharas is not similar to misra chapu.

Sure.. tisra gati tistra thriputa would sound differently from misra chapu but chathusra gati (default) tisra thriputa would look same as misra chapu. I have not heard of nadai/gati for chapu taalas btw.

In the same way Chatusra jati triputa is same as adi tala. I'll also ask my music guru whether what I believe is correct.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 21 Jul 2010, 03:12

ganeshpv wrote:BTW, It is not just the number of aksharas; misra eka despite having 7 aksharas is not similar to misra chapu.

Actually, it is. It has also been used in place of TT or MC. My point was that maathras give you the total number of "pulses", if you will. Calculating units of time based on aksharas alone is usually not sufficient. But I completely understand what you and others are saying- if we consider both simply to be 7-akshara cycles, it works, but in actuality, there are 4 subdivisions per each aksharam in TT (chatushram). No argument here that both cannot be used interchangeably at times, but to say they are equivalent in all contexts is generalizing a bit too much I think. Take for example pieces such as Dikshitar's Brihaspate (in Atana, TT). Try counting it (dancing it, even!) in MC and it works out, but it isn't that lovely 3+4 feel you get from songs that are actually written in MC. It sounds right in TT with chatushra nadai, with the sahityam falling on appropriate stress points. The Bombay Sisters' version can be found here: http://www.musicindiaonline.com/album/1 ... a_Krithis/

Also, Adi is merely another name for chatushra laghu triputa, not another talam outside the suladi system as MC technically is.

I found this thread on the subject for any of those who are interested: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5099
Arun and VK have both made some excellent points.

I'm going to leave it here because I feel like I'm interrupting this wonderful link-sharing!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 21 Jul 2010, 07:56

@ Umesh: I would like to say what i feel towards all chapu talas, not necessarily mishra chapu. Being a dancer, i dont understand the threads inner beat/outer beat arguments. here us my take on the whole thing

1. They are not any 'talas' per say because they only manifest in one speed. The reason is evolutionary. I think singers found it inconvenient to count fingers in laghu and turn hands in drutam for fast compositions (2nd and third speeds). So they just keep the 'rhythm' and not the details of the tala by clapping. hence the name chapu. So triputa tishram in 3rd speed is mantained by keeping just the 1,4and 6th beat and hence mishrachapu. tishra rupakam is kept in third speed by clapping just at 1 and 3 and hence khanda chapu.

2. because these are already in 3rd speed, they cannot have nadais. Hence i dont agree that mishra chapu is in mishra nadai. I think chapu talas are in eka-nadai if u will because no one sings them in speeds higher than the already set high speed. Hence u would never know how many 'pulses' each aksharam is split into. hence u would never know what nadai its in.

3. having said that, i dont know how to interpret the youtube video i posted which claims tishra nadai mishra chapu. So, this might be limited knowledge. for me, the different manifestation of TT and MC from point of view of 'feeling' is just speedwise. its not convenient to put every aksharam of the talam in higher speeds where only the rhythm 1(23),4(5),6(7) in MC
1(2),1(23) in KC

is kept count of.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 21 Jul 2010, 07:58

on a different note, i found something called sabari sabdam..never heard of..so thought wil share..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7apiRMCxquI

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:08

interview of Dr. Jyotsna Jagannathan. Shes a doctor by education and a dancer by choice.
http://video.webindia123.com/new/interv ... m#comments

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 27 Jul 2010, 02:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5I2gEt6 ... re=related
aparna ramaswamy...vallis student...she dances sooooooooo much like valli! the chin up attitude, the bursts of smile, sharp unexpected tilts of head, the back and forth aramandi ..the only thing she didnt inherit is probably the waist movements.

smala · Post by **smala** » 27 Jul 2010, 07:19

ksl wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5I2gEt6 ... re=related
aparna ramaswamy...vallis student...she dances sooooooooo much like valli! the chin up attitude, the bursts of smile, sharp unexpected tilts of head, the back and forth aramandi ..the only thing she didnt inherit is probably the waist movements.

Really exciting to see Valli's student..Good one, ksl, thanks!

Her coquettish, lightly sensuous playful expressions with flashes of the piercing roudra Siva look, graceful hand-arm movements, the upper torso moving, as if an apsara dancing... with the Lord right there before her,....bring it all alive, which is what a performance should do....very Valli-like...lovely girl, trained by another lovely teacher.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 27 Jul 2010, 09:44

One of Valli's foremost disciples, Meenakshi Srinivasan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-_92V9j ... re=channel

smala · Post by **smala** » 27 Jul 2010, 11:13

Umesh wrote:One of Valli's foremost disciples, Meenakshi Srinivasan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-_92V9j ... re=channel

A graver version here. Elegant yet tenderly graceful even in her footwork, the hallmark of Alarmel Valli, yes, the stamp is hers. The pose as Ambal was Divine, picture perfect.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 27 Jul 2010, 21:00

I hear that she has been trained under Ms.Mallika Girish panicker also!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 28 Jul 2010, 00:04

@ SP: I prefer the 'graver' version.

@ Umesh: Thanks for the link. I saw a very poor vid of Ms. Meenakshi on the kutcheribuzz. This ones so much better. love the stage and the top angle of the camera with the red carpet!

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 28 Jul 2010, 02:24

Regarding the Aparna Ramaswamy video - liked it very much except for the knees to the front. Raises an interesting question - can something we overlook in a star like Alarmel Valli also be overlooked in an upcoming dancer? Do we chalk it up to "that's just the style" or should we expect more? I've noticed this is particularly the case with dancers who seem to be clones of their gurus (there was a Hindu article some years back about this). Thoughts?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 28 Jul 2010, 03:02

@kannagi99: I dont think anything should be overlooked in any artist, no matter what her stature. That being said, i dont think aparna will be as sought after as her guru because now there are plenty others in her generation that dance without knees pointing in the front. More competition leads to more scrutiny, dont u think? standards in todays dance scene are very different and much higher. Honestly if Valli were to debut now, I wonder how the Hindu would report on her

But again, there is a section of rasikas that dig for valli even now. So...i guess it depends on how many such rasikas exist.

I know what article are you referring to by Gowri ramanarayan. I thought to myself the writer would have looked at an artist like aparna when she wrote it. heres a link http://www.hinduonnet.com/folio/fo9812/98120060.htm

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 28 Jul 2010, 18:47

@ksl - I tend to agree that nothing should be overlooked regardless of an artist's stature. Thanks for the article link - that's the one I was thinking about. One thing I've wondered about is at what point does a dancer stop being a copy of the guru and break out into something else. It seems like it takes years of maturity for a dancer to come into her own and by then, she's too "old" to be part of the rat race.

Here's a link to a performance by Maria-Kiran - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJgjQqK3 ... re=related

In Attendance, Ashish Khokar dubbed her one of the best upcoming Bharatanatyam dancers in the world.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 29 Jul 2010, 02:00

Im not sure if someone posted it here already... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df3ta1KECMo netrandhi nerathile in huseni.. very good abhinayam.. i found it quite impressive!

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 29 Jul 2010, 03:37

@kannagi99:

about maria khan: best upcoming dancer in france might be a better title, dont u think? Her nritta is like yesteryear dancers (swaying hips in tattimettu, no symmetry, inconsistent and inadequate aramandi, a general nonchalance to conformity of adavus) which probably gets like 5/10 and her abhinaya ... she seems to be in pain all the time. someone tell her what 'potrum' means. definitely no punch.

If someone is worthier of that adjective, its this dancer. Its the same varnam. Look at the stage presence, aramandi, natyarambham, cleanliness of technique and abhinayam. There is NO competition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBeRzeo59E

about breaking apart from being a copy of your guru: You would never be a copy of your guru to begin with. If you dont hvae individuality from day 1 and resort to exactly doing what is told, u will never have it. its an artistic necessity to have a mind of your own. Its called medha in the 10 essentials of a dancer in abhinaya darpana. if u are going to copy ur guru, i might as well watch your guru.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 29 Jul 2010, 03:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4b ... dium#t=197
this is so interesting. This is ranee ramaswamy, the mother of aparna ramaswamy of post # 126. Both of them learnt from valli. what a contrast in terms of dancing like valli!!!! although this is a abhinaya piece, i dont see valli when i see her.

smala · Post by **smala** » 29 Jul 2010, 10:40

ksl wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4b ... dium#t=197
this is so interesting. This is ranee ramaswamy, the mother of aparna ramaswamy of post # 126. Both of them learnt from valli. what a contrast in terms of dancing like valli!!!! although this is a abhinaya piece, i dont see valli when i see her.

ksl :

The video does not load up but with the search on ranee ramaswamy several videos came up, some where she dances along with Aparna and some with her dance group, somewhere in the U.S.

This one is has both Aparna and Ranee speaking in between, quite interesting. Very nice stage view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eclm1u5gKkM

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 29 Jul 2010, 18:34

@ksl - saw the video you linked on youtube. Maybe the mother's individual stamp was already in place when she started learning from Valli. Video is very slick don't you think?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 30 Jul 2010, 02:33

it was quite unnecessary an expense for abhinaya and level of abhinaya presented, dont u think?

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 30 Jul 2010, 18:45

To be honest, I was so distracted by all the camera slickness that I didn't really focus on the performance!

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 31 Jul 2010, 12:22

Quite a famous one on youtube.. Kaliyuga varadan by ms.narthaki nataraj http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHW3LpXD4I

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 02 Aug 2010, 07:08

Balasaraswatis videos of nritta and abhinaya and a clip of gowri ammals abhinaya at the book launch of 'Balasaraswati: Her art and life' Here is my response to the videos.

I dnt understand what the hype is all about. I dont like her dancing at all and dont think it has any sort of greatness in it. On the contrary, she interprets nilada bavuli as blue earrings. dont know what to say. Gowri ammal looks much more interesting at least in her abhinaya.

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 02 Aug 2010, 18:40

madhan wrote:Quite a famous one on youtube.. Kaliyuga varadan by ms.narthaki nataraj http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHW3LpXD4I

Hmm. Wish more effort could be made in the nrtta portions. See for example, the part around 3:30. Is this really the legacy of Kittappa Pillai?

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 02 Aug 2010, 20:03

ksl wrote:Balasaraswatis videos of nritta and abhinaya and a clip of gowri ammals abhinaya at the book launch of 'Balasaraswati: Her art and life' Here is my response to the videos.

I dnt understand what the hype is all about. I dont like her dancing at all and dont think it has any sort of greatness in it. On the contrary, she interprets nilada bavuli as blue earrings. dont know what to say. Gowri ammal looks much more interesting at least in her abhinaya.

@ksl - can you provide a link to the video? Tks.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 02 Aug 2010, 22:08

oops! here you go:
http://asiasociety.org/video/arts-cultu ... e-complete

kannagi99 · Post by **kannagi99** » 03 Aug 2010, 01:51

@ ksl - blasphemous! How dare you criticize someone so great :devil: Just kidding... Your post raises an interesting point, particularly when it comes to senior dancers and the great dancers of the past. I think we are conditioned to unthinkingly accept the greatness and wonderfulness (is that a word?) of certain dancers. I myself have gone to see performances of senior dancers and the whole time, I keep thinking to myself that I have to like the performance because if I don't - clearly the fault lies with me and my inability to appreciate such greatness. One particular performance of a senior dancer, almost every other moment, some ardent fans in the audience were jumping to their feet in ecstasy and clapping. I kept thinking what the h%^$ am I missing here. I was enjoying the performance but come on, all of this seemed a bit overboard.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 03 Aug 2010, 02:34

Here is my article in narthaki which touched on the greatness of so called great artists.
http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art274.html
Believe it, I was asked to write an essay on contribution of Balasaraswati to Indian dance in my dance exams and i believed every word of what i wrote her positive contribution was. No one asked me to rate her performance in the exam thankfully. As someone called Rachna (?) in the end of that video diplomatically put it, "although no one uses that technique now a days, no one can deny her contribution to the art. "
Sunil Kothari (i think it is him in that video with the comment in a heavy indian accent) says "its not about the dance because now we see dancers with a lot better technique, but it was about her music which sometimes overwhelmed the atmosphere even before she danced"
Anita Ratnam is the only one that talks of her dance. On narthaki she says, "she once performed 45 minutes of Krishna Ni begane through which it was pin drop silence and she watched her with awe" I would like to see that tape.
I had a conversation with someone earlier in the Summer who said she was probably a very good vocalist and a moderate dancer. It is usually said it is her ability to connect with ragabhava of music a lot more and that made her a great dancer. I said, "only because padma subramaniam is a great dancer and a mediocre singer, would music people tout her as a great singer because she can connect to the sahityabhavam a lot more than an average musician?"
I dont think the musicians touted her as a great music artist either because a lot of them had objections to her being awarded the sangeetha kalanidhi. So, for some reason she treaded this intermediate path together with touted argument that this is "real bharatanatyam" and needs no change and that she was the last precious link to devadasis . I disagree. Its hopeless in technique and contrary to all the grandiose arguments her grandson makes, there is a necessity of technique in arts. Watch his performance and make up your own mind. I sat through 2 hours of it once

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 03 Aug 2010, 03:58

kannagi99 wrote: Hmm. Wish more effort could be made in the nrtta portions. See for example, the part around 3:30. Is this really the legacy of Kittappa Pillai?

Even Ms.Rupa Srikanth in her review on Ms.Narthaki nataraj says "It was Narthakiâ€™s expressive strength that won her audience over.The nritta was undemanding, yet it was not well-finished. The dancer should work on improving her fitness and the clarity of the steps. She should work on becoming an all-rounder. " But both the video and the review are quite old.. She has probably improved now..!

smala · Post by **smala** » 03 Aug 2010, 06:10

There are a few dances (tube) to Bho Sambho but this I found very fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sitabharata ... 4DmP94-Epk

An artist with a 'pure Indian soul' as someone put it. Watch the beauty of her depiction here. (even with a not so great video/sound)

http://www.youtube.com/user/sitabharata ... JQbnJgSHzU

a snippet here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLRbqL2 ... =recentlik